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Goinbigger

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3 hours ago, noteven said:

The OP asked about Montana LLC here ^

Actually he suggested it and I said I would look into it. 

I did look into it and it is entirely too sketchy for me to even consider. If it was"completely legal" it wouldn't have so much controversy surrounding it.

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I am sure I could just go on, but either way, I am not doing it.

Besides, I don't plan on buying anything near new. Probably $40k max. And don't plan on buying it from a dealer. Mn taxes and registration is through the roof, part of why I am leaving the state. ID is much easier to register the thing, I don't even have to make it into an RV, it's just like registering a pickup truck. I wish I could have it to pull the trailer out there when I move, but it will just have to wait.

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11 hours ago, Shifted said:

I am glad that you will never post on this subject again.  Shew, some people just don't want to learn anything new, lol.

 

Lol, actually you might want to learn something new yourself? A law enforcement officer politely informed you of the law and you chastise him? WOW. It's his job to know the law. I bet he and you step before a judge on the matter you wouldn't be too pleased with the results, but I bet you might learn something.

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17 minutes ago, Goinbigger said:

Lol, actually you might want to learn something new yourself? A law enforcement officer politely informed you of the law and you chastise him? WOW. It's his job to know the law. I bet he and you step before a judge on the matter you wouldn't be too pleased with the results, but I bet you might learn something.

;)

 

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8 hours ago, Goinbigger said:

Lol, actually you might want to learn something new yourself? A law enforcement officer politely informed you of the law and you chastise him? WOW. It's his job to know the law. I bet he and you step before a judge on the matter you wouldn't be too pleased with the results, but I bet you might learn something.

Or....I may be in a stronger position on this topic, and in court, than you are assuming.

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Of the links that you posted:

  • One states that the courts agree that it is legal in Louisiana.
  • One is an opinion post by an attorney who just says you may have trouble with insurance if you lie to them.  So...don't lie to your insurance carrier.
  • One is a thread about someone who got caught for income tax evasion in Minnesota and then lots of people piled on with opinions on the topic of owning a car with a Montana LLC (not income tax evasion) but no facts.
  • The last is about people evading taxes.  It sounds like, from the article, that Colorado has tax evasion laws that were violated.  But, the article does not say if an LLC was used, or any other pertinent details.  I am not familiar with Colorado's tax evasion laws, so I can't comment on this other than to say, tax evasion is illegal and no one should break the law.

There is definitely a lot of hateful rhetoric in the above links, but that doesn't make something legal or illegal.

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Advice to the OP!

On LLC, talk with an attorney in your planned domicile state to understand their specific laws relative to taxes and out of state LLCs. Do not rely on forums, newspapers, current LLC owners and law enforcement personnel on here [No offense intended to anyone here]. Their knowledge is specific to their circumstance or local/state laws where they live/practice. You situation is probably different.

An LLC article with some good general advice and information below, BUT go talk with a competent attorney!!  You will need to know you state of domicile, do you or will you have any property in your current state, your planned use of the LLC and the timing of all of the above.

http://www.jackdanmayer.com/registration_and_legal_issues.htm#LLC Option

If you still have questions on the LLC talk with these folks:- http://www.bennettlawofficepc.com/

Good luck with you decision.

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One thing no one has mentioned..... whether you are legal or not, when you're sitting along the road, the officer who pulled you over can ruin your day, and possibly several more.  His interpretation of the law will prevail until you get before judge, and that might very inconvenient.

Saving a few bucks on sales tax or ducking through a loophole may not be worth the possible down sides. 

 

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On 8/30/2017 at 8:37 AM, Chad Heiser said:

This will be my last post on this subject.  I am in law enforcement so I understand the law and the enforcement of it.  Nothing I have posted has been opinion.  I have posted facts.  It is not my opinion that a vehicle garaged in a state, owned by a resident of that state is required to be registered in that state.  That is law.  You even admit that the states "require" it.  The law is the law.  Just because a particular state doesn't go after or enforce certain violations doesn't mean that they are still not violations.  If you choose to violate the law, that is on you.  My only dog in this particular fight is to educate people about what the law is.  Take that knowledge and do what you want with it.  If you choose to violate the law, so be it.  I am not against using an LLC.  It can make sense in certain situations, however they are not applicable to everyone.

I am not sure why you bring up how an HDT is registered and what that has to do with the LLC issue.  HDT registration is a pretty black and white issue.  Some states allow motorhome registrations for HDT's, some states allow private truck registrations for HDT's and at least one state I am aware of only allows commercial registrations for HDT's.  It is pretty simple to find out what your particular state will allow and then do that.  In this case, it is one size fits all for everyone in the respective state.  These are two completely separate issues.

An LLC is about minimizing exposure.  That exposure can be to liability or to taxes or whatever.  It is not about registration.  Registration is just a byproduct of the LLC.  If you choose not to follow your states registration laws, just know there may be consequences.  Some states pursue those consequences more aggressively than others and some states don't pursue them at all.  Just because those states don't actively pursue violations doesn't mean that there still won't be consequences if you end up dealing with law enforcement for some other reason.

 

Folks.......IF you are unwilling, unable, or too stupid to realize that Chad being a long-time law enforcement officer is giving FACTS and SAGE ADVICE regarding the dangers of "out-of-home-state-sales-tax-avoidance-programs" you might best to stand back and RE-consider ALL of the "ADVICE" that Chad has taken the time to give here. 

I have never met Chad face to face however his posting have always been of the highest quality and it is very likely he is not trolling for a new microwave or a case of Dr Pepper to alter his real world of the LAW.


 

IF you can't take Chads word for this subject.........why would you take a few words from a sketchy-geezer like me ........but what the heck.......

Back in the Stone Age when the world was flat I was born in a weird state called Oregon thought to be by most folks just a northern county of Kalifornia............I have wondered much of the world but I have always maintained residency in  Oregon with concise Legal status.

Now I do not need to obtain a Montana LLC because in almost every way Oregon is a better deal.......EXCEPT.........EXCEPT .......maybe two ways.....

Oregon has NO SALES TAX..........Oregon will register a HDT as a Motor home in a heatbeat.........In Oregon you can operate any HDT-RV with ANY type of drivers license (and likely a learners permit).........

So why do folks flock to Montana instead of Oregon..........hummm good question.......

Here is the deal if you try to  foist your  "out-of-home-state-sales-tax-avoidance-programs" in Oregon don't worry about your "home state" , worry about Oregon ..........Oregon can be Nice or Oregon can be NASTY........

Many moons ago folks used to flock up to just inside the Oregon border from Kalifornia to "take delivery of the new / used/ mega-RV-Boat-Airplane-Etc...........For many years Kalifornia tax officials whined a bit but mostly let folks play the  "out-of-home-state-sales-tax-avoidance-programs" game..........Until.........UNTIL Kalifornia just got really pi$$ed off and started twisting Oregon-government-body-parts and then Oregon got pi$$ed off and so fast forward to today and even really dumb lawyers will refuse to play the  "out-of-home-state-sales-tax-avoidance-programs"in Oregon.

Now even being a LEGAL resident of a No-Sales-Tax can have a big downside in that you now are “highly-suspect” to revenue geeks from “Sales-Tax-States”……..

Now IF a “Sales-Tax-State” files charges against you can you “WIN” your case……..well…….well…..maybe…...sorta, maybe, sorta…..

Once upon a time I flew a NEW Aircraft from Texas to Oregon with a less than a hour stop at Hayward Kalifornia……..Wrongly, Kalifornia revenue geeks came after me with flood of paper DEMANDING lots of $$$$$

Kalifornia was wrong and after a LOT and a LOT more wrangling Kalifornia retracted the matter and all I had to do was pay the $$$$$ to obtain justice……..could I have obtained $$$ back from Kalifornia oh shucks seems like a walk in the park…..hummm maybe clawing back legal fees from Kalifornia might be not much fun and just stuffing $$$ down a rat hole.

Brad alluded to something when he said; “Just because those states don't actively pursue violations doesn't mean that there still won't be consequences if you end up dealing with law enforcement for some other reason.”

Some time ago I used to perform some expert-witness work for wrongful death aircraft cases for various shyster-lawyers and when you spend way too much time in back rooms with too many lawyers you learn many bad things about the “Law”…….In the statement above that Brad made, he is hinting at a Legal-Term called “Discretionary Immunity”……..what is “Discretionary Immunity?"

 

Discretionary immunity is a qualified immunity from civil liability for tortious acts or omissions that arise from a government employee's discretionary acts performed as part of the employee's duties.

 

So what, you say?

 

Well here is what Brad was kindly trying to advise us to consider in the consequences of our planning.

Where this subject gets really NASTY is when the “Government” decides to no longer just look the other way (“discretionary Immunity”) and starts “Looking-Back” at "out-of-home-state-sales-tax-avoidance-programs" and then starts sending out TONS of demands for $$$$$…….

 

Good luck….you may need it …..and….plenty of $$$

 

Drive on……..(Be careful of too much ……...Immunity)

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On 8/30/2017 at 1:50 PM, Shifted said:

I am glad that you will never post on this subject again.  Shew, some people just don't want to learn anything new, lol.

 

So what state is your driver's license from/where do you have your RV housed?  Maybe you'll open up a whole new world of options for people who want to use an LLC to reduce their vehicle registration fees...amongst other things.

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On 8/30/2017 at 8:32 PM, noteven said:

If your tongue weight is 3500lbs - your bumper tow trailer weighs 35000 lbs? (10% on tongue) 

The TT weighs 24K and at level tow has 3,200 lbs. Or 13.5% tongue weight. It tows great other than the "chucking" issue. The 10% rule is arbitrary. TT's should have a tongue weight of 10% to 15%. I prefer a little heavier as they seem to tow better than lighter.

fnMLSAUl.jpg

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9 hours ago, MoSKP9 said:

The TT weighs 24K and at level tow has 3,200 lbs. Or 13.5% tongue weight. It tows great other than the "chucking" issue. The 10% rule is arbitrary. TT's should have a tongue weight of 10% to 15%. I prefer a little heavier as they seem to tow better than lighter.

I see said the ... anyhoo - that is a pretty heavy trailer - is there room on your trailer and truck to set up a cushioned pintle coupling?

http://www.safholland.us/us/en/products/coupling-products

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I have been researching the Air Safe hitch more since Shifted suggested it. After speaking with Floyd (an Air Safe dealer in Florida ) I was able to get them to make me a special heavy duty class VIII with a 3" shank and an upgraded air bag. It will be rated for 3,500# of tongue weight and 30K TT weight. It was pricey at $2,700, but worth it to me if it does the job. Considering the weight of the TT it's not much more than a high quality 5er hitch would be and I would much rather have a TT as I need to use my truck bed for a lot of other things beside lugging a hitch around.

fnMLSAUl.jpg

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19 hours ago, MoSKP9 said:

The TT weighs 24K and at level tow has 3,200 lbs. Or 13.5% tongue weight. It tows great other than the "chucking" issue. The 10% rule is arbitrary. TT's should have a tongue weight of 10% to 15%. I prefer a little heavier as they seem to tow better than lighter.

Wow.  So 24000 total weight - 3200 tongue = 20800 on the axles.  I am assuming triple 7k axles?  If so that is only 200# short of being overloaded, better not buy any beer or let the wife shop on the trip.  Also the 3 axles are never all exactly the same weight, likely one or more of your axles/tires are already overloaded.  And you have to have that big tongue weight just so the axles aren't overloaded to start with.  Or does it have something heavier?

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Going to the rally is a great education.  For some reason I am not able to post pictures.  I have a 2006 Volvo 630 with a longish wheelbase, and I built a 18' bed on my truck to accommodate my Jeep JKU Rubicon, I too tow a bumper pull trailer, and have the Air Safe hitch.  I cannot say enough good words about the hitch.  When towing my trailer with the pickup and the load equalizing hitch, it seemed no matter how well I pack things up in the trailer, I always found something or more usually several something's had shifted in transit.  I could look back in the mirror and see how rough the ride was back there.  I didn't have a "shucking", it was more like a drag and release feeling.  Yes tough to explain, but as the suspension collapsed down it felt like a drag, going back up, sort of release.  When going to the Volvo and Air Safe, there is a rock steady trailer behind me as I look in the mirror, even on an interstate with lots of expansion joints!  Wow, it's great!  In addition, I accidentally left a plastic cup on the nightstand by the bed 3/4 full of water.  This is a front bedroom trailer.  550 mile drive, and the cup was still where I put it, and still pretty full!  The nightstand area was not wet at all!  

Can anyone tell me if there is a secret to posting pics on the forum?

Scott

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Photo hosting site. Copy the image code , after you upload to the site. Return here, paste the code. Done.

I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 

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Ok. Here goes.  This is a pic of my rig ready to roll out of the Shreveport KOA

%5BIMG%5Dhttps://i.imgur.com/pOyc1trl.jpg%5B/IMG%5D

 

2006 Volvo 630, 10 spd, 465 hp D12 1650 torque, Tandem Axles (Texas Dually)
18' Dovetail Flatbed with EZ Slide Ramps by Texas RV & Toy Hauler Conversions
30' Flagstaff Bumper Pull Travel Trailer
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon 2.5" Lift (Night Crawler)

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Ok going to try one more thing. pOyc1trl.jpg

Ok. Found the magic formula!

2006 Volvo 630, 10 spd, 465 hp D12 1650 torque, Tandem Axles (Texas Dually)
18' Dovetail Flatbed with EZ Slide Ramps by Texas RV & Toy Hauler Conversions
30' Flagstaff Bumper Pull Travel Trailer
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon 2.5" Lift (Night Crawler)

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On 8/31/2017 at 8:45 AM, Shifted said:

Or....I may be in a stronger position on this topic, and in court, than you are assuming.

Show me a letter from the attorney general in your home state saying that they don't mind you skipping out on taxes, until then, I already said I am not doing it.

 

http://www.taxrates.com/blog/2015/09/16/minnesotans-register-that-rv-or-go-directly-to-jail/

https://www.avalara.com/blog/2017/05/31/cant-outrun-sales-tax-wacky-tax-wednesday/

http://lastbestnews.com/site/2015/04/tax-cheats-flock-to-montana-to-buy-tax-free-vehicles-rvs/

 

Honestly I don't need a lawyer to tell me avoiding paying taxes is against the law. If you do, well....

 

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