Windows 7 Only Has One Year of Security Patches Left

[Carlos]

It was mostly a joke.  But I too have been working with computers since 1981, and I certainly do believe that MacOS is more modern in both the core and the UI.  The UI is subjective of course.  That the core is more secure in in MacOS is just simply well proven.  IBM and several other major companies have proven that Macs reduce TCO, support burden, and turnover.  Those again are just well-proven numbers.  Anecdotally, I see so many ten year old Macs that are still viable machines, with current security updates and all.

 

 

[Bill Joyce]

I was never an IT guy, but I do know home users are not the same as those working for large organizations. The needs are different and the many of the home user applications are the ones that have no good replacement available.  Macs are fine, I just think they are that not as advanced and wonderful as those who push them seem to think.  Having helped many with Macs as I also help others with Windows, I am not seeing that massive a difference and the price difference for home users is significant. 

My oldest PC was built in 2003, when it ran Windows Vista, and runs Windows 10 today. 

[k4rs]

35 minutes ago, Bill Joyce said:

My oldest PC was built in 2003, when it ran Windows Vista, and runs Windows 10 today. 

Are you sure about that date Bill?  I don't recall Vista being available until 2007.  I built the oldest computer that I currently have in 2012.  Back then it dual booted Linux and Windows 7.  Over the years I have tried Windows 8 / 8.1 and 10 on it.  Even though it runs the newer operating systems well, today it still runs Linux and Windows 7 (I do not like the UI in Windows 8.x and do not trust Microsoft with all the telemetry in Windows 10).

My newest computer that I just built runs Linux and Windows 10 version 1809  simply because the new hardware needs the support of the latest OS.  Even if I could shoehorn Win 7 onto it, with only a year until end of life, that would not be worth the effort.

This post was written on a Chromebook upgraded to a full version of Debian Linux. 

Safe Travels...

[chirakawa]

History of Windows

[Carlos]

I eliminated 100% of my family and friends tech support by telling them to start switching to Macs.  Now visits no longer include "can you fix my Windows" and instead they say things like "thanks for recommending something that always works."

[RV_]

8 hours ago, Carlos said:

"thanks for recommending something that always works." 

Carlos,

No computer always works:

Nov 2018: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/11/13/apple-admits-13-inch-macbook-pro-may-lose-your-data/#6fba57122848

Feb 2018: macOS May Lose Data Due to APFS Filesystem Bug

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/11/13/apple-admits-13-inch-macbook-pro-may-lose-your-data/#6fba57122848

Dec. 2017 Apple's had a shockingly bad week of software problems:

https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/2/16727238/apple-macos-ios-software-problems-updates

Go here and read around about all those computers that always work:

https://www.bing.com/search?q=osx+crashes&pc=MOZI&form=MOZTSB

All Mac crashes and freezes were imaginary right? LOL. I don't get freezes on my Windows units.

You seem to misunderstand when I asked if you would like to join the topic with helpful suggestions for Windows users. Instead of Hijack it with fables of the unicorns and rainbows that blow from Mac computer cooling fans.

Notice the bad apple patches and lost data recently? Just visit Apple Mac support pages. All those folks' Macs failed to always work.

 

[chuckbear]

On 1/17/2019 at 11:07 AM, Carlos said:

I've never said anything like that, and it's rather unfair for you to mis-characterize me that way.

If you're going to quote me, use the entire quote. Again, what I said was, "Our friend Carlos is typical of the tech industry. If you don't get the latest and greatest and the most expensive, life as you know it will come to an end. I DON"T FALL FOR IT." And I stand by it. Chuck

[chuckbear]

Good god, Windows 7 is not at the end of its life. Microsoft will simply stop sending out those updates that are breaking everyone's computers so you will be better off. Windows 7 will continue to work for you for a very long time if you choose to continue using it. Chuck

[Bill Joyce]

16 hours ago, k4rs said:

Are you sure about that date Bill?  I don't recall Vista being available until 2007.  I built the oldest computer that I currently have in 2012.  Back then it dual booted Linux and Windows 7.  Over the years I have tried Windows 8 / 8.1 and 10 on it.  Even though it runs the newer operating systems well, today it still runs Linux and Windows 7 (I do not like the UI in Windows 8.x and do not trust Microsoft with all the telemetry in Windows 10).

My newest computer that I just built runs Linux and Windows 10 version 1809  simply because the new hardware needs the support of the latest OS.  Even if I could shoehorn Win 7 onto it, with only a year until end of life, that would not be worth the effort.

This post was written on a Chromebook upgraded to a full version of Debian Linux. 

Safe Travels...

You are right.  It came with XP, but has run Vista, 7, 8, 8.1 and now 10 fine.  It has been a fine Acer laptop that I now use for old programs that only work well on 32-bit Windows.  

[Sehc]

Yes Carlos  Linux is used on many if not the majority of servers. Most of us average laptop or desk top users are well served by Microsoft or Maybe Apple.

[Carlos]

6 hours ago, RV_ said:

No computer always works:

LOL.  On a mass scale, correct.  And yet on the scale of the context I spoke of, I was also correct.  You took "my friends' computers never crash" and turned it into "no Macs ever crash."  Right now I have a problem with Chrome causing an occasional KP that I need to fix, on my own machine.  Nothing is perfect.  It's just that after 35 years of supporting technology, you can very easily see the pattern of what breaks 5x more often.

 

[RV_]

LMAO,

No you turned it into Macs always work. Overgeneralizations are always wrong, including this one!

Got a source for your five times more often datum? On the scale I speak of, I have no Windows 10 failures on my 4 desktops and 3 Windows 10 tablets. only an App or two that failed to open when new apps like Sling TV, which has occasional issues on my TV as well.. My programs are pretty much bulletproof. When you say KP are you referring to a .kp file?

 

[k4rs]

I have been thinking about how I want to proceed once Windows 7 reaches EOL.   As someone else mentioned, Windows 7 will not magically stop working, it just will not receive security updates.   Since almost all of my computing is done with Linux, I could disable Internet access and safely continue using Windows 7 for those programs that only run under Windows.  This plan will work with most of my current hardware, but what happens when I need to upgrade?  I currently have 2 computers (1 desktop and 1 laptop) that have new hardware that is not supported on Windows 7.

The second option is to switch to Windows 8.1 which will be supported until 2023.  To me, this seems like kicking the can down the road and eventually I will be forced to use Windows 10.   The third option is to switch to Windows 10 immediately.

Fortunately I still have a year to decide.  My newest computer which is used primarily used for video editing will be my test case.  As I have previously stated, I do NOT trust Microsoft and will not have ANY personal info on the Windows 10 machine.  I have turned off all the telemetry that I can, but recent reports indicate that Windows 10 will still phone home regardless of settings.

The other issue with Windows 10 is buggy updates.  As the go-to computer repair guy in my RV park, I see lots of problems caused by bad updates and drivers.  A couple have been real showstoppers, completely disabling the computer.  I have configured my Windows 10 computer to skip all feature updates and defer security updates.

No matter how things shake out, I know that I will be able to find a workable solution for myself.  The people I am really concerned about are the average users who do not have the skills, experience, and tools to fix the pile of dung that Microshaft has foisted upon them.  My crystal ball shows that I will be staying busy with computer repairs for a long time to come.

Safe Travels...

[Carlos]

22 hours ago, RV_ said:

No you turned it into Macs always work.

I reported what friends and family literally say to me.  I made no claims myself.

22 hours ago, RV_ said:

Got a source for your five times more often datum?

IBM's report on deploying Macs to much of their workforce in one public source.  Their number is actually more than 5x, because it's about what I see with my customers who have switched.  

 

Previn noted that “Every Mac that we buy is making and saving IBM money,” and that “A Mac still has value three or four years down the road.” An example of the added value of using Macs versus PCs is the amount of support required. IBM has just 24 help desk staff that are supporting around 130,000 Mac and iOS devices deployed throughout the company. That’s just one support member for 5,375 employees, but Previn boasts that’s because only approximately 5% of Mac users request support compared to around 40% of its PC using employees.

22 hours ago, RV_ said:

When you say KP are you referring to a .kp file?

Kernel Panic.

 

[RV_]

OK guys,

(pause while I change feet in my mouth.)

Roger, I agree with you when you said this:

"No matter how things shake out, I know that I will be able to find a workable solution for myself.  The people I am really concerned about are the average users who do not have the skills, experience, and tools to fix the pile of dung that Microshaft has foisted upon them.  My crystal ball shows that I will be staying busy with computer repairs for a long time to come"

Windows 10 started out great until they laid off a bunch of the update crews and put the update team under new management in the 2016-2018 reorganizations as criticized in the article below. 

But I will also land on my feet as I can do the home maintenance for our phones, tablets and computers. I do seem to be the only one that likes phones with Mods. I will keep my touch systems and even reactivate my Windows Lumia 735 phones.

Now I have tried open source like Libre Office which I'd like if it didn't have some difficulty on a Windows touch device. My TV Tuner also needs configuration and according to reviews is still iffy not ready for prime time http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/support/support_linux.html When I search for Linux touch enablement I get results like these https://www.bing.com/search?q=Linux+on+touch+screen+systems&pc=MOZI&form=MOZLBR where I already have to be a Linux guru to even consider it. In other words Linux on touch hardware may never run as smooth as Windows. Same with Open source everything. I know it can be done in a rudimentary way. I'd be ready in a minute if I could just move to Linux without learning the current crop of variants. I'm set now again with Windows in that I make monthly images before they release the next updates. I see lots of Android, Apple, and Windows touch devices - phones/tablets. But Apple and their users do not have touch desktops or tablets that run MacOS and will always claim they don't need it. My view is going back to just keyboard and voice control is a step backward. Those with Windows touch systems know we don't use touch all the time. I save my pics, videos and docs as just files in addition to images. We both got free Apple phones when we found out that our Windows phones were being phased out in late 2016. So we switched to Credo Mobile who use Verizon towers and they offered free iPhone 6 just before they started selling the iPhone 7.  We returned them the day after receiving them and had Apple remove our IDs. I did not want iTunes on my systems or any Apple bloatware program written for Windows. It turned out that Apple cannot transfer my music mp3s without putting iTunes on my computer. My goodness, I can just connect any other system to my desktop and transfer files directly without any iTunes or equivalent. Even easier I can just load up a 128GB micro SD card and install it or transfer it. No Micro SD Cards on iPhones. I also think that MS is making a big mistake, their updates have screwed the users as much as any Apple bad patch or debut MacOS that wiped data . Even Apple folks wait for a new version or patches to deploy before taking them themselves like Windows users now do, even me. Microsoft is  is focusing on future business instead of taking care of today's business and challenges. That is a big mistake and Apple looks poised to take advantage of that if they avoid the past mistakes. And they would have to innovate like when Jobs was there and even Apple users know they are losing market share to Android in phones and to Windows for tablets. :

Microsoft’s Overhaul of Windows 10 Update Process – Attempt No. 3958887

Excerpt:

"Understanding the Windows ecosystem is nothing less than a headache. What is Windows 10 “Redstone“; the cumulative update; the feature update; the semi-annual channel; the express update; the release branch; the Fast Ring; the Skip Ahead – it’s an endless lexicon of confusing terms and their ever-changing explanations.

Being a software giant is no easy feat and with Microsoft’s decision to leave the older days behind for a modern-day Windows as a Service (WaaS) model, the company has had to not only think about its end users but also governments and enterprises who depend on the company’s desktop operating system, and then its OEM partners who help it distribute the OS.

Since the introduction of Windows 10 over 3 years ago, the Redmond software maker has been trying to make sense of how to streamline its process of sending updates since it will no longer release a new OS version that would require its own keys. If you have Windows 10, you will always be able to upgrade to the latest version of the OS as long as your hardware can support it.

Now, the company has announced yet another change to this end. Starting from February 2019, Microsoft will no longer offer with what’s known as “delta updates” and completely focus on smaller-sized optimized updates that are known as “express updates.” Here’s what this actually means.

Windows 10 will now focus on full and express updates; no more “delta updates” starting from 2019

Microsoft has announced doing away with delta updates since express updates are like a modern version of it. Microsoft’s Mike Benson explains the three updates:"

Click on this link if you want to see the new titles. : July 2018 Reorg??

I have MS Office 2010 for all my systems and will need to change to Office 365 if Libre Office doesn't fix the aggravations with my touch systems. When I grab the center of the screen and move down it highlights text instead of scrolling. And other aggravations I am not going through when they work fine with Windows.

 

Thanks Carlos,

Thanks for those 2015-2018 IBM/Apple centric quotes despite the steady state flat chart of IBM's Apple experiment in 2018. I stand corrected in that I was totally unaware of the actual sale of several  hundred thousand Apple systems to IBM. If you have the totals and source I'd be receptive. Both IBM and Microsoft as well as Apple are looking to cloud based computing and that may be the way we end up going. But I am staying Windows until I see a better fit for me. Not you or anyone else but for me. But Microsoft is sucking for home users right now. If the changes to updates to micro updates works then it may get better. But after buying the Windows phones which we really liked, and having Microsoft drop their phones and leaving our phones orphaned, I don't trust Microsoft anymore.

Here are the combined stats for desktops, laptops, phones, tablets etc.

Operating System Market Share Worldwide - December 2018 Source: Market shares Press Releases FAQ About Feedback Statcounter Global Stats Desktop Operating System Market Share Worldwide Desktop Operating System Market Share Worldwide - December 2018 Windows 76.24%   OS X 12.65%   Unknown 7.85%   Linux 1.69%   Chrome OS 1.56%   FreeBSD 0%   Dec 2017 - Dec 2018 Lots to parse. When all is said and done, Roger will likely remain Linux and Windows capable and You Carlos will likely remain Apple, and I will definitely remain Windows/Android
Windows	37.43%
Android	36.49%
iOS	13.16%
OS X	6.22%
Unknown	4.01%
Linux	0.85%

[Vladimir]

Hmmm......I just upgraded two of my machines from Windows 2000 to XP!!!  My everyday machines are all Windows 7. I just bought a "new" one for $300 that came with Windows 7.

My wife has a 12 year old IMAC and a two month MacBook Air.

All said, the differences between a Mac and a Windows machine are pretty minimal these days for most users. So minimal that the 12 year old IMAC has more issues with upgraded MIcrosoft software than the other machines. In fact, just yesterday Microsoft said forget it your operating system software is out of date.

I have probably close to several thousand dollars in hobby software that runs on XP and 7, but not 10. You really think I am going to spend all that money for a hobby just to have the latest operating system???

I am shifting my internet browsing to a IPAD. It works better than a computer for in most connected applications. I will keep the computers running XP and Windows 7 for as long as I can which pretty much should be another couple of decades!!  

I remember using a computer before the internet in 1973!!! It worked great for the job at hand.

Really, you don't need ONE machine to do everything. You really are better off having a computer, a tablet, chromebook, and a phone and take advantage of the capabilities of each. 

 

[Carlos]

1 hour ago, Vladimir said:

You really are better off having a computer, a tablet, chromebook, and a phone and take advantage of the capabilities of each. 

I have a desktop with two 27" UHD displays, a tiny laptop, and iPad, and phone.  My life is about maximizing personal time through productivity gains.  So I'm always looking at what will save time and money.  Larger screens make work far faster, but you can't always have them with you.

We just sold our Chromebook touchscreen though.  Neither of us really used it much.  Great machine, good OS, but just...didn't need it.  There's very little reason to use a touchscreen when you have a much faster typing devices right there.  We also sold our Surface2, for the same reason.  Win10 and touch work great, but we found that keyboards and mice are much faster and more intuitive.

I work on and support every OS, and they each have their place.

[RV_]

Carlos,

Being retired I use my 27" AIO for anything more than a quick post. For tablets, I started out with The Galaxy Tab 10.1 in 2011, but at that time there were no Word apps for Android and to this day I don't like working with their files. I used a test bed Toshiba laptop in 2011- 2012 to test out the Windows 8 Developer editions before their Oct 2012 retail release. Back then my wife and I had desktop towers with 23 inch 1080p monitors and I5 as well as AMD processors, a Netbook I modified for more RAM, a Toshiba 15" laptop that had only 4GB of RAM and ran very slowly with the Vista and its hard drive. I upped it to 8GB RAM and put in a small Crucial SSD, is screamed. But I wanted a tablet that ran Windows programs. Android uses Google Apps and their complete lack of privacy bothered me. I bought the Surface RT 1 month used for half price with transferable warranty in January2013 and they had no way to do email unless you did Outlook web mail. The device was well made and the screen was top notch, but it only had a simulated desktop for lite versions of Word and Excel, no Outlook. I sold it before the month was out and HP had a sale on their Envy x2 which for the time was fairly snappy feeling. It was a tablet ultrabook and had all the ports but laptop 1080X800 or some such resolution. My wife had the Lenovo Lynx both with first gen Atom dual core Z2600 series SoCs (sloooow compared to now, fast for then) I found a deal on the Dell Venue 11 Pro with everything, the new quad core very fast Z3770 SoC and full HD 1080p. We still have it and my wife uses it for travel. I then bought our first Surface i5/128GB/4GB Pro 3 factory refurbished with full warranty, and later a Pro4 factory refurbished i7/256GB/8GB with full one year warranty as well. I always had a backup computer, usually our oldest one, but when Microsoft erased my hard drive during a remote session with MS techs (my bad, I only had a one year old image, nothing newer, and did not make a new one, or file backups before they were to only fix an app that was not working. I needed a full size backup system, so I got a very nice AMD quad core 3.5 gHz HP tower refurbed and a 27" Acer AMD A8 free sync quad HD glare free monitor (https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0ZX8G73176&Description=Acer 27"&cm_re=Acer_27"-_-24-009-969-_-Product) to match my quad HD Main system. It is now my spare main system.

I have type-covers for both Surface pros but seldom use them. With them they can replace any laptop at a desk but are a bit less stable to useless in my lap. I never used my laptops back before Surface and Windows hybrids on my lap - too hot. I use the Windows tablets for my Home theater companions when we both can't remember an actor's name or want to look up a fact about something I'm watching as well as just for the Sling TV Blue guides and the Broadcast TV guides. I have a four way commercial grade powered distribution amp and a roof top antenna for 22 channels locally, as well as Amazon Prime, Netflix, Sling TV Blue, Hulu with HBO, Playon lifetime license (https://www.playon.tv/) for the free 7 day DVR and downloads permanently free to my hard drives.

So my tablets are travel laptops which I am about to use for my Colorado Springs trip, and home theater convenience.

We also have two Fire HDX 7" 64GB tablets with better than full HD, one Fire HDX 8.9" tablet, one 2016 8" Fire Tablet, and one 2018 10" new Fire tablet with Show mode dock we use in the kitchen that makes it an Echo Show but $100 dollars cheaper than the show when the tablet was on sale for $99 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BNXZ4CC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

We got all but the new Fire tablets for less than $50 for the HDXs with cases and two with Otterboxes, I keep the 8.9" for reading bedside and for Amazon music at night as it is still supported and has Alexa. We have one next to newest model Kindle Paperwhite we don't use at all. There are Echodots for Alexa in each public room

I don't like using my phone for anything but calls and texts, and for up to 50" diagonal viewing with the projector Moto Z projector mod. We have 2 Bose Mini SoundLinks, a Soundlink III, and Oontz Angle Ultra for phones and echo use. My cataract surgery made me dependent on reading glasses but gave me back my 2' to infinity vision like a 20 year old with 20-20.

This pic shows the 2720 and both Surface Pro units the Pro 4 on the desk turned off, and the Pro 3 is on the tablet holder booted up. The drive dock next to the 4GB WD Elements external drive next to a pile of storage 1 and 2TB drives. When I use the HDMI in I can't use the computer as it is then a quad HD TV. So I can use a tablet, like the Pro 3 turned on in the stand. The one on the desk is the Pro 4 and type-cover. I have a Bose Companion III 2.1 system with the sub under the desk. The two white objects behind my coffee cup are my new Linksys Velop mesh network whole house WiFi routers. Under the tablet are my drive dock with a drive in it, the Echo dot is on the right edge of the desk.

 

Below and behind me in my office is the 27" spare tower (tower under slide out kb mouse drawer) IT has no speakers so it has one of my Bose Soundlink minis which gives great sound.

Then there is a Voyo mini PC in the spare bedroom hooked up to a retro TV with flat screen in it. My wife's office is a nook in the hall.