Ordering a new Volvo and could use some opinions

[Jack Mayer]

If you are titled as a motorhome you can run the 23K rear. 

None of my business, but I question your rear numbers. I have a 7K pin weight on a much lighter and smaller New Horizons.  In your case, you want to have 23% or MORE on your pin (I have 25%). So you will be well over 7K. On just the pin weight alone. I realize you are not carrying a car, or anything else, as you describe. But I'd hazard that you are cutting it close. Why configure a new truck to "cut it close"????

Plus, you now preclude putting a body on the truck in the future - or at least make that questionable. You don't know what the future will bring....you might want a full body later. Why DESIGN for limitations on a truck that can last you a LONG time? 

[Hot Rod]

So, this discussion makes me curious.  Could a builder specializing in RV haulers, say in KS for example, take a brand new truck ("incomplete vehicle" as discussed, as opposed to a tractor) and be the upfitter so the new truck's original title is an RV, just like if you bought a new Renegade or Showhauler toter?  Assuming of course enough equipment was added when new to meet the minimum standards of an RV.  In theory, with the right equipment it would on paper be no different than a Renegade toter except for an RV fifth wheel in place of a gooseneck, and everything built into the sleeper and storage instead of a big square box bolted to a day cab.  Or is there some legal wrangling required like being registered with the government as a vehicle manufacturer?

 

[Larry&Donna-AK]

8 hours ago, GeorgiaHybrid said:

No, they can't. I tried.

The feds will use the lowest rated component on each axle to determine the truck rating. In our case, the front is rated at 13,200 but the 23K rear was de-rated by the tires I chose to 22,500. My combined weight is 35,700 instead of the axle ratings of 36,200. You can also run over the 20K limit per axle under certain conditions, remember that the DOT regs are for commercial vehicles and that some states (CA surprised me here) have exemptions for private vehicles or for RV's.

I just checked my truck and door label reads... 13,200 front and 23K Rear axle and combined weight is 33,500.

[Larry&Donna-AK]

7 minutes ago, Hot Rod said:

So, this discussion makes me curious.  Could a builder specializing in RV haulers, say in KS for example, take a brand new truck ("incomplete vehicle" as discussed, as opposed to a tractor) and be the upfitter so the new truck's original title is an RV, just like if you bought a new Renegade or Showhauler toter?  Assuming of course enough equipment was added when new to meet the minimum standards of an RV.  In theory, with the right equipment it would on paper be no different than a Renegade toter except for an RV fifth wheel in place of a gooseneck, and everything built into the sleeper and storage instead of a big square box bolted to a day cab.  Or is there some legal wrangling required like being registered with the government as a vehicle manufacturer?

 

 

Your post is exactly what I did. I ordered an incomplete truck without FET and Completed the truck when the bed and hitch was installed. The bed builder should provide a secondary door label to complete the truck.

Also, because the Model is a 42T780 the Dealer and I completed a simple statement of intended use, "Recreational and Personal Use only". I maintain this in my historical records and it aided as proof when registering the truck as a Motorhome.  "Not for Hire" in my book doesn't mean anything.

 

[Dollytrolley]

If you want to try the spreadsheet just drop me a email at  mmcdan3189@aol.com

 

Drive on........( run the.......numbers)

I will give it a shot but I hope I am smart enough to make it work.

 

13 speed give yourself some credit.......shucks if you can make 13 shifts your at least 5 or 6 ahead of me and I only have a 10 speed roadrager......

 

So I can't help myself......so..... I'll run some numbers for you and we should be pretty close .......maybe darn close so stay tuned .....

Since you have given your wheel base(s) and your dry factory axle weights I will assume you have two 100 gal tanks that are well forward due to your  short wheelbase so I will ASSUME that the center of your fuel tanks are at 56 inches aft of your front axle Centerline. 

 

Now I may be dumb but......I wont ask how much or little  your wife weighs so........just tell me TOTAL weight of you, your wife, and the Two puppies PLUS how much Dr Pepper and Crown Royal Etc. Etc that you plan to haul in the cab / condo.....

 

Here is what I will do......I will plug your truck into the spreadsheet and then I will run the numbers empty, loaded with you 8K pin weight with full cab & fuel and then bobtail and....and....and .....shucks just to give Henry fits I might just move your hitch around some........heck when I get on a roll I might even move your axles around some......

 

With the live data spreadsheet you can "tune" the truck / trailer configuration in far less time that it takes me to peck out this reply.

Posting the spreadsheet results here on the forum is a bit messy and takes longer than the actual calculations but I will likely just post a link to my google docs page....

 

Drive on..........(Numbers....easy.......posting numbers.....not so easy)

 

[Dollytrolley]

Ok..........it's 01:00 and I am on the last jug od Dr. Pepper so check my numbers boys.......

 

BASELINE TRUCK(DRY)=  175  inch wheelbase / steer axle wt =8698 lbs / drive axle = 4129 lbs / empty wt= 12,827 lbs / CG=56.33" aft of datum

Steer axle = Zero datum

L & R Fuel = 56" station

Driver & Pass = 86" sta

Sleeper cargo= 100" sta

Hitch pin = 157" sta

Rear Drive axle= 175" sta

ASSUME (1) >>>> Driver and front passenger 340 Lbs /// Fuel 1,200 Lbs /// sleeper cargo 100 Lbs/// Hitch Pin wt=8,000 lbs

Steer = 10,735 Lbs - 47.10%   / Drive axle- 12,057  -- 52.90% / Total Wt= 22,792 Lbs  / CG 92.58" aft of front axle

 

ASSUME (2) >>>> Driver and front passenger 340 Lbs /// Fuel 1,200 Lbs /// sleeper cargo 100 Lbs/// Hitch Pin wt=10,000 lbs

Steer = 10,940 Lbs - 44.13%   / Drive axle- 13,852  -- 55.87% / Total Wt= 24,792 Lbs  / CG 97.77"' aft of front axle

 

ASSUME (3) >>>> Driver and front passenger 340 Lbs /// Fuel 1,200 Lbs /// sleeper cargo 100 Lbs/// Hitch Pin wt=6,000 lbs

Steer = 10,529 Lbs - 50.64%   / Drive axle- 10,263  -- 49.36% / Total Wt= 20,792 Lbs  / CG 86.38"' aft of front axle

 

Ok......still have some capacity for .......more Dr Pepper and some Crown Royal........

As for me it's 01:21 so it sack time ....good nite boys.....

 

Drive on.........(What are your......numbers)

 

 

 

[Jack Mayer]

12 hours ago, Hot Rod said:

So, this discussion makes me curious.  Could a builder specializing in RV haulers, say in KS for example, take a brand new truck ("incomplete vehicle" as discussed, as opposed to a tractor) and be the upfitter so the new truck's original title is an RV, just like if you bought a new Renegade or Showhauler toter?  Assuming of course enough equipment was added when new to meet the minimum standards of an RV.  In theory, with the right equipment it would on paper be no different than a Renegade toter except for an RV fifth wheel in place of a gooseneck, and everything built into the sleeper and storage instead of a big square box bolted to a day cab.  Or is there some legal wrangling required like being registered with the government as a vehicle manufacturer?

 

 

Exactly right.  But to get the waiver on FET from the IRS you do have to do certain things. .....things that are being done as I type.  It is a somewhat "daunting" process. Not just the IRS stuff - they are actually easy to work with. But the state licenses can be tricky.

Changing the topic some....You will not find a dealer that will waive FET without the IRS exemption number on a tractor over 33K, as Larry accomplished.  The dealer he used will no longer do that. You can argue the points, but without the IRS waiver you are not going to get far. Larry did an excellent job of documenting his usage and convinced the dealer that they should waive the FET. But currently Volvo itself is going to force the FET on, unless you have the IRS waiver number in hand. This is only on trucks/tractors over 33K.

If you are a good negotiator you "might" get the dealer to "pay" the FET for you....but like a high trade in value on a car, we all know who is really paying it. 

[13speed]

Thank you Dolly, Those calculations are very interesting. It seems that no matter what you enter the front never gets over 11K and only changes by a few hundred lbs at the most.  

Jack, I think that no matter what I will be at or under 11K on the front with 1.5K in reserve and at 13K and change on the rear with the ET and 8K in pin weight leaving 6-7K left over. Why would I pay 14K in FET to get more room when I already have a lot? I am setting my truck to be different than most of you do. I want mine to be light and nimble not big and plodding. I personally would not spend a crap ton of money to carry more crap with me that I can most likely live without in the first place. I also do not want to pay for the fuel to haul around the thousands of lbs of bed, drom and extra crap. If I do need more I will just add a couple of side boxes. They are light and will handle what I need. 

Resale is so far off if ever because I am buying new. Far cheaper than upgrading every few years. Who ever would decide buy this truck in the future would likely think the way I do and be fine with it the way it is. 

[Jack Mayer]

Chris, I  like your idea(s) of the nimble truck....as you may know I built one of those.....a little "fatter" than the one you are thinking of. Base on the 610. So I get it. I just want to make sure you don't build something that will lock you down and keep you from using it if you change your mind about things along the way. I can tell you, that things DO CHANGE as you live the fulltime lifestyle. 

But according to the spreadsheet you have enough capacity to carry some deck cargo if you wish. You will just have to be a little careful. That assumes the input numbers are correct.

I do think you will want to carefully consider the D13 so that you can set up the hp and get the torque higher. In the mountains you will not regret it. It is a tough decision, however, since the gradeability numbers on the smaller engine are pretty good. But it is going to drop off fast on bigger grades. It really boils down to how much performance you demand. I can tell you that on my D13 XE 455/1750 with 2.67 overdrive that cruising at 68 in 12th I can pull 3% (or so) grades and stay in 12th (and maintain speed +/- 2 mph). On steeper grades it will attempt to stay in 12th down to about 57 mph if I don't force a change, or if I don't run the trans in performance mode. This works for me, and the higher speed is fine...at least with my setup. Just make sure that if your target speed is 65 that you give yourself some latitude in the specs for a higher cruise if you want it. Otherwise you will find yourself screaming along at 1500 rpm at 67 or so. 

As to your hitch placement, you are not going to get that with a stock ET SR. And there are no other air ride hitches on the market that will take your pin weights (that I know of). That leaves you in a quandary of sorts. You can do a commercial hitch, but I doubt New Horizons will warranty that on a tractor. Up to them, but I would not, unless you engineer in some frame changes. Or, you might want to place an ET ON the frame rails and modify the 5er to suit. You might explore that resolution with Henry. That "could" get you a 50" plate height. Or thereabouts....I'd have to run the numbers which I have not.

[13speed]

Jack,

I have already looked into a higher pin box and other then moving to the top position of the 3 I am out of luck. Cole did measure and I will have about 48 1/2-49 max to keep the trailer level.

I have been thinking about something else though. Gregg and I were talking and he said that to make it work without re engineering it he would have to remove any existing huck bolts and then slide the hitch in from the rear place and install new bolts. After looking at my current truck the only major issues are the spring mounts as the hitch will be right in between them. Then bolt it back together with the hitch in place of the crossmember. He said it could affect my warranty but I would assume only on the affected area??

I am sure there are better ways to do this but no one is going to want to put much time into it with me being the only demand for it for now. Would you and Gregg come up with a reasonable price to get the hitch installed in this manner? It is more than a regular hitch install but way less than a singling.    

[Larry&Donna-AK]

2 hours ago, Jack Mayer said:

Exactly right.  But to get the waiver on FET from the IRS you do have to do certain things. .....things that are being done as I type.  It is a somewhat "daunting" process. Not just the IRS stuff - they are actually easy to work with. But the state licenses can be tricky.

Changing the topic some....You will not find a dealer that will waive FET without the IRS exemption number on a tractor over 33K, as Larry accomplished.  The dealer he used will no longer do that. You can argue the points, but without the IRS waiver you are not going to get far. Larry did an excellent job of documenting his usage and convinced the dealer that they should waive the FET. But currently Volvo itself is going to force the FET on, unless you have the IRS waiver number in hand. This is only on trucks/tractors over 33K.

If you are a good negotiator you "might" get the dealer to "pay" the FET for you....but like a high trade in value on a car, we all know who is really paying it. 

I didn't know this, sounds like I got really lucky because of my lack of knowledge of 33K rule, dumb luck and a learning process for all. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Then questions I would then ask:

1. Can one of us considering a new truck purchase obtain the "IRS exemption (waiver number)"?

2. Can't the Dealer/Manufacturer  specify the 33K limit during the ordering/build process? Afterall my my truck is only 500 lbs over 33K limit.

[13speed]

Yes that can be done. I am going to go that route as well but I don't need the extra capacity as most of you guys do. Where are you 55lbs over, front back or a little on both? What is your pin weight? If you are that close to 33K with a 780 a hauler bed and a smart I should have no worries with what I am going to be doing. 

[Dollytrolley]

3 hours ago, 13speed said:

Thank you Dolly, Those calculations are very interesting. It seems that no matter what you enter the front never gets over 11K and only changes by a few hundred lbs at the most.  

Jack, I think that no matter what I will be at or under 11K on the front with 1.5K in reserve and at 13K and change on the rear with the ET and 8K in pin weight leaving 6-7K left over. Why would I pay 14K in FET to get more room when I already have a lot? I am setting my truck to be different than most of you do. I want mine to be light and nimble not big and plodding. I personally would not spend a crap ton of money to carry more crap with me that I can most likely live without in the first place. I also do not want to pay for the fuel to haul around the thousands of lbs of bed, drom and extra crap. If I do need more I will just add a couple of side boxes. They are light and will handle what I need. 

Resale is so far off if ever because I am buying new. Far cheaper than upgrading every few years. Who ever would decide buy this truck in the future would likely think the way I do and be fine with it the way it is. 

13....Your welcome, trust me a few minutes with the spreadsheet you would be a pro....

 

Now Jack makes a good point in that I made some ASSumptions with the locations of your fuel tanks and your seat locations as well as you and your wife's weights as well as your puppies.......remember the devil is in the details....

 

It is interesting though that your feather lite concept does have pretty loading profiles since your light weights and 10% hitch to wheelbase ratio favors the drive axle while keeping the steer stable within the load ratings. 

I have doodled with a close-coupled tractor / trailer combo with the Smart car on a low platform on the back of a nice big custom 5er.....when I run the numbers it makes for a interesting rig combo with low aero drag and very nice ride enhancements due to load distributions however the trailer suspension would need to be correct and better than most RV come with. The Smart on the correct height platform (less than 24 inches would be a breeze to load wth short light ramps ) When the Smrt was not being carried the platform could be folded vertical and then the pin weight would increase but well within limits by designing the loading before hand.

 

Not too far out of the box really......in fac we would just be using the box we just tow anyways.......

 

Bobtail we could just load the Smart on the short deck.....simple....

 

Drive on..........( Think about the .....box)

[13speed]

Well I think you were pretty spot on with your guesses. I am 200 and a little change and the wife is around 150. The little doggie in the avatar is about 115 and dog #2 is about 60 so being generous 550 would cover all 4 of us. We were going to run a 100 and a 75 fuel tanks and they will tuck in behind the DEF tank and emissions equipment respectfully. I figure 750 lbs for the ET and 40-50 for a set of fenders.

Does the shorter nose of the VNR vs the VNL change anything?

[Jack Mayer]

Larry, there IS provision in the FET code for an individual to obtain a waiver. At least that is MY interpretation. I don't know if has ever been done, though. 

As far as the trucks under the 33K if that works then you can certainly get a truck without paying the FET. Almost any dealer should be familiar with doing so. 

The smaller lighter trucks are attractive. I've played around with a design for a 5th that is not a toy hauler but DOES carry a smart on the back.There are several ways to do it, including extended frame rails, a hydrolift on the back, a swivel trailer, and a fold-up carrier like described by DollyTrolly. The issue with the fold up is exit clearance. All the other solutions resolve that in various ways. 

We are going to build a hauler that is intended as a daily driver at some point. I know exactly what I'd do with it, since I lived with one for 3 years while fulltiming. 

As to the VNR vs VNL the VNR should be lighter. I'm assuming your dealer can tell you the specific details and tradeoff of the two.

[noteven]

Maybe look at a Husqvarna 701 Enduro for a get around vehicle. (Please note it is pronounced "husk WARN a" not "husk a VAR na" )

67 HP

344lbs

seat like a ironin' board, 'cept narrower

carries even less gas than a Smart

Shouldn't wreck Dolly t's spreadsheet too bad loaded on the back. Not very wide either. Here's me practicing what I'm going to do in Buccee's parking lot: 

[Larry&Donna-AK]

4 hours ago, Jack Mayer said:

Larry, there IS provision in the FET code for an individual to obtain a waiver. At least that is MY interpretation. I don't know if has ever been done, though. 

 

There must be because I've seen many of the large Motorhomes are now exceeding the 33K, one would think an HDT could fall within the same category. My thinking is, being my own self builder even if I contract out to get the results I desire.

[Scrap]

If it helps, I've built a few of the shorthood, small sleeper lightweight T680's in the past couple of years that are the same kind of thing.  A 13K truck is going to be tough but a single axle truck can probably get there.  DollyT can do the math to add your stuff to these:

Truck 1:  11L, 6x2, 205WB, LH 100gal tank @ 3100, dry = 14257lb, front = 8690

Truck 2:  13L, 6x2, 205WB, LH 100gal tank @3150, dry = 14788lb, front = 9250

Truck 3:  13L, 6x2, 197WB, LH 100gal tank @3000, dry = 14808lb, front = 9280

Truck 4: 13L, 6x4, 208WB, Dual 100gal tans @2800, dry = 16891lb , front = 10190

Truck 4 has all the good stuff, 4 real batteries, sleeper heater, two real seats, a stick w/ overdrive, all the storage cabinets, and on and on.  It was actually one of my favorites.  But it all adds up pretty quick.  Even 1-3 above could be lighter but you are making some real sacrifices that would make for a rough day of trucking.  At that point you might as well drive a mixer truck all day!  You could also delete the disc brakes and save 320 lbs in the front.

Unless your trailer has a 121 air system all of your new trucks will be an incomplete straight truck.  Any final stage mfgr for 1st sale needs to be NHTSA registered, and I think they have 30 days to do it after the LLC or whatever is formed or they face four digit fines per body.  Final stage and FET and stuff isn't really my thing, but it seems like they are all members of NTEA to keep them all up to speed.

The 17K,19K,20K axles don't have 2.xx gearing, so your transmission is knocking them out.  Go to an overdrive trans and they'll be available again.  Maybe.  They are also only 60K GCW, which doesn't give you much room either.  Lightweight trucks can be a chore to spec!

 

[Dollytrolley]

4 hours ago, Scrap said:

If it helps, I've built a few of the shorthood, small sleeper lightweight T680's in the past couple of years that are the same kind of thing.  A 13K truck is going to be tough but a single axle truck can probably get there.  DollyT can do the math to add your stuff to these:

Truck 1:  11L, 6x2, 205WB, LH 100gal tank @ 3100, dry = 14257lb, front = 8690

Truck 2:  13L, 6x2, 205WB, LH 100gal tank @3150, dry = 14788lb, front = 9250

Truck 3:  13L, 6x2, 197WB, LH 100gal tank @3000, dry = 14808lb, front = 9280

Truck 4: 13L, 6x4, 208WB, Dual 100gal tans @2800, dry = 16891lb , front = 10190

Truck 4 has all the good stuff, 4 real batteries, sleeper heater, two real seats, a stick w/ overdrive, all the storage cabinets, and on and on.  It was actually one of my favorites.  But it all adds up pretty quick.  Even 1-3 above could be lighter but you are making some real sacrifices that would make for a rough day of trucking.  At that point you might as well drive a mixer truck all day!  You could also delete the disc brakes and save 320 lbs in the front.

Unless your trailer has a 121 air system all of your new trucks will be an incomplete straight truck.  Any final stage mfgr for 1st sale needs to be NHTSA registered, and I think they have 30 days to do it after the LLC or whatever is formed or they face four digit fines per body.  Final stage and FET and stuff isn't really my thing, but it seems like they are all members of NTEA to keep them all up to speed.

The 17K,19K,20K axles don't have 2.xx gearing, so your transmission is knocking them out.  Go to an overdrive trans and they'll be available again.  Maybe.  They are also only 60K GCW, which doesn't give you much room either.  Lightweight trucks can be a chore to spec!

 

Man you guys are killing this ole geezer........so down here on the edge of Death Valley we are in the throws of a COLD snap my thumbs are so darn cold I can hardly typeee.........supposed to warm up to 107f today but just got to 105f.......burrrrrrr  tommorrow supposed to get to 110f but with my luck we'll be lucky to get 108f..........to make matters worse I was blazing down the road on my 1967 chrome moly 12.7  Schwinn 10 speed and.......darn if I did not break a spoke on the gear-set side of the rear wheel so now I am in the middle of re--lacing and trueing the wheel and of course on the gear set side we have 110 itty--bitty ball bearings that I have to set in grease in the inner and outer clutch races and then the axle ball bearing have to be loaded as well.........maybe I should just walk the 13 miles each morning but I would likely freeze in this cold weather........

 

Ok ...ok ....enough grumping....so I guess this gaggle of trucks need the hitch pins installed 18" forward of the drive axle and then the humans , dogs, fuel as the previous post last night so maybe I better put my parka and seal fur gloves on and see if I can warm up the spreadsheet for the next post.......

 

Drive on.........(Don't get too ....cold)

 

 

[Dollytrolley]

Scrap 

If it helps, I've built a few of the shorthood, small sleeper lightweight T680's in the past couple of years that are the same kind of thing.  A 13K truck is going to be tough but a single axle truck can probably get there.  DollyT can do the math to add your stuff to these:

Truck 1:  11L, 6x2, 205WB, LH 100gal tank @ 3100, dry = 14257lb, front = 8690

Truck 2:  13L, 6x2, 205WB, LH 100gal tank @3150, dry = 14788lb, front = 9250

Truck 3:  13L, 6x2, 197WB, LH 100gal tank @3000, dry = 14808lb, front = 9280

Truck 4: 13L, 6x4, 208WB, Dual 100gal tans @2800, dry = 16891lb , front = 10190

Truck 4 has all the good stuff, 4 real batteries, sleeper heater, two real seats, a stick w/ overdrive, all the storage cabinets, and on and on.  It was actually one of my favorites.  But it all adds up pretty quick.  Even 1-3 above could be lighter but you are making some real sacrifices that would make for a rough day of trucking.  At that point you might as well drive a mixer truck all day!  You could also delete the disc brakes and save 320 lbs in the front.

Unless your trailer has a 121 air system all of your new trucks will be an incomplete straight truck.  Any final stage mfgr for 1st sale needs to be NHTSA registered, and I think they have 30 days to do it after the LLC or whatever is formed or they face four digit fines per body.  Final stage and FET and stuff isn't really my thing, but it seems like they are all members of NTEA to keep them all up to speed.

The 17K,19K,20K axles don't have 2.xx gearing, so your transmission is knocking them out.  Go to an overdrive trans and they'll be available again.  Maybe.  They are also only 60K GCW, which doesn't give you much room either.  Lightweight trucks can be a chore to spec!

 

Truck 1 :

BASELINE TRUCK(DRY)=  205  inch wheelbase / steer axle wt =8690 lbs – 60.97% / drive axle = 5567 lbs – 39.03% / empty wt= 14,257 lbs / CG=80" aft of datum

Steer axle = Zero datum

L Fuel = 122" station

Driver & Pass = 86" sta

Sleeper cargo= 100" sta

Hitch pin = 187" sta

Rear Drive axle= 205" sta

ASSUME (1) >>>> Driver and front passenger 340 Lbs /// Fuel 600 Lbs (Edited 5/23) /// sleeper cargo 100 Lbs/// Hitch Pin wt=8,000 lbs

Results: Total truck wt= 23,630 Lbs @ 117.42 “ CG

Steer = 10,095 Lbs – 42.72%

Drive Axle= 13,535 Lbs – 57.28%

 

Bed time.........more trucks manyana......

 

Drive on..........(Dream time for geezers....)

[Dollytrolley]

Burrrrrr man it's so cold here that when I cut and pasted the Volvo wt &abalone from two nights ago and ciphered Scraps Kwooper numbers I left the 1200 lbs of fuel in the base truck but I actually did only input the correct 600 lbs of fuel into the spreadsheet so the actual result numbers from the spreadsheet are correct it's just my cut and paste from two nights ago that'100 gals of fuel off....are we all confused yet.....?

So the good news.....I wrenched the ten speed gear set and clutch and ittybitty ball bearing balls out of the 67 Schwinn and only lost ONE ittybitty ball but found the darn thing so......I replaced the TWO new spokes and now all I have to do is re-install EACH of those 110 ittybitty balls into EACH of the inner and outer clutch races WITHOUT loosing a ......Ball.....humm......maybe I might need to just invert the mix and just put a teaspoon of Dr Pepper into my Crown Royal before I loose a ball.......

maybe I just get one of those Huskyeeveanaa motor scooters and forget the ole Schwinn ........Husky likely has bigger but fewer ....balls......

 

anyhow If I don't freeze to death at the low 100s today maybe I ca chirped scraps #2 wt & bal tonite....

Drive on.........(brrrrr.....)

[Jack Mayer]

14 hours ago, Scrap said:

The 17K,19K,20K axles don't have 2.xx gearing, so your transmission is knocking them out.  Go to an overdrive trans and they'll be available again.  Maybe.  They are also only 60K GCW, which doesn't give you much room either.  Lightweight trucks can be a chore to spec!

 

LIghtweight trucks that are squeezing the last pound out ARE hard to spec, It requires experience and time. And if you are cutting it down real far you better be sure of the tradeoffs you are making.  My advice to those seeking a very light weight truck is to work with an experienced dealer. Someone that has done it many times. It is not rocket science, but it is not grade school science class, either. There are many, MANY interactions between the systems when specing. You need to understand the tradeoffs and know how to get the relationships right. Or you will be disappointed.  The truck will still work, but it will not be optimal, or (perhaps) flexible for future endeavours.  I'm stating this for others - Chris already is on this path and knows this. 

[13speed]

How did this thread turn into a weight watchers meeting? I personally do not have any target weight and when I said light and nimbal I meant by not having the big 670/780 sleepers for weight and the short nose of the VNR and small sleeper for nimble maneuvering.  

Current specks below, let me know what you all think.

D13 455-eco.

Davco fuel pro 382 fluid heat

Non OD ishift with 2.50 rear gear. 65mph at 1350 according to a gearing calc I am using.

23K rear axle with 20K suspension and Diff lock.

12.5K front axle with 12K springs

295/75/22.5 on Alcoa one's

100/75 gallon tanks

Disc brakes both axles.

177WB

All kinds of shiny polished and chrome things plus leather heated seats, leather steering wheel, hood mirrors, PWR locks.

Dash shifter

Weed burner

Thats the big stuff.

Questions comments or concerns???

 

 

 

[Jack Mayer]

I'd personally be looking at 65 at 1250.  But if you like the higher rpm because of the torque curve that might work. Ultimately, it is up to you. It should pull down to around 56-57 before dropping to 11th on cruise, at least. You need to be very careful about the gearing and the cruise scenarios. 

[13speed]

17 minutes ago, Jack Mayer said:

I'd personally be looking at 65 at 1250.  But if you like the higher rpm because of the torque curve that might work. Ultimately, it is up to you. It should pull down to around 56-57 before dropping to 11th on cruise, at least. You need to be very careful about the gearing and the cruise scenarios. 

I have been stressing over it. I want to hit a middle ground between fuel economy and not hunting between 11th and 12th. That just about splits Volvo's 1250-1500 cruise speed recommendation. Volvo is not allowing a lot of options for the salesman to choose from for some reason. I asked if there was a 2.47 or similar and he said there was not.