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Andersen Hitches Owner caught defacing Corona Arch


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I guess we will just agree to disagree. An outdoor recreation company cannot be led by someone like this. I wrote him and asked him for the sake of his employees that he sell his company. He will probably not do this for the same reason "thinking of self only" reason that put him in this situation. I understand Chirakawa that there are legal penalties that apply to anyone that would do something like this. He is not anyone. He should be an ambassador for the parks and public properties as you see with companies like REI. Personally, I do not believe this was a one time thing and I am very struck by the accounts that there were other adults around that asked him to stop and he continued. This was not a momentary lapse like his lawyered up apology suggests. Leadership at a company starts at the top. Why should I believe this company does not cut corners with safety regulations. Why should I believe they in any way care about their customers. I own the Andersen products. I am not going to throw them away but I will never buy from them again as long as this owner remains involved and  I encourage others to boycott also. Plenty of options available. 

Dave and Lana Hasper

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On 4/8/2018 at 8:32 AM, Kirk Wood said:

If nothing is done, why would his children not continue the activity that he is teaching them? I find it very difficult to believe that he has never done anything of that sort in his past. It is just that he previously didn't get caught. 

That's what worries me as well. 

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2 hours ago, Daveh said:

He should be an ambassador for the parks and public properties as you see with companies like REI. Personally, I do not believe this was a one time thing and I am very struck by the accounts that there were other adults around that asked him to stop and he continued. This was not a momentary lapse like his lawyered up apology suggests. Leadership at a company starts at the top.

I totally agree with this. I will never believe that he had not previously damaged any public property.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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Here's a link to happy fun loving encouraging facts.  It really is the tag line in the URL.  I'm not making it up.

Happy fun loving encouraging fact #11:

11. Apollo 17 astronaut Gene Cernan, the last man to walk on the Moon, wrote his daughter initials there. They’ll be there for at least 50,000 years.

Edited by rocksbride
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1 hour ago, rocksbride said:

 

Here's a link to happy fun loving encouraging facts.  It really is the tag line in the URL.  I'm not making it up.

Happy fun loving encouraging fact #11:

11. Apollo 17 astronaut Gene Cernan, the last man to walk on the Moon, wrote his daughter initials there. They’ll be there for at least 50,000 years.

I'd call writing initials in the dust on the moon  a drop of rain in the Great Lakes compared to the 400,00+ lbs of junk humans have dumped there since 1959. And certainly no more damaging than the thousands of semi-permanent foot prints also left in the dust.

Edited by Dutch_12078
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1 hour ago, rocksbride said:

 

Here's a link to happy fun loving encouraging facts.  It really is the tag line in the URL.  I'm not making it up.

Happy fun loving encouraging fact #11:

11. Apollo 17 astronaut Gene Cernan, the last man to walk on the Moon, wrote his daughter initials there. They’ll be there for at least 50,000 years.

I can see how that will encourage humans to rush to the moon , just so they can write initials in the ever changing dust .

50K years ??? So there's never any disturbance that ever effects the moons' surface ? How ridiculous is that thought ?

Goes around , comes around .

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In an earlier era leaving your name, date you stopped at a spot, etc. was not looked on the way it is today. In fact we preserve and study things like this today.  Back then we did not know any better now we do.  Perhaps we need to have some way now for people to do this without damaging critical spots. I am in no way condoning what he did just making an observation on the nature of things. Think petroglyphs, inscripton rock and untold carvings in trees.   Remember,  Kilroy was here.

Edited by bigjim
fingers didn't spell right
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I cannot believe this thread continues to attract attention and posters push for harsh penalties for this single action.

Do you people have any even vague hint as to what is happening on a regular basis to our public lands?  I don't think so.  Way worse than this incident occurs on a regular basis.  Huge tracks of land are being torn up with trail bikes and ATVs.  Much of the damage occurs on areas that are supposedly protected.  The damage done by one ATV in a few minutes is orders and orders of magnitude worse than this incident.  Not only does no one seem to care, but a vast majority of the local residents are against any attempts to protect the land.  Last Fall I was in Blanding, Utah and talked to the visitor center staff about the Bear's Ears Monument.  The locals staffing the visitor center were vehemently opposed to any attempts to restrict and protect.  They wanted to continue as in the past including being able to drive vehicles and harvest firewood where ever they wanted.  Ancient Indian artifacts are continuing to be looted by the TON!  Another big issue is grazing.  This is a monumental, horrid disgrace.  Tens of thousands of acres of semi-arid grasslands have been leased out to grazing.  This is land that has and continues to be destroyed by grazing.  It is an economic joke because the output is so minimal but the destruction is on a massive scale.  Those with leases have had those leases in their families for generations and behave as if the land was theirs.  The whole process is totally out of control.  There have been numerous ARMED conflicts with Federal officials over this situation with no resolution because of heavy local support.  Most Westerners want to throw the Federal government out so they can do what they want.  Of course, they were also successful in having Trump scale back the Bears Ears.

I could go on for days about the destruction of our wild and public lands.  All I can say is this incident was less than a drop in the bucket.  The indignation over this incident is ridiculous.  If you are really concerned, spend a little time becoming educated on the bigger issues involved.

Edited by JimK
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58 minutes ago, JimK said:

The damage done by one ATV in a few minutes is orders and orders of magnitude worse than this incident.  Not only does no one seem to care, but a vast majority of the local residents are against any attempts to protect the land.

Off-Road Vehicle Reform                    Off-Road Vehicle Damage in TX            Off-Road Vehicle Damage to the Watershed

1 hour ago, JimK said:

I could go on for days about the destruction of our wild and public lands.  All I can say is this incident was less than a drop in the bucket.  The indignation over this incident is ridiculous.

This in no way minimizes what this guy did. He took the actions intentionally and in an area that was known to be protected and what he did can never be repaired. In terms of off-road issues that might compare to violators of public lands that have been closed but lands that are not closed but should be is an entirely different issue. Do you believe that we should not enforce the laws that we have to protect some areas because some areas that should be protected are not? I believe that we should get serious about protecting what is now in that status and then address adding other things and areas which should be protected. 

I also believe that anyone who is serious about protecting our resources should be willing to help with that protection. That means that if you see violations you take pictures and then report the violations to the authorities. Having worked in more than a few federal and state parks and refuges, I know that enforcement officers have difficulty in protecting our resources and need our help. Just telling them about what you saw does little unless you stay there and go to court but most of us today have digital cameras and cell phones that will take pictures and photographic evidence can usually be enforced and really helps the agencies responsible. Those who are truly serious about changing things need to get busy politically to change protected area boundaries and to increase enforcement. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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4 minutes ago, Sehc said:

Kirk said it better than I would have.

My point is and was that we must start somewhere, sometime or nothing is ever going to change. I can't think of a better case to make an example of if we want the perpetrators to realize that we are serious. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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Respectfully JimK because I do agree with most of what you say but I do not believe your argument logically follows. I think most of us that travel full time are painfully aware of the destruction of our public lands and fight to preserve it. We also stayed in Blanding over a week last year and spent a lot of time in Hovenweep National Monument and Bears Ears. Bears Ears has magnificent beauty and also thousands of artifact sites some of which have previously been plundered, hence the protection, and now are open to plundering again. This is a travesty. I am aware of it as I am sure many other Escapees. I have signed petitions about Bear's Ears and continue to monitor the story closely. I consider it an unfolding tragedy and have written about it several times with posted pictures on my personal facebook account.

This is a long hard fight and where I disagree with you is that we cannot throw up our hands in disgust when activity occurs on a smaller scale because the problem is so great. That is defeatism. The argument also ignores why we are focused on this particular incident. Yes, it was bad real anger derives from who did it.  The head of an outdoor recreation company should not only be aware of the threat to our lands and heritage sites but should be an advocate for the protection of those lands. Companies like REI and Patagonia are at the forefront of protection efforts. 

Which brings us to this guy. He did this after being warned. He is in a position where he can have a direct influence on the issue of public land protection and he chooses, for nothing more than his amusement, to carve on an Arch. Are worse things happening? Yes. So, should we ignore this? NO.  We buy products for the outdoor recreation industry and we have a duty to demand that those companies share our values and respect our lands and heritage.

Dave and Lana Hasper

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2 hours ago, Daveh said:

...Bears Ears has magnificent beauty and also thousands of artifact sites some of which have previously been plundered, hence the protection, and now are open to plundering again...

Bears Ears was federal land before designation as a National Monument, by Executive Order, and will continue to be so if/when the boundaries of the National Monument are adjusted. The provisions of the Antiquities Act apply to all federal lands not just National Monuments.  "...That any person who shall appropriate, excavate, injure, or destroy any historic or prehistoric ruin or monument, or any object of antiquity, situated on lands owned or controlled by the Government of the United States, without the permission of the Secretary of the Department of the Government having jurisdiction over the lands on which said antiquities are situated, shall, upon conviction, be fined...or be imprisoned for a period of ..., or shall suffer both fine and imprisonment, in the discretion of the court..."

Existing federal lands were designated as Bears Ears National Monument by Executive Order. Executive Orders can be rescinded or modified by subsequent Executive Orders. The Antiquities Act (passed and signed into law in 1906) states "...That the President of the United States is hereby authorized, in his discretion, to declare by public proclamation historic landmarks, historic and prehistoric structures, and other objects of historic or scientific interest that are situated upon the lands owned or controlled by the Government of the United States to be national monuments, and may reserve as a part thereof parcels of land, the limits of which in all cases shall be confined to the smallest area compatible with proper care and management of the objects to be protected..."

It is relatively recently that the Antiquities Act has been applied to areas in the hundreds of thousands of acres rather than seeking designation through an act of Congress. Activists and lobbyists love this approach because they have to convince relatively few people compared to getting a bill through Congress and signed into law. Objections from affected states and local communities have occurred in the East and over the designation of marine areas not just in the western states. 

The one that dies with the most toys is still dead!

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It is great that there is an antiguities act but it does little good without any enforcement.  That has been the situation and continues to be the situation in much of the southwest, including the culturally rich areas around Blanding and the area that was designated as the Bears Ears Monument. 

I am not saying we should ignore the issues, but the attention to this incident is just silly compared with the destruction that is happening on a massive scale. 

BTW, unless something has changed recently, Corona Arch, is beautiful but it is not a "protected area".  It is just another patch of BLM land like tens of thousands of other acres.  There has been some attention because daredevils like to climb on top of the arch and then bungie jump or swing through the arch opening on ropes.  I am not sure if that has been officially prohibited.  If so, I have seen no signs of enforcement and when I have visited people were still swinging on ropes.

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9 hours ago, packnrat said:

but i bet vandals would mess that up also.

I sure won't argue against that.  I tend to believe there is an element out there that can mess up an anvil with a rubber hammer and they are very dilegent about it.

For Jimk, Trust me plenty of us are all too aware of damage being done and will do our little bit to stop it but if we think about it too much it could drive us crazy. I see it constantly on my volunteer work. Realistically there is only so much we can do about it with the resources we have.  On the good news side there are a heck of a lot of volunteers giving hours and hours and spending their own money at times to keep things up, again the best they can.

Edited by bigjim
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47 minutes ago, JimK said:

...It is great that there is an antiguities act but it does little good without any enforcement.  That has been the situation and continues to be the situation in much of the southwest, including the culturally rich areas around Blanding and the area that was designated as the Bears Ears Monument...Corona Arch, is beautiful but it is not a "protected area"...

One of the problems with designation of areas as National Monuments by Executive Order is that the President can not authorize or appropriate funds. So, even if more protective rules/regulations are implemented, there is no change in the amount of money available to the managing agency. Any increased enforcement must come out of existing appropriated funds or additional congressional appropriations or increased fees. Discussions on this and other RV forums indicate that not all RVers favor increased fees just as some do not favor restrictions on dispersed camping that can and have been implemented on National Monuments.

The one that dies with the most toys is still dead!

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1 hour ago, JimK said:

I have a suggestion for getting some money to enforce laws and regulations for the protection of public lands.  Over the next 5 years, double the grazing fees.  They are currently dirt cheap. 

That will likely be as popular with ranchers that have grazing leases as raising camping fees is with RVers. But, it is a proposal worth making to Secretary Zink, your Congressional Representative and Senators (contact them and express your opinion). There is currently a bill (the National Park Restoration Act) working its way through Congress to fund the maintenance backlog at National Parks so awareness of the need for improved funding for public lands may be at a point where viable solutions will be given consideration.

Edited by TCW

The one that dies with the most toys is still dead!

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This is not a NP issue.  The big issue is the BLM and other public lands.  Cheap grazing rights just means we have cattle destroying semi-arid grasslands that are not suitable for grazing.  The amount of beef raised is minimal, but the damage to the land is serious and widespread.  Public access is also greatly restricted and often totally restricted due to these leases.

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5 hours ago, JimK said:

It is great that there is an antiguities act but it does little good without any enforcement.  That has been the situation and continues to be the situation in much of the southwest, including the culturally rich areas around Blanding and the area that was designated as the Bears Ears Monument. 

It would help the enforcement people who are there if visitors like yourself would get digital photo evidence and then be willing to testify if the case should be prosecuted. No amount of enforcement will work unless everyone who loves the backcountry helps to enforce the rules. And making a public example of those who are prosecuted would go a long way to letting violators that we are watching.

3 hours ago, JimK said:

I have a suggestion for getting some money to enforce laws and regulations for the protection of public lands.  Over the next 5 years, double the grazing fees.  They are currently dirt cheap. 

Do you know what the current fees are and also how those fees compare to what the same fees are for privately held land?  Here is a link to the current fees.  Even though those fees are quite low when compared to the cost to graze on privately held land, based on the figures for 2014, increasing the fees even excessively will do little to solve enforcement problems.

Quote

. Receipts from grazing fees were $125 million less than federal appropriations in 2014. Total federal appropriations for the USFS and BLM grazing programs in fiscal year 2014 were $143.6 million, while grazing receipts were only $18.5 million.

 

1 hour ago, JimK said:

The big issue is the BLM and other public lands. 

You are oversimplifying things and even if all that you say is accurate, what does that have to do with the Anderson case? The issue of which problem is greater, or even more important does not warrant the downgrading of people for wanting him punished. You should be encouraging of those who wish to join in to stop things like the Anderson case and recruit them to join your cause as well. Demeaning others for wanting him severely punished does nothing to help your cause but probably does it real harm. Better to do what we can than to complain about worse things while doing nothing at all. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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2 hours ago, JimK said:

...This is not a NP issue.  The big issue is the BLM and other public lands...

I did not say it was a National Park issue. Secretary Zink is the Secretary of Interior and as such is also responsible for the Bureau of Land Management. I was using the proposed legislation for National Parks as an example that perhaps the time was right for legislation to adequately fund other/all federal land management agencies. If enough people engage their elected officials perhaps some beneficial changes to public lands funding can be achieved.

Edited by TCW

The one that dies with the most toys is still dead!

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