4x4ord Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, Kirk W said: You are also assuming that the goal is to keep the $1.3million intact so that the heirs get it when the owners die. I don't really have that concern. That amount of money would pay the owners $40/year for 32.5 years if it were kept in a shoebox with no return of any kind. Most people do not have that much concern about leaving money when they die. You're not taking into account inflation. $40k in 32.5 years is not going to buy you much. Back in 1973 when I was just a kid I witnessed a relatively young man retiring with $250,000. In 1973 a pretty decent house could be bought for $35000. Anyway inflation hit and he thought he was richer than he actually was. He ended up broke, divorced, back to work and bitter in no time. Or was it divorced, broke, back to work and bitter .... I don't remember the exact order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al F Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 16 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said: Everyone's perception of living "high" is quite different. 16 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said: NO...this is not true...you don't need $1,300,000 to have a $40,000 return. OK. So just what are the details to provide information to the people following this forum? Vague statements provide NO useful information. Prime example: how much money does one need to have to have a 90% assurance that you will not run out of money in 30 years of retirement, by taking out $40,000 (and adjusting for inflation) each year? Most financial planners give numbers like 3% to 5% withdrawal rates. These withdrawal rates many times means you will die with zero money in the account at exactly the year you planned for. Al & Sharon 2006 Winnebago Journey 36G 2020 Chevy Colorado Toad San Antonio, TX http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al F Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 8 hours ago, 4x4ord said: You're not taking into account inflation. $40k in 32.5 years is not going to buy you much. Back in 1973 when I was just a kid I witnessed a relatively young man retiring with $250,000. In 1973 a pretty decent house could be bought for $35000. Anyway inflation hit and he thought he was richer than he actually was. He ended up broke, divorced, back to work and bitter in no time. Or was it divorced, broke, back to work and bitter .... I don't remember the exact order. I have to go back to the old adage: "It is not how much money you have, it is what you do with the money you have that leads to success!" Taking $250K in 1973 and just spending it, not continuing earn some sort of income is a good example of what not to do. On the other hand, the couple who have the RV-Dreams website and blog quit the corporate world in 2005 with around $200K and started fulltimeing. Through hard work and dedication they have made a successful business out of the RV world. That includes their nest egg taking a nose dive in the great recession of 2008/2009. While they didn't provide their annual income from the corporate world, I would guess their combined income was well above $100K/year before going fulltime in an RV. Blog: https://rv-dreams.typepad.com/ Website: https://www.rv-dreams.com/ Al & Sharon 2006 Winnebago Journey 36G 2020 Chevy Colorado Toad San Antonio, TX http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 9 hours ago, 4x4ord said: You're not taking into account inflation. No, but neither was I taking into account any return on the money and I don't really advocate keeping your savings in a shoe box. The point is that as you get older most planners do advise beginning to spend down the total principle at least to some degree. Since I am now 76 years old, I don't expect to need an income 30 years from today so there is nothing unreasonable about beginning the process of spending down. We worked hard to add to our savings in our working years in order to retire early. We then did what was necessary to keep our budget low enough to avoid taking anything out of our invested funds in retirement until at 71 I started to be required by the IRS to take a portion out each year. Even then our fund has continued to grow but at a slower rate. We are currently looking at a lifestyle change in our near future that may cost all of the annual growth of our investments, or even a little more than that growth, but we didn't save that money to be able to leave it to our kids so if most of it is gone when we depart life, the fund has served its purpose. Both of my parents lived past the age of 90 but I feel quite comfortable in planning a process that would leave us broke by 110. Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Al F said: OK. So just what are the details to provide information to the people following this forum? Vague statements provide NO useful information. Prime example: how much money does one need to have to have a 90% assurance that you will not run out of money in 30 years of retirement, by taking out $40,000 (and adjusting for inflation) each year? Most financial planners give numbers like 3% to 5% withdrawal rates. These withdrawal rates many times means you will die with zero money in the account at exactly the year you planned for. For my own planning, I assume a 6% interest rate and a 3.5% withdrawal rate. While my withdrawal rate probably won't change much, I expect to beat 6% (Vanguard easy 3 fund portfolio) quite regularly so that's my worst case scenario. I've found a wonderful tool called Firecalc (there's other variations out there) that run a simulated retirement strategy as if you would need to withstand the worst ravages of inflation, the Great Depression, and every other financial calamity the US has seen since 1871. I figure that if my numbers can withstand that, then it is likely to withstand whatever might happen between now and the day I no longer have any need for your retirement funds. https://www.firecalc.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FL-JOE Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 Not to take the subject matter into a different direction, but..... Our union negotiated a different looking pension for us about 10 or 12 years prior to my retirement. Some of us were happy with it and some were not. It increased what we had to contribute to 12.75% each pay check. However, it also ensured us a 3% increase each year (compounded) on our pension check for life. So after almost 9 years of retirement my pension has increased $29,000 annually. That may sound like a lot of increase but it just keeps us even with the cost of living actually, or at least seems that way. Joe & Cindy Newmar 4369 Ventana Pulling 24' enclosed (Mini Cooper, Harley, 2 Kayaks) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4ord Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Kirk W said: No, but neither was I taking into account any return on the money and I don't really advocate keeping your savings in a shoe box. The point is that as you get older most planners do advise beginning to spend down the total principle at least to some degree. Since I am now 76 years old, I don't expect to need an income 30 years from today so there is nothing unreasonable about beginning the process of spending down. We worked hard to add to our savings in our working years in order to retire early. We then did what was necessary to keep our budget low enough to avoid taking anything out of our invested funds in retirement until at 71 I started to be required by the IRS to take a portion out each year. Even then our fund has continued to grow but at a slower rate. We are currently looking at a lifestyle change in our near future that may cost all of the annual growth of our investments, or even a little more than that growth, but we didn't save that money to be able to leave it to our kids so if most of it is gone when we depart life, the fund has served its purpose. Both of my parents lived past the age of 90 but I feel quite comfortable in planning a process that would leave us broke by 110. It sounds like you've got things figured out. I'm just about 56 and Ialthough we have ample saved up to retire on we have much to get figured out before I think about retiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertraveler Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 On 3/12/2019 at 11:11 AM, Kirk W said: I think that you may be over-optimistic about SS payments. I retired in 2000 at the age of 57 with a salary of about $22/hour. I began to draw SS at age 62 and get just about what she does reports. Those retiring before their full retirement age need to realize that Social Security payments are based on 35 years of work. I believe if you have less than 35 years paying into the system that zeros are included in the calculation. In many cases, the wages earned in later years are greater than those earned at the beginning of ones entry into the work force. I believe the annual estimate of benefits projects the latest years earnings to retirement age so it may over estimate the benefits to be payed if one retires early. There is also a reduction in benefits for each month that one retires before their full retirement age. This calculator from the Social Security Administration can be used to get a more realistic estimate of ones benefits if planning to retire early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbaraok Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 4 hours ago, Al F said: OK. So just what are the details to provide information to the people following this forum? Vague statements provide NO useful information. Prime example: how much money does one need to have to have a 90% assurance that you will not run out of money in 30 years of retirement, by taking out $40,000 (and adjusting for inflation) each year? Most financial planners give numbers like 3% to 5% withdrawal rates. These withdrawal rates many times means you will die with zero money in the account at exactly the year you planned for. You are assuming that the investments are not capable of generating greater than 3-5% return? I have to tell you that in todays world, if you aren't diversified with at least a small portion in something like small cap growth funds you will miss out on good returns. As for pulling SS early - best decision we ever made. That meant we didn't have to touch our IRAs until we reached 70 1/2, and those funds grew and grew. Our yearly RMD now exceeds the 'loss' by taking early retirement, and the funds just keep on growing. Barb & Dave O'Keeffe 2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandsys Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 4 hours ago, Barbaraok said: As for pulling SS early - best decision we ever made. That meant we didn't have to touch our IRAs until we reached 70 1/2, and those funds grew and grew. Our yearly RMD now exceeds the 'loss' by taking early retirement, and the funds just keep on growing. X2. Linda Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/ Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertraveler Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 6 hours ago, Barbaraok said: As for pulling SS early - best decision we ever made. That meant we didn't have to touch our IRAs until we reached 70 1/2, and those funds grew and grew. Our yearly RMD now exceeds the 'loss' by taking early retirement, and the funds just keep on growing. The intent of my post was not to discuss the merits or issues in taking SS early, but rather to explain why the benefit of someone who retired early may not be much more than someone who had lower wages. If I remember from other posts, you both had pensions and employer paid health insurance after retirement. Many who depend on SS as a major part of their retirement income do not have those benefits. Everyone's circumstances are different and if one does not fully understand all the rules and the implications of them, the results can be less than desired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 11 hours ago, 4x4ord said: It sounds like you've got things figured out. I'm just about 56 and Ialthough we have ample saved up to retire on we have much to get figured out before I think about retiring. I hope so but life has no guarantees. I believe that the key is to remain flexible in all long-term plans. No question that there is some degree of luck involved in most aspects of life planning but those who plan tend to be better off. To me the most difficult part of early retirement planning today s health care, which we were fortunate to have been covered by my previous employer as part of my retirement package. Recent changes in the laws have made that a far bigger challenge. Ii retired at 57. 10 hours ago, Barbaraok said: As for pulling SS early - best decision we ever made. That meant we didn't have to touch our IRAs until we reached 70 1/2, and those funds grew and grew. Our yearly RMD now exceeds the 'loss' by taking early retirement, and the funds just keep on growing. X3+! Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4ord Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 32 minutes ago, Kirk W said: I hope so but life has no guarantees. I believe that the key is to remain flexible in all long-term plans. No question that there is some degree of luck involved in most aspects of life planning but those who plan tend to be better off. To me the most difficult part of early retirement planning today s health care, which we were fortunate to have been covered by my previous employer as part of my retirement package. Recent changes in the laws have made that a far bigger challenge. Ii retired at 57. X3+! I'm from Canada so our health care is covered. I've got two things keeping me from retiring: 1st I still enjoy working and don't want to retire..... I guess I need to develop more interests outside of work. The second is that I have a business that some of my kids think they are interested in. In order to get them involved in the business I will likely want to work with them for at least a few years before retiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandsys Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 53 minutes ago, 4x4ord said: The second is that I have a business that some of my kids think they are interested in. In order to get them involved in the business I will likely want to work with them for at least a few years before retiring. Excellent! I hope that works out for you. My experience is if they are saying, "yes but not yet", they are really saying, "No", but I don't want to hurt your feelings so I'll say, "yes." I hope that's not true for you and your kids. Linda Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/ Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 14 hours ago, Black said: For my own planning, I assume a 6% interest rate and a 3.5% withdrawal rate. While my withdrawal rate probably won't change much, I expect to beat 6% (Vanguard easy 3 fund portfolio) quite regularly so that's my worst case scenario. I've found a wonderful tool called Firecalc (there's other variations out there) that run a simulated retirement strategy as if you would need to withstand the worst ravages of inflation, the Great Depression, and every other financial calamity the US has seen since 1871. I figure that if my numbers can withstand that, then it is likely to withstand whatever might happen between now and the day I no longer have any need for your retirement funds. https://www.firecalc.com/ Thanks for the link. I had never seen this retirement calculator before. It is quite interesting. I’m having some fun playing with different scenarios and seeing how they would perform based on history. 2000 Kenworth T2000 w/ Cummins N14 and autoshift 2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard 2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan 2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage) 2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage)My First Solar Install ThreadMy Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the buildMy MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet! chadheiser.com West Coast HDT Rally Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnoxSwift Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 There are a TON of great links in this thread...thank you all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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