phoenix2013 Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Just a start of intellectual musings (about two hours worth) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sclord2002 Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 If it's a hamburger press, it needs a stop on the non-hinged end to keep the patties uniformly thick. If it's part of a hitch, it has interesting bag placement. C'mon Henry....don't keep us in suspenders. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappir Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 4 bag semi independent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sclord2002 Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Henry, I'm willing to be your test dummy, as I am in Florida now. I still don't know what it is but I have quite a bit of confidence in any thing you decide is worthwhile. I know you think outside the box but you always seem to consider operating parameters that many manufacturers don't address or even think of, in their products. Now, what the heck is it ?? The suspense is killing me !! Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Sure looks like the next generation of hitch. Mega capacity. I'll go even further out this skinny limb, and say Jack gets the first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alie&Jim's Carrilite Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 10K Pin weight, 50k capacity, ETSuper Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSeas Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I'm guessing that has something to do with the customer that requested a hitch above the normal capacities of the existing hitch selections! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buscrusher Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Looks kinda like a Super-ET-Jr...2 large air bags...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted January 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 10K Pin weight, 50k capacity, ETSuper Max I'm guessing that has something to do with the customer that requested a hitch above the normal capacities of the existing hitch selections! Bingo and bingo, preliminary design concept, those are two 8,000 lb air bags for 16K total. Also thinking a 13.5K + 8K and two 13.5K bags. I thought I might have just one customer, then I got another call, apparently New Horizon built a toyhauler with a 9K pin weight when loaded. Currently pulled with a TrailerSaver (carefully), that poor TrailerSaver runs at 135 psi just to come up to level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alie&Jim's Carrilite Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 The Space Craft Semi units are not light. That was a guess based on recent talks with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted January 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 The Space Craft Semi units are not light. That was a guess based on recent talks with them. yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refuzn-To-Grow-Up Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Bingo and bingo, preliminary design concept, those are two 8,000 lb air bags for 16K total. Also thinking a 13.5K + 8K and two 13.5K bags. I thought I might have just one customer, then I got another call, apparently New Horizon built a toyhauler with a 9K pin weight when loaded. Currently pulled with a TrailerSaver (carefully), that poor TrailerSaver runs at 135 psi just to come up to level. I would love to see photos of the toy hauler! Got any? Or, a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted January 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 I would love to see photos of the toy hauler! Got any? Or, a link? Interesting thing about the truck. The owner originally had a beauty of an MDT hauler, all tricked out, but the thing didn't have enough balls to deal with the NH. He found this HDT, it's old but in superb shape, 15 liter CAT with insanely low miles, they haven't even started to break it in before they sold it, he had it singled and now is waiting for the "real hitch". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Looks like 4 axles and they appear to really be far back too. Should tow beautifully. Got to have serious pin weight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Dreamer Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 and I thought 3 axles were a pain, no tight turns for that trailer. If NH did 4 axles for a mini cooper, I hate to think what they would suggest for our 6k+ vehicle we put in the back of our toyhauler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Might just be the picture nut it looks long too. I don't see 3 axles any more issues than two. Yes more costs. That tire always looks like it will come off rim on concrete if I have to cut it sharp. Never does though. But I have never seen a 4 axle rv either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdickinson Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 There was a 4 axle Teton around a decade ago or so, saw the picture. Perhaps deal with 4th axle like they do on a single assist wheel on some gravel trucks. Raise it up when turning then drop it down when done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 There were 4 axle Tetons, and there have been 4 axle New Horizon units. Most of the Tetons I'm familiar with were exported. Henry, do you have weights on that rig?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted January 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 The customer told me but it slipped my mind, it was up there but did not seem to be "too exorbitant" for the ETs, The problem is the pin weight, it's over 9.000 pounds. He did tell New Horizon to put the axles that far back so that the Mini would not offload the pin, but apparently the stuff forward of the axles made a big difference when these went back. This design would be just right with 16K of airbags, but I'm also trying to figure out how to deal with 12K pin weights. I don't think the march upwards in lengths, weights and pin weight is going to stop. I watched you video, what effect did the straight pin box have on Mark's DRV? I saw the motion after we put the bumps in his ET and he told me it was a great improvement, from what I saw it was still pretty disgusting, I hate to see what it was like before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Henry, Marc said he was going to follow up with a usage report to you. But basically the change totally resolved his issues. A big "win" on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDirectionHome Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 I watched you video, what effect did the straight pin box have on Mark's DRV I ran some number based on the displayed numbers and an estimated pin to trailer length. It (24") only takes 330lbs off the pin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 So, if the trend in heavier units continues, will, at some point, air hitches become unnecessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted January 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Theoretically yes, but you have to consider other things: RVs are not tractor trailers, they don't flex, they can't flex with all that stuff hanging from the walls and and on the walls. They don't carry cargo, wrapped, strapped, on the pallets and lashed to the walls. And not everyone wants to eat from paper plates only and drink from plastic cups only. They are not built to tractor trailer industry standards expecting to travel fully loaded to to 60K hundreds of thousand of miles for years. Most of their frames come from Lippert and for those you better have an air hitch to isolate them from the truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted January 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Henry, Marc said he was going to follow up with a usage report to you. But basically the change totally resolved his issues. A big "win" on that one. I would guess that the pin weight hasn't changed much, if at all, maybe Marc can confirm that. I'm thinking that changing the distance towards the trailer axles incresed the hysteresis and introduced more damping. My other guess would be that with the extended pin box things were at resonance and moving it back disturbed the resonance and towards damping. IN THE MEANTIME, DRV is still in this mode. Had a discussion with a prospective customer, "do you know the pin weight, GVWR"? Kind of important when specifying a hitch. The sales guy was able to to provide the GVWR "guess" from so many Ks to so many Ks. Pin weight, forget it, not in any brochure, not in any sales info, regional manager didn't know either, finally after a call to the manufacturer a number was produced. Apparently there is only one engineer at the factory who can produce it, when he is found. And naturally for the size and weight of the rig it was quite low (in my not so humble opinion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Av8r3400 Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Why have four single tire axles with the associated handling complications when two dual tire axles would do the same weight (or more) and handle so much better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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