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Use flashing LED lights as rodent deterrent


suzwoodard

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19 minutes ago, mptjelgin said:

................................  Having volunteered at several National Wildlife Refuges where volunteers, interns, and overnight staff were strongly encouraged to place lighting beneath trailers and vehicles, as well as leaving hoods open as a defense against packrats, I have seen evidence to the contrary.  Folks who were lax about lighting or chose not to do so were much more likely to have packrat issues than those that did.  That being said, I know one fellow that did the lights consistently and still got a packrat under the hood of his truck, and others who didn't use lights that did not.  But over several years, and lots of folks, there was a strong trend toward lights helping. 

These refuges did things to manage the population density, including keeping attractive vegetation trimmed back from the sites, not allowing bird feeders (spilled seed) , etc. So the overall "load" of critters was likely lower than you are experiencing.  It sounds like you are in a park where a perfect storm of habitat has resulted in a very robust population of packrats, and there may be little that can be done to deter them.  It is likely that they are well habituated to the situation as well so "typical" deterrents may not have the desired effect. 

We volunteered for several months at a State Wildlife Management Area where the volunteer site hadn't been used in several years and was overgrown, and it was crawling with packrats. We did a lot of trapping at that site and got them under control, and I think that was necessary. 

But just as my experience doesn't prove that lights work, yours doesn't prove that they don't.  It's just not that simple. 

Just because you "were strongly encouraged" doesn't mean it works....BTW.. opening hoods DOES WORK.

I placed game cameras under trailers with lights and without lights.  I got pictures of pack rats strolling underneath the trailers with lights without a concern in the world.  Get a wildlife camera...their cheap.  Stick it under your trailer.  See what you find.

View the video link I posted.  BTW...that LED flashing light in the video is "VERY BRIGHT".  It is a 5000 degrees Kelvin and the camera is an INFRA-RED camera at the lower end of the visual spectrum.  So that is why is appears so faint.  Did you notice the Pack Rat reaction to the light??

Nope, my park does not have a "perfect storm of habitat".  It has a "perfect storm of panic about pack rats".  I set traps around the park as well as camera's.  I trapped pack rats ONLY in three locations.  One resident did trap pack rats in another location.  ALL FOUR sites were good habitat for pack rats.  Yet, many people in the park have those stupid lights endangering their health!!!!

IT IS ALL about habitat...manage the habitat. 

Want more pack rats in southwest Arizona, plant cholla and prickly pear cactus next to each other. 

Want less pack rates....do the equivalent of opening the hood.  No place to nest and little food to be found.

Wildlife cameras are fun and cheap....you can buy three for a $100!!!   Stick em under your lighted trailer.  Stick them under my RV that is unlighted. 

You will learn quite a bit night after night.

Vladimr Steblina

Retired Forester...exploring the public lands.

usbackroads.blogspot.com

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11 hours ago, mptjelgin said:

Having volunteered at several National Wildlife Refuges where volunteers, interns, and overnight staff were strongly encouraged to place lighting beneath trailers and vehicles, as well as leaving hoods open as a defense against packrats, I have seen evidence to the contrary.  Folks who were lax about lighting or chose not to do so were much more likely to have packrat issues than those that did.  That being said, I know one fellow that did the lights consistently and still got a packrat under the hood of his truck, and others who didn't use lights that did not.  But over several years, and lots of folks, there was a strong trend toward lights helping. 

While there isn't much that is 100% effective, my experience has been the same as yours. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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43 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

While there isn't much that is 100% effective, my experience has been the same as yours. 

I imagine that the effectiveness of lighting depends on the circumstances. As you have experienced the RV sites in NWR's are generally surrounded by large amounts of good, dark habitat and plenty of natural predators. Lighting beneath trailers and vehicles may be enough to dissuade Woodrats from regularly entering or attempting to inhabit those areas. 

In the SKP lot referenced above the situation is no doubt different, and lights may have little effect on animal behavior. 

I do know that 2 months of observation in a single location doesn't settle the issue once and for all. Nor do my several years in half a dozen locations with Woodrat populations.  But many biologists and maintenance personnel at various NWR's endorse the idea of lights as a deterrent, and my experience aligns with theirs. 

Mark & Teri

2021 Grand Designs Imagine 2500RL, 2019 Ford F-350

Mark & Teri's Travels

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6 hours ago, mptjelgin said:

But many biologists and maintenance personnel at various NWR's endorse the idea of lights as a deterrent, and my experience aligns with theirs. 

I can buy the concept that lights work in typically dark areas but not in places where there are lots of other lights. That would make everyone posting here correct. As is often the case the answer is: it depends. :)

Linda

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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I heard that using a rope light around your RV to keep out mice is an old wives tail. I purchased a string of rope lights and have been using them for the last year. As opposed to years past where I did get several mice inside my RV, I have not had a single one since using the rope light. I may be just lucky or maybe it does work. 

2015 Itasca Ellipse 42QD

2017 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Hard Rock Edition

2021 Harley Street Glide Special 

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8 hours ago, mptjelgin said:

.........I do know that 2 months of observation in a single location doesn't settle the issue once and for all. Nor do my several years in half a dozen locations with Woodrat populations.  But many biologists and maintenance personnel at various NWR's endorse the idea of lights as a deterrent, and my experience aligns with theirs. 

I have a strong bias against wildlife biologists.....they wrote the recovery plan for the Northern Spotted Owl and now it is going extinct!!!  I did get to write a minority opinion...that was ignored.  Because wildlife biologists and maintenance personnel in most cases believe in old wives tales.  It is easier to agree with a majority opinion, than to search for the truth.

Good science.   Apply the scientific method and be critical of your findings.

Lights, in my opinion, and limited observations do not work.  They do not work in the opinion of others that have tried doing somewhat controlled studies of lights. 

Just because you put out lights and don't have pack rats doesn't prove anything!!!  It is much more complex than that!!! 

My problem with lights is two-folds. 

Pack rats are rodents.  They carry infectious diseases.  They are a human health hazard.

Putting out lights......still leaves the Pack Rats around.  They are still carrying infectious diseases and they are still a human health hazard. IF the lights work...and they don't all you have done is protected your wiring in your truck.  Which you can do by simply opening the hood at night.

Night-time lights, however, ARE a human health hazard.  My doctor recommended black-out curtains, etc. for health reasons over 20 years ago.

https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-adopts-guidance-reduce-harm-high-intensity-street-lights

https://www.ama-assn.org/sites/ama-assn.org/files/corp/media-browser/public/about-ama/councils/Council Reports/council-on-science-public-health/a16-csaph2.pdf

https://thesleepdoctor.com/2016/10/31/5-serious-medical-conditions-linked-nighttime-light-exposure/?cn-reloaded=1

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23953362/

The third article is "popular" press.  The other three are rather technical.  BUT worth reading for the health risk of night-time lights.

So putting out lights for PACK RATS.....lets the Pack Rats reproduce and continue being a human health hazard, but worse yet....the lights to protect the soy harnesses in your trucks is a ALSO a health hazard to YOU.

Doubling up on your health hazards.

Vladimr Steblina

Retired Forester...exploring the public lands.

usbackroads.blogspot.com

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I'll have to agree that lights on constantly is a waste .

But , if those lights are very bright and only flash on when movement is detected . That might be a decent scare tactic for the little critters . 

When we lived in a house with a shed out back , skunks loved to burrow under the shed to homestead . We tried different things from chemicals to loud music through the floor , but , we had the most fun and success when I mounted a motion detector activated 100 watt spot light directly over their entry hole . As soon as a head would pop out the light would flash on . That would happen a number of times . Then when we knew they were out and about , I laid about 16" of cement all around the edge of the shed . It was built on skids to appease ordnance . 

Anyway , the cement kept them away , but , the light experiment added a degree of fun . 

Goes around , comes around .

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