Taxation w/o representation

[RV_]

Bob,

I understand. As military from CT and assigned to LA I did not have to change over my license, tags, etc. But I was also assigned to San Antonio three times at Lackland AFB, and in between Louisiana, Colorado, Germany. We went from 10 years stationed in Louisiana to 7 years in Germany. The entire time in Germany I had to pay state income tax to LA. I returned to Lackland AFB, TX for my one year retirement tour and changed my residency as soon as we landed. So when we were relieved of duty in 1997, we moved into our HitchHiker fiver and we towed it with our Ram 1ton diesel dually, which we already had. So we became Texans for the second time in our lives. Then we lost our military exemptions and hated worrying about the topic in this thread. I did, and will, avoid paying every tax and fee I can legally. To know it took a lot of research. Today a few minutes online and maybe a phone call or two with the appropriate tax, DMV, people etc.

Just remember that interpretation can vary. I try to get an email/fax that outlines the applicable regs etc. For the state and local jurisdictions when we plan one as a stop.

We're moving to Colorado and they have high costs for registrations and property taxes. But we get a lot of laws that we endorse like legalized assisted suicide, and legal cannabis for recreational and pain. I quit smoking three packs a day and drinking alcohol, over eight years ago. But I have no problem mixing cannabinoids to get the perfect compound in an edible so I can stop taking an NSAID (Naproxen or Alleve) for what little lumbar and cervical pain remains. NSAIDs thin my blood which I don't need. I have declined or torn up the many opioid prescriptions the docs tried to foist on me over the last 30 years or so. I've had pain but opioids

How is this on topic? I'm happy to pay the taxes and registrations for the many healthy and citizen friendly laws and regulations. They even liberally allow local municipal broadband networks. In the areas like Rangely and Meeker the county pays for the fiber installation and currently charge $70 a month for synchronous 1GB speeds. However the cities are as bad as the rest with territorial monopolies and zero competition. But then again, we are free to choose. Man did it take a bunch of research from here. Checking into tax history on houses, costs for humidifiers and solar for our PowerWalls and Model 3.

So do what feels right for you. I really liked my military exemptions when active duty. If the locale is worth the price of admission I pay it gladly. If I try to slip by, and I have at least once, and get caught, then I pay the price or fine or move or all three!

Safe travels!

 

[Lance A Lott]

3 hours ago, docj said:

I don't know how the latter part of this sentence could be enforceable particularly with respect to RV parks where people own the sites they occupy.  

I don't know of a park in Vermont where you own the site, of course as my wife points out I don't know everything. But I did know people who kept their camper at the same campground for years. They used to move it but gave up as they wanted a porch. The town listers came every year and made note of locations, registration and permanent structures. The campground was only open May to October ish.

[Barbaraok]

4 hours ago, Twotoes said:

If his fifth wheel is parked and not moved at all he is not using any services, not using the roads etc and shouldn’t have to registered it at all anywhere. If I own a farm and only drive my tractor on my farm land and never on the highway should I have to registered it?  

Our PM has wheels, but it is stationery, registered in AZ as personal property and we pay taxes (~$100 ) each year.   If the 5er doesn’t move, but has Oregon plates, he’s paying taxes to Oregon, correct?   Since it is AZ, should be paying to AZ.

 

[Kirk W]

9 hours ago, Lance A Lott said:

The town listers came every year and made note of locations, registration and permanent structures.

I suspect that would be the tax appraisal office employees and I imagine that then means that someone got a tax bill for each unit parked there. When we have spent time in that part of the country it does seem that most parks are used primarily by people who place an RV in one spot and leave it there pretty much permanently. 

[packnrat]

at first i thought this was about ca and there unfair system.

but yes most states do want your moneys. even though they are not eligible for any of it.

best to keep moving about.

but seeing as ca took other states to court to get any and all reg info. just for tax reasons. best watch your six.

the local towns, citys, countys. patroks do tickets, while the judges rubber stamp them. just for the added income.

states do a tax scam to get more moneys.

like getting our sales taxes, and fed tax dollars are not enougth.

so yes read up....if you can find the tax laws for that state.

[whj469]

Why would an RV park have to do the tax collector's work? I know two people who own RV parks and I will ask them but I, knowing those people, don't think that they would do the tax collector's work? One of the RV parks is in MI where they have a state income tax and the other is in Texas and we don't have state income tax so I can't imagine the tax collector asking?

[Barbaraok]

It would be in the park's interest to provide requested information.  After all, they do collect it as a matter of course so that they know how many people they have each day and where they are parked.  For instance, the park wants to be able to accurately report number of people in the park in the summer so that trash costs can be reduced for the months that there are fewer people in the park.  In addition, parks have to be able to show their mix of transient versus continuous occupied (at least in AZ) in order to keep their zoning status and not become a 'mobile home park' and not a 'campground' zoning.  

All governing entities need funding.  How they go about it may be different, but it isn't a plot to get anyone, nor is anyone required to visit a place that they disagree with how the funding is done.   I am more than happy to pay our personal property tax in Arizona so that we can enjoy our winter stays and still enjoy our summer sojourns throughout the rest of the country.   The EMS response alone in Mesa (which we have witnessed respond to neighbors) is worth more than what we pay and we have never used it!  

[Kirk W]

7 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

All governing entities need funding.  How they go about it may be different, but it isn't a plot to get anyone,

👍

[jc2]

21 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

It would be in the park's interest to provide requested information.  After all, they do collect it as a matter of course so that they know how many people they have each day and where they are parked.  For instance, the park wants to be able to accurately report number of people in the park in the summer so that trash costs can be reduced for the months that there are fewer people in the park.  In addition, parks have to be able to show their mix of transient versus continuous occupied (at least in AZ) in order to keep their zoning status and not become a 'mobile home park' and not a 'campground' zoning.  

All governing entities need funding.  How they go about it may be different, but it isn't a plot to get anyone, nor is anyone required to visit a place that they disagree with how the funding is done.   I am more than happy to pay our personal property tax in Arizona so that we can enjoy our winter stays and still enjoy our summer sojourns throughout the rest of the country.   The EMS response alone in Mesa (which we have witnessed respond to neighbors) is worth more than what we pay and we have never used it!  

I agree also. 

[Twotoes]

I bought a Harley Davidson in CA, paid the sales tax and registration fees for several years. When I went full time I gave it to my son who lives in Omaha NE. He registered it in NE and paid the registration fees for several years.  A couple of years ago he gave it back to me after removing the NE plates. It has been sitting In a friends garage in ID for 3 years. It does not go on the road and is just parked there. It has never been registered in ID and should not have to since it is not driven, only stored. Why should someone who owns a 5th wheel that is just parked, never driven on the road, have to pay registration tax on it?

[Barbaraok]

TwoToes, you are asking why a DWELLING is taxed when an unused Harley isn't?   Is a vacant house taxed even though no one is living there?  The person is paying rental fee to an RV park for the lot (or has purchased the lot) and thus will be taxed accordingly.  If they don't want to be taxed as a DWELLING then they need to get the rig on the road for part of the year.   It really is quite simple once you remember that you are talking about a DWELLING and not a bike to ride down the road.   

[Kirk W]

9 hours ago, Twotoes said:

Why should someone who owns a 5th wheel that is just parked, never driven on the road, have to pay registration tax on it?

The answer is that when you choose to spend time in a state or to leave your RV in that state you have in practice agreed to abide by the laws of that state. 

You are asking questions about laws in AZ, not about what the majority of this forum think would be fair. Even if you were to convince everyone here that you are right, it would not change AZ law. As a friend who was a judge once pointed out to me, the word "fair" is not to be found in any law anywhere. 

[FL-JOE]

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 7:04 PM, Kirk W said:

Most RV parks require that all RVs in the park have current registration. Probably has some connection to the regulations that they must comply with. 

It may not have anything to do with a parks rules.  If it is a rent park then you probably have to keep valid registration on it, even a double wide in some states (plate/sticker for each half).  It you own the lot in the park your unit is sitting on then maybe the registration can lapse but you will be paying property tax on it anyway.

[FL-JOE]

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 4:42 PM, Big5er said:

According to what Kirk posted if you are in AZ for more than 7 months they expect you to pay for the roads and other infrastructure you are using by paying the taxes for it. They let you use it for free for 7 months, how can you possibly justify complaining about paying for what you are using after that? Sounds more than reasonable to me.

I don't think he said his buddy was complaining about it, he only said what Arizona was doing and "they were sorting it out".  I think most states try to grab as much of everyone's tax dollars as they can.  Florida probably doesn't pay that much attention to what plates are on what RV for how long due to all the tourist tax exists down here.  

[bobsallyh]

Barbarok, hold on a minute! A friend of mine has a fiver on a rented space in a 55 plus RV park in the Foothills area of Yuma. It has current Wisconsin tags on it and has had for the seven years that he has been in the park. It never moves, pays no taxes, only the yearly site rental at the park. And since it is on seasonal lot rental there is no tax on the rental fee. Here, there is no sales tax on monthly's or seasonal, only daily's and weekly's. Tour the parks in this area and this is a common occurrence. It also includes Canadian owned rigs. Park model owners do pay a county tax on their unit as they are considered stationary.

[richfaa]

As FL-Joe   says Florida does not much care what plates are on your car, truck RV because of the thousands of snow birds and the revenue they bring in. We  have a domicile in Ohio and  we own a lot in a HOA RV community here in Florida so we are Florida residents.We have Ohio Plates on all our vehicles and have been a resident of Florida for many years for at least 6 months of every year.

We just looked at breakdown of our Property tax for our Florida lot. It covers County Parks, Library, School, Fire, Police, Storm water and f water management.We are OK with that  and enjoy the Florida winters.

[Barbaraok]

1 hour ago, bobsallyh said:

Barbarok, hold on a minute! A friend of mine has a fiver on a rented space in a 55 plus RV park in the Foothills area of Yuma. It has current Wisconsin tags on it and has had for the seven years that he has been in the park. It never moves, pays no taxes, only the yearly site rental at the park. And since it is on seasonal lot rental there is no tax on the rental fee. Here, there is no sales tax on monthly's or seasonal, only daily's and weekly's. Tour the parks in this area and this is a common occurrence. It also includes Canadian owned rigs. Park model owners do pay a county tax on their unit as they are considered stationary.

So Yuma, or the county it is in, isn’t as active as the Maricopa County collectors.   The city/county don’t provide as many services, etc. so aren’t as aggressive.  I’m not sure I understand your point.   

[rpsinc]

12 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

TwoToes, you are asking why a DWELLING is taxed when an unused Harley isn't?   Is a vacant house taxed even though no one is living there?  The person is paying rental fee to an RV park for the lot (or has purchased the lot) and thus will be taxed accordingly.  If they don't want to be taxed as a DWELLING then they need to get the rig on the road for part of the year.   It really is quite simple once you remember that you are talking about a DWELLING and not a bike to ride down the road.   

An interesting twist to the issue of taxation on a dwelling is what I learned during the "Great Recession".  The properties that banks had in their bank owned porfolio of real estate was not contributing to the local(usually County) based tax structure.  At least that was the information I was given as I was looking into some bank owned foreclosures and short sales.  When I purchased a couple residential properties that I remodeled and put into the rental market, I felt pretty good about those units contributing to the local economy and tax structure.  So DWELLING should be taxed when being lived not when in storage but when it comes to S&B, the banks should contribute too.  Seems like some holes in this taxation PHENOMENA

[Barbaraok]

There are a lot of people in the Mesa area who have their 5ers on a lot in an RV park, for six months, THEN move that RV to a storage lot, often in another county, for six months.  They are then not renting on an annual basis, so RV park does not show them being there year round.  

[Twotoes]

23 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

TwoToes, you are asking why a DWELLING is taxed when an unused Harley isn't?   Is a vacant house taxed even though no one is living there?  The person is paying rental fee to an RV park for the lot (or has purchased the lot) and thus will be taxed accordingly.  If they don't want to be taxed as a DWELLING then they need to get the rig on the road for part of the year.   It really is quite simple once you remember that you are talking about a DWELLING and not a bike to ride down the road.   

If someone is paying to park their 5th wheel in an RV Park they do not own the property. They are paying to park. The RV Park owns the property. I have several rental properties and my tenant does not pay the property tax. As the owner of the property I pay the property tax. If I rent a lot or a house as a renter I do not pay a tax. 

[sandsys]

1 hour ago, Twotoes said:

If someone is paying to park their 5th wheel in an RV Park they do not own the property. They are paying to park. The RV Park owns the property. I have several rental properties and my tenant does not pay the property tax. As the owner of the property I pay the property tax. If I rent a lot or a house as a renter I do not pay a tax. 

We rent an apartment in a Continuing Care Retirement Center. In Minnesota, at least, that is a special type of housing. The company pays the property taxes but we are required to file for a homestead exemption. If we don't file for the exemption we have to pay the difference. That sounded so weird to me that I actually looked up the statute for myself since I'd never heard of filing for an exemption on rental property. But it is true.

Linda Sand

[Barbaraok]

11 hours ago, Twotoes said:

If someone is paying to park their 5th wheel in an RV Park they do not own the property. They are paying to park. The RV Park owns the property. I have several rental properties and my tenant does not pay the property tax. As the owner of the property I pay the property tax. If I rent a lot or a house as a renter I do not pay a tax. 

Do you live in Arizona?  What you might or might not pay somewhere else has nothing to do with how things are handled here.  If you rent and apartment, then the landlord owns both the site and the building.  You rent an RV site, the landlord does not own your RV.  In Arizona an RV on a lot will be taxed as personal property if it is there all year long.   Personal property taxes are different from 'property taxes' associated with owning a house/lot.     I'm not sure why people have such a hard time understanding that there are all kinds of different taxation regulations across the country.  

[kb0zke]

This whole discussion points out the fact that we all have to figure out what's important to us and act accordingly. Some people choose to domicile in States that have no income tax, while others are willing to pay that tax because the property tax in another State is less. As was mentioned earlier, every government entity needs money and that money comes in the form of a tax. No law requires anyone to pay more taxes than necessary, and Courts have repeatedly held that one is free to structure their financial activities to minimize the tax bite.

We chose a South Dakota domicile because that made the most sense for us. We're on the Active Waiting List at Hondo because that co-op makes the most sense for us. When we get a lot there we'll keep our SD domicile because we don't anticipate being in Texas long enough to make us residents there. We'll gladly pay the taxes on our lot, just as we gladly pay the wheel tax on our vehicles. Should the day come when we decide to spend more time at our lot in Hondo we'll switch our domicile to Texas and pay the additional fees for vehicle inspections. At that point, though, we won't be traveling as much so our fuel savings will more than offset that.

The point is that everyone needs to do what makes the most sense for them and not worry about what might be good for someone else.

[Ray,IN]

To the best of my knowledge that is state law in every state, the hotel/motel/rv park owner/BNB, etc. must keep a record of every "guest" who  stays with them; it's called "inn keeper tax". The inn keeper law is what give them the right to evict anyone who disobeys their rules.

[whj469]

I find that interesting, park models and taxes. In MI, a number of my neighbors have park models because you don't pay taxes on then because they are RVs. We pay real estate taxes on the lots only.