Patriot Act and Customer Identification by Financial Institutions

[Waccamaw]

I have used a personal mailbox (PMB) through UPS for over 9 years.  I recently received a phone call from my broker at Morgan Stanley that my mailbox address kicks out of their system since it is not a valid "physical address" for me. I have been a customer with them over 20 years. As a full-time RVer, I do not have a physical address.  My broker advised that they will not accept the SKP Livingston address.  Has anyone else experienced this problem, particularly at Morgan Stanley?  My only option is to close my account.  And, there is a distinct possibility they will hold my funds until full verification is made according to their rigid requirements (which are more stringent than the US government).   I am not a lawyer, but it appears to me that financial institutions have work-around options to verify the identity of their customers.  I have passports, military id cards, VA cards, credit cards, birth certificate.  But, I might as well be living under a bridge as far as the Patriot Act is concerned.  

[TXiceman]

So far, Wells Fargo has not given us any problems with the Escapees address. 

 

Ken

[SWharton]

We have  a Morgan Account and are having no problems using the Escapees address.

[Twotoes]

The Patriot Act expired several years ago. Some financial institution still have an internal policy that mirrors the act. It seems like your institutions internal policy is one of them. They are very difficult to make changes. You may have to look for a new broker or bank. If you do decide to close your present accounts just have the funds wired to the new institution to avoid any delays in sending funds to a PMB. 

[Kirk W]

56 minutes ago, Waccamaw said:

My broker advised that they will not accept the SKP Livingston address.  Has anyone else experienced this problem, particularly at Morgan Stanley?

 

Call the Escapees business office and talk with them about this problem. It is one that they have dealt with many times over the years.

(936)327-8873

[Zulu]

1 hour ago, Waccamaw said:

As a full-time RVer, I do not have a physical address . . . My only option is to close my account. 

As part of the Patriot Act (which, by the way, is very much alive), you should be able to specify a "next of kin" or a "contact individual" (see p. 480, bottom right column in Anti-Money Laundering Programs).

If your broker hesitates or doesn't know, ask to speak with someone in the Compliance Department.

[Big5er]

1 hour ago, Twotoes said:

The Patriot Act expired several years ago.

 

36 minutes ago, Zulu said:

As part of the Patriot Act (which, by the way, is very much alive).

It would appear that you are both correct...to an extent, and both wrong.

Following a lack of Congressional approval, parts of the Patriot Act expired on June 1, 2015. With the passage of the USA Freedom Act on June 2, 2015, the expired parts were restored and renewed through 2019.

[Roy & Ann]

I had the same problem with Morgan Stanley.  They allowed me to use my sister-in-law as an address.  Had to have her fill out some paperwork.  All correspondence goes thru the internet or to my PMB.

[TXiceman]

You could just threaten to move everything to another broker.

Ken

 

[Kirk W]

12 hours ago, Roy & Ann said:

I had the same problem with Morgan Stanley.

 

23 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:

Call the Escapees business office and talk with them about this problem. It is one that they have dealt with many times over the years.

(936)327-8873

 

[dartmouth01]

Amex did this to me, but so far no other credit institutions have asked.  Gave them my MIL's address, and things are still fine.

[RamblingRozeta]

I was wondering what the outcome was here. Were you able to keep your Morgan Stanley account using your PMB address? Or did you have to move the account? Is there another way?

I am facing a similar issue. I do not know anyone in my domicile state to provide a physical address; my relatives are all in other states. I supplied them as a physical address but the tax implications are the issue.

Thanks.

[SWharton]

We have had a Morgan acct. for years with the PMB address.

[RamblingRozeta]

4 hours ago, SWharton said:

We have had a Morgan acct. for years with the PMB address.

I am a new customer. Using it as a mailing address is not a problem. They asked for a physical address and used that as the legal address which is what is used for tax reporting.

Since I don't know anyone in my domicile state, that's the problem.

Was wondering if the OP resolved the issue.

[SWharton]

Your PMB is your legal address for tax reporting and everything else.

[docj]

7 hours ago, RamblingRozeta said:

I am a new customer. Using it as a mailing address is not a problem. They asked for a physical address and used that as the legal address which is what is used for tax reporting.

Since I don't know anyone in my domicile state, that's the problem.

Was wondering if the OP resolved the issue.

I don't believe there's anything in the law that requires that the physical address you use has to be in the same State as the one in which you are claiming residency in. All that is required under the "Know your customer" banking rules (and the Patriot Act before that) is that there be some address through which it is possible to get a notification to you. In the past we've occasionally used a child's address; now we use our TX property even for issues relating to our SD residency.

That having been said, it sometimes is the case that the "call center person" you are speaking with may not have been well trained on this nuance.  In that case I would recommend you escalate the call to a supervisor or simply call back so you can speak to another person.

Edited January 5, 2020 by docj

[Zulu]

2 hours ago, docj said:

That having been said, it sometimes is the case that the "call center person" you are speaking with may not have been well trained on this nuance.  In that case I would recommend you escalate the call to a supervisor or simply call back so you can speak to another person.

Or ask to speak with someone in the Compliance Department.

[Kirk W]

4 hours ago, docj said:

All that is required under the "Know your customer" banking rules (and the Patriot Act before that) is that there be some address through which it is possible to get a notification to you. I

I believe that the rule is to enable the to locate you, if they feel the need.

[RamblingRozeta]

10 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

I believe that the rule is to enable the to locate you, if they feel the need.

Which is fine, I provided by daughter's address. But they used that as legal address which is the wrong state.

What I am really asking is does anyone who uses Morgan Stanley have the PMB address as both their legal and mailing address? You can see both when you look at your profile.

[RamblingRozeta]

4 hours ago, docj said:

I don't believe there's anything in the law that requires that the physical address you use has to be in the same State as the one in which you are claiming residency in. All that is required under the "Know your customer" banking rules (and the Patriot Act before that) is that there be some address through which it is possible to get a notification to you. In the past we've occasionally used a child's address; now we use our TX property even for issues relating to our SD residency.

That having been said, it sometimes is the case that the "call center person" you are speaking with may not have been well trained on this nuance.  In that case I would recommend you escalate the call to a supervisor or simply call back so you can speak to another person.

I'm using a Financial Advisor and he is working on it. Just asking here because anxious to know if Morgan Stanley will allow it. The address kicked out as a computer exception about a month after account was created. I provided a physical address and they changed the legal address on the account from the PMB to it instead.

[Barbaraok]

I would be on the phone yelling at them, or at the Financial Advisor, for screwing up taxes and that they had 1 day to get it straightened out or my money walks.    I don't understand why people put up with crappy companies when there are other companies that want the business.   

[Sehc]

Each institution is free to interpret the rule as they see it. With the minimum required by Government Regs.

[RamblingRozeta]

Closing the loop for my situation with Morgan Stanley to obtain an exception to use my PMB address. My issue was the legal address stored is a relative's address that is in my previous resident state. Morgan Stanley will not allow a PMB as a legal address. My concerns were about tax reporting  of dividends, interest and RMDs to the wrong state.

Morgan Stanley would not make an exception to use the PMB as the legal address. However, they indicated that they do not report RMDs to states unless there is state withholding. All mailings are to the PMB address (they keep a legal address separate from a mailing address). The mailing address appears on the tax forms.They also acknowledge that the address stored in the legal address field is a relative's address and not my domicile/legal address.

I have decided to stay with Morgan Stanley. CPAs advise that even if there was tax reporting to the state, I do not need to file since I am not a resident. Furthermore, I believe I have made all the necessary steps to change domiciles, so I do not think I will have any issues.

 

-