Waiting to 65 to retire - death risk versus finances

[Zulu]

On 7/27/2018 at 9:24 PM, RV_ said:

Hey guys just saw this and thought I'd chime in and say that we did retire from the military and moved right into our new to us and bought cash HitchHiker fiver towed by our 1992 1 ton Dodge Ram Cummins diesel dual rear wheel truck. Age 45. 

Aside from ego issues it's not about money.

 

16 hours ago, RV_ said:

Yes, Zulu, I have Tricare for life, which includes all our Medical, prescriptions with no co pay if filled on base. Tricare is now my supplement for Medicare. And yes we have a military pension, SS X2, a civilian retirement, and our investments. We're good.

 

First, thank you for your service, RV. Two years as a draftee (remember that time?) was enough for me.

Anyway, your "it's not about the money" argument IS about the money. BTW, that's why I asked you if you had Tricare healthcare and a military pension.

It's comparing Apples ("Haves") vs Oranges ("Have Nots") again. That is, people with government/employer health insurance and/or pensions vs all the others without pensions and healthcare.

So when Haves make the "it's not about the money" generalization, I cringe.

Also, for those of you looking at other folks RV budgets, take them with a grain of salt -- one size does not fit all. For example, the multi-year budgets on RV Dreams (Howard & Linda) are very very detailed. However, their early health insurance budgets were incredibly small. That's because they had an employer-supplied Anthem PPO health plan. Now they're on the much more expensive ACA.

[Kirk W]

11 hours ago, Zulu said:

So when Haves make the "it's not about the money" generalization, I cringe.

Even health insurance after you retire should be a factor to consider when one accepts a position for a career, whether that benefit is from military service or from some private employer. When I left the Navy, I looked for and found an employer who provided health care for my family that was as near what I'd had as I possibly could. As a result, I was able to retire early with health insurance from that employer which was very valuable then and even more so today.

Current laws have caused many a private company to abandon the health benefits after retirement part of their plans and rising costs are impacting everyone, including the military and other government plans. Sadly, most of us do not pay much attention to what is promised to us at retirement as a benefit and we look most closely at the pay and immediate benefits part of our pay while we are still young. never grasping how quickly that retirement will come! Planning for health care is much the same as planning for financial security. 

[rpsinc]

As a follow up to Kirk, yes many companies have changed significantly the benefits packages they offer, esp. as it relates to after retirement.  I think that a large part of this is cost, probably the biggest, but also the trend that people dont stay with companies for a career.  My Father worked 43 years in his industry and for only 3 companies.  Now, many work for that many in a few years as that is a common way to progress up the corporate ladder.

So many things have changed.

[richfaa]

 SS and a 401K is becoming the retirement plan  now days including the US Government.Healthcare is perhaps the biggest expense for retirees as we get older  and many companies no longer offer it. We have friends that have been bankrupted  by healthcare cost.

We are a veteran but not retired military.Both wife and I are retired Federal Employees  and in terms of pension and healthcare pretty much in the same category as RV our combined pensions and a small SS check allow us to live the life style of our choice within reason.

Our Health care is the FEHB plan BC/BS and medicare which of course we paid  into when still employed and carried over into retirement  .We of course still pay for it.Without adequate health insurance we would not be able to live this lifestyle. I just had knee surgery and the bills are still coming in and are now over 6,000 $$.

With my skills "Electronics" I could have chose one of many companies to work for we chose the US Government because of the  pension  and healthcare benefits.The pay was not that great in 1962. It was the right choice. Looking into the future and planning it not as easy as it sounds when you are 21 and fresh out of the military. I had good advise and the good sense to listen to it.

[Zulu]

1 hour ago, Kirk Wood said:

When I left the Navy . . .

Did you retire with a military pension and Tricare?

[Kirk W]

3 hours ago, Zulu said:

Did you retire with a military pension and Tricare?

No, see my previous post. 

4 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:

When I left the Navy, I looked for and found an employer who provided health care for my family that was as near what I'd had as I possibly could. As a result, I was able to retire early with health insurance from that employer which was very valuable then and even more so today.

 

[RV_]

Thanks Jay!

Zulu,

I was raised on welfare when my mother at my age six, became divorced in 1958. It wasn't until I was in my 30s that I realized how dire her situation was with three boys age 7, 5 and 1y/o in those times of condemning divorcees, but worse my dad never paid child support and never contacted us. So Zulu, having worked from age 12 to buy my first guitar, and then a career as a chef that ended abruptly with my draft number 7, drawn in 1970 for everyone who turned 19 in 1971. They drafted to number 175 or so in 1970. So there was nothing for a 1A type like me not in school and working to do but run! I became a draft dodger!  I dodged it by joining the USAF before the Army could send me a "Greetings" letter and send me directly to Vietnam, do not pass go, do not collect $200. There was a warrant out for my arrest for draft evasion, as the letter came five days after I enlisted. They found me in Basic and my squadron commander, a captain, called me into his office to explain it and that the First Shirt took care of it.

I was hardly a "have."

However, we live way beneath our means and live on our SS and my retirement check from the USAF. The bank and investment accounts still grew faster than we spent it. That because we pay cash for our houses and vehicles and still get 2 year old nice cars and trucks. We keep a diesel truck, and two cars so we can haul and not be grounded if one goes in the shop. No credit card debt either. And our investments have been very lucrative. I am making some major moves with our investments in preparation for any drastic changes in Tesla and the end of the Bull market. The changes taking effect for this year and deducted next year gives us the first $77,000 and change in capital gains tax free!  That will help some with our 2018 filing.

I went back to work at age 52 -58 for fun as I had just had this startup company build my 24'X30'X10' workshop with slab. He wanted a website in 2004 and I wanted more concrete on my roll up door apron. I had his website up that day, he had my extra concrete poured the next day. I did not need to go back to work but he needed IT and sales management help. My house and property were and are paid for. As are the cars and trucks and tractors and zero turn mowers etc. No debt.  But we rarely go out to eat as my SH can out-cook most restaurants. So all my remuneration funded her last house purchase and flipped which sold just a week before the housing bubble burst. Lynn is a master interior trim carpenter and we can hire the rest again if we choose. I can handle just about everything else but from now on will hire out the

We are homebodies with a home theater now and are about to embark on our first real RV trip of more than a weekend since we came off the road in 2003 after seven years of full timing, to stay here to take care of aging parents. We did live in our 28.5 foot Sunnybrook fiver while our new house dirt pad and concrete was being poured and everything set up for gas not electric heat, cooking, water heating before it was ready to be moved into in 2015.

Because of a few good investments made at age 58 and a lifetime of enjoying the challenge of being frugal has as my wife said, has put us in a position to spend some on us. She asked what good is it being the richest corpses in the cemetery? Well we aren't rich by any stretch by today's standards. Our kids don't need our money but will get some anyway.

I owned an English language Satellite receiver and dish sales and installation company in Germany for English programming and sold the bootleg legal cards there. I had about $150,000 cash at one point and had a family meeting and asked them if they wanted me to spend it on touring and skiing and diving with them or to invest it for a much larger inheritance when we passed and all unanimously agreed that we may never get back there to do all that and we haven't. But we had a heckuva time for seven years there on my 30 days of leave a year and many three and four day weekends. We have memories and videos of the temples of Luxor/Karnak, then crossing the Nile to the Valley of the kings visiting Tut who is actually in his tomb under plexiglass with climate control, but nothing else in it. Our boys were both football and soccer players and I filmed the games. One of thousands of stories and trips our family shared in Europe 1990-1997.

We also were mobile DJ's professionally from 1983-2003 most weekends. Derek's Gold n' Oldies show was getting paid $500-$1000 a night for drinking beer and playing my music louder than I could at home. I hired a young Airman or SSgt and paid them $75 a night to be onstage and carry my gear out to the Mercedes then be on stage pulling requests and being part of the show, but mainly drinking no alcohol, and being the designated driver on the way home at 2-4 AM and carry the gear back in. We had a blast!

So now we are planning some trips to Australia, Japan and/or China. We'd like to dive The Great Barrier Reef before it is all dead from global warming.

We retired at my age 45 to full time RV for seven years when most military were working a second career, many in civil service. I would have just now been getting free to RV! I can't hike down into the Grand Canyon and get back up today like I could at 45. So we take advantage of any income we can just to keep it relaxed and enjoy our senior years as much as our working years.

We've achieved and exceeded our life goals. Now we set some new ones, as we change course yet once again. We have lived many more lifetimes than most, in the only one we have. I don't compare myself to others. There is always someone who has done more, with less. Seriously, that is why comparing is silly. It is an obsession for limited resource thinkers. A very good example of that is on my website, I'll post it here after this post

Folks, it isn't about the money, it is about goals met, and being happy with our lot. No matter if we have big bucks or not. If one is not happy with their lot don't go taking it out on folks who are. It won't work. Instead make different decisions and act on them to meet your own.

Edited August 15, 2018 by RV_

[RV_]

Limited Resource Thinkers

Generally, folks measure their success and security in life by "things." Some folks never ever can have enough things and are horrified when another makes the decision that "things" are like a millstone around your neck. You have to pay for them, then find a place for them, then dust them, then fix them when they break, and store them when you realize you aren't using them, and even getting rid of them is a pain whether yard sale, arranging for a goodwill pick up or just hauling them to the dump, involves re-inventorying, moving around and finding a new order to keep the "things" you are saving in. Many folks have beautiful furnishings yet buy all new furnishings every year or two just to validate their feelings of having things!

An illustration. I used to build and restore custom super stock VWs and Porsches. I restored a Porsche 911 Targa that I found for 900.00 rusting away and fortunately discovered it only needed some new vacuum lines and an Air Box to run perfectly along with some minor seals etc. So just couple of thousand later I had what looked and ran like a brand new 911. I enjoyed it for two years and then decided to sell it when I got orders to Germany. My friends and a few family members on finding out I was selling it were horrified Saying the same thing-"How can you sell it!!!???" I knew what they were really saying, that if they had a 911 they'd never be able to part with it because of the prestige, pride, image or whatever. As if a hunk of metal with an engine would make them "different." That's conditioning. Knowing what they were really saying (and with a few it was really disappointing to hear that they were that way) I didn't lecture or try to explain. I'd answer with an innocent look-"How can I sell it? Well, I put an ad in the paper and people call me and one of them buys it." (With a straight face) To which every one replied that's not what I mean-I mean you have a Porsche 911! How can you part with it? Then my answer was "If I want another one, I can just buy it, they have after all made millions of them haven't they."

 

People don't realize what they really tell you about themselves a lot of the time with comments like that. You see, they were "limited resource thinkers." They truly feel that when someone gets something, it has been removed from their possibilities. Like a limited pie with four pieces, they view the world as limited and when you get a piece of the pie that is one less available to them. I'm sure you have sold a car or something at one time or another and had a friend say something after the fact like "You sold it for that?? I would have given you that or more!!" I could never resist, you see they were viewing your good sale price as something they didn't get (limited resource thinking) and so had to try to rain on your parade some with a silly statement like that. They also do the same when you buy something and instead of being as thrilled as you are, have to say Oh man you could have gotten it cheaper at . . .or I could have gotten it for you cheaper from . . .?  I can't resist that scenario! LOL! My response (on a sale) Oh really? Well I told the guy that until he pays the cash, which he said he'd do next week, that it is still on the market and will go to the first person who comes up with the cash! I'm so glad we talked! So when do you want to pick it up?" I almost always can keep a straight face while they start to fumble for a way out of their faux pas. Not once, of hundreds of times I have pulled that on a limited resource thinker, have they been sincere. Every time the car or whatever was actually sold, but those people want everybody to be as unhappy as they are. And speak volumes of their view of the world.

The decision to RV indeed is not for everyone. But for some it is an acquisition of freedom that they lack the courage or desire to make. It invalidates their clinging to "things" or people, neither of which is forever. In life you can't freeze it and stay in a good time or place-there is no neutral, you are either in forward or reverse. Put another way the only difference between a grave and a rut are the dimensions. Some view RVing as a freedom that has somehow been removed from their realm of possibilities. I just tell them that there is no difference if we don't see each other for few months at a time from across town, or for the same time from experiencing this great land and its people in person. We will still be alive and coming for a visit, just like before, and boy will we have stories. See you can always get another house or apartment if you choose to, they have after all made millions of them haven't they. All it takes is a few shiny pieces of gold and silver or their equivalent and that's easy. The horizons, camaraderie, wonder, and adventure of the next real experience cannot be compared to sitting at home watching the Discovery channel. But if that's what floats their boat, it's OK with me. I won't try to impose my choices on them, and expect them to not try to impose theirs on me. On the road we get almost 100% genuine kudos from the folks we meet saying they wish they could be doing the same thing. They have the same dream for someday, we are living the dream now!
Safe travels

(Just don't tell the asylum you saw me here)

More here:http://home.earthlink.net/~derekgore/rvroadiervfulltimingwhatisitreallylike/id65.html

Edited August 15, 2018 by RV_

[Zulu]

5 hours ago, RV_ said:

I was raised on welfare when my mother at my age six . . . I was hardly a "have."

You missed the point.

Reread my post:

On 8/13/2018 at 6:02 PM, Zulu said:

Anyway, your "it's not about the money" argument IS about the money. BTW, that's why I asked you if you had Tricare healthcare and a military pension.

It's comparing Apples ("Haves") vs Oranges ("Have Nots") again. That is, people with government/employer health insurance and/or pensions vs all the others without pensions and healthcare.

 

I used "Have" and "Have Nots" to differentiate between retiree's health and pension benefits, not a person's upbringing.

[RV_]

6 hours ago, Zulu said:

I used "Have" and "Have Nots" to differentiate between retiree's health and pension benefits, not a person's upbringing.

And doesn't a person's upbringing result in the disparities we see in haves and have nots.

Zulu, you served two years, and made a choice to not make a career of the military.

That was your choice.

You obviously missed the point of the Limited Resource thinkers. You had your chance, so did most others of my generation.

 

[NDBirdman]

9 hours ago, RV_ said:

 you served two years, and made a choice to not make a career of the military.

That was your choice.

 

It's incredible the people I have ran into that wished, now at our ages, that they would have stayed in and did 20.  There were times at re-enlistment I almost got out as I always had jobs waiting for me at home.  Each time I had to weigh the options, each time I came to the conclusion that I was not working a job, but serving the country and having a blast.  Now, years later, I will say it was a decision that I will never regret.  Even with a stint in Saudia, Kuwait and a few other places, it was hard, but I have done harder jobs after retirement.  My military service racked my body to the point I'm disabled some and always in pain, but I will always be grateful I was afforded the opportunity to do 20.  Would I do it again, Hell Yes!

[sandsys]

10 hours ago, RV_ said:

Zulu, you served two years, and made a choice to not make a career of the military.

That was your choice.

You obviously missed the point of the Limited Resource thinkers. You had your chance, so did most others of my generation.

Dave served 4 years as a helicopter pilot. They offered him a serious upgrade in rank to reenlist. With a 99% chance he would be sent back to Viet Nam. Taking that offer would have been more Limited Resource thinking than getting out. The risk of early death was way too high.

Linda Sand

[richfaa]

We never considered  doing 20 or 30 in the military or anything more than the 3 years we enlisted for . We enlisted rather that be drafted (this was in 1954 and different times) and were fortunate to get into the signal corps. We  got training from Telephone installation and repair to Radar repair spending nearly half of my Military time in school including Ft Monmouth ,NJ. The excellent education we received put me on a path to Federal Employment  with the Federal Aviation Adm as a Electronic Tech. The pay Grade although low to begin with  but increased over the years with training and experience. The Military was good to me and the Federal Government was good to me. We retired with 40 years of Federal time good pension and good health insurance .Wife also did 33 years with the FAA, We are not rich or even remotely wealthy. We had  some  good luck with investments but do no investing now or have since 2006.We are enjoying what good fortune we had while we can.

Edited August 16, 2018 by richfaa

[Barbaraok]

18 hours ago, Zulu said:

You missed the point.

Reread my post:

 

I used "Have" and "Have Nots" to differentiate between retiree's health and pension benefits, not a person's upbringing.

For years I have heard ‘friends’ deride people who work in local/state/federal governments/education, etc., as to our ‘getting’ something for nothing.  Yes, we have a good retirement, but that was because we were generally paid less than someone in private employment, we Made the determination to do with less in our immediate pockets to have a little more latter on.  

[rpsinc]

12 hours ago, RV_ said:

You had your chance, so did most others of my generation.

And a choice was made.

[Darryl&Rita]

Where you are today, is a result of every decision you've ever made.

[rpsinc]

43 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

For years I have heard ‘friends’ deride people who work in local/state/federal governments/education, etc., as to our ‘getting’ something for nothing.  Yes, we have a good retirement, but that was because we were generally paid less than someone in private employment, we Made the determination to do with less in our immediate pockets to have a little more latter on.  

I agree.  I made the choice to be self-employed and in that lifestyle, work was/is VERY different.  Our customers affect/effect our schedules, prices, results, etc.  We do not usually get to control all of our life activities as we have those customers.  By the same token, we get to generally make more that if we had chosen a 9-5 JOB, although sometimes that means leaving for work at 4AM, driving 3 hours, working a 10 hour day and driving back 3 hours, then doing something similar the rest of the week/month.  No 401K, stock purchase, bonuses etc.  We then have to find a way to educate ourselves in the ways of savings, overhead reduction, investments, retirement planning, tax efficiencies, finding a team that we can trust to surround us with technical expertise to help us in the above noted endeavours.

Its been a lot of work so far but the challenges are from what choice I made for us and I am so grateful that I could make the choice that I thought best suited us.  Other countries and places dont have the same freedoms.

[rpsinc]

5 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said:

Where you are today, is a result of every decision you've ever made.

Yep, what he said!

[Kirk W]

3 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Yes, we have a good retirement, but that was because we were generally paid less than someone in private employment, we Made the determination to do with less in our immediate pockets to have a little more latter on.  

Government isn't the only employer who pays somewhat less but has better benefits, just the best known for that. In such case, the total pay package, when benefits are included is as high or higher than competitive employment. Unfortunately many opt for more money and less in benefits, not realizing the long-term effect. It is much the same as waiting too long before starting to save for retirement. 

[richfaa]

I was not fortunate enough to find one of those Federal Jobs were you could do nothing and get high pay . 37 years in the FAA mostly rotating shifts as we are open 24/7/365. If you traveled on an airplane and got there  folks like me got you there. Federal Employment military or civilian is a honorable  profession . We had a job we enjoyed doing got paid enough to raise a family and retired with enough of a pension and health benefits  to enjoy life..

[Zulu]

23 hours ago, Zulu said:

I used "Have" and "Have Nots" to differentiate between retiree's health and pension benefits, not a person's upbringing.

 

5 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

For years I have heard ‘friends’ deride people who work in local/state/federal governments/education, etc., as to our ‘getting’ something for nothing.  Yes, we have a good retirement, but that was because we were generally paid less than someone in private employment, we Made the determination to do with less in our immediate pockets to have a little more latter on.  

Well, I can see that "Have" and "Have Nots" weren't the best terms to use. However, I don't think anything I said about people with military/government health care & pensions was derisive. I just said some people have these benefits. The rest is in your head.

 

16 hours ago, RV_ said:

Zulu, you served two years, and made a choice to not make a career of the military.

That was your choice.

You obviously missed the point of the Limited Resource thinkers. You had your chance, so did most others of my generation.

Since I never had any intention of making the military my career, I don't regret that decision at all.

Just to be clear, I am a "Have". Between our 401ks, pensions, and annuities, the wife & I are hunky dory financially. So I'm not bemoaning my current status by talking about military/government health care and pensions.

[Barbaraok]

Zulu, I didn't say that you were derisive, what I said was that I have heard people make comments through the years about those who took a lower immediate income but had better retirement packages.  As you said, the terms you used probably weren't the best.      

[Kirk W]

7 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

what I said was that I have heard people make comments through the years about those who took a lower immediate income but had better retirement packages.

Government positions and employees have long been a popular target and remain that way. Look at any thread about our national parks and that attitude comes up, as is true with pretty much any government agency at any level. Check out any thread about the postal service or the VA and you will see that same thing. 

[ToddF]

Here is a good story on the topic of early retirement...

How to Retire in Your 30s With $1 Million in the Bank https://nyti.ms/2N8ClOn

It has some good links to things like Reddit (didn't know what it was) 

62 is looking better and better with no guilt or shame!

[khantroll]

I am not, nor am I likely to ever be, retired. Disabled maybe. Everyone has their own situation to decide, but it is highly unlikely I will make it to 70. As such, my fiance and I have made the decision to travel now, while we have job opportunities which allow us to do so. We do have some retirement options, and hopefully our careers will continue ascending for the next decade or so. If not, then we'll cross that bridge.