noteven Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 In the course of getting the toyhauler ready for snowbird season I discovered a line voltage short to the trailer chassis / body. Trailer: Carriage C-Force 39SV2 Shore power: Marine type 50 amp connector with detachable cord. Onan 5500 generator Situation: When connected to shore power, I measure 120v touching the test meter probe to the checker plate aluminum on the front drop of the trailer with the negative probe stuck in the damp soil beside the trailer. Tested both 50 amp cord with 50 to 30 to 15 adapter, and my 50 amp to 15 amp adapter. With both cords the stray voltage is present. When disconnected from shore power and generator is running no stray volatge is detected at the same location. When 12volt only no stray voltage is detected. Best ideas where to start fixing? Thanks "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSeas Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 Check this out...... http://noshockzone.org/rv-electrical-safety-part-iv-–-hot-skin/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted September 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 35 minutes ago, MrSeas said: Check this out...... http://noshockzone.org/rv-electrical-safety-part-iv-–-hot-skin/ Will do thank you "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted September 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 MrSeas - it appears the polarity is reversed at the seldom used receptacle at the private residence I'm at may be the issue. Thanks again for the link. "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLOY Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 What do you get when testing each leg (to ground) in the receptacle that the shore power cord would be plugged into..... ......looks like you found the issue faster than I could type 2011 Cameo 34SB3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big5er Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 Ok, stupid question.....They make polarity testers/surge protectors. For those times when you only have 30amp power at the pedestal, would this still work using a 30amp adapter? Or do you need TWO of these, one in 30amp and one in 50amp? MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~ 2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 2014 smart Fortwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted September 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, J-T said: What do you get when testing each leg (to ground) in the receptacle that the shore power cord would be plugged into..... ......looks like you found the issue faster than I could type If you look at the article MrSeas posted the link to, I am getting 120v at the wrong side of the 15 amp receptacle. I'm at a private residence connected to 15 amp extension cord service to supply maintenance power for running furnace, charging batteries etc... "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted September 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Big5er said: Ok, stupid question.....They make polarity testers/surge protectors. For those times when you only have 30amp power at the pedestal, would this still work using a 30amp adapter? Or do you need TWO of these, one in 30amp and one in 50amp? Me interested in the answer too.... "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big5er Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 1 minute ago, noteven said: Me interested in the answer too.... I would hate to have to buy two of those, but then again, I don't wanna blow anything up. I currently have a cheap, plug in, meter that plugs into a wall outlet but I think finding out at the pedestal would be better. MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~ 2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 2014 smart Fortwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted September 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/testing.htm "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldjohnt Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 HOT SKIN is one of the most hazardous conditions in the RV world. Your barefoot grandchild standing on wet ground touches the RV !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Id start by FIRST insuring the wiring and polarity is correct at the service outlet (no reversals !!!),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,And if so, then insure any cords and their plugs and receptacles and/or adapters are all wired correct (again no reversals) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,And if so then the incoming wiring at the RV main distribution panel is correct,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Then insure in the RV main panel the Neutral Buss and Equipment Ground Busses are separate and electrically insulated and isolated from each other,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Then insure the panels frame and the RV iron frame is bonded to the Equipment Ground Buss BUT NOT THE NEUTRAL...........Then insure there's no hot line shorts perhaps getting to the RV iron frame by a faulty electric hot water heater or other appliance even though such a low enough resistance short should trip the breaker if all else is correct. I "preach" electrical safety on here time to time because that was a major part of my lifes career, even if some think in certain situations or NEC violations I've addressed in the past, the risk is so low or there's only a small chance of a problem they choose to ignore it ITS YOUR LIFE AT RISK !!!!!! Sounds like some good advice above and you're already on the right track KEEP SAFE, CURE THAT HOT SKIN CONDITION..... PS a 50 amp tester which tests for BOTH hot 120 volt legs and Neutral at the source will be adequate UP TO THAT POINT although there can still be problems or reversals downstream in plugs or receptacles or adapters or panel etc !!!! John T Longgggggggggg retired electrical power distribution design engineer and rusty so trust the NEC over me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 9 hours ago, Big5er said: For those times when you only have 30amp power at the pedestal, would this still work using a 30amp adapter? Or do you need TWO of these, one in 30amp and one in 50amp? Nothing stupid about that question at all. The answer is yes, as long as your 50a/30 adapter is properly wired. While mine was a Surge Guard product, I used it all of the time, even when using a 30a supply and now that we have downsized and travel in a 30a RV I use a 30a line protector and with 30a/50a adapter and they do work that way also. Quote I currently have a cheap, plug in, meter that plugs into a wall outlet but I think finding out at the pedestal would be better. 2 I always use a line protection device but I also carry one of the outlet checking devices as well. After spending 40 years doing electrical repair work for a living, I prefer to be sure. The importance of the inside one is that while the line monitor protects you from issues caused outside of your RV, it does nothing for things which can happen inside. A ground connection coming loose in one outlet in a long string of them will take away the ground from all others. Using your small one will tell you if that happens and helps to trace the problem to its source. Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 Big5er, I like one that has a test button for the GFI outlets also, but most of those don't have the voltmeter. The No Shock Zone has a lot of good information on it and is worth the time to read, even for most "experts." Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted September 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 Situation resolved without injury. And our winner is.... MrSeas - With honorable mentions to: J-T and John T Longggggggg - Confirmed the service outlet had reversed polarity and corrected. I had parked and plugged the trailer in to this 15 amp service to have lights and charge the batteries, test fans etc. I have been wearing rubber soled shoes and have a thick rubber mat on the ground at the entrance steps. I leaned a ladder on it's side up against the aluminum drop front of the trailer, while wearing rubber shoes and heard a "tick" as the ladder touched the bodywork and received a pretty good tingle shock to the hand... As Mr Longgggg said above - barefoot on the damp ground would not have been so minor.... Thanks for the help everyone. If someone with expertise wanted to post diagrams of the correct way to confirm polarity is correct at 15, 30, and 50 amp service plugs with a test meter - that might make a nice addition to the plug devices shown above? "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldjohnt Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 Congratulations, you callin me LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG lol I "resemble" that remark. As BOTH an Engineer and an Attorney its just in my DNA I cant help myself............................ Best wishes PS this was already posted by a gentleman above, it shows polarity http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/testing.htm John T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 12 hours ago, noteven said: If someone with expertise wanted to post diagrams of the correct way to confirm polarity is correct at 15, 30, and 50 amp service plugs with a test meter - that might make a nice addition to the plug devices shown above? I don't know of an easy to use diagram but I do suggest this article from the No Shock Zone which explains things very well. Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted September 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Perfect thanks Kirk "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted September 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 12 hours ago, oldjohnt said: Congratulations, you callin me LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG lol I "resemble" that remark. As BOTH an Engineer and an Attorney its just in my DNA I cant help myself............................ Best wishes PS this was already posted by a gentleman above, it shows polarity http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/testing.htm John T No offence intended I was just fun in' with how you wrote your name. Always enjoy your posts on "current affairs" ok I'll quit now "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldjohnt Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 11 minutes ago, noteven said: No offence intended I was just fun in' with how you wrote your name. Always enjoy your posts on "current affairs" None taken not even, I also enjoy teasing and fun'in with all the fine gents on here. A great group of guys all willing to help and I try my best to do the same as often as I can. Thanks for the kind words. That nickname "John T" was given to me yearssssssssssss ago and it just stuck Best wishes and God Bless John T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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