Rainbow's End price increase

[SWharton]

Escapees just raised the prices at Rainbows End. Getting expensive to stay there. I have always had a problem with their pricing of adding on daily extra charges. But $2 for 50a(OK for the summer) and $4 for a pull-thru seems excessive. We don't request a pull-thru but have always been assigned a pull-thru. Every time we have been there the pull-thrus are little used. I have no idea what a premium site is but that is $5/day extra. If you had a premium+50a+pull-thru your daily rate is increased by $11!!!!

We try to stay at Escapee parks to support them but will need to start reconsidering as to the length of stay or even staying there. 

[GR "Scott" Cundiff]

Almost sounds like KOA doesn't it.  

We used to stay at Livingston once a year, but since Thousand Trails is reasonably close and our stay is included in our dues we've not been back in a couple of years.  These price increases won't do anything to change that.

[Twotoes]

All Escapees RV Parks have had very reasonable prices in the past. Most private parks as well as Elks Lodge RV Parks have been raising their rates. It was inevitable that Escapees would raise their rates as well. I dropped my Elks membership which is over $100 a year, but for $40 a year I will continue to be an Escapee.

[traviscarr]

7 hours ago, SWharton said:

Escapees just raised the prices at Rainbows End. Getting expensive to stay there. I have always had a problem with their pricing of adding on daily extra charges. But $2 for 50a(OK for the summer) and $4 for a pull-thru seems excessive. We don't request a pull-thru but have always been assigned a pull-thru. Every time we have been there the pull-thrus are little used. I have no idea what a premium site is but that is $5/day extra. If you had a premium+50a+pull-thru your daily rate is increased by $11!!!!

We try to stay at Escapee parks to support them but will need to start reconsidering as to the length of stay or even staying there. 

First of all, on behalf of Escapees RV Club we thank you for your business and support. Your satisfaction is very important to us, and we hope we have been successful in providing you with an excellent experience with Escapees services.

We never like having to write these types of letters, but it's unfortunately sometimes necessary. Due to raising economical costs and the lack of price increases over the past several years, it was necessary for us to raise some selected rates at Escapees operated RV Parks. 

With a member base rate of $22 per night, we feel Rainbow's End and our other parks, are still very affordable and well under the national average for campground rates. We do utilize add-on fees such as 50 Amp and pull-thrus because we believe we should not build in these types of charges to guests that do not use them. Giving each guest the ability to choose what they want for amenities and what they do not depending on their length of stay, type of stay, time of year and so on. 

With today's modern RVs running more electronics than ever and normally running two if not three ACs, we have seen a steady increase over the past few years for electric consumption across the board. And since we only meter our monthly stays we must cover these increasing costs. Pull-thrus are generally intended to be utilized as short term stays and for those that are passing through. If we didn't charge more for these limited number of sites, our guests looking for a quick and easy setup would have a difficult time finding a site available to them, forcing them into a back-end site more often than not. Our premium sites are fully cemented pads and sitting area and are our version of a resort style campsite. 

So using Rainbow's End as an example as you have, you could theoretically have a daily rate increase of $11 if you were to utilize every single add-on we have. However, this is very unlikely for extend stays or even most guests. We try to accommodate everyone's lifestyle and wants as much as we can and therefore try to provide an abundance of options.

Let's also remember that most of our parks have a large activity center, clubhouse, and other facilities you won't find a most standard campgrounds that are maintained by the campground operation. 

[SWharton]

Travis, I generally agree with what you say but we should have a choice of what site we want, back in or pull-thru. Last year when we were there we were assigned a pull-thru and this year when I made our reservation again we were assigned a pull-thru. I assume all the back-ins are taken. If pull-thrus are all that are left I don't feel there should be a fee associated with them. If I request a pull-thru that is different. Also, when I call there is never any mention of additional fees. I am aware of them from the website but it would be nice if Escapees were upfront about the fees when calling, not everyone looks at the website nor asks if there are additional fees.

[Jack Mayer]

I can relate to the increasing costs. We have a small campground for servicing our customer base, and electric in the summer is averaging about $150 a month per site. JUST for the electric.

[rynosback]

Good explanation Travis.  In over three years of fulltiming I have yet to stay in an Escapees Park.  Looking forward to my first stay in one.

[Dutch_12078]

We've enjoyed staying at the SKP's Sumter Oaks park in Florida for several weeks each winter, but price wise, the current $22+ price there is about the same as the paved, more spacious, full hookup sites at the Salt Springs Recreation Area campground in the Ocala National Forest at $21.50 with our Senior Pass. We'll be at both parks this coming winter, and we'll be evaluating a longer stay at Salt Springs, possibly a month or more, for 2020. The weekly and monthly rates at Sumter Oaks do drop the price per night significantly though, so that's a factor as well. I don't know yet if American Land & Leisure offers a monthly rate at Salt Springs or not. One thing Salt Springs does have in its favor is site selection when reserving. Sumter Oaks asks for a site preference, but there's no guarantee you'll actually get that site when you arrive. For the past two years we've been shuffled to less desirable sites despite being told our preferred site was available at the the time we made the reservation. At Salt Springs and the other state and national parks we visit, the site you reserve is the site you get, barring extreme circumstances.

[2gypsies]

… just wondering why a pull-through should cost more?  The sites are already there. Why charge extra for every person that uses them?  Personally, we don't like pull-thrus. 

I don't know if they are or not but if the electric sites aren't metered they should be. Then everyone pays their own electric.

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, 2gypsies said:

I don't know if they are or not but if the electric sites aren't metered they should be. Then everyone pays their own electric.

It used to be that way and each visitor for short-term paid a base fee and electricity used as you departed. The change to encluded electric was made because users asked for that since most commercial RV parks do things that way. Doing things the way that you suggest you must then check out at the office when you leave, meaning you have to wait for the office to open before you can depart. 

[SWharton]

I never liked having to pay for the electricity I used, not because I objected to paying but I had to wait for the office to open up to pay the bill. One park we went to on a regular basis offered the site both ways, a set fee added for the electricity or by the meter. That still was annoying since you couldn't get the fee added until after 3 PM, why I have no idea.............We normally get in between 1-3 so this entailed another trip back to th office.

[dewilso]

They COULD do as some othe countries I’ve been in. They have a meter, like a parking meter. You slug the meter for how ever much juice you want. Of course meters, regular or otherwise cost money.

[ToddF]

Even with the changes, the rates are still less than many other parks. You can go by the month to reduce costs. You can go solar to get off the grid. You can boondock to bring average costs down. You could dry camp (a really nice option at some parks, not sure of the park in question). Lots of options out there. Gas is up 30-40% from this time a year ago.

It is good to be aware of the fees anof Livingston was aware of Livingston and how fees vary by site as I was there last Nov and was charged $2 when I moved from a back in site that had hookups on the wrong side of the RV and I moved to a pull thru site to get easier access.

[eddie1261]

"Let's also remember that most of our parks have a large activity center, clubhouse, and other facilities you won't find a most standard campgrounds that are maintained by the campground operation. "

This reminds me of an old joke that makes the point I would otherwise make.

A guy stayed at a hotel overnight. When they handed him his bill at checkout, it was $675. He asked why it was so high. The desk agent said "Well, we have the pool, the dance club, the gift shop, the restaurant... That is all included."

The customer said "But I didn't use any of those things."

And the desk agent said "Well, they were there for you. You chose to not use them."

The customer said "Okay but I want you to deduct $500 for you having sex with my wife." 

The desk agent said "I didn't have sex with your wife."

The customer said "Well, it was THERE for you...."

Point being, clubhouse, large activity center, other facilities.... I can't imagine me EVER setting foot into a clubhouse or an activity center. I am not social. I don't want to meet people. I just want to go places and see things, so to embed fees for optional socializing opportunities does not seem to be equitable for loners like me. The last thing I want to do is sit around a campfire with people I don't know and hope that maybe a real live bull session will break out. Activity center? To do stuff like jigsaw puzzles? All those amenities should be a la carte. I may be well-aged, legally a senior citizen, but I am NOT old. I'll be the same free spirit I was at 25 until they pour my ashes into my urn.

Just my dime on that aspect of it. Feel free to disregard.

What makes me even more dismayed is that there are only a handful of SKP places to buy a spot to have as an anchor point, and those all have a waiting list so long that I will not live long enough to get an opportunity to buy a space. Maybe some enterprising rich folks could think about building a few more of those. It MUST be a profitable endeavor or there would not be waiting lists with applicants who signed on in 1998. Supply and demand data never lies. If someone is willing to wait 20 years to get into a place, that place must have streets paved with gold, or at least a yellow brick road to follow.....

I found it interesting that you singled out that most people in this time of society travel with more electronics, thus the energy consumption has increased. Well, the reality is that more important than the energy requirement is the bandwidth requirement. I would be on board with rate increases if that increase went to improving the data infrastructure and eliminate the clause in almost every park rental agreement that says, in some veiled form, "If you stream TV on our wifi you will be shot!" THAT is where customer serving improvements need to be made, not "activity centers" so people can play dominoes and checkers or sit and knit. And that is industry wide, not just SKP. People are streaming more. That is a fact. Nobody is on vacation 24/7. There are down days, shows that people follow, etc.... A little different world now than it was 20 years ago when the general public was first introduced to the internet..

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, eddie1261 said:

What makes me even more dismayed is that there are only a handful of SKP places to buy a spot to have as an anchor point, and those all have a waiting list so long that I will not live long enough to get an opportunity to buy a space.

The co-op parks do not contribute to the Escapee income in any way as once the lots were all sold the only affiliation they have with the club is by association and support but no financial or management ties of any kind. Each of those parks is managed by a board of directors elected by the member/owners and are not under any authority of the Escapee management. 

[eddie1261]

1 hour ago, Kirk Wood said:

The co-op parks do not contribute to the Escapee income in any way as once the lots were all sold the only affiliation they have with the club is by association and support but no financial or management ties of any kind. Each of those parks is managed by a board of directors elected by the member/owners and are not under any authority of the Escapee management. 

I read that 4 times and I am trying to find a way to make it relevant to my dismay that the waiting lists are longer than it has been that the Browns won the Super Bowl. (They have never won the Super Bowl.) I would love to own a spot to call home base but I don't have 50 years to wait for my name to drift to the top of a waiting list, particularly when I paid money to get on that list. There are a few spots for sale (which I suspect is from people tiring of RV life or dying off, since those are pretty much the only reasons that spaces would become available) but the ones I would consider from the price point aspect are not at the co-op would like to be in.

C'est la vie.

[SWharton]

You talk about bandwidth. Escapee parks do not supply wifi as part of the site cost. You need to subscribe with a local supplier or have your own mifi(we do). Most commercial parks have enough wifi at least for email and some internet, no streaming.

 

[mptjelgin]

The SKP co-op lists ebb and flow. We signed up for one (Alamo Area SKP west of San Antonio) and made our way to the top of the list in less than half of the projected time. We ultimately decided not to buy-in as we'd made other arrangements, but they had several months where lots were available and no one snatched them up. There have been other co-ops that went from multi-year waiting lists to having several open spots in a relatively short time.

My point is that if you are truly interested in getting into one, put up the modest (refundable) deposit and see what happens. You might be surprised. If it doesn't work out you'll get your deposit back. Doing nothing guarantees that you'll never get in...

[SWharton]

If you are only interested in a co-op you need to put your name on the list and wait. If you want something faster maybe an ERPU lot would work for you. Are you limiting yourself to Escapee Parks? There are plenty of others......................

[eddie1261]

3 hours ago, SWharton said:

If you are only interested in a co-op you need to put your name on the list and wait. If you want something faster maybe an ERPU lot would work for you. Are you limiting yourself to Escapee Parks? There are plenty of others......................

Would you please PM me some other options? I am so new to this world that SKPs is the only co=op type system I know of. 

One park's list shows the people currently at #1 on the runway for takeoff signed onto the waiting list in 1997. You have to REALLY want to be in that place to wait 21 years to get there. I just wonder if they update to allow for deaths. I know people who decide to withdraw don't always inform the place. One park wants $1000 to be on their list. Seriously? $1000? Does that come with hookers and blow? That $1000 is about 1/3 of my solar equipment that would have to wait because I tied up $1000 to be on a list I will not likely live long enough to see come to fruition.

So, yeah, if there are other similar situations, please share them with me. I don;t even know where to look on the internet, how to parse the search terms, etc....

[mptjelgin]

Just because someone has been on the list since 1997 does not mean that they have been waiting for 21 years to be eligible to purchase a lot. They have likely passed on lots multiple times and simply rotated back to the top over and over. Different co-ops have different procedures. Some will let you stay at the top for a long period of time, passing on lot after lot as long as you are responsive to the "lots available" messages.  I believe that others will drop you to the bottom of the list if you pass a certain number of times. For whatever reason the 1997 folks have not pulled the trigger on a lot, but have also not chosen to remove themselves from the list. 

Beyond that, the Co-ops are supply and demand. The ones in more popular areas ask for a larger deposit and their lot prices may be higher as well. Less popular locations are cheaper, and easier to get in to. 

As far as options, there are rv parks all over the south that offer long-term, multi-year leases, purchase of a deeded lot, or some other combination that allows long-term occupancy. These will also be supply and demand, with better locations and more amenities demanding more $$$.  If amenities are not important to you, you should be able to find something fairly inexpensive. 

In Texas alone there are literally hundreds of parks in the Rio Grande Valley, on the Texas Coast, and in the Texas Hill Country that cater to folks who desire a permanent lot. 

But there is no clearing house that I am aware of. Google "Long-term RV parks", "extended stay" or "deeded RV lots" in the state(s) that interest you, and take it from there...

Example:

http://www.rvproperty.com/texas-rv-lots-for-sale/

[ToddF]

Circle T in the RGV offers a special for new customers...$725 for 6 months!

I like the 5 year lease program Escapee parks offer. Great deal.

Most campgrounds wouldn't survive without various amenities that attract a diverse customer base.

[eddie1261]

Thanks for the leads! I will start researching those areas!! Sounds like a good place to spend the winter months. Might be a little hot for me in summer, but that's what the idea of living in an RV is about, right? Move whenever you choose and follow the weather?

[ToddF]

I don't mind paying for pools and rec center etc. But the things we use are dog parks, cable, wifi, laundry, bike trails, walking paths. When we start snowbirding, I will look for "low key" parks where it is ok for us to do our own thing. Not into the social aspect of RV parks. If it becomes too much, we'll move out to the desert for the winter.

[dirtyboots]

This will be by 3rd winter in AZ.  The park I'm at has lots of social 'things' where certain groups get together to sew, paint, play bingo, coffee/pastry one morning per week....I don't attend any of them.  I do go out to lunch at least once per week with people I enjoy here at the park, usually just two or three folks at a time - we don't have a schedule - somebody decides they want to go somewhere and asks if you want to go.  The only 'plan in advance' things are Thanksgiving & Christmas.  A smaller park works for me, don't mind driving into town to shop, bank, Dr., watch a parade, see a car show.

I was lucky to find this first time out and have made great friends.  I like doing seasonal, then if I decide I want to go somewhere else I'm not caught up in having bought into property.  The joys of an RV'er, go where you want when you want.