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D - Ring location


alan0043
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Hi Everyone,

I have a question about where the best location for D-rings should be. I am working on the deck of the truck and need d-rings. I think I have and idea where the location should be but I want to make sure before any welding is done. The plan is to use a total of 8 d-rings or 4 d-rings per tire track. Do you place the d-rings in the center line of the tire tread or to the outside of the tire ? Does anyone have a picture or too of their d-rings holding their tires in place. 

All input is welcomed,
Al

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Take a moment out of your busy day and search up a good sized truck stop in your area. Wander over to a newer car hauler with a Cottrell setup, a stinger with 3-4 cars on the tractor and a trailer with 4-5 cars. Take a look at how almost all manufacturers are now requiring their cars shipped new from the plant using what Cottrell calls a "soft-tie" system. Very simple. There are holes in the deck ramps that a simple hook goes into in line with the tire. The strap goes over the tire to a hole on the other side. No need to weld anything permanently, a few strategically place holes does the trick. Want to change your mind later? Just add a few more holes. Deck not that strong? Put a little reinforcement material under. 

This is the page from the web site Carl mentioned above. 

http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Towing-Auto-Hauling/Wheel-Straps-for-Auto-Hauling/Car-Carrier-Strap-w-Swivel-Hooks-Adj-Rubber-Blocks-Ratchet

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Hi Everyone,

I forgot to mention maybe one of the most important pieces to the puzzle is that I want to carry two different styles of vehicles on the deck of the truck. It would be only one vehicle at a time. The vehicles that I would like to carry is a Smart car or a Polaris RZR (utv).

I whet thru a truck stop today looking for the car haulers that have a Cottrell set-up and had no luck finding one right now. I just might need to do a Google search to see what this set-up looks like.

I want the tie down system to be flexible so I can carry different vehicles.

Please keep the input coming,
Al

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Alan

I looked at the above suggested links & the 1 thing that struck me was the large handles on the ratchets.  Make sure you have enough room for them when/if you use them.  I couldn't use them with my Smart.  I ended up with "E-Track" and the related ratchet system.  I even needed to fabricate parts to make them work with the Smart.  I'm parked right now so I can't send out a picture but wanted to let you know to make sure you have a look at something that would work for you.  The "E-Track" probably isn't what you want for different sizes of vehicles but a similar ratchet style that takes a wrench & not the large handle to tighten could serve you better.  Many of "Gregg's" style of beds use these style of ratchets. Memory tells me I got them from "Etrailer."

Todd

 

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Check these out:

http://www.snappinturtle.com/kits/low-profile-2-wheel-bonnet-kit-e-track/

http://www.snappinturtle.com/race-car/low-profile-tire-block-strap-w/ratchet/

Either style would work on a car with tight confines like a smart.  Does not have to be for e-track, if they don't have a configuration you want in stock they will build it for you.  So dream up your ultimate strap set up.  No skin in the game, just a buddy of mine.

Have you thought about aircraft track set flush with the bed?  There was a bed build on here a while back (drawing a blank on the name) where he built a custom bed with aircraft track every few feet.  tie down anything, anywhere.

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On 12/8/2017 at 8:31 AM, beyerjf said:

Take a moment out of your busy day and search up a good sized truck stop in your area. Wander over to a newer car hauler with a Cottrell setup, a stinger with 3-4 cars on the tractor and a trailer with 4-5 cars. Take a look at how almost all manufacturers are now requiring their cars shipped new from the plant using what Cottrell calls a "soft-tie" system. Very simple. There are holes in the deck ramps that a simple hook goes into in line with the tire. The strap goes over the tire to a hole on the other side. No need to weld anything permanently, a few strategically place holes does the trick. Want to change your mind later? Just add a few more holes. Deck not that strong? Put a little reinforcement material under. 

This is the page from the web site Carl mentioned above. 

http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Towing-Auto-Hauling/Wheel-Straps-for-Auto-Hauling/Car-Carrier-Strap-w-Swivel-Hooks-Adj-Rubber-Blocks-Ratchet

 

Jeff - With the straps shown in your link, if you put the hook through a plain hole in the deck, aren't you just tip-loading the hook, which is a sure way to have a failure?

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It is the standard tie down system for all new car haulers for the last 5-10 years or longer. They wanted to get away from attaching directly to the chassis and loading the suspension. If you have a chance to see one in action the hook and the size of the hole prevents the tip from taking the weight. And some of these car haulers will put the last car on the last basket and tip them to almost a 45 deg angle with straps on 4 wheels like I describe. I have never heard of one moving or falling off. 

 

This is one of the more popular trucking forums on the interweb. Just drivers posting whatever so take that into consideration when reading the posts. But a little insight into what those guys are concerned with.

https://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckingindustryforum/forums/car-hauler-and-auto-carrier-trucking-forum.393/

 

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Alan, If you send me your e-mail again, I'll send pics of the chocks with the ratchet.  Also the track system for the new 2017 Smart.

With the old 2006, the flush mount D rings were welded right into the deck, behind the front and back wheels which made  loading difficult due to they flip only one way.  Which means if they are flipped up to tie the car down and you didn't flip them flat, the rear wheels would drive over the upturned D rings.  Rather like hyperextending your fingers.

I found with the new car that having the track slightly outside the track of the car works best for me.  I've got the hook retainer tied back with zap straps do I just clip the hook into the deck ring.

My chocks as you will see have the ratchet built in.  There is a 1 1/8" nut to tighten down the strap/cage.  The 1 -1/8" nut needs to be toward the outside of the car.  You can have the chocks  reversed but you will be bashing the truck deck then the air dam of the underside of the car with the ratchet.

Using E track would work.  I'm familiar with the product having used it in my cargo trailer.  The problem would be, if you drove the car on it, the tie downs would have to go on the track after the car. Depressing the spring  on the E track clip while reaching around the back of the tire and clipping it into the track could be a challenge unless you are really tall.  You wouldn't want to drive over the clips if already in the track.

The new car is tied down using the track with the hanging jeep.  I added fender washers under the deck and the D rings stay on the track.  The tire cage clips on after the car is loaded.  The Manufacturer is in Calgary, I think.  I spoke to him and he recommended the bigger rings.  The bigger rings have a  third track contact point rather than 2 which comes with the track so there is an xtra cost. 

In my case, I researched this to death, bit the bullet and went this route.  This setup works for me.  I've never looked back.

I also added a trailer hitch on the car.  Pics are around of that. This hitch method can be done.  It goes thru the rear bumper not under.  There IS plenty of meat back there to put in bolts with nuts behind, we did it. The car is driven off and winched on in reverse.  Ramps are blocked up on the dirt end and a pce of 1/8" angle iron dropped into the ramp hinge to reduce the breakover angle.

It's been a while since posting pics here but I'll take a look at the instructions again to see if pics can be posted in the am, if not send me e-mail and I'll send you enough to answer your questions.

 

R

Edited by rdickinson
mistake
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On the chocks: It is important that they be low enough not to interfere with the various versions of the cars....some have very low air dams. Basically, you want the chock to be just tall enough to hold the lashing winch. When I originally designed the lashing winch-on-chock concept it worked but turned out to be too high for the newer cars, which have lower rubber air dam extensions. Also, I ALWAYS use the lashing winches that use the socket - NOT the bar - for tightening. Why? As mentioned above, the socket one makes it easier to take up the slack. It does have the downside of requiring a socket to use. Everything is a trade-off, but in practice the socket one proves more successful IMO. And I've used them all.

Jeff's suggestion to use the keyed-slot tie-down system is actually the best solution if you have no boxes under the car area. We always have ramp storage boxes there, thus it turns out to be problematic to do....water into the boxes is a big issue. Thus the reason we use the bolt-down custom chocks with the integrated lashing winch.

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1 hour ago, Jack Mayer said:

On the chocks: It is important that they be low enough not to interfere with the various versions of the cars....some have very low air dams. Basically, you want the chock to be just tall enough to hold the lashing winch. When I originally designed the lashing winch-on-chock concept it worked but turned out to be too high for the newer cars, which have lower rubber air dam extensions. Also, I ALWAYS use the lashing winches that use the socket - NOT the bar - for tightening. Why? As mentioned above, the socket one makes it easier to take up the slack. It does have the downside of requiring a socket to use. Everything is a trade-off, but in practice the socket one proves more successful IMO. And I've used them all.

Jeff's suggestion to use the keyed-slot tie-down system is actually the best solution if you have no boxes under the car area. We always have ramp storage boxes there, thus it turns out to be problematic to do....water into the boxes is a big issue. Thus the reason we use the bolt-down custom chocks with the integrated lashing winch.

Hi Jack,

I am glad that you brought up the lashing winch. I never thought about a piece of equipment like that. If my memory serves me right, I remember seeing pictures of your lashing winch on your chock's. Can you post a picture or too of your lashing winch with the chock. Right now I am thinking that idea could work for me with the help of an idler fitting. The bed of the truck is going to need chock's to help keep any vehicle in place. I was doing some looking at Mac's web site on hold down equipment.

Al

Edited by alan0043
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On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 6:17 AM, SuiteSuccess said:

Depends.  Are you using tire webs (baskets) or straps with tread blocks?  With both, I would suggest middle of the tread but with webs some straps come laterally.

http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Towing-Auto-Hauling/Wheel-Nets-Auto-Car-Tie-Downs

Son uses wheel straps to haul his mustang works great but he runs into clearance problems handle on ratchet is to large do they make a similar product for low clearance cars. Dose not have enough room in front of car for ratchet .so ratchet has to go behind front tire rather in front of it.

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Hopefully this link will work to show you how some of us are talking about not using a ratchet system because there is no room to ratchet.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/heromakers/8917183714/in/album-72157633864902368/

Well, if you click on the link, you will see it placed on the chocks.  Yes, we still like it that way.

As Jack mentioned, a lot less clearance on the front of the car, and with the newer smarts, my chocks would have to be lowered.  But you can do it and still that the lashing winch on it.

Edited by HERO Maker
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Here are some pics and as thorough an explanation as possible.  More time than you can possibly imagine goes into planning and dry fitting .  A lot of things can't be planned for and have to be dealt with when found.  Hopefully before things get bolted or welded in the wrong place.  I'll explain what you're looking at and the good or bad points about it or them.

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Edited by rdickinson
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OK, I'm up and running with the pics.  Maybe a bit bigger than required but it is what it is.

First pic is of stock chock as they came with deck for the Gen 1.  The passengers rear tire and rt side of the car stayed in the same location relative to the fairing.  The 2017 is longer so the rear chock needed a plate under to reach out beyond the deck.  The rear tire sits on the plate so that eliminates unloading from the passengers side 'cus I can't get the plate and chock out.  I'm Ok with that, it's a non issue.

You will also see the old tiedowns in the deck.  They were directly behind the 4 wheels and having had 2 smashed wrists, reaching around a corner to hook on the tire baskets was not easy.  The new car tiedowns are on the rail.  The rail attachment pcs have 3 points of contact with the rail.  The smaller rail attachment pcs have 2.  I deferred to the suppliers suggestion, bit the bullet and got the bigger ones.  The stock rings were replaced with the oval rings shown in the pic.

The drivers rear tie just misses the deck hatch, barely.  The current tiedowns are mounted outboard of the car but not by too much.

The holes in the added pce of deck plate are slotted and wider than the bolt so the chock can be skewed if the car is loaded on crooked.

Old smart wheels were 22" diameter, new wheels are  24"  so tire basket need to be modified.  Another non issue.

Because the 17 is longer than the 06 the A frame needed to be extended to stand off the side of the truck more.  I'll explain more about that if you want more info' cus there is a lot to come.

My A frame is a double, in my opinion the one jack had on his other truck would be more than adequate.

My A frame sockets stayed in the same location which means that with the  car being 5 or 6 "  wider than the 06, the pull point is 3" off center....another non issue.

Yes, I know the vinyl is peeling.  That's been dealt with.

The retainers on the hooks have been pulled back and held in place with 2  wire ties in an X shape.  I have no flexion in the right thumb and no means to depress the spring clip when hooking to the deck ring.

My A frame with the extensions is stored in the truck cab storage under the sleeper.  3 gallons of water and the roadside trianges call there home.

The original location where Herrin put it, buried it behind other stuff, all of which had to come out in order to retrieve the A frame.

More later if you want.

I can also walk you thru the process of loading pics once I've refigured how to do it myself again.

 

Let me know

R

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9 hours ago, alan0043 said:

Hi Roger,

I have sent you an e-mail. I hope it went thru. The reason that I say that is because I got an error message. 

Thank you for your offer of help.
Al 

PS; I am trying to learn how to use Google Chrome

Al,

My email is rogerjones218@gmail.  com

I am going to buy the straps , ditch the hand ratchets, us the binders on my tire chocks and it will work great, just thinking outside of the box, and I still can use the ratchets on my 2" straps that are worn out, or rusted up.

Rogetr

 

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Careful layout of chock position is required to get it optimal. When Marc and I designed the new chocks and layout so that we could accommodate both 451 and 453 while only moving ONE chock a little, it took us many days to design it. Including a live mockup with both styles of cars. Fortunately, it is now all in CAD.  We built at least five chocks to get the final product. But we are pretty happy with what we have at the moment. I was just working on a modified chock layout yesterday, so this is a timely thread. Eventually, we will make the chocks available for purchase for those that want to DIY, but for the moment we have our hands full.....

One of the keys to making life easy is to have slots in the chocks to adjust them for both slight angles, and fore/aft. This makes chocking the car correctly much easier. 

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