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New buyer looking for advice please


CeeLaVie

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On 5/25/2018 at 7:25 AM, SWharton said:

Now for the decision.

Do you have a toad or tow vehicle already? If the answer is yes just go whichever way for $$ savings. If you need to buy both a rig and some vehicle $70000 will not go far.

No, we don't have a toad or tow vehicle at this stage. The $70k is what we've committed to go towards the purchase price of only the RV, while knowing that we will be financing to get a Class A, should we decide to go that way. Because we don't want new, I thought we *might* be able to find a good, used, well-insulated 5th wheel for $70k, if we choose a fifth wheel. If its not enough we can get finance. 

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10 hours ago, SWharton said:

Are you planning to live in the RV during the winter? You mentioned that the rv just needed to be warm enough to keep things going. To me that would mean 40-50 F degrees. But I sure wouldn't want to live in anything that temperature. You can't be out every day all day, you will need home time.

Have you googled RVing in winter to see what others have said. A week or 2 is one thing but 4-6 months is another. Why don't you go to a cg that has permanents in  it and talk to them.

I don't think any of us are saying it can't be done but most of us feel it is challenging to winter in Canada.

We are planning to live in the RV during the start of winter. We will head north every winter, to the east coast of Canada, probably arriving early December and leaving around mid-January. We will park in the one place, and use the toad or truck (depending on what type of RV we get) to get around. 

Thanks for your suggestions. 

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7 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

Years ago there was a fiver forum I belonged to.  There was a active member on there that was full time in Alaska.  They had to take some pretty extreme measures to stay in their fiver all winter long.  Skirting and heavy insulation underneath, plus auxiliary heat pumped into the basement area if I recall correctly was one of the required issues.  Even with all that getting water was still an issue at times and all in all it was expensive.  

Everyone has their dream, but based on the desire to stay around $70,000 I think yours could stay just a dream.  If it was me I would be looking for a barn-a-menium set up.  A large metal insulated building to purchase where you could park your RV and toad inside during the winter in Canada.  If it was set up correctly with heat and utilities it could be very comfortable but still less expensive than a regular home.

Thanks. I will hunt for some blogs/videos about full-timing in Alaska. I'm starting to think its going to be better to go with a fiver for what we need. Thanks again. 

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4 hours ago, jcussen said:

Older high line Class A Diesel that has big enclosed tanks.Newell, Foretravel, Country Coach. King Aire. Many will have a diesel fired aqua-hot for heat and hot water, that will run off your 150-300 gallon diesel tank, along with your generator. No slides to leak heat. Tanks should be big enough so that you only have to dump and take on water when convenient.  It can be done,  Got caught in a couple of snowstorms, coach actually did better that a lot of cars because of its weight.       Just note on the aqua-hot,  most that have that system will have heat exchangers in the water bays on a thermostat that will prevent freezing. With 100 gal+ of fresh water and the same gray and black capacity, you can be self contained for a long time and only get your hoses out to refill and dump every week or so. The aqua-hot will burn about 1/2 gal of diesel an hour, so 2 or 300 gals will last you weeks before refilling, Propane is only used for cooking and/or fridge, so only need refilling probably yearly. A lot of these coaches will have dual pane windows and heavy blinds on the windshield so heat retention is good. Plus is you can use engine heat to keep motorhome warm when traveling in that cold weather.

Thank you! This is wonderful information and I really appreciate it. We were just about convinced that a fifth wheel was the way to go and now we are seriously reconsidering. The size of tanks would really come into their own with boondocking. I'm off to research those Class A's now. 

4 hours ago, LFDR3116 said:

You may also need to add a heat source for your refrigerator if it is the absorption type refrigerator typically found in an RV.  They do not work well in the cold.  They need heat in the absorption process to function properly.  I think the most used method is a light bulb near the exterior opening, or even partially blocking the exterior access door venting.  Not experienced with that though.  

 

The floors are always cold, which makes you feel cold especially legs and feet.  Multiple layers /throw rugs on the floor help.  Windows will need to be double pane some type of window covering that is insulated to keep the cold out.  Single pane windows would be about useless in the cold.  Roof vents - those plastic covers don't retain heat very well -- make sure to get the vent insulating pillows so stuff int he openings.  I think they make one for the skylight too.  The door area is also cold as there isn't much insulation in the door.  You might want to hang an insulated blanket over that opening once you are inside and staying put.  If you end up with a Class A the windshield is a major problem of letting cold thru the single pane windshield as well as condensation - enough that water will be running on the inside of the windshield by morning.  Even double pane windows will be wet - exterior walls in closets, behind the sofa, under the bed compartment if you have storage.  Anywhere your warmer air hits poorly insulated areas.  You will probably need a dehumidifier to help with all the moisture buildup.  

 

 

Thank you. Do residential style refrigerators work better in the cold and heat than RV style, do you know? These are all great points to consider. I think I might need to create a spreadsheet to go through each point for every RV we look at. 

Many thanks to you all for your responses. You've given us some great advice and many things to consider. Thanks. 

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2 hours ago, 2gypsies said:

Some manufacturers you might look into are:

Outdoors RV http://outdoorsrvmfg.com/  Northwood Mfg., Lance and Triple E   There are probably some Canadian manufacturers that I'm not familiar with and they might be geared more toward winter camping.

Best of luck in your search!  You'll find the right one for you.

Thank you for the manufacturers to look into. Funnily enough, it seems that the few Canadian manufacturers I found cater for holiday style RV's that are designed more for taking to Florida than for doing much travelling, and nothing suitable for winters in colder climates. 

The hunt continues (but now with some direction - thanks!)

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Just because it's not what most of us would choose to do doesn't mean it isn't doable. Lots of hunters and skiers camp in situations most of us would dislike. I'm glad we've been able to offer better advice once we understood your commitment to this type of camping.

Here's another item worth researching. Many people turn down the heat at night to 40° or so to preserve fuel while keeping pipes from freezing then use a heated mattress pad to help them keep warm while sleeping. That middle of the night trip to the bathroom though...! :)

Linda Sand

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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When we started talking about full-timing we decided that we would go at it with an open mind. In other words, we weren't committed to going full-time, but we weren't ruling it out, either. As each question was answered (and the next five raised) we asked ourselves whether we had learned anything that would definitely rule out full-timing. I'd suggest that you follow a similar plan.

The big issue is living in COLD temperatures. If you are going to stay parked you can use the various ideas that have been proposed here. If you are going to be moving around quite a bit, though, you will have to deal with other issues, such as keeping the coach warm while traveling. The MH will have the advantage here, as the Aqua Hot (or competing brand) will keep you warm while driving just as easily as while you are parked. A towable will have to run on the on-board propane, and that won't last all that long.

As for driving, the best advice I've gotten is DO NOT drive the RV unless the roads are clear and dry. That applies to motor homes as well as towables. We have a 40' Foretravel diesel pusher that weighs about 30,000 pounds. Two-thirds of that weight is on the rear axle and the engine is behind the axle. If the rear end lost traction while going down the road we could well be sideways very quickly. NOT something I want to try! With our towed it would be maybe a bit better as I have the brakes set up to come on on the towed before the coach brakes. A towable should be set up the same way.

There are may of us who full-time in Foretravels and Newells from the 90's, so don't let the age of the coach scare you off. High end coaches are usually (but not always) better maintained than cheaper ones and they start out with better materials and construction (which is why they are more expensive to start with). I'd suggest that you join the owners forums for the brands that interest you and share your proposed plan with the owners. Someone has already considered (and maybe even done) what you are proposing and can give you some advice.

Keep asking questions and refining your ideas. Don't be so committed to something that you end up ruining everything because of stubbornness, but don't give up when you meet the first obstruction, either. Remember that it is better to ask a thousand questions before writing a large check than to ask one question a thousand times afterward.

David Lininger, kb0zke
1993 Foretravel U300 40' (sold)
2022 Grand Design Reflection 315RLTS

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On 5/26/2018 at 5:49 PM, sandsys said:

Here's another item worth researching. Many people turn down the heat at night to 40° or so to preserve fuel while keeping pipes from freezing then use a heated mattress pad to help them keep warm while sleeping. That middle of the night trip to the bathroom though...! :)

I hadn't considered doing that for the whole RV but we had intended to keep the bedroom area unheated, as long as this didn't have a negative impact on the RV itself, or the basement heating. We sleep with windows open year round and only close them when it gets around -32F. It isn't great if we have to get up for a bathroom trip though. Good in the morning because you're suddenly very wide awake!

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10 hours ago, kb0zke said:

When we started talking about full-timing we decided that we would go at it with an open mind. In other words, we weren't committed to going full-time, but we weren't ruling it out, either. As each question was answered (and the next five raised) we asked ourselves whether we had learned anything that would definitely rule out full-timing. I'd suggest that you follow a similar plan.

This is great advice, thank you. We decided from the outset that we wanted to go full-timing but we knew there were a lot of issues to be sorted through that could make this impractical (or unwise) for us in our current situation - the big issue being the ability to work full-time, Monday thru Friday, with good internet access. Planning, for us, was condensed into just a few weeks but its also easier for us. We'd already sold our house and are renting a condo until August. We had started out with a plan to buy a house until one of us said, "why?" and "why don't we just hit the road while we are still working?" We spent the next day trying to answer, "why not?" and couldn't. My dad said he was surprised we hadn't thought of it sooner. Financial planner said go. Accountant said go. So, we're committed to going. 

10 hours ago, kb0zke said:

There are may of us who full-time in Foretravels and Newells from the 90's, so don't let the age of the coach scare you off. High end coaches are usually (but not always) better maintained than cheaper ones and they start out with better materials and construction (which is why they are more expensive to start with). I'd suggest that you join the owners forums for the brands that interest you and share your proposed plan with the owners. Someone has already considered (and maybe even done) what you are proposing and can give you some advice.

You're the first person that has suggested this! We came to that conclusion over the weekend and went out to look at a few Tiffins, and a 2004 Newmar Mountain Aire that is in superb condition. Absolutely beautiful and very well cared for by its two owners, with all maintenance records since new. We spent several hours with that class A and spent time chatting to owners of a few other class A's, and visiting some RV parks on Memorial Day to chat with anyone that seemed happy to talk to us. 

I love, love, love the Newmar coach. It's been in northern winters and apparently handles them well. Not toasty warm but comfortable enough. BUT it's not right for us at this time. I can see us with an older Class A sometime, but not now. We will be in close quarters Monday - Friday, working. I feel that the kind of lifestyle we will have while slow traveling, plus the confines during bad weather since we will be living in the RV all year, mean that the more space we can have for getting some private time and chill-out time without seeing our office setups, the better. 

So, we have narrowed down our search to either a fifth wheel with a separate bunk room, or a toy hauler 5w. We've looked at several new Grand Design models but nothing made us feel like it could be home. For RV's designed for full-time living they sure don't have much cargo carrying capacity either!

That's our next challenge - fifth wheel with really good insulation, including insulated slideouts and basement, that can carry a lot of weight. Preferably less than 40 foot. Used, because I prefer not to take the biggest hit from depreciation, & we haven't seen any models yet that don't have carpet - so an older model that we can rip the carpet out of and replace with engineered wood would suit us. We have a very big, very hairy dog! But, my three "must have's" are a shower with a seat (or room to put a shower chair in), washer/dryer connections,  and power (with, preferably a night stand/shelf/something to hold the cpap machine) beside the bed. 

Does anyone know of a list of fifth wheelers that shows ccc for each manufacturer and model, by year? We have a lot of computer gear and having a good amount of storage weight available is more important to us than floorpan. 

 

 

 

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If you are looking at 5th Wheels, I would look at DRV.  They are the top of the line mass produced 5er on the market (in my opinion) and have been around for a while so there is a decent used market for them.  They have a heavy duty frame, use good materials in construction, have decent carrying capacity and have the thickest sidewall in the industry (good insulation).  They also offer a toy hauler version.  Take a look at Rolling Retreats or RV's for Less.  They are usually the top two dealers for DRV in the US (for both sales and customer service) and have excellent reputations in the DRV community.  There are also some DRV specific Facebook groups and forums where you can get specific questions answered if you have them. 

In no particular order:

SOITC Forum (Suite Owners International Travel Club)
Thor DRV Forum
5th Wheel Forums DRV Page
DRV Owners Group - Facebook group for owners and prospective owners (must be a member of the group)
 

 

2000 Kenworth T2000 w/ Cummins N14 and autoshift
2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard
2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan
2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage)
2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage)
My First Solar Install Thread
My Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the build
My MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet!

chadheiser.com      West Coast HDT Rally Website

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Chad beat me to it. The only drawback to DRV and similar coaches is that they are heavy. That's really a good thing, as they are stronger than average, but you need a bigger truck to safely tow them. Look up Chad's coach and see what it weighs.

David Lininger, kb0zke
1993 Foretravel U300 40' (sold)
2022 Grand Design Reflection 315RLTS

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My trailer is 42' long and the weights are as follows (just to give you an idea):

21780 lbs – 5th Wheel fully loaded with all our stuff, full fresh water, full propane (minimal clothes and food) total weight
16940 lbs – 5th Wheel axle weight (loaded as described above)
  4840 lbs – 5th Wheel pin weight

This is not exactly a light trailer.  I am actually about 280 pounds over the GVWR of 21500 lbs as described above, but I am under the axle ratings of my trailer.  My trailer is a Mobile Suite.  DRV makes a higher level model called an Elite Suite built on the same frame/running gear as the Mobile Suite.  The Elite Suite has a higher GVWR rating (even though it is the same frame and running gear as the Mobile Suite) because it comes with a fiberglass roof, quartz counter tops and fiberglass fender skirts (along with some other upgrades that all add weight to the base trailer).  Based on this and the fact I very rarely travel with full water (100 gal capacity), unless I absolutely need to, I don't worry about being a couple hundred pounds over the GVWR once in a while.  I have a large battery bank and solar system, along with a 6500 watt commercial generator in my trailer that accounts for approximately 2000 lbs of the above total weight.  Without those added items, I would be well under GVWR even with a full timers load of clothes and food.  (I have a full timers load of everything else - I tend to carry a lot of stuff just in case ;)).

DRV makes bigger trailers than mine that have GVWR's of 24000 lbs.  These trailers are triple axle trailers (mine is only a two axle trailer).  They also make smaller trailers than mine.

With all this being said, you definitely need a truck capable of handling heavy weight to haul a DRV.  Any of the new super duty/heavy duty pick ups will do it.  I personally prefer something bigger, but that is a personal choice and is not for everyone.

 

On edit, someone just posted an Atlanta floorplan DRV for sale in the for sale section her on the forum.  I don't know anything about this trailer, but it is a two bedroom floor plan that would make a nice office in the rear.  

 

Edited by Chad Heiser

2000 Kenworth T2000 w/ Cummins N14 and autoshift
2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard
2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan
2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage)
2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage)
My First Solar Install Thread
My Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the build
My MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet!

chadheiser.com      West Coast HDT Rally Website

event.png    

AZCACOIDIAKSMNMOMTNENVNMNDOKSDTNTXUTWYxlg.jpg

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks Chad, and everyone here. Your advice has been invaluable. 

We decided to keep an open mind about what we thought might suit us and we have spent several days visiting RV parks and talking to owners. We thought we wanted a 5th wheeler. However, we don't - not at this stage of our journey anyway. Nothing wrong with them at all (and, oh boy! Those DRV's are gorgeous!) but we knew what we needed to get when we were out taking a test drive in a Newmar Dutch Star. It wasn't the Dutch Star (because that didn't feel quite right for our purposes), it was being up high and cruising around the countryside. The owner was keen to sell so wanted us to drive for some time to really get a feel for his motorhome. The dog immediately found a spot to lie in and went to sleep. And we just wanted to keep on driving. Having everything just THERE and so easily accessible felt right. 

kb0zke - you have steered us in the right direction. Thank you. We've looked at a couple of National RV's, an older Tiffin, and a 1980's Blue Bird. We have a Foretravel to look at this weekend and hope that it might be "the one". There's some wonderful 1980's/90's orphans around. 

Thanks again everyone. 

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On 5/26/2018 at 3:22 PM, CeeLaVie said:

We will head north every winter, to the east coast of Canada, probably arriving early December and leaving around mid-January.

Have you checked to see if there are places for RVs that are open all winter where you wish to stay? I do not recall many parks in eastern Canada from our visits that are open all winter. 

On 5/26/2018 at 3:46 PM, CeeLaVie said:

Do residential style refrigerators work better in the cold and heat than RV style, do you know?

They most definitely do. The absorption refrigerators such as are considered to be RV refrigerators must be able to make the refrigerant boil into a vapor in order to work. Most of them will stop working somewhere between 30° and 0°F(30° & -17°C) because the heat source making them operate is unable to do that. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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  • 10 months later...

I am just popping in to update this thread, in case anyone reading might be interested. 

We bought a 40-foot class A, coming up ten years old, sold up and moved on out.

We spent the winter in the snow and ice in Canada with some days temperatures getting down to -4F (-20C). Apart from learning how to avoid condensation, we had no issues whatsoever. We were comfortable all winter and thoroughly enjoyed looking out at the snow. We will be doing this again next winter. 

If anyone isn't put off by all the people that say wintering in Canada is a stupid idea, there's loads of videos on YouTube, and blogs, from people that have done it and some good tips to be found if you search. 

I thank everyone for helping us clarify that a motorhome would suit us best. It most certainly does and almost a year down the track we have no regrets. 

 

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4 hours ago, CeeLaVie said:

IIf anyone isn't put off by all the people that say wintering in Canada is a stupid idea, there's loads of videos on YouTube, and blogs, from people that have done it and some good tips to be found if you search. 

I thank everyone for helping us clarify that a motorhome would suit us best. It most certainly does and almost a year down the track we have no regrets. 

Good to know those video tips are out there for our Canadian friends who might find themselves wintering back home some time.

Also good to know you have no regrets. Thanks for coming back and updating us.

Linda Sand

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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3 hours ago, MidMOTraveler said:

The other parts to the OP’s list I’m wondering about. 

1) connectivity in the woods! 

2) campgrounds open with services in winter! 

Note: frequent moves in winter will require way more setup/breakdown 

If you read a few posts up you'll find that they successfully spent a winter in a Class A and they have no regrets.

Full-timed for 16 Years
Traveled 8 yr in a 2004 Newmar Dutch Star 40' Motorhome
and 8 yr in a 33' Travel Supreme 5th Wheel

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