BlueLghtning Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 After lurking on this forum for a long time waiting to find my HDT, I fnally have one picked out. I'm purchasing a 2000 Volvo 610 which is singled short, but currently only has a goose neck ball on it. I'll be flying out to CA in a week or two to drive it home to GA, however one of the first things I'll need to do once I'm home is add a 5th wheel hitch to it. Just also this week we found our 2012 Keystone Raptor 4014LEV we'll be purchasing so that will be the trailer we'll be hauling. Thankfully the trailer is only 15mins away and they have agreed to store it on their property until we get the truck sorted. I found the trailer in my back yard, but the truck is across the country. haha. I know Henry and the ET hitch come in at the top of recomendations on this forum, but I also see lots of people are very happy with the Trail Saver TSLB2H which should work just fine with my my trailer setup also. Any others to look at also that work on our HDT setups? So what kind of range are you looking at for a 5th wheel hitch and the different options available and where you can mount it? Do some work up on the frame rail while others must sit down in between the rails like the ET hitch does? I'm sure a lot depends on the hitch and what mods you have to make to your truck to make it work. I wasn't expecting to find the HDT we wanted and the trailer in the same week so I'm going to have to pace myself on mods until my bank account recovers a bit. Finding both this week though sure lit a fire for my wife and I to get busy and put our plan into motion. Although my trailer is registered as a 2012 Keystone Raptor 4014LEV, it has the floor layout of the 2011 model so it must have been a late bloomer that got labeled as a 2012. Either way, the GVWR is 18k on either trailer with a hitch pin weight of 3075 - 3430 between the 2 years. Mine is probably on the lighter end. I know it probably depends on the trailer, but what ball park hitch height do you usually aim for on a standard trailer like the Keystone Raptor model? also, if anyone is on my route from CA to GA on I-40/I-22/I-20 has a hitch sitting there collecting dust you want sell, I'd be in the market and could pick up on my way home! This is what my truck looks like now with no bed and just a Goose Neck setup as it was used to haul a horse trailer. Here's the Goose Neck hookup. I think my preference would be to put the 5th wheel here, but would I have to have the frame extended a bit? This recent setup posted by Henry shows that this truck must have have the frame extended a bit to fit this ET hitch, plus it sits down in between the rails so it needs room there too? As for a bed, If we do anything it will just be a small platform to carry a motorcycle or two behind the cab similar to this, but a little smaller to fit the space I have available. as I look at this picture, I realize that hitch looks pretty simple on this truck? Is that just a standard 5th wheel hitch bolted to the frame rails on that plate? I guess if that isn't air ride hitch though that would be rougher on the 5th wheel unless maybe his 5th wheel hitch has air ride on it? Dan (Class of 2017) - 2012 Ram 3500 & 2005 Alpenlite Valhalla 29RK Contact me at rvsolarconsulting.com or Two Wheel Ramblin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 A couple of your picture links aren't working, but I get the idea. The most common hitches used by forum members are the ET and the Trailer Saver. There are some others that are used, but these are the most common. Both of them need to be mounted between the frame rails to get the hitch head height right. This also means they need to be behind the bell housing of the axle and/or the pan hard/torsion bar and any frame crossmembers between the axle and the frame to allow for proper suspension travel. For example, my Trailer Saver is mounted between the frame rails, just behind the bell housing of the axle (my trucks pan hard bar and cross members are in front of the axle). If the hitch were any farther forward, when the air suspension was fully deflated the hitch would hit the bell housing. the example you show with the hitch head on top of the frame rales is a basic sold mount head with side to side and front to back articulation, but no air suspension. At a minimum I would want an air pin box in combination with that type hitch, but would prefer an air hitch instead. If I remember correctly from the for sale add for the truck I think you bought, I think it will need a short frame extension to allow for an ET or a Trailer Saver to be installed like what Henry did in the other example you posted (but that is from memory - hopefully you will fix your links above and we can say for sure). As for pin weight, you want to shoot for somewhere around 20% of the overall weight of the trailer. A little more or less won't kill you, but more is better than less. 2009 Volvo 670 with dinette/workstation sleeper - Walter 2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard 2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan 2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage) 2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage) My First Solar Install Thread My Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the build My MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet! chadheiser.com West Coast HDT Rally Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 The ET fits between rails without adding anything but holes. The Trailersaver needs a plate welded in to mount it to. JFYI 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 14 minutes ago, GlennWest said: The ET fits between rails without adding anything but holes. The Trailersaver needs a plate welded in to mount it to. JFYI That isn't exactly correct. The ET comes with angle pre drilled to match the hitch. Holes then need to be drilled in the frame to mount the angle. The Trailer Saver can be mounted he same way, it just doesn't come with the angle. 2009 Volvo 670 with dinette/workstation sleeper - Walter 2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard 2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan 2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage) 2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage) My First Solar Install Thread My Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the build My MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet! chadheiser.com West Coast HDT Rally Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 That is different from what they told me. Not doubting what you stated. That is what TrailerSaver told me. Glad I went with the ET. 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSeas Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Something you want to verify before a hitch decision is made is the pin height you need for your trailer. Many toy hauler style trailers have higher than "normal" pin heights and may affect the height of your hitch. Pin height could allow more possibilities to what hitches you can use and their placement on your truck. Each truck has its "own" personality and you need to work with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alie&Jim's Carrilite Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Our Trailersaver is bolted to a 1/2 plate that is then bolted to the original angle that held the commercial plate on. Jim's Adventures Old Spacecraft.... Who knows whats next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasFlyer Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Congratulations on your truck and trailer..... John Southern Nevada 2008 Volvo 780, D13, I-Shift 2017 Keystone Fuzion 420 Toyhauler 2017 Can-Am Maverick X3-RS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLghtning Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Chad Heiser said: A couple of your picture links aren't working, but I get the idea. The most common hitches used by forum members are the ET and the Trailer Saver. There are some others that are used, but these are the most common. Both of them need to be mounted between the frame rails to get the hitch head height right. This also means they need to be behind the bell housing of the axle and/or the pan hard/torsion bar and any frame crossmembers between the axle and the frame to allow for proper suspension travel. For example, my Trailer Saver is mounted between the frame rails, just behind the bell housing of the axle (my trucks pan hard bar and cross members are in front of the axle). If the hitch were any farther forward, when the air suspension was fully deflated the hitch would hit the bell housing. the example you show with the hitch head on top of the frame rales is a basic sold mount head with side to side and front to back articulation, but no air suspension. At a minimum I would want an air pin box in combination with that type hitch, but would prefer an air hitch instead. If I remember correctly from the for sale add for the truck I think you bought, I think it will need a short frame extension to allow for an ET or a Trailer Saver to be installed like what Henry did in the other example you posted (but that is from memory - hopefully you will fix your links above and we can say for sure). As for pin weight, you want to shoot for somewhere around 20% of the overall weight of the trailer. A little more or less won't kill you, but more is better than less. The pics should be fixed. Yes this was probably the truck you saw and I figured to get one between the rails, I would need a short extension for it to fit there. Thanks for the info. Dan (Class of 2017) - 2012 Ram 3500 & 2005 Alpenlite Valhalla 29RK Contact me at rvsolarconsulting.com or Two Wheel Ramblin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLghtning Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 2 hours ago, MrSeas said: Something you want to verify before a hitch decision is made is the pin height you need for your trailer. Many toy hauler style trailers have higher than "normal" pin heights and may affect the height of your hitch. Pin height could allow more possibilities to what hitches you can use and their placement on your truck. Each truck has its "own" personality and you need to work with it. Okay, good to know and I wondered about that. I'll have to do some measuring on that and figure that out. Dan (Class of 2017) - 2012 Ram 3500 & 2005 Alpenlite Valhalla 29RK Contact me at rvsolarconsulting.com or Two Wheel Ramblin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Now that I see the pictures again, you might be able to squeeze a trailer Saver or an ET in there, but it is hard to say for sure without actual measurements. The hitch and its mounting hardware could replace the frame cross member and the end cap cross member and do double duty as a hitch and as frame stabilization. Once you get the truck in hand, get some good measurements and call Henry. He can tell you for sure. I concur with Mr. Seas in that you want to know what your toy haulers level pin height is so you can mount your hitch head height properly. 2009 Volvo 670 with dinette/workstation sleeper - Walter 2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard 2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan 2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage) 2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage) My First Solar Install Thread My Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the build My MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet! chadheiser.com West Coast HDT Rally Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldride Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 BlueLghtning Hey congrats on the truck. I saw this on the for sale forum and before I could sneeze an offer was made. It's a great looking truck. 2011 CAN-AM Spyder Rt SE5, 2010 Alpine 5th wheel, 1998 Vovlo VNL610 Hopefully 2 years 6 month till full time retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLghtning Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 11 hours ago, VegasFlyer said: Congratulations on your truck and trailer..... Thanks, I'm very excited. 28 minutes ago, oldride said: BlueLghtning Hey congrats on the truck. I saw this on the for sale forum and before I could sneeze an offer was made. It's a great looking truck. Yeah, I saw the truck as soon as it popped up and after talking to the owner for quite a bit of a time, I decided I better grab it as it met all my needs. Dan (Class of 2017) - 2012 Ram 3500 & 2005 Alpenlite Valhalla 29RK Contact me at rvsolarconsulting.com or Two Wheel Ramblin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan0043 Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, BlueLghtning said: Thanks, I'm very excited. Yeah, I saw the truck as soon as it popped up and after talking to the owner for quite a bit of a time, I decided I better grab it as it met all my needs. Hi Dan, Congratulations on your truck. If you go thru Texas on your way home there is a good guy that lives there. You just need to have a Dr. Pepper or too on hand. On the subject about hitch height. I am on the same page with the guys talking about starting with the trailer. My next step would be knowing what trailer hitch I would want to put on the truck. If you go with an ET hitch, it would be best to talk to Henry to see what the truck needs. If you want something other than an ET, there is enough people here that can give you dimensions what you would need to make calculation for the back of the truck. Best of luck on your project, Al 2012 Volvo VNL 630 w/ I-Shift; D13 engine; " Veeger " Redwood, model 3401R ; 5th Wheel Trailer, " Dead Wood " 2006 Smart Car " Killer Frog " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkennell Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 You need 2 things in your hitch...a hitch that will rock side to side and will cushion the impacts the big heavy truck frame & suspension will not. As somebody who started out with a truck with a rigid semi plate on it, I've seen the difference the 2-axis air hitch makes. Before, I could literally see the trailer twisting as I was moving on rough terrain, and things inside would get all shaken and beaten. After---rides like a dream. You can achieve this 2 ways--rigid 2 axis hitch head (like in one of your pics) and an air pinbox, OR a hitch like the ET/Trailersaver. The latter is the best solution. I agree that you should be able to remove the rear cross members and just slide the hitch in place with minimal issues. You might even be able to just remove the back one, and let the hitch mounting angles stick out a couple inches---3-4" would be no big deal out the back of the frame. 12" you need to add an extension. No camper at present. Way too many farm machines to maintain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chief916 Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 BlueLightning...congrats on the truck. Just to let you know...we have a 1997 Volvo WIA 64 that's been singled and has a small Leonard slide deck on the back and over the rear axle mounted on top of the frame rails like how you would mount in a pickup truck I put a trailsaver TS3 and bolted it to the chassis. We pull a Heartland 4100 toy box and believe it or not once I air up the hitch the whole rig looks and rides level. If I can ever figure out how to post my pix on here I will just so you have an idea. Once again congrats on the truck purchase. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLghtning Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, chief916 said: BlueLightning...congrats on the truck. Just to let you know...we have a 1997 Volvo WIA 64 that's been singled and has a small Leonard slide deck on the back and over the rear axle mounted on top of the frame rails like how you would mount in a pickup truck I put a trailsaver TS3 and bolted it to the chassis. We pull a Heartland 4100 toy box and believe it or not once I air up the hitch the whole rig looks and rides level. If I can ever figure out how to post my pix on here I will just so you have an idea. Once again congrats on the truck purchase. Ben If you can, please send the pics to me at BlueLghtning 'at' gmail.com. Thanks. Dan (Class of 2017) - 2012 Ram 3500 & 2005 Alpenlite Valhalla 29RK Contact me at rvsolarconsulting.com or Two Wheel Ramblin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 2 hours ago, chief916 said: If I can ever figure out how to post my pix on here I will just so you have an idea. Ben It's as easy as drag and drop: http://photoposting.is-great.net/?i=2 KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big5er Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 11 hours ago, alan0043 said: Hi Dan, If you go thru Texas on your way home there is a good guy that lives there. You just need to have a Dr. Pepper or too on hand. Shucks, Al...now I'm gonna blush....unless you were referring to RickW in Dallas Congrats, Dan. If you come through Houston on I-10, yell at me. I'm on the east side. MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~ 2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 2014 smart Fortwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLghtning Posted March 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 19 hours ago, Big5er said: Shucks, Al...now I'm gonna blush....unless you were referring to RickW in Dallas Congrats, Dan. If you come through Houston on I-10, yell at me. I'm on the east side. Thanks. Unless for some reason weather or something else diverts me further south, I plan on sticking to I-40 for my drive home. Although the difference between I-10 & I-40 is only about 66 miles or a little over an hour, but if I remember there are sections of I-10 that are in rough shape. BTW, I bought my plane ticket today and will fly out next Thursday in the evening. I'll work with Joe to get everything settled on Friday and then start heading East for Atlanta. Dan (Class of 2017) - 2012 Ram 3500 & 2005 Alpenlite Valhalla 29RK Contact me at rvsolarconsulting.com or Two Wheel Ramblin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 Can anyone with TralerSaver post it's dimensions. If memory serves me right, 32 long, 24 wide, head at 11 inches, inflated. Need the numbers for a design I'm doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 2 hours ago, phoenix2013 said: Can anyone with TralerSaver post it's dimensions. If memory serves me right, 32 long, 24 wide, head at 11 inches, inflated. Need the numbers for a design I'm doing Base is 32" long by 23" wide. The front of the hitch to the center of hitch head is 24". 2009 Volvo 670 with dinette/workstation sleeper - Walter 2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard 2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan 2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage) 2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage) My First Solar Install Thread My Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the build My MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet! chadheiser.com West Coast HDT Rally Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasFlyer Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 Henry, If nobody jumps in, I will try and get you some measurements over the weekend. Also, what is the narrowest dimension on the ET, regular or Senior? We are looking at swapping over in a couple years. The only reason we went with the TS hitch, we got it off of Craigslist for 350.00, from someone who bought it at a liquidation auction. Had almost no use. John Southern Nevada 2008 Volvo 780, D13, I-Shift 2017 Keystone Fuzion 420 Toyhauler 2017 Can-Am Maverick X3-RS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 11 hours ago, Chad Heiser said: Base is 32" long by 23" wide. The front of the hitch to the center of hitch head is 24". Thanks Chad, is the head inflated at around 11"? I know the front hinge area is higher. 11 hours ago, VegasFlyer said: Henry, If nobody jumps in, I will try and get you some measurements over the weekend. Also, what is the narrowest dimension on the ET, regular or Senior? We are looking at swapping over in a couple years. The only reason we went with the TS hitch, we got it off of Craigslist for 350.00, from someone who bought it at a liquidation auction. Had almost no use. TrailerSaver is a good hitch and is being used with thousands, if not tens of thousands of trailers. I did not design the ET to be used with tens of thousands of trailers, for most of these an ET would be an overkill. TrailerSaver was designed when trailers were much lighter and it's fine with these. The biggest and heaviest trailers (the ones you guys like) will wear out a TrailerSaver in short order. I had to upgrade ETs twice to keep up with the weight increases in the "super heavies", TrailerSaver has not made that effort. The original ET was designed 10 years ago for a trailer I purchased "then", which weighed 23,500 lb GVW with a pin weight of 6,500 lb, only twenty of these were ever built. ET comes with the mounting plate (as part of the hitch) 32 1/2 inches wide and 34 1/4 inches long. It also comes with the two mounting angles to mount the plate to the frame rails. TrailerSaver or any other similar hitch will require that you purchase those items and do lot more drilling than just mounting the hitch to the rails (six holes) Only two hitches were ever designed with anti chucking from the start Gene McCalls hitch (no longer made) and an ET. Any other hitch manufacturer claiming anti chucking "capability" or "reduction", is making stuff up. Enough of "comparison". $350 Trailer Saver is not a good deal, it's a larceny, you should be in jail. You have the dimensions for the ET Sr. An ET Jr. is very close (now that I have numbers from Chad) to the size of the TralerSaver. Jr is 32 long, 24 wide and 11 1/2 tall. Jr. requires that you have a mounting plate already in the truck, it does not come with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 On 3/29/2017 at 6:04 PM, BlueLghtning said: After lurking on this forum for a long time waiting to find my HDT, I fnally have one picked out. I'm purchasing a 2000 Volvo 610 which is singled short, but currently only has a goose neck ball on it. I'll be flying out to CA in a week or two to drive it home to GA, however one of the first things I'll need to do once I'm home is add a 5th wheel hitch to it. Just also this week we found our 2012 Keystone Raptor 4014LEV we'll be purchasing so that will be the trailer we'll be hauling. Thankfully the trailer is only 15mins away and they have agreed to store it on their property until we get the truck sorted. I found the trailer in my back yard, but the truck is across the country. haha. I know Henry and the ET hitch come in at the top of recomendations on this forum, but I also see lots of people are very happy with the Trail Saver TSLB2H which should work just fine with my my trailer setup also. Any others to look at also that work on our HDT setups? So what kind of range are you looking at for a 5th wheel hitch and the different options available and where you can mount it? Do some work up on the frame rail while others must sit down in between the rails like the ET hitch does? I'm sure a lot depends on the hitch and what mods you have to make to your truck to make it work. I wasn't expecting to find the HDT we wanted and the trailer in the same week so I'm going to have to pace myself on mods until my bank account recovers a bit. Finding both this week though sure lit a fire for my wife and I to get busy and put our plan into motion. Although my trailer is registered as a 2012 Keystone Raptor 4014LEV, it has the floor layout of the 2011 model so it must have been a late bloomer that got labeled as a 2012. Either way, the GVWR is 18k on either trailer with a hitch pin weight of 3075 - 3430 between the 2 years. Mine is probably on the lighter end. I know it probably depends on the trailer, but what ball park hitch height do you usually aim for on a standard trailer like the Keystone Raptor model? also, if anyone is on my route from CA to GA on I-40/I-22/I-20 has a hitch sitting there collecting dust you want sell, I'd be in the market and could pick up on my way home! This is what my truck looks like now with no bed and just a Goose Neck setup as it was used to haul a horse trailer. Here's the Goose Neck hookup. I think my preference would be to put the 5th wheel here, but would I have to have the frame extended a bit? This recent setup posted by Henry shows that this truck must have have the frame extended a bit to fit this ET hitch, plus it sits down in between the rails so it needs room there too? As for a bed, If we do anything it will just be a small platform to carry a motorcycle or two behind the cab similar to this, but a little smaller to fit the space I have available. as I look at this picture, I realize that hitch looks pretty simple on this truck? Is that just a standard 5th wheel hitch bolted to the frame rails on that plate? I guess if that isn't air ride hitch though that would be rougher on the 5th wheel unless maybe his 5th wheel hitch has air ride on it? BlueLightning, take a good measurements on the frame you have from that brace behind the axle to the end of the slope of the rails. I would guess that you have only about two feet. Not enough length for frame mounted air hitches. Extending the rails is not a big deal, I took some pictures of the "process" on this last truck I did, will be happy to post it. Just noticed that rear most (angled brace) was removed before and remounted with "regular" bolts. That makes the job of taking it out easy. From the factory they are typically mounted with huck bolts which only come off with a torch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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