Tesla Battery

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, Yarome said:

My guess would be more in the $30-$35k range.

I never cease to be amazed by the amount of money that some folks spend to save paying campground fees. The majority of RV folks with big solar systems that I have known live off grid less half or less of the year.  That would make your cost higher and savings less. If they finance the job that pushes that cost even higher. None of the dry campers I have known spent anywhere close to that or had anywhere near that large a system. It could well be that the owner of that rig has some special need that none of us have thought of, but I highly doubt that the company sells very many of those systems. 

[Yarome]

2 minutes ago, Kirk Wood said:

I never cease to be amazed by the amount of money that some folks spend to save paying campground fees.

For the majority... saving CG fees has absolutely nothing to do with installing systems that allow them to go "cordless". 

[Kirk W]

12 minutes ago, Yarome said:

For the majority...

You just made my point, so why did you try to cost justify?  The justification is in that they like where they stay and can afford it but I still question how many of those the company will sell. 

[Yarome]

1 minute ago, Kirk Wood said:

You just made my point, so why try to cost justify, as you did?  

Sheesh. You really got a "bug" goin on with me lately don't cha... 

It was an anecdotal remark.. not a "cost justification".

And with that... I'm done playing this game. Enjoy...! 

[hemsteadc]

I worked hard for my money, now my money works hard for me.  I like not having to "justify" or budget everything I do. What others think of how I spend money is of little consequence to me.

[hemsteadc]

O

On 1/17/2018 at 9:26 AM, jpcoll01 said:

YOu might be able to "technically" do it, but not for long with only 100ah.

Of course.  I was commenting about 'a few hours'.

[Ronbo]

I didn’t try to justify the cost. For me is was a proof of concept for a larger off grid house in the future. It also enables me to enjoy my stuff when the power goes out. When I upgrade to a hybrid inverter it will enable me to enjoy all my stuff when in a park with 30amp power or one of the many with low voltage. This, to me, is the best justification for a system, if you need to justify it. 

[GlennWest]

I look forward to the time when my job doesn't dicates where I stay. My retirement a few years off. Want to get power independent prior to that so as not spending this money on retirement funds. 

[Smitty77_7]

Always enjoy threads like this, especially when it's just so easy to make suggestions and 'Gee, you could do this to...' - with OPM's:)! (And yes, this is Other Peoples Money, or in RV/Derek's  (Hey Derek:)!) case - his future Tesla profits:)!). 

I've been research Stick & Bricks home AC units, and stumbled across this company. It was new to me, since last time I researched over 10-12 years ago now. (And note, just sharing, sure have not looked real close at this yet... But, it's for sure a new twist on feeding AC power, and an optional smaller generation system for the home too...):

http://abcosolar.com/products/smart-frog-solar-ac/

Back to Tesla. My neighbor has a the Big Boy Tesla Car, 18 months ago it was the model with options that was the fastest production care in the world. In November, he added one Powerball to his house. He has a solar system from about 5 years ago, that was incorporated with the Powerball. He knows it's not enough to provide all of his power needs, but with the Tesla Electric Car, he gets discounts from local electric utility of which he is in a 'credit mode' at the of the year due feeding power into the grid. He bought the Powerball, well because he could afford it, and also because he likes techie stuff. And is probably up their with Derek and I admit myself, as a fan of all things Elon Musk:)! 

He also receive both federal and California credits, to help offset the costs of the Powerball install. 4-5 people three vehicles the first day. Then two people and one truck to finish things off the second day. And no, he did not share the costs with me. Sure looks pretty:)!

Best to all,

Smitty

 

 

 

 

 

[Al F]

6 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:

I never cease to be amazed by the amount of money that some folks spend to save paying campground fees.

As Yarome said, it is not about saving money as such.  Although the savings from not staying in RV Parks is significant. 

It IS about NOT staying in RV Parks.  Being crammed in to a parking spot with our only view is the other RV's out our windows is not what we are interested in. 

It IS about staying in very scenic places with wonderful views of the sky, mountains, wildlife sometimes and not having others around unless we want to be with them. 

Another benefit is the freedom to travel where and when we want to, not tied down by needing reservations. 

For example, in 2016 we spent 4 1/2 months from Portland, OR to most areas in Alaska that are driveable, and back to Portland.  Other than the reservations we made in Denali NP, about 2 weeks before we arrived we didn't make any reservations.  Since we didn't need any hookups we were free to move when we wanted and stayed where we wanted.  We did make very extensive use of the Days End listings for places to park.  I know I have read reports of people touring Alaska w/o making reservations, but there are times RV Parks are full at the time you may want to be there. 

We were on the road for 139 days and only 2 days did we stay in an RV Park with hookups.  Also we only ran our generator 1 day for a couple of hours for battery charging because of cloudy weather. (We did run the gen once a month for maintenance) We also used our microwave, toaster, TV & Satellite TV receiver, charged Sharon's power scooter and power wheel chair, CPAP every night, two laptops, etc. 

Our total camping fees totaled $1046 for an average of about $7.50 a day.  If we had paid an average of $40/night we would have spent a total of $5560.  So our savings were $4514, which paid for the lithium batteries and solar. 

We also saved on camping fees in our travels from Oregon back & forth to/from San Antonio and continue to save every day we travel.  

Currently we are 2 weeks into an 8 week trip through southern NM, AZ & CA.  We have spent one night a Escapees in Benson, dry camping for $5,  and one night in Picacho SP (NW of Tucson) for $31 (expensive).  Picacho SP is very nice, very clean & neat.  Great views of mountains and sky.  The rest has been free. 

We are in the minority, but there is a fairly large number of us with this traveling style.  A few of them have blogs. 

 

[Al F]

One more thing to add about spending the $$$ to be independent of elect hookups.

I am constantly amazed at the folks who go to visit our wonderful National Parks, but can't stay inside the park because they have to have hookups.  Then they stay outside the park and drive, many times for 45 minutes to an hour to get to places inside the park. 

They miss the ranger programs in the evening, and many of the ranger guided walks & talks during the day or evening, because it is so far to drive to get to the programs & walks.  Then there are the hikes.  Being outside the park you first have to drive, then hike, then drive back.  Lots of time and energy wasted.

To us, all the things mentioned above are a large park of the experience of visiting our NP's. 

Maybe I shouldn't be shouting the praises of dry camping.  It has been very hard to get into the NP's & NF's because of all the people who do dry camp.  

[RV_]

9 hours ago, Yarome said:

For the majority... saving CG fees has absolutely nothing to do with installing systems that allow them to go "cordless". 

Amen!

[ALLOY]

2 hours ago, Al F said:

As Yarome said, it is not about saving money as such.  Although the savings from not staying in RV Parks is significant. 

It IS about NOT staying in RV Parks.  Being crammed in to a parking spot with our only view is the other RV's out our windows is not what we are interested in. 

It IS about staying in very scenic places with wonderful views of the sky, mountains, wildlife sometimes and not having others around unless we want to be with them. 

Another benefit is the freedom to travel where and when we want to, not tied down by needing reservations. 

For example, in 2016 we spent 4 1/2 months from Portland, OR to most areas in Alaska that are driveable, and back to Portland.  Other than the reservations we made in Denali NP, about 2 weeks before we arrived we didn't make any reservations.  Since we didn't need any hookups we were free to move when we wanted and stayed where we wanted.  We did make very extensive use of the Days End listings for places to park.  I know I have read reports of people touring Alaska w/o making reservations, but there are times RV Parks are full at the time you may want to be there. 

We were on the road for 139 days and only 2 days did we stay in an RV Park with hookups.  Also we only ran our generator 1 day for a couple of hours for battery charging because of cloudy weather. (We did run the gen once a month for maintenance) We also used our microwave, toaster, TV & Satellite TV receiver, charged Sharon's power scooter and power wheel chair, CPAP every night, two laptops, etc. 

Our total camping fees totaled $1046 for an average of about $7.50 a day.  If we had paid an average of $40/night we would have spent a total of $5560.  So our savings were $4514, which paid for the lithium batteries and solar. 

We also saved on camping fees in our travels from Oregon back & forth to/from San Antonio and continue to save every day we travel.  

Currently we are 2 weeks into an 8 week trip through southern NM, AZ & CA.  We have spent one night a Escapees in Benson, dry camping for $5,  and one night in Picacho SP (NW of Tucson) for $31 (expensive).  Picacho SP is very nice, very clean & neat.  Great views of mountains and sky.  The rest has been free. 

We are in the minority, but there is a fairly large number of us with this traveling style.  A few of them have blogs. 

 

That was a great post to read. We are planning to take the kids on a Northern dry camping trip.

[RV_]

Alloy, you'll have fun!

 

[Yarome]

12 hours ago, Al F said:

It IS about NOT staying in RV Parks.  Being crammed in to a parking spot with our only view is the other RV's out our windows is not what we are interested in. 

It IS about staying in very scenic places with wonderful views of the sky, mountains, wildlife sometimes and not having others around unless we want to be with them. 

Another benefit is the freedom to travel where and when we want to, not tied down by needing reservations.

VERY eloquently put!

It's all in the perspective. Looking from the opposite side of the fence it's just as easy to say, "look at how many years of CG fees I had to pay in advance just so I don't have to stay in one... and I can't even camp-host the bill down!" 

[Kirk W]

14 hours ago, Al F said:

It IS about NOT staying in RV Parks.  Being crammed in to a parking spot with our only view is the other RV's out our windows is not what we are interested in. 

 

No disagreement here at all. What I was commenting on is the really large systems designed to run your a/c and all of the things you would have in a stick house, compared to the power conserving systems that are more common. I don't see the demand for is the huge systems like that Newmar one. I used to be in the "get off where nobody else is" group when I was younger and I somewhat envy some of the systems that are becoming more common. It used to be that the only way to remote places was with a tent. I'd buy that Newmar if I could afford it but I can't. What I wrote was taken wrong as my point was that I laugh when the owner of one of those rigs talks about saving money. The justification is in enjoying life, not saving money. 

[Al F]

3 minutes ago, Kirk Wood said:

 

No disagreement here at all. What I was commenting on is the really large systems designed to run your a/c and all of the things you would have in a stick house, compared to the power conserving systems that are more common. I don't see the demand for is the huge systems like that Newmar one. I used to be in the "get off where nobody else is" group when I was younger and I somewhat envy some of the systems that are becoming more common. It used to be that the only way to remote places was with a tent. I'd buy that Newmar if I could afford it but I can't. What I wrote was taken wrong as my point was that I laugh when the owner of one of those rigs talks about saving money. The justification is in getting away, not saving money. 

No real disagreement with your comments.   Some people buy a really large solar/battery system, because they can.  Just like some people have to have a very large RV, but don't travel all that much.  (Folks with large RV's don't take that personally.  Most of us on this forum spend lots of time in our RV's or full time.)

But, no, I wouldn't buy a large RV and/or solar/battery system like the Newmar in video. Even if we could afford it.  Much to big go the places we like to go.

One thing about the Escapees forum.  Lots and lots of folks here do spend lots of time using their RV.  Unlike some other forum's where the "experts" on the forum (such as staff and others) either spend limited time in the RV or RV'ed in the past and now are in a fixed location and have not kept up with what a lot of us on this forum do on a daily/weekly/monthly or fulltime basis.

"Investing" in solar and expensive lithium, should be considered primarily for people who enjoy dry camping and boondocking and travel that was for a significant part of their travels.

Just like "investing" in an RV to travel in versus staying in motels and hotels.  Unless you use the RV a lot it is not cost effective.  It also gets very hard to justify $100,000 to $350,000 or more in an RV to save money.  It is a life style, not cost justification. 

I had to put investing in quotes.  So many times sellers talk about "investing" in some thing as though it truly is an investment.  When really it is just you spending large sums of money. 

[Kirk W]

2 minutes ago, Al F said:

Just like "investing" in an RV to travel in versus staying in motels and hotels.  Unless you use the RV a lot it is not cost effective.  It also gets very hard to justify $100,000 to $350,000 or more in an RV to save money.  It is a life style, not cost justification. 

Reminds me of advice that was given to me by the service manager at Vogt RV when we bought our first motorhome. "When you travel with this RV, it will be much more economical to stay in the motorhome if you choose luxury hotels to "not stay in" rather than using the motorhome instead of cheap motels." 

[Al F]

12 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:

Reminds me of advice that was given to me by the service manager at Vogt RV when we bought our first motorhome. "When you travel with this RV, it will be much more economical to stay in the motorhome if you choose luxury hotels to "not stay in" rather than using the motorhome instead of cheap motels." 

Thank you, Kirk.  I got a good laugh from that!  Sharon had to ask me what I was laughing at.

[Ronbo]

We do not have a generator mounted in our rv. My solar takes the place of the generator. I do have a generator on the truck. It is used mainly for welding. 

[RV_]

Ronbo,

That would be my plan too in an RV. All of the same cost ROI arguments could be put forth about off grid homes. I only want the generator here to run when the power goes out. I will be getting a small 2000 watt inverter charger for convenience as it is much easier than pulling out long extension cords, and can be used with any RV.

For our new to us Scamp fiver, we are selling and may not get another. We can make do with a truck camper. We are selling our two cars and Ram diesel truck too because we will need a 4WD truck and a Subaru for each of us, one being a Forester, for daily drivers.

Guys, I am looking for a solar/wind house now, that can be connected to the grid if needed. The real savings is when a project can be added to or finished from a previous owner. We don't like the humidity and heat here in the South, or the fanatics, and are leaving. Our recent windfall inheritances and our investments have changed our status 180 degrees. I am thinking of investing in a marijuana firm or two once we settle in. I don't drink or smoke and won't smoke that either. Edibles, that may be another story. <grin> But I was up there for Christmas with my son, DIL, and Grandson, and went to a marijuana shop for the first time in my life save for the Hard Rock Cafe in Amsterdam. I was amazed. It was NOT a head shop.

I thought a missile silo would be cool but they are way too far out for broadband, and when finished, cost in the multi millions. If we cannot find the right house we will rent an apartment and build new. If we build new it will be earth sheltered or in a hillside. But we want to stay within 20 miles of Colorado Springs or Denver, and not up on the top of the front range.

There are lots of folks that would point out every possible pitfall including ROI. ROI is only important when you are hampered by having liens on houses and vehicles or not going to live in it or drive it daily.

Do folks who buy multi million dollar yachts and penthouses, Lambos and Ferraris, worry about ROI?

They are the same issues in a house as in an RV, the systems just have to be bigger unless the house budget dictates otherwise. We were lucky and can do pretty much anything we want because this will likely be our last house.

My wife and I have decided that we are not going to end up the richest dust in the wind (we'll be burned and scattered). It is hard for us to spend on new and that won't change unless we can't find a house away from subdivisions but this time no more than an acre and room for an RV hookup. I am getting too old for all the upkeep on our five acres here. So we will hopefully be buying or building an off grid home. All we need is the solar and/or wind, and two or three Tesla PowerWalls. I also like the idea of using a Tesla battery system for backup. But that will be a battery system in our Tesla model 3 when AWD is available.  I believe they had an option for using Tesla cars as backup home power. But that won't be for a couple of years while they catch up with the preorders.

Aesop had a story about folks who come out against the purchases or plans of others, like some here. I covered that on my website when I sold our 911 Targa: http://home.earthlink.net/~derekgore/rvroadiervfulltimingwhatisitreallylike/id66.html

 

 

 

[rbertalotto]

I still don’t understand why someone hasnt figured out how to use a EV toad as a battery system for an RV. When parked at campsite, plug RV into the toad. If towing the toad, regenative charging and RVs solar panels charge the battery bank .

[noteven]

On 1/18/2018 at 2:26 AM, RV_ said:

Noteven,

Were we over your head? Now that's funny, I don't care who you are!

Yes

[noteven]

16 hours ago, rbertalotto said:

I still don’t understand why someone hasnt figured out how to use a EV toad as a battery system for an RV. When parked at campsite, plug RV into the toad. If towing the toad, regenative charging and RVs solar panels charge the battery bank .

Can an automotive engine be set up with a "marine" alternator that provides the correct charge rates? Or do lithium batteries not need "bulk" charge rate? If that makes sense? 

As far as towing your Tesla it should also be able to have a simple control on your motor home dash that engages the Tesla drive so it becomes a pusher on grades . 

And uses regeneration to provide retarder force for the whole rig 

Maybe Telma can set up their driveline retarders to send power to batteries? 

 

[RV_]

Noteven and rbertalotto,

The problem with those kinds of solutions is no one in their right mind will try to modify a $35-$70k car and void the warranty. However Tesla is the place to ask on their forums. Personally I won't use anything not designed and sold by Tesla on a Tesla.

As far as using it as a generator on the road, that would create drag on the towing vehicle and take a toll on fuel mileage that may cost more than just charging at an RV park. Solar, sized appropriately for the uses, and a reasonable battery storage system are still the answer.