Stitcon Elemination, Dirty Injectors, Disel Fuel in the oil...........

[NoDirectionHome]

As rickeieio explained, it's not a pretty picture once the additive package can no longer keep the debris in suspension

 

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29026/engine-bypass-filtration

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

An idea might be to use the additives say 500 to 1000 miles before an oil change.

For myself and the way we travel, I could add the "Secret" do a days drive and find a Speedco at the end of the day. Have oil and filters changed while everything is still in solution and warm.

 

In the past on different vehicles, I have used Stanadyne additives for diesels. Using a bench test for injectors, run the injectors and measure the flow rate etc. Run the cleaner thru the injectors and retest. It did improve the spray pattern, flow rate, literally clean the carbon off the tips etc.

But to my knowledge the isn't an additive that repairs springs, fixes cracked injector tips, resolders broken injector circuits etc.

 

On the oil additive side, there are cleaners and such that will help clean the engine enternals. My experience with racing engines is that oil is cheap, engines are not. Change you oil often and the engine internals stay clean.

[noteven]

I've been thinking about a by-pass system on this truck - it is getting far higher % "working" (towing) time now than before

[beyerjf]

On most modern engines, the oil is picked up in the sump and pumped through the "full flow" filters then to the rest of the engines. So in theory all oil circulating has passed through a filter before landing on wear surfaces. A couple of caveats. If pressure is to high on cold startup a valve will tempoarily bypass those filters until it gets warm enough to flow through the filters without starving the engine. Another consideration is the full flow filters by necessity are limited to how small the microns can be to keep things flowing. That is where bypass systems, which have a much smaller micron dimension are helpful. Although they don't get the oil every trip through the engine, over time the are very effective at getting very small impurities out of the oil.

 

Very large engines, RR locomotives, large marine or industrial engines where the crankcase capacity maybe in the hundreds of gallons or more, and an "oil change" is impractical utilize bypass systems with excellent results.

[Jack Mayer]

I've always thought a bypass system was a good idea on any engine. I ran one on my 7.3 Ford for many years. I cannot prove that it helped anything, but it sure did keep the oil in good shape. At 50K miles it was still testing like new.....pretty much. But I chickened out and changed it anyway.

 

I'm considering putting a bypass on my new truck. It only has 200K on the D13 and I'd kinda like to keep it in terrific shape for the next owner.

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

Jeff- Do the centrifuge type bypass systems work as well as advertised? What do most professional owner operators do? Secondary bypass filter or ?

[RandyA]

 

I'm considering putting a bypass on my new truck. It only has 200K on the D13 and I'd kinda like to keep it in terrific shape for the next owner.

I take it the D13 does not have a by-pass system like the D12? For the non-D12D owners we have two full flow oil filters and one by-pass filter. I like that feature. The by-pass filter discussion reminds me of both my early 50's Studebaker's and Chevy six cylinder engines. The only filter was a by-pass, and that was an option. There was a kit that allowed the use of a roll of toilet paper for the filter element. I bought one from JC Whitney back in the day - not sure how much filtering it actually accomplished. Use of non-detergent straight 30W oil and 1,500 mile oil changes were the norm. In retrospect, when they switched over to full flow filters putting on an additional by-pass snatched from an earlier engine might have been a good option, but I never even thought of that back then .

 

The amount of "cleaned up" varnish and dirt from injectors and upper cylinder components removed by fuel cleaner additives that end up in the engine oil is minuscule. What's cleaned off will be blown out the exhaust.

[beyerjf]

Very few owner operators or fleets use any sort of bypass filter system. They just change the oil at say 15k intervals. However, all of the post 2007 hd diesels with dpf filters/ egr have some sort of bypass oil filter system built in, which is how the manufacturers upped the standard oil change interval to 50k miles for on highway use.

I experimented with a modern day Luberfiner bypass filter. It was the same size as the full flow filters but with a 1 micron rating. After about 100,000 miles and several oil analysis comparisons it didn't seem to improve anything, and the filter cartridges were like $60. Not cost effective. I can't speak to centrifuge types or the other brands on the market, like OP-1 or Gulf Filters. Lots of hype in that end of the industry.

Studebaker didn't put any filtration on until making bypass filters optional in the early 50's. Didn't go to full flow until 1962. But engines back then used to turn in a mass of sludge at 30k miles. The lubricants and engine design has come a long way.

[jkennell]

Want to go back to the "how much per tank" discussion. Maybe somebody commented already--but treat only the Gallons you ADD to the tank each time. Otherwise your blend will get stronger and stronger.....

[RandyA]

In talking to the guy at Lubrication Specialists he commented that a stronger blend in the fuel tank would not hurt anything, but it would be wasteful as it would not help the clean-up process either. That, to me, was an unexpected statement as most want you to spend all the money you can as often as you can. Now, back to Jeff-C's statement. My initial treatment was 64 ounces for each full 150 gallon tank. I put the normal full amount at 140 gallons per tank or 280 gallons total. If I had run my tanks down to about 20 gallons each (240 gallons burned) I would, in theory, have completed the average recommended cleaning cycle. But, I never let my tanks get that low for multiple reasons. I like to refill when I am down 150 to 200 gallons. After my initial treatment I refilled each tank with 80 gallons of diesel so I added 1 quart of cleaner to each tank. I will not add any more cleaner at my next refill. After 2-3 refills I will start using the Hot Shot EDT (Every Day Treatment).

 

I am perfectly aware that some reading this will contend that no additives are ever needed in diesel fuel and I am wasting my money on snake oil. If so, it is what it is. But, either divine intervention was bestowed upon me by the mythical Volvo gods or the darn stuff worked to get a problematic fuel injector working right again. In my book (checkbook) that is enough proof for me.

 

I liked Jeff-B's reply on Studebakers - I've got a felling he owned some as well . I owned several "back when" starting with a '48 flat head six, then a 232 V8 in a '54 coupe which I replaced with a 259 V8, then another flat head six in a '56 Transtar pick-up that was replaced with a 289 V8 with overdrive (full flow oil filter engine). Eventually a '64 Lark with the 283 Chevy engine and Ford transmission ended up in my ever changing stable of Studes. Another Lowey ('53 hardtop) that ended up getting a 340 Mopar and Torqueflite transplant before I gave up fighting the rust mites. Raymond Lowey was the designer of the cars - even the Avanti.

 

Now, to the by-pass filter and Jeff-B's post..... I have been replacing the by-pass filter along with the full flow filters at each oil change. I do remember the parts guy at our Volvo dealership commenting to me that a new by-pass filter was not needed at each of my low mileage oil changes (annual, not mileage based). Perhaps I could forgo replacing the by-pass filter? Pro or Con?

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

Randy, Please don't misread my posts as saying it's snake oil or such. I have had an early 1992 5.9 Cummins in a rusted out Dodge. As the sulfur rating was dropped lower and lower many folks started using 2 stroke oil mixed with the diesel to help the lubricity. Even in the later year 5.9 it would help quiet them down some.

If it has helped your engine and continues to then great!

[RandyA]

Randy, Please don't misread my posts as saying it's snake oil or such. I have had an early 1992 5.9 Cummins in a rusted out Dodge. As the sulfur rating was dropped lower and lower many folks started using 2 stroke oil mixed with the diesel to help the lubricity. Even in the later year 5.9 it would help quiet them down some.

If it has helped your engine and continues to then great!

I didn't and won't (misread). I am still a skeptic when it comes to oil or fuel additive products - personally I don't believe in the hype that is usually in advertising. But, this is my first diesel and I have discovered they are truly different animals than gas engines - much dirtier inside.

[Jack Mayer]

Randy, I can clearly see that injection cleaner can help....and if a fuel additive is effective in that cleaning, so much the better. And clearly, fuel additive is appropriate for Algae control and water control. So you will get no arguement from me. I'd argue against/for specific performance of specific products, but you have to have enough data to do that. I'd say if you are getting results, then that is EXCELLENT and certainly worth a try.

 

As to the oil bypass. That clearly has plenty of data to support it. It is a very good idea, IMO. For us, it may not matter, but it has to be better for the engine. We just don't drive the trucks enough for us to see the benefit over the many miles that would be required. But it is still "better". When running bypass filters I changed them at the interval the manuf (of the system) recommended.

[Pat & Pete]

You guys might check this manufacture : https://www.combustionusa.com/

[alan0043]

On 2/7/2017 at 9:23 PM, RandyA said:

I didn't and won't (misread). I am still a skeptic when it comes to oil or fuel additive products - personally I don't believe in the hype that is usually in advertising. But, this is my first diesel and I have discovered they are truly different animals than gas engines - much dirtier inside.

Hi Randy,

I am curious to know how things are going with the engine in your truck at this date (01-06-2018). It is almost a year that has gone by since you started this thread. I thought it is important to keep all the information about the additives in one place. I started a thread about Hot Shot Secret products not knowing about your thread. Carl pointed me in the right direction. Can you please give us an update.

Al

[Cotreker]

I am a regular user of Amsoil fuel additive for both cleaning and winter treatment for very cold temps (Colorado).  Have used this for years in my Ford Powerstroke and now in my 2006 670 Volvo.  Years ago a collage professor told our engine rebuilding class to not use additives.  Technology and fuels have changed a great deal in 35 years.  I also keep a few bottles of Sea Foam around for generators, sleds and ATV's.  It does not take much crud to clog up a pilot jet and Sea Foam has done wonders keeping me out of carbs and EFI systems, can also be run in diesel fuel.

[alan0043]

Hi Randy,

I was hoping you would see this thread. I am curious to see what you think about Hot Shot additives now. Any comments would be great.

Al

[RandyA]

10 hours ago, alan0043 said:

Hi Randy,

I was hoping you would see this thread. I am curious to see what you think about Hot Shot additives now. Any comments would be great.

Al

Well, I am currently using the EDT additive and no damage has been done by using it.  I get only a few drops of water when I drain the bottom of my Davco filter so I believe it has helped to reduce moisture from condensation that collected in my tanks.  The filter element in my Davco was changed in April and is still at the same level 4,000 miles later.  It rose to the change level within 2,000 miles after adding the Hot Shot to my fuel.  I believe my overall engine performance is improved and the beast runs quieter - but that may be due to some hearing loss.  I did have a hard electrical failure of injector #1 this past summer.  I gave the replacement job to the Volvo shop.  The mechanic commented that the failed injector was very clean as was the top end of the engine.  Several years ago when the injector cups were replaced I was told that the injectors were extremely dirty.  Something changed something in the interim.  IMHO, the claims for a cetane increase that will improve performance have not been realized.  The overall cetane rating of my fuel may be higher but it doesn't seem to make a difference in engine power.  I did observe an improvement in fuel mileage and power after my initial regimen of additives - maybe the cetane improvement was part of that but I can't definitively say that was or was not the reason.  I do not believe my conclusions are because I expected improvement and therefore created it in my mind.  I believe the stuff really helped.

My personal feeling is that if you decide to use an additive the Hot Shot options could very well be more beneficial than some of the other products - but I have not used all of the other products.  I cannot give you hard fact-based data that proves the manufacturer's claims for the product.  All I have is my antidotal observations which in my opinion are encouraging.  I will continue to use the Hot Shot products as directed.

[alan0043]

13 hours ago, RandyA said:

Well, I am currently using the EDT additive and no damage has been done by using it.  I get only a few drops of water when I drain the bottom of my Davco filter so I believe it has helped to reduce moisture from condensation that collected in my tanks.  The filter element in my Davco was changed in April and is still at the same level 4,000 miles later.  It rose to the change level within 2,000 miles after adding the Hot Shot to my fuel.  I believe my overall engine performance is improved and the beast runs quieter - but that may be due to some hearing loss.  I did have a hard electrical failure of injector #1 this past summer.  I gave the replacement job to the Volvo shop.  The mechanic commented that the failed injector was very clean as was the top end of the engine.  Several years ago when the injector cups were replaced I was told that the injectors were extremely dirty.  Something changed something in the interim.  IMHO, the claims for a cetane increase that will improve performance have not been realized.  The overall cetane rating of my fuel may be higher but it doesn't seem to make a difference in engine power.  I did observe an improvement in fuel mileage and power after my initial regimen of additives - maybe the cetane improvement was part of that but I can't definitively say that was or was not the reason.  I do not believe my conclusions are because I expected improvement and therefore created it in my mind.  I believe the stuff really helped.

My personal feeling is that if you decide to use an additive the Hot Shot options could very well be more beneficial than some of the other products - but I have not used all of the other products.  I cannot give you hard fact-based data that proves the manufacturer's claims for the product.  All I have is my antidotal observations which in my opinion are encouraging.  I will continue to use the Hot Shot products as directed.

Hi Randy,

Thank you so much for your response. Any product that can keep the inside of the engine clean is a product that is working as advertised. Roger (hewhoknowslittle) was the one who told me about Hot Shot products. I believe he is also having good results with the Hot Shot products. 

Thank you again for your opinion,
Al