dartmouth01 Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Hi guys, so desperate situations call for desperate measures. We've been travelling in single digit temps or below for the past week, as we cross the country to get to Maine for the holidays. If I we were standing still, I would be able to keep the rig warm enough for the water system to work even in these temps (skirting, heat lamps, etc) but driving in these temps are requiring some more creative thinking. I have winterized the water pipes, but we still use jugs to flush the toilet, etc. I have heated tanks, but the dump valves were poorly laid out and there are exposed waste pipes and dump valves. Even mixing in a couple gallons of RV antifreeze doesn't keep the valves and exposed pipes from freezing (RV antifreeze even crystallizes at these temps, I've found), so I'm thinking of adding rubbing alcohol into the waste tanks to keep them from freezing over, and hopefully the valves as well. Any negatives to this besides cost? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Second Chance Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) is flammable... ignites easily and burns nicely. I wouldn't put anything flammable in a holding tank in my rig. Completely draining the tanks and adding several gallons of RV antifreeze (check the minimum temp to which the brand protects) would be preferable. Rob 2012 F350 CC LB DRW 6.7 2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS, disc brakes, solar, DP windows Full-time since 8/2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjhunter01 Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 How about some heat tape used around the valves and exposed piping? You could even plug it into a inverter while traveling or just wait until parked to thaw everything out. I would caution what you put into your tanks, especially anything toxic that might harm a septic system. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dartmouth01 Posted December 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Already found that -50 degrees antifreeze doesn't work, still freezes at full concentration (doesn't burst till -50 tho). So when mixed with water in the tank, the effectiveness is further reduced. The major ingradients of rv antifreeze are alcohol, propylene glycol, and water, so I am thinking I'll just up the alcohol concentration, unless a source of propylene glycol is available readily and not too expensive? I also thought of the flammable issue but of it is mixing with water in the tank, how much risk is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dartmouth01 Posted December 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 I may end up trying this, though currently I don't have an internal inverter system, and even running power to the heat tape would require an extension cord outside while driving down the road. I'm inclined to try alcohol first, I've read antedotal evidence that would support my idea, so I may just be a guinea pig. This is not a long term solution, just something I would need to do when the temps drop down to near zero, and rv antifreeze won't cut it. How about some heat tape used around the valves and exposed piping? You could even plug it into a inverter while traveling or just wait until parked to thaw everything out. I would caution what you put into your tanks, especially anything toxic that might harm a septic system. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyretired Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Propylene glycol is used in solar hotwater systems and is readily available. If you were near me I have 5 gallons in my garage but that is in Colorado. Randy 2001 Volvo VNL 42 Cummins ISX Autoshift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbaraok Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 Already found that -50 degrees antifreeze doesn't work, still freezes at full concentration (doesn't burst till -50 tho). So when mixed with water in the tank, the effectiveness is further reduced. The major ingradients of rv antifreeze are alcohol, propylene glycol, and water, so I am thinking I'll just up the alcohol concentration, unless a source of propylene glycol is available readily and not too expensive? I also thought of the flammable issue but of it is mixing with water in the tank, how much risk is there? Actually, full strength will not provide -50° protection. That is what you get when mixed 50/50 - - it is called colligative properties, but essentially the more particles in the mixture the greater the protection. Isopropanol is not what you want to use, you want the propylene glycol - has more OH groups which helps prevent water from forming ice crystals. Barb Barb & Dave O'Keeffe 2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dartmouth01 Posted December 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 Thanks Barb. Anyone know where I could obtain propylene glycol? Solar shop sounds like an option, guess it isn't something stocked at auto zone or home depot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyretired Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 Amazon has it and I have seen it on ebay Randy 2001 Volvo VNL 42 Cummins ISX Autoshift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp51443 Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 Generic Miralax can be fairly cheap in an emergency, ordering the powder/liquid is cheaper if you have time. As Barb suggested don't add too much, just a small amount and add more as you add water. https://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_pg_2?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Apolyethylene+glycol&page=2&keywords=polyethylene+glycol&ie=UTF8&qid=1481949026&spIA=B00KDOT734,B00RC2FHPW First rule of computer consulting: Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day. Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dartmouth01 Posted December 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 Miralax? Interesting, clears blockages in multiple ways, eh? Thanks, I bet walmart has that on the shelf, may come in handy in a couple days. It warms up in Cinncinati tomorrow but then back to cold temps as we head north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarvan Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 Even though the "pink" turns slushy, it is still a long ways from turning solid and doing any damage. I have winter camped and used 50/50 in gallon jugs as the flushing agent. That way I don't have to worry about what the mixture is down there. As far as flammables down there....... I think the methane concentration I create is far more dangerous than some rubbing alcohol. Previously a 2017 Forest River, Berkshire 38A, "The Dragonship". https://dragonship.blog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray,IN Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Hi guys, so desperate situations call for desperate measures. We've been travelling in single digit temps or below for the past week, as we cross the country to get to Maine for the holidays. If I we were standing still, I would be able to keep the rig warm enough for the water system to work even in these temps (skirting, heat lamps, etc) but driving in these temps are requiring some more creative thinking. I have winterized the water pipes, but we still use jugs to flush the toilet, etc. I have heated tanks, but the dump valves were poorly laid out and there are exposed waste pipes and dump valves. Even mixing in a couple gallons of RV antifreeze doesn't keep the valves and exposed pipes from freezing (RV antifreeze even crystallizes at these temps, I've found), so I'm thinking of adding rubbing alcohol into the waste tanks to keep them from freezing over, and hopefully the valves as well. Any negatives to this besides cost? Thanks! Use RV anti-freeze, it's the cheapest protection you can buy. Some brands protect to -50F, and on sale cost $1.99/G at Menards. I always buy a case each fall; use about 2.5G if I winterize, and carry 2G for holding tank protection until we get far enough S to de-winterize. I pour 1G into each holding tank first, that mostly lays down in the valve plumbing, which prevents freezing. The sloshing from driving mixes added contents with it. Don't believe the folks who say RV anti-freeze is toxic or harms the environment. You eat the active ingredient every day in processed food. SDS for Peak RV anti-freeze 2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dartmouth01 Posted December 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 I used rv antifreeze. It still froze @ 0 degrees. As other have mentioned, it will turn slushy, tho it won't burst till -50. When mixed with waste water as well, it gets diluted and freezes faster. I'm out of the super cold for now (mid 20s now) but I'm trying out mixing propylene glycol in powder form ( miralax generic from walmart) to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp51443 Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 If using liquid antifreeze in the holding tanks you might want to go with concentrate instead of pre-mixed, that would take less volume to get the same level of protection. https://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=concentrate+RV++antifreeze First rule of computer consulting: Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day. Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slackercruster Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 I've used window diluted washer fluid in a pinch, but only in the traps and cassette toilet tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarvan Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 ZERO? Holy cow...... Previously a 2017 Forest River, Berkshire 38A, "The Dragonship". https://dragonship.blog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 Methanol will mix with water. I forget what ratio will freeze at what temperatures.... "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sehc Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 If you keep your holding tanks empty, any antifreeze will work. Any rubbing alcohol mixed with water will freeze. https://smile.amazon.com/Safe-Anti-Freeze-Coolant-Year-Green/dp/B001444SCM/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1487285980&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=evirmental+safe+antifreeze+coolant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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