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Andersen Hitches Owner caught defacing Corona Arch


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Ok, so no one should buy Anderson products. If the current trends in boycotts are followed, no one should buy from those that sell Anderson products such as Amazon and etrailer.com until they stop selling them. No publication or other media should accept advertisements for Anderson products or be shunned.. YouTube should ban all videos about Anderson Products. No one should do business with banks that do business with Anderson. Where does it end?

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20 minutes ago, trailertraveler said:

Ok, so no one should buy Anderson products. If the current trends in boycotts are followed, no one should buy from those that sell Anderson products such as Amazon and etrailer.com until they stop selling them. No publication or other media should accept advertisements for Anderson products or be shunned.. YouTube should ban all videos about Anderson Products. No one should do business with banks that do business with Anderson. Where does it end?

Reductio  ad absurdum------Second time today this logical fallacy was used to say a boycott is wrong.. First, someone argues the abuse of our protected land is so rampant that it is pointless to boycott something as insignificant as vandalizing the Corona Arch.  Next up, someone argues if you boycott Andersen, you will need to boycott every retailer, bank, and distributor that supports them.  NOPE.  Boycotting Andersen does not mean you do not care about broader issues. We all start somewhere. Also, I can just boycott Andersen with no obligation to boycott everyone else.  As I said earlier. I own a number of Andersen products. I am not going to dump them! I just have an issue with a company owner in the outdoor recreation industry that has a value system that would cause him to act this way. I am concerned not only with his actions in this particular instance but generally whether such a value system would allow him to cut corners elsewhere (I do have an awful lot of weight on an aluminum hitch after all. Makes one stop and think as they cross the Rockies in high winds--which was us two days ago ).   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

Dave and Lana Hasper

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27 minutes ago, Daveh said:

...Reductio  ad absurdum...Next up, someone argues if you boycott Andersen, you will need to boycott every retailer, bank, and distributor that supports them....

That is not what I said (at least not how I intended it to be interpreted). I said  "If the current trends in boycotts are followed..." and then asked "Where does it end?"  That is not recommending anything, simply commenting on the current tactics commonly being employed and asking how far does one go to punish the evil doer. You might want to read more carefully and try to understand what was actually written before you criticize/attack.

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2 minutes ago, trailertraveler said:

That is not what I said. I said  "If the current trends in boycotts are followed..." and then asked "Where does it end?"  That is not recommending anything, simply commenting on the current tactics commonly being employed and asking how far does one go to punish the evil doer. You might want to read more carefully and try to understand what was actually written before you criticize/attack.

So you are saying your post was just off topic?  Okay then. Since boycotts have been an active tool of protest in the US since at the very latest the Townsend Act and the Boston Tea Party, I suspect we will manage.Their current surge in popularity may reflect the dysfunction of our more traditional mechanisms for making a policy change. But now I am getting really off topic. 

Dave and Lana Hasper

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Ultimately, for most of us, we can only vote by where we spend our money. I understand because there are companies I won't buy from, but I find Andersen RV products innovative. Very few other companies seem to be willing to invest in research and development and I, for one, will continue to buy their products.

Rex & Karen

Libre y pobre en La Casa Rodante

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1 minute ago, BigTexRex said:

Ultimately, for most of us, we can only vote by where we spend our money. I understand because there are companies I won't buy from, but I find Andersen RV products innovative. Very few other companies seem to be willing to invest in research and development and I, for one, will continue to buy their products.

I agree about Andersen products. The company is extremely innovative and I actually was getting ready to buy some other accessories when this story broke. Good Customer service too. I really really regret this situation. For me, I just can't though. 

Dave and Lana Hasper

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Daveh,

Aren't you a medical person, a nurse?  Suppose a doctor commits a murder, kills his wife in a fit of rage.  Would you suggest that we boycott his medical group, the ten other doctors in his group and all of the medical and clerical employees of the group?  I mean, a doctor should be an ambassador for the sanctity of life, shouldn't he?  Wouldn't you wonder what other shortcuts he might take in his medical practice which might endanger his patients, since he has such a lack of respect for human life?  Surely, he must have caused someone's death in the past.

I understand your rage about what this Anderson guy did.  I understand the desire to make him pay a penalty for his actions.  I certainly agree that he should suffer the limits of the law.  I just don't follow your logic in wanting to penalize his employees, business associates, vendors, etc.  But, I respect your personal choice to spend your money where you will.

Everybody wanna hear the truth, but everybody tell a lie.  Everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody want to die.  Albert King

 

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3 minutes ago, chirakawa said:

Daveh,

Aren't you a medical person, a nurse?  Suppose a doctor commits a murder, kills his wife in a fit of rage.  Would you suggest that we boycott his medical group, the ten other doctors in his group and all of the medical and clerical employees of the group?  I mean, a doctor should be an ambassador for the sanctity of life, shouldn't he?  Wouldn't you wonder what other shortcuts he might take in his medical practice which might endanger his patients, since he has such a lack of respect for human life?  Surely, he must have caused someone's death in the past.

I understand your rage about what this Anderson guy did.  I understand the desire to make him pay a penalty for his actions.  I certainly agree that he should suffer the limits of the law.  I just don't follow your logic in wanting to penalize his employees, business associates, vendors, etc.  But, I respect your personal choice to spend your money where you will.

If we can hit the company's bottom line (as I suspect this bad publicity already has), he and/or his investors would more likely push to sell the company before letting it go belly up.  Thats my hope at least.  Personally, I wont be buying an Anderson product before that.

Edited by dartmouth01
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Yes my thoughts were similar to what Dartmouth said.  I don't dismiss your point Chirakawa. It is a very valid concern. But for your analogy to be fair let us say a doctor ran a special type of clinic and in his private life intentionally showed extreme disregard for those things his clinic stood for (i.e. a sobriety clinic and he was caught with drugs and evidence strongly suggesting a history of ongoing usage). And, for the analogy to be complete he can't just be any doctor but he needs to own and run the entire medical business and his name needs to be associated with it.   So yes, in those type of circumstances I could imagine referrals stopping and patients with addiction problems looking elsewhere until they received a very satisfying response. And, no, I do not think a response that I have been charged and will pay my penalty is sufficient. That is sufficient for the minimum standard set by society. This guy would have a much higher bar to cross. What should be done? Well, he could step down or he could jeopardize the entire clinic and those he employs.

If we follow your logic a corporation would never pay a large penalty because the employees might suffer. Look at it this way, if any other officer in Andersen had done this, they would be gone the next day. But he is the owner and he is not budging. If the business suffers it is because he won't accept the consequences of his behavior (he himself remains an addict in the analogy above). Andersen is lawyered up and doing nothing. He promises to do what the law would otherwise require and tells us everything is okay. It is not okay. He can step down from operations. He can sell the company. He can make specific and significant commitments by the company to future public conservation causes. But he cannot piss on my leg and tell me it is raining. He cannot engage in conduct that threatens his business and employees and then say it is my responsibility for responding to his own conduct.

Dave and Lana Hasper

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9 hours ago, Daveh said:

If we follow your logic a corporation would never pay a large penalty because the employees might suffer. Look at it this way, if any other officer in Andersen had done this, they would be gone the next day. But he is the owner and he is not budging. If the business suffers it is because he won't accept the consequences of his behavior (he himself remains an addict in the analogy above). Andersen is lawyered up and doing nothing. He promises to do what the law would otherwise require and tells us everything is okay. It is not okay. He can step down from operations. He can sell the company. He can make specific and significant commitments by the company to future public conservation causes. But he cannot piss on my leg and tell me it is raining. He cannot engage in conduct that threatens his business and employees and then say it is my responsibility for responding to his own conduct.

If we follow the logic of those who argue with Daveh's position on the Anderson issue, very little would change in the future and we would likely still be ruled by the Queen of England. Didn't those ruffians in Boston understand that dumping that English tea into the harbor would destroy the businesses that depend on selling tea for their income? 

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I have a suggestion for getting some money to enforce laws and regulations for the protection of public lands.  Over the next 5 years, double the grazing fees.  They are currently dirt cheap. 

Would this not have the exact same effect on the cowboys who work for these ranches that depend on federal grazing? 

10 hours ago, chirakawa said:

Would you suggest that we boycott his medical group, the ten other doctors in his group and all of the medical and clerical employees of the group?  I mean, a doctor should be an ambassador for the sanctity of life, shouldn't he?  Wouldn't you wonder what other shortcuts he might take in his medical practice which might endanger his patients, since he has such a lack of respect for human life? 

Absolutely I would wonder such and I would never go back to that medical facility if they took no action to remove and punish the doctor involved. But like most of the arguments against punishing Anderson's owner via his business, this has nothing at all to do with it since we are comparing an owner of the company to a key employee of the medical practice. 

 

At what point do you think it proper to refuse to do business with a company and risk harming the employees? Such thinking could be taken to just as ridiculous an extreme as the argument to harm Anderson Hitches. Perhaps the Dallas Police Department should be admonished for having closed down a chop-shop last week as it was employing more than 20 workers who now do not have jobs? Do you not care about those workers' now hungry children? 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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As usual Kirk, you take the discussion to the level of absurdity.  Boston Tea Party?  Really?

I think the actions of the doctor who is an owner/partner in a medical group is a good analogy to this owner of the Anderson products.  I have no doubt that this doctor will be prosecuted and most likely lose his medical license and probably his ownership rights in the business.  Those are the legal remedies resulting from such an act.

Your real argument is that you don't think the laws in place to deal with Anderson for his actions are sufficient and you propose to exact a greater penalty on him than those statutes call for.  Certainly, there are some actions which justify the destruction of a business and the suffering of it's employees.  I just don't agree that a rock in the desert is more important than the lives which will suffer if this business goes under.  JMO

Persons working in a chop shop are violating the law.  They will and should suffer the consequences of their actions.  If employees of Anderson are engaging in illegal activity, they too should answer for that.  I haven't seen any evidence of that.

Everybody wanna hear the truth, but everybody tell a lie.  Everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody want to die.  Albert King

 

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3 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:

...At what point do you think it proper to refuse to do business with a company and risk harming the employees?...

In today's culture it doesn't even take committing a crime. Research the reasons for the calls for a boycott against L.L. Bean.

On ‎4‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 1:00 PM, Kirk Wood said:

...So far as I am concerned, any place that I shop which carries any of his products will be told that if they continue to carry Anderson Hitch products they will lose all of my business... 

Do you purchase from Amazon? They list Anderson products. It has been 2 weeks. Did you notify Amazon? Have you received a response?

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4 hours ago, chirakawa said:

Your real argument is that you don't think the laws in place to deal with Anderson for his actions are sufficient and you propose to exact a greater penalty on him than those statutes call for.  Certainly, there are some actions which justify the destruction of a business and the suffering of it's employees.  I just don't agree that a rock in the desert is more important than the lives which will suffer if this business goes under.  JMO

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5 hours ago, chirakawa said:

As usual Kirk, you take the discussion to the level of absurdity. 

Although I could make the same comments about your examples, I prefer not to make a disagreement personal so will not to go there.  My point is that any time you impact a business no matter how it happens, you also harm the security of the employees. 

5 hours ago, chirakawa said:

I just don't agree that a rock in the desert is more important than the lives which will suffer if this business goes under.

I believe that debate is a good thing and in this case, I prefer to spend my money with businesses whose principles I agree with, at least to the point that I am aware of. Clearly, you should go and buy something from Anderson Hitches to demonstrate your support. That is how the free market works and others of us will take our business elsewhere. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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Chirakawa. We will agree to disagree.  In defense of Kirk, I think I am the first one that went down the road of the Boston Tea Party.  Protest (boycott) is part of our culture and I do believe complying with the law is the minimal requirement. You can be a really rotten person without ever violating the law. We have all had a space next to those people.  Ethics is a higher standard. Doing his with kids there, ignoring requests of others to stop and then doing his best to limit consequences puts this guy on my permanent S list absent further sincere and significant action.

Dave and Lana Hasper

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Chirakawa-------Here what are you going to do with this situation after she pays her fine?   Hire her as a babysitter? What if she owned a pet supply store or was a dog groomer?   Would you be good with it??    http://people.com/uncategorized/woman-caught-dumping-dogs-on-camera-san-antonio-good-samaritan-video/#01a8e801-d012-4e0c-a68e-88900e5c9323

Edited by Daveh
typos and include link

Dave and Lana Hasper

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22 hours ago, Mr. Camper said:

I'm personally going to ban myself from reading any more posts here on this thread.

X2

Two comments:  If I spray painted down someones RV would they not want justice?  I could just say it could of been worse and I have employees so take it easy on me.

Being from the business world I tried to patronize people who spent money with my company.  If you don't like what Mr Anderson has done don't buy from him. If you don't think his defacing  the land was bad, simple continue to purchase merchandise from him. THE END!!!

 

 

2002 Beaver Marquis Emerald   C-12 Cat 505 HP

2014 Volvo 630 D-13 I Shift SOLD

2017 New Horizons SOLD

 

 

 

 

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Time out......

How about the Arch???

Maybe.....just maybe.......Mr Anderson could be the "$olution" to this instance of bad-boy-defacing of public property.

 

Sometime ago I did a couple of gigs with a few Indian tribes and every day was "education" in ......"diversity"....

Some tribes have members that are born with the gift of restoring damaged natural places......so.......

You want to "wack-bad-boy-Anderson"......well try this one......petition the BLM to "cooperate" with Anderson (a$ he so pleeeeeded in his "oh I have sinned" letter) and then "liddle-Ryan" could pay ALL costs and Ryan would perform ALL the LABOR as DIRECTED by the Native "Restorer(s)" while staying in a NATIVE camp site nearby and substiting on natve diet........

Now this...... "Restoration".....is to be a full-time endeavor ......no days off for Ryan......

Here is the fun part......often these native restorers live life at a "different-drum-beat" than Ryan and the rest of us ...."Invaders"......so this "Restoration"  WILL take Ryan TIME and more TIME and since he has pleeeeded in his letter to make amends for his SINS it seems only Christian to help poor Ryan down the road to redemption......

Trust me when the Native passes you the plank of wood with the slimy ell's to eat IT is a Religious ..... Awakening....

 

Ryan has pleeeeded for our help in atoning for his SINS...... shucks this plan is so good perhaps the judge might help Ryan restore some other ...."$inners-$ins....."

 

Drive on.....(Pass the ell's and....sin no more)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by Dollytrolley

97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S

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It will be interesting to read the final outcome and whatever fine the BLM imposes.  When the boy scout leaders topped a hoodoo in Goblin Valley many of us were very upset.  They could have been sent to jail for a year and given hefty fines.  Nothing of the sort happened.  The local BSA removed them as troop leaders.  The official jail term was 1 year "probation".  The fine was a few dollars to erect a sign telling visitors not to knock over the hoodoos.  BFD. 

The issue is much bigger than the Andersons.  They are also going to get off with little more than a slap on the wrist.  We will see if all this big talk about boycotting Anderson products has any effect.  I doubt they will notice the difference. 

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2 hours ago, JimK said:

...It will be interesting to read the final outcome and whatever fine the BLM imposes... 

Once citations are issued or informations filed; the law enforcement agency has little influence, beyond recommendations, on the actual penalty or penalties imposed. The minimum and maximum penalties are generally established by law. The U. S. Attorney prosecuting the case decides which charges to pursue and whether or not to offer/accept/recommend a plea deal and what penalties to seek. If the case goes to trial, the judge or jury (if that is an option) determines guilt and penalties within the guidelines established by applicable law(s).  There are numerous high profile cases where charges have not been pursued or defendants who appeared clearly guilty have been acquitted.

Edited by TCW

The one that dies with the most toys is still dead!

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It looks to me like they are trying to cut a deal already and Andersen is doing his best to avoid jail by offering payment of the full penalty amount and significant community service. This is what bothers me about the guy. He presents this like it was his idea and it is clearly based on the penalty in the code and lawyer/PR firm maneuvers. He also says he did the vandalism without thinking in an apparent fit of love wanting to make a gesture to his wife. However, we now know he was interrupted and asked to stop and yet continued. This is why I intend to boycott without seeing much more in the way of contrition. 

Edited by Daveh
Addee typos

Dave and Lana Hasper

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