South Dakota or Florida

[nancyrwall]

Would I have to be officially a resident of SD to register my vehicle there?

 

[Kirk W]

6 minutes ago, nancyrwall said:

Would I have to be officially a resident of SD to register my vehicle there?

 

 

Legally, the issue is where the RV or vehicle is "garaged" or kept when not on the road. SD will probably have no issue with you registering it there if you spend the night to get proof that you have been there as required. But that will do nothing to prevent MN from requiring you to license in that state if you take it there and keep it parked for long enough to draw notice. If you will have it parked in MN for more than a brief period there is a possibility you could be ticketed and fined for failure to register it there. There is no law in any state that ties vehicle registration to domicile. The legal side of this is based on where the vehicle stays. For example, people who have two homes often have a vehicle or two that are registered at each location and they leave the vehicle there when they return to the other home. That is the proper/legal way to do that. Most states have laws that require registration of vehicles if you are employed in their state or if you stay there beyond some length of time. While all states honor the registrations and driver's licensing of other states for visitors, they also have laws about when you cease to be a visitor and when a vehicle must be registered there. The law you need to concern yourself with is that where you physically have the vehicle as well as that of the state where you register it. 

[nancyrwall]

Kirk.  This is very helpful.  I thought about registering it in OR because that is where it is going to sit for 3+ months while it is being built out but there website says you must be a resident of OR to do so.  I will check the website of SD to make sure I don't have to prove residency.  I will be flying back to MN next month to visit my son.  I could easily drive to Sioux Falls and register my new van in person but I won't have the van there. Do you see any problem with that?  

 

[Kirk W]

2 minutes ago, nancyrwall said:

I could easily drive to Sioux Falls and register my new van in person but I won't have the van there. Do you see any problem with that?  

 

I don't think so, as long as you have your SD address and you spend a night to get the receipt that SD requires for registration. I have never registered a vehicle in SD but many here have and do so hopefully one of them will chime in to give you more detail on the actions needed. 

[JRP]

You must have your SD mail forwarding address setup first. You do not need a SD drivers license to register your vehicle. You will need the original Title, bill of sale and certified weight if its an RV. You will also need some document showing any previous state sales tax payment on the same vehicle (if that's not shown on the bill of sale), if you want to receive credit against the SD 4% tax on vehicles. All vehicle registrations are done at your local county treasurers office, depending on where your SD mail forwarding address will be.  You don't need to have the vehicle with you when registering, as long as its already been titled somewhere and you're not changing the class of the vehicle. I've always been with Americas Mailbox, so my experience is in Pennington County. There may be slight variations in other SD counties. 

Most but not all of the SD mail forwarding services also offer a vehicle registration service where you don't have to go there yourself, You send them all the original paper work, sign & notarize a power of attorney doc and they go stand in line and get your registration & plate and send it to you. (there is an extra fee for that service)

The receipt for an overnight stay in SD is a requirement when getting or renewing your SD drivers license, not vehicle registration.

[sandsys]

6 hours ago, nancyrwall said:

Sandsys, I just bought a cargo van in AZ,  having it shipped to OR to be converted into a Class B.  It won't be done until after the New Year but I need to get it registered within 90 days.  I'm not sure where and. how to get it registered.  I'm considering changing my domicile to SD since my current address is MN and I will be on medicare next May.  When you say you registered your new motorhome by using your mail forwarder, is your domicile in SD and your mail forwarding through Escapees?  

At that time our domicile was in South Dakota at Alternative Resources, which was our mail forwarder. They have since changed their name but I'm not sure to what since we are again domiciled in Minnesota. Any mail forwarding service that offers extra services can do the registration. My understanding is Escapees is not one of the ones that offers extra services beyond mail forwarding.

Linda Sand

[sandsys]

BTW, we spent a summer in MN while our RV was licensed in SD. But, we lived in an RV park during that time. I think it might have been a problem if we'd parked in a relative's driveway that long.

Linda

[Blues]

Minnesota is tricky. 

There's a case from the Minnesota Supreme Court where some Minnesota residents changed their domicile to South Dakota, sold their house in Minnesota, and started fulltiming.  The decision even says, "All parties agree that the Sanchezes left Minnesota with no intent to return. The issue is whether the Sanchezes established a new domicile in South Dakota." 

The court found that they remained Minnesota residents.  It's a little complicated, but this statement in a dissenting opinion is pretty clear:

Quote

This court has never before held that a taxpayer must shackle themselves to another state in any specific fashion or for any specific period of time in order to effect a change in domicile. But, after today's decision, taxpayers wishing to establish a change in domicile will have to buy or rent property in another state and remain physically present in that state for some undefined period of time.

https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/2197571/sanchez-v-commissioner-of-revenue/

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

I guess by that Minnesota Court Decision, that collecting MN income tax on renters would be invalid too as they own no property.

[Zulu]

14 hours ago, nancyrwall said:

I have been full-time for the past 16 months and I never plan to return to MN to live.  I only have kept my domicile there for the MN health insurance until I go on Medicare.

Do you have a MN ACA health plan?

[sandsys]

This couple went to South Dakota and changed many things intending to establish domicile there. But they continued to live in their house in Minnesota and claimed a homestead exemption there for another month. When the house finally sold, they never went back to South Dakota nor did they return to Minnesota. They then filed a partial year tax return in Minnesota from the date the house sold. The court ruled that they didn't actually establish domicile in South Dakota or anywhere else, since they didn't establish ties to the new community after moving out of their house, they therefore owed the full year's income tax to Minnesota along with interest and penalties for the five years it took the state to decide they never left.

So, my guess is if you are if you are moving from Minnesota to South Dakota, don't do anything in SD except set up your mail forwarding. Once you actually leave MN go to SD and do the licenses, voting registrations, join some clubs/church, etc. Stay in a campground more than one night and keep your receipt to prove you "rented" a place there. I might even go to a museum, eat in a restaurant, and see a movie, spread out over a few days keeping all those receipts, too. I might also, while in SD, buy whatever household goods I needed for the new RV and keep those receipts, too. In other words, don't move before you move then do establish ties to the new place.

I am not a lawyer so this is not legal advice; just my thoughts on what the couple could have done differently to avoid the problem they caused themselves.

Linda Sand

[Blues]

2 hours ago, Mark and Dale Bruss said:

I guess by that Minnesota Court Decision, that collecting MN income tax on renters would be invalid too as they own no property.

The court didn't say property ownership in Minnesota is a prerequisite to being subject to Minnesota's income tax.

There are 26 factors to be considered when determining whether a taxpayer is domiciled in Minnesota, and one of them is "location of newly acquired living quarters whether owned or rented."

[sandsys]

Minnesota Administrative Rules

8001.0300 RESIDENT AND DOMICILE DEFINED.

Subp. 3. Considerations. 

The following items listed will be considered in determining whether or not a person is domiciled in this state:

A. location of domicile for prior years;

B. where the person votes or is registered to vote, but casting an illegal vote does not establish domicile for income tax purposes;

C. status as a student;

D. classification of employment as temporary or permanent;

E. location of employment;

F. location of newly acquired living quarters whether owned or rented;

G. present status of the former living quarters, i.e., whether it was sold, offered for sale, rented, or available for rent to another;

H. whether homestead status has been requested and/or obtained for property tax purposes on newly purchased living quarters and whether the homestead status of the former living quarters has not been renewed;

I. ownership of other real property;

J. jurisdiction in which a valid driver's license was issued;

K. jurisdiction from which any professional licenses were issued;

L. location of the person's union membership;

M. jurisdiction from which any motor vehicle license was issued and the actual physical location of the vehicles;

N. whether resident or nonresident fishing or hunting licenses purchased;

O. whether an income tax return has been filed as a resident or nonresident;

P. whether the person has fulfilled the tax obligations required of a resident;

Q. location of any bank accounts, especially the location of the most active checking account;

R. location of other transactions with financial institutions;

S. location of the place of worship at which the person is a member;

T. location of business relationships and the place where business is transacted;

U. location of social, fraternal, or athletic organizations or clubs or in a lodge or country club, in which the person is a member;

V. address where mail is received;

W. percentage of time (not counting hours of employment) that the person is physically present in Minnesota and the percentage of time (not counting hours of employment) that the person is physically present in each jurisdiction other than Minnesota;

X. location of jurisdiction from which unemployment compensation benefits are received;

Y. location of schools at which the person or the person's spouse or children attend, and whether resident or nonresident tuition was charged; and

Z. statements made to an insurance company, concerning the person's residence, and on which the insurance is based.

Any one of the items listed above will not, by itself, determine domicile.

Charitable contributions made by a person will not be considered in determining whether that person is domiciled in Minnesota.

[Kirk W]

In most cases, the difficulty is in breaking ties to the state where you have been paying taxes but there can be other problems. Most courts would agree with this one that you must establish a new domicile as just leaving the area does not break the old one because you must have a domicile somewhere and the present one remains in force until a new one has been established. This article was written by Susie Adams, an attorney practicing in TX but the principles would apply to any other state as well. Very seldom does a fulltimer have his chosen domicile challenged but it can happen. Some years ago in researching the subject, I found two cases where a new will was rejected because of domicile issues. Challenges of domicile change are rare but can be disastrous when they do happen. 

The Ten Commandments of Texas Domicile

[CasperBob]

8 hours ago, sandsys said:

 

So, my guess is if you are if you are moving from Minnesota to South Dakota, don't do anything in SD except set up your mail forwarding. Once you actually leave MN go to SD and do the licenses, voting registrations, join some clubs/church, etc. Stay in a campground more than one night and keep your receipt to prove you "rented" a place there. I might even go to a museum, eat in a restaurant, and see a movie, spread out over a few days keeping all those receipts, too. I might also, while in SD, buy whatever household goods I needed for the new RV and keep those receipts, too. In other words, don't move before you move then do establish ties to the new place.

I am not a lawyer so this is not legal advice; just my thoughts on what the couple could have done differently to avoid the problem they caused themselves.

Linda Sand

Some good ideas though, Linda. We'll be in the Black Hills next weekend and my wife asked me if we should start all the process. I told her we need to wait till we sell the house in the spring, should we decide to change our domicile from WY to SD, for some of these very reasons. Although Wyoming is much more laid back on these type issues. We are only 4 hours from Rapid City, so it's not like we are driving across several states.

[nancyrwall]

15 hours ago, Zulu said:

Do you have a MN ACA health plan?

I do.  I will be on Medicare next May.  

[Zulu]

7 hours ago, nancyrwall said:

I do.  I will be on Medicare next May.  

Here's the thing: the ACA isn't based on your domicile. It's based on where you actually live.

[Blues]

 

17 hours ago, Zulu said:

Here's the thing: the ACA isn't based on your domicile. It's based on where you actually live.

That's true, but what other choice does a fulltimer who travels constantly and "lives" in a different health insurance market every few days or weeks have, other than his domicile?

[Jim Gell]

On 9/19/2018 at 8:38 AM, nancyrwall said:

Would I have to be officially a resident of SD to register my vehicle there?

 

 

On 9/19/2018 at 8:57 AM, Kirk Wood said:

Legally, the issue is where the RV or vehicle is "garaged" or kept when not on the road. SD will probably have no issue with you registering it there if you spend the night to get proof that you have been there as required. But that will do nothing to prevent MN from requiring you to license in that state if you take it there and keep it parked for long enough to draw notice. If you will have it parked in MN for more than a brief period there is a possibility you could be ticketed and fined for failure to register it there. There is no law in any state that ties vehicle registration to domicile. The legal side of this is based on where the vehicle stays. For example, people who have two homes often have a vehicle or two that are registered at each location and they leave the vehicle there when they return to the other home. That is the proper/legal way to do that. Most states have laws that require registration of vehicles if you are employed in their state or if you stay there beyond some length of time. While all states honor the registrations and driver's licensing of other states for visitors, they also have laws about when you cease to be a visitor and when a vehicle must be registered there. The law you need to concern yourself with is that where you physically have the vehicle as well as that of the state where you register it. 

I would not depend on generalized beliefs on this.  I suggest you actually consult the specific States involved.  For example, I was a long time resident of NY before we went full time and became domiciled in SD.  I had a pickup truck I wanted (and have)to leave at my FIL's in Ohio. I use it a few weeks a year mostly for hunting in Ohio and NY.   I thought, based on the advice I had read on this forum that because it was "garaged" in Ohio, I needed to register it in Ohio.  Ohio BMV didn't think so.  In fact, I went to two different BMV offices in Ohio and tried to register it.  Supervisors at each told me that as a non-resident, I was not allowed to register it in Ohio. 

[Zulu]

4 hours ago, Blues said:

That's true, but what other choice does a fulltimer who travels constantly and "lives" in a different health insurance market every few days or weeks have, other than his domicile?

One state that we can be sure that can't be used for an ACA plan for her is MN.

[Blues]

On 9/21/2018 at 6:16 PM, Zulu said:

One state that we can be sure that can't be used for an ACA plan for her is MN.

Why is that?  What other state would she use?

 

[Zulu]

1 hour ago, Blues said:

Why is that?  What other state would she use?

I don't know, but not the one she said this about . . .

On 9/19/2018 at 5:28 AM, nancyrwall said:

I have been full-time for the past 16 months and I never plan to return to MN to live. 

[Blues]

But she has to pick one.  Any suggestions on what criteria she should use, if Minnesota is off the table?

[Zulu]

42 minutes ago, Blues said:

But she has to pick one.  Any suggestions on what criteria she should use, if Minnesota is off the table?

She should contact healthcare.gov . . . and refrain from making any more self-incriminating posts.

[Blues]

This isn't the first time you've recommended that someone contact healthcare.gov about where fulltimers who travel all the time should get their insurance. 

But what is healthcare.gov going to tell someone like nancyrwall, who apparently lived in Minnesota and has kept her domicile there (and is presumably paying Minnesota income tax)?  If she's traveling constantly, what other state could she possibly use for her health insurance?  Minnesota is the obvious choice, and there's nothing that puts any other place in the running.  So Minnesota is the only choice.

But just to play your game, I did call healthcare.gov and just got off the phone with them.  I said I wanted leave my state and start traveling around fulltime in my trailer, not staying anywhere more than a day or a week or so, and was wondering which state I should use to get my health insurance.  I was put on hold so the representative could get an answer, and she came back to say I should use the state where my primary residence was, and I asked for clarification:  "The state where I'm living now, before I start traveling?"  She said yes, and that I should look for a plan that will cover me in multiple states once I'm traveling.

Like I said, it's the only practical choice for someone who travels constantly, and now it's been verified by a call to healthcare.gov.

You seem resistant to the idea that people use their mailing address for health insurance, but have never offered any other practical solution.  I think that's because there isn't any other practical solution.  I know it, fulltimers who travel know it, and it healthcare.gov knows it.