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Dollytrolley

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Thank you Phill. My wife fells better about my trucks singage. She bugged till I had them put on. I am prepared for the Leo too. Printed out Texas titling pdf info and high lighted our section. Also all regestraction in book for them. And ,yes, I do expect to get stopped.

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

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I to have a copy of motor home definitions laws and regs on board. When I went to Portland to pick it (the truck) up and bring it home I put them(sings) on to get it home .It still had commercial hitch on it. I removed the air hoses and power cord .don't know what good it did. but you know if your going to get pulled over your going to get pulled over know matter whether you have them (sings) or not .It would not be the first time. I found that, yes sir no sir I will get it fixed asap goes along way. I actually borrowed a flash light from a officer to fix a fuse. Dolly trolly yup went out checked on sings and there still there. Might as well get my moneys worth out of them. Last thing I need is another bad mark on dmv record. I have not retired yet and still need my cdl license. Dont want to risk it

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I suppose some folks shoot themselves in the head by plastering logos and sponsor company names all over their truck & Trailer....too much signage to claim the HDT exemptions....

 

So assuming you have your "proof-of-private-HDT-RV-binder" aboard it seems a bit odd that you are being charged with the task of educating a LEO regarding a HDT RV exempt status.

 

Now some folks might....hint...that certain LEO's MIGHT ...just might be checking for excess Dr Pepper aboard and of guilty parties should forfeit the excess the Dr Pepper promptly....after all most LEO pack heat...

 

In our present configuration with the 20 ft Morgan cargo box with roll up back door and curb-side side door and NO signage at all I have wondered how long it will take to get pulled over while I am Bob tailing...

 

Most HDT RV tractors with nicely crafted beds and a Smart loaded look pretty RV, and most RV trailers hitched to the HDT can easily be checked out by running the plates of both truck and trailer to see if private ownership is indicated.

 

It seems that the practice of private ownership of the rigs through a LLC while legal might muddy the waters when trying to explain your RV exempt status.

 

As far as hauling for commerce we only haul one trail riding horse named Dolly and we carry transport papers proving ownership and the FBI would never be able to prove any commercial use of Dolly-the-paint-horse except that Dollyomma does throw a ton $$$ at feed stores and once every six month vet checkups....

 

Once in a while someone asks if I might haul something for them in the cargo box of the Dollytrolley and I explain that the RV status is best retained by only hauling our own junk. Some folks say oh shucks don't worry if you get caught they will pay the ticket so....when I drive up to their place in a rented U-Haul truck (rented 3 times) they ask why I did not bring the Dollytrolley for the short haul....I just grin and tell the truth....when the Dollytrolley air system drops below 70 PSI the spring brake auto-sets and the Trolley won't budge.

 

Renting a U-Haul is a little like paying a fine without having to pass out a lot of Dr Pepper AND almost certainly less Hassel and $$$ than getting cited for DOT infractions...

 

Drive on.....(U-Haul rentals have a place)

97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S

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So this seems like a good place to break out the old binder and go over everything. My binder is fairly empty thou. it contains

 

Color copy of the vehicle title showing it as an RV.

The official registration document.

Insurance card, as well as the policy outlining the RV coverage.

Color copies of mine and the DWs driver licenses.

Health records for our 3 dogs.

the next may seem strange to some but since we often travel into and out of the US to Canada. It also contains official copy's of our birth certificates.

 

What else would be handy to have in there? perhaps some state or federal regulations showing the RV exemptions? or RV criteria? Pictures of the get up parked in campgrounds?

 

Keep in mind we bought the truck over the phone. And flew in with plates and registration and the binder. Drove it to an RV dealer and bought a 5er. And drove it home, 4800 miles. Through 8 states and 2 Canadian provinces. One only one that even blinked was an ag check point entering Oregon. They simply asked who I worked for, I told them I was a Telecom Engineer in Alaska. They said no who are you hauling for. I responded the truck and trailer are my personal property(trailer had dealer plates). She said okay, just wanted to make sure you were not a hot shot or RV delivery guy have a good trip. Drove past every other weight station open or closed along the entire route.

2016 Road Warrior 420

2001 Volvo VNL 660

Alaska Based.

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So assuming you have your "proof-of-private-HDT-RV-binder" aboard it seems a bit odd that you are being charged with the task of educating a LEO regarding a HDT RV exempt status.

Like I've said, by definition we ARE commercial motor vehicles. That much is obvious to anyone looking and we may or may not be exempt from the regs. I have had truck drivers ask me if all I do is haul rv's for a living and I have to explain that all I haul is MY rv.

 

Think of it, not so much as educating, as explaining. You are missing a very fine point, just because you have a "proof-of-private-HDT-RV-binder" doesn't mean you qualify for the exemption. Simply because you are a "private-HDT-RV" and have a book that says so doesn't mean that you are not using your "private HDT RV" for a commercial usage. It's not that cut and dry. The pictures I posted above prove that. Even though he has a "private HDT RV" what he was doing is still commercial. His book looks just like yours....the RV is his and IS an RV, trailer is his also...but he is pulling his race car to the track with his private HDT RV, where he races for money. So while he has the "proof-of-private-HDT-RV-binder" that is 100 percent accurate, he is still using his private HDT RV in a commercial operation and no longer qualifies for the exemption. That is the problem with our trucks. We are using commercial motor vehicles for a non conventional use. That is all fine and dandy...and totally legal, IF we are really engaged in that non commercial use. But a lot of people are claiming an exemption they are not entitled to. If everyone was honest, we would have it made. But until the dis-honest crowd changes their ways, we can expect to have to prove that we qualify for the exemption. You can do it in court or on the side of the road. That choice is yours. If you want to call it "educating" the officer, then you may have issues someday. If you look at it as explaining that you are an honest person, engaged in an activity that is exempted from the regulations that 99.9999% of the other trucks on the road do not get then you will be one step ahead of the dishonest crowd. And you will be less likely to have to waste your time explaining it to the judge. Just because you register your truck as an RV does not automatically exempt it from the regs. Go re-read my earlier post. "I'm an RV!" doesn't cut it..and does not make you exempt.

Just like the signs, the choice is yours.

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~

2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin
2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 

2014 smart Fortwo

 

 
 
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Drove it to an RV dealer and bought a 5er. And drove it home, 4800 miles. Through 8 states and 2 Canadian provinces. One only one that even blinked was an ag check point entering Oregon. They simply asked who I worked for, I told them I was a Telecom Engineer in Alaska. They said no who are you hauling for. I responded the truck and trailer are my personal property(trailer had dealer plates). She said okay, just wanted to make sure you were not a hot shot or RV delivery guy have a good trip. Drove past every other weight station open or closed along the entire route.

And there you have it. You "look" like an "RV delivery guy". And she wanted to make sure you weren't. Your "dealer plates" were probably a temporary "buyers" tag, showing you as the owner and/or you had a bill of sale, title application, etc.

 

You asked what else to include in your book?

I don't know what state you are in, but licensing varies from state to state. Some states require a special license to drive a truck our size. Texas requires a Class A drivers license but other states do not. Does your state allow you to drive an HDT rv on your regular license? A copy of that won't hurt. It will give the officer who is unfamiliar with your states statutes a place to start his hunt to see if you can really do something that his state doesn't allow their own residents to do.

Some states do not allow an HDT to be registered as a personal vehicle or motor home, with passenger vehicle license plates. Texas does. Texas has very specific rules on how to convert a "truck tractor" to a "motor home" or "private truck". A copy of your states regs on how to do that might help too.

I recommend a neat presentation. I was told once that a folder full of papers is just as good, but I disagree. Put yourself in his shoes. How much digging through a loose stack of papers (that you do not have to look at) do you want to do? And every year when you are in a rush, you just jam the new papers in. Everyday I see guys digging for their registration, insurance and inspection report only to hand me the ones form 4 years ago, then the ones from last year and then...Never mind. If they can't find it they can show it to the judge. I'm not gonna stand there all day while they hunt for it.

 

 

My binder uses those clear sleeves to hold full size sheets of paper. And I have a table of contents page. He will look at the table of contents page. And if he sees something there that peaks his interest, he will look at that too. I would say put the non traffic/vehicle pages to the rear. The dogs papers (never thought about that..thanks) and the birth certs. Those are gonna be specialty items that are handy to have but the traffic cop won't care. Same with the insurance "policy". He wants to see that "card".

Start with the normal things

  • Table of contents (if this takes two pages put them both face up in separate sleeves. You want them to read the table of contents and see that you have everything they want.) And list them like Page 3 (Front) Truck Insurance (rear) Car Insurance Page 4 (Front) Truck title (rear) Registration Receipt This will make them look at the back side of the page. Many things like registration receipts are printed on the back with junk.
  • Insurance Card for the truck and the smart (all of these things are back to back in the same sleeve)
  • Title and registration receipt for the truck
  • Title and registration receipt for the trailer
  • Title and registration receipt for the smart
  • The next three pages are different references to titling and converting a tractor to an RV (TX registration manual, TX title manual, and a copy of the converters form)
  • Texas law on exempt Class A drivers license
  • two pages listing the exempts for RV's found in the FMCSR's

Is it over kill? Maybe but they are all things he will want to know to help decide that you are not commercial, and that you do have the proper license for your vehicle. Does he need the pages from the FMCSR's? Probably not, but here they are anyway. It will save him from hunting for them since the RV exemptions are not something that he uses regularly. And when he asks for whatever he wants, I am going to hand him my license and the whole book. If he is a CMV guy, he will take the book. Street cops may not want it, so as you hand it to them, flip it open and tell them that the insurance cards and registration for all your vehicles are in the book. People tend to hand you the whole envelope with their insurance cards, policy, receipt, etc. All he wants is that card. He does not want to dig through your mess to find it. Show this guy it's neat and he will probably take it. But lets face it, the street cop stopped you for something other than being commercial. He stopped you for speeding, running that red light etc. He is less interested in what DL you have and how your truck is registered.

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~

2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin
2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 

2014 smart Fortwo

 

 
 
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I would like to mention a little different scenario, in which case I DO think the "Private RV Not for Hire" signs make sense. I live in IL, near I-80, and commute to IN Elkhart area often. There are a continuous stream of RV haulers moving new RVs out of that area...and along I-80. Some of them even use HDTs...that DO need commercial signs on them--which are typically small and inconspicuous cardboard taped to the door! Thus they look a LOT like my rig, at first glance. So traveling in that area a lot, it only makes sense to at least hope the LEO sitting at the weigh station watching can see that you are NOT an RV hauler, and don't have to stop. Etc.

If I didn't drive thru that area all the time, I probably wouldn't bother, either.

No camper at present.

Way too many farm machines to maintain.

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And there you have it. You "look" like an "RV delivery guy". And she wanted to make sure you weren't. Your "dealer plates" were probably a temporary "buyers" tag, showing you as the owner and/or you had a bill of sale, title application, etc.

 

You asked what else to include in your book?

I don't know what state you are in, but licensing varies from state to state. Some states require a special license to drive a truck our size. Texas requires a Class A drivers license but other states do not. Does your state allow you to drive an HDT rv on your regular license? A copy of that won't hurt. It will give the officer who is unfamiliar with your states statutes a place to start his hunt to see if you can really do something that his state doesn't allow their own residents to do.

Some states do not allow an HDT to be registered as a personal vehicle or motor home, with passenger vehicle license plates. Texas does. Texas has very specific rules on how to convert a "truck tractor" to a "motor home" or "private truck". A copy of your states regs on how to do that might help too.

I recommend a neat presentation. I was told once that a folder full of papers is just as good, but I disagree. Put yourself in his shoes. How much digging through a loose stack of papers (that you do not have to look at) do you want to do? And every year when you are in a rush, you just jam the new papers in. Everyday I see guys digging for their registration, insurance and inspection report only to hand me the ones form 4 years ago, then the ones from last year and then...Never mind. If they can't find it they can show it to the judge. I'm not gonna stand there all day while they hunt for it.

 

 

My binder uses those clear sleeves to hold full size sheets of paper. And I have a table of contents page. He will look at the table of contents page. And if he sees something there that peaks his interest, he will look at that too. I would say put the non traffic/vehicle pages to the rear. The dogs papers (never thought about that..thanks) and the birth certs. Those are gonna be specialty items that are handy to have but the traffic cop won't care. Same with the insurance "policy". He wants to see that "card".

Start with the normal things

  • Table of contents (if this takes two pages put them both face up in separate sleeves. You want them to read the table of contents and see that you have everything they want.) And list them like Page 3 (Front) Truck Insurance (rear) Car Insurance Page 4 (Front) Truck title (rear) Registration Receipt This will make them look at the back side of the page. Many things like registration receipts are printed on the back with junk.
  • Insurance Card for the truck and the smart (all of these things are back to back in the same sleeve)
  • Title and registration receipt for the truck
  • Title and registration receipt for the trailer
  • Title and registration receipt for the smart
  • The next three pages are different references to titling and converting a tractor to an RV (TX registration manual, TX title manual, and a copy of the converters form)
  • Texas law on exempt Class A drivers license
  • two pages listing the exempts for RV's found in the FMCSR's

Is it over kill? Maybe but they are all things he will want to know to help decide that you are not commercial, and that you do have the proper license for your vehicle. Does he need the pages from the FMCSR's? Probably not, but here they are anyway. It will save him from hunting for them since the RV exemptions are not something that he uses regularly. And when he asks for whatever he wants, I am going to hand him my license and the whole book. If he is a CMV guy, he will take the book. Street cops may not want it, so as you hand it to them, flip it open and tell them that the insurance cards and registration for all your vehicles are in the book. People tend to hand you the whole envelope with their insurance cards, policy, receipt, etc. All he wants is that card. He does not want to dig through your mess to find it. Show this guy it's neat and he will probably take it. But lets face it, the street cop stopped you for something other than being commercial. He stopped you for speeding, running that red light etc. He is less interested in what DL you have and how your truck is registered.

 

Our binder has everything in plastic sleeves and is laid out nicely with labeled color tabs. On every boarder crossing we hand over the binder and passports. Almost every time we have been complimented on how we have all of our info in order and organized.

 

Yes with the Oregon gal the trailer has out of state buyers tags on it. She said there was a few delivery guys who ran big truck, and often see hot shot guys trying to sneak through. With every station we past I was expecting to be pulled over, so I was prepared to answer questions. I spent a few years as a Deputy Sheriff in Clark County Washington. I understand and respect an officers position and not wanting to dig through a mountain of BS to find the one piece of info they are looking for.

 

We are licensed out of Alaska.

Alaska allowed Class D operation of RVs and any non passenger carrying vehicles under 26k. the hook there would be falling well within the RV criteria else we could be in bigger trouble. Printing this out would be a good idea. I used to have a Class A, but let it go due to newer regulations and hoops to keep the hazmat and health card. It was more of a hassle than it was worth.

Alaska follows the federal guidelines of picking 4 of the 7 or what ever it is. I had a pile of pics when I went to the DMV to show power, sleeping, cooking, sanitary and hvac systems. And the lady was not interested at all. She just said RV? okay. Printing out that check list would be a good idea.

The vehicle does have passenger plates. Registered to Myself and the DW. The same with the trailer.

Sounds like I have a good start, and will be adding those regulations to the binder.

2016 Road Warrior 420

2001 Volvo VNL 660

Alaska Based.

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DT, you sort of beat me to the punch on this one. While at work today I decided to come back here and add a disclaimer.

 

Disclaimer: Let me back up a bit.

I, that is me and my furkids, do not want lettering on the truck. Some people here swear that having them on their truck has brought peace and prosperity into their lives. I am so happy for them and encourage their happiness.

 

There is NO regulation requiring lettering of any sort on a non-commercial vehicle....BUT......you need to be prepared to explain what you are and why you do not have ID markings on your vehicle. And "I am an RV!" is not going to cut it, folks.

 

There is nothing that says "RV's" are exempt from the Federal Regulations. There is a section that says that RV's used strictly for personal usage are exempt. Signage or no signage, you may one day find yourself having to explain why you are exempt and simply being an RV, ain't it. I have said it before and I will say it again. How your vehicle is "registered" has nothing what-so-ever to do with whether you are a commercial vehicle. That is determined by your vehicle and if you are driving an HDT you ARE a commercial motor vehicle. The question at hand is whether you are using it in a commercial enterprise. That has very little to with profits and lots to do with usage. You can suck at business and still be a commercial entity...anyone not know of Enron? Studebaker?

 

The question is not what your truck is (that is the easy part), the question is what are you doing with it and no amount of signage can change that. Will signs keep you from getting stopped? Maybe, but not by me or anyone I know personally. If I think you might be commercial, I'm gonna stop you and check...signs or no signs.

 

Any vehicle, including an "RV" can be a commercial motor vehicle and be used commercially. The definition of a CMV is usually based on size (GVWR) but there are other things that can put a vehicle into the fed-regs. Let's say that DT owns the Dolleytrolley Horse Moving and Stable Demolition Company. One day his foreman, a guy named Cooter who everyone just calls "Crazy", phones the office and says "5er, we are 1 stick of dynamite short and I am too busy to come back to the office". I tell him to fear not, I will be enroute with his required material. I run out to my trusty Vespa, a thrilling little 150cc scooter, and dash away to save the day. I have Crazy's 1 stick of dynamite in the basket on the handlebars. My Vespa better have placards, be displaying the name "Dolleytrolley Demolitions" on the side along with a US DOT number. I need a hazmat endorsement on my motorcycle license, a copy of the shipping papers and we can go on and on about the many issues with my Vespa, the newly christened commercial motor vehicle.

We are ALL driving HDT's, vehicles that by definition ARE commercial motor vehicles. The only question is are we doing something with them that makes them exempt from the commercial regulations.

 

OU812 knows what I am talking about...and he is PREPARED to explain himself. He seems to know how he looks and seems to have the attitude to pull it off....... "I'm not and I'm willing to show you that I'm not". But like he said, he "expects" to be stopped. He doesn't seemed shocked or surprised but rather nonchalant about it. And he will win every time.

 

We ALL should be "prepared" to get stopped. In your mind, It shouldn't be a matter of "if" but "when". If it never happens to you, well congratulations. But when it happens it will be because he (or she) "thinks" you are. Yeah, yeah Innocent until proven guilty, right? Well "proven" doesn't happen roadside. It happens in front of the judge...days, weeks or even months later. It is so much easier to convince him that you are not, rather than waiting for your day in court so you can make them "prove it".

 

Ultimately, put signs on your truck if it makes you feel better. Or don't put them on at all or take them off if you want to go that route. Either way, be prepared like OU812. The odds are that it won't happen, but won't it suck to be "the guy" that it does happen to and not be ready?

 

 

I am curious what exactly makes you commercial? One example is my wife, she is a competitive horseshoe pitcher, we will have horseshoes onboard. If she were to go to big tournament she may be able to win $100. Does that make us commercial then?

She also does online fitness coaching, again similar to racing in the fact that she is not doing enough of it to make a profit, but does market herself online as a coach. Does that make it commercial?

At this point the RV and HDT are vacation units, but the consideration is there for me to move into a position that would allow me to work online, in which case I would work from the 5er. Does this make me commercial?

 

I guess my point is, as you said, What is your truck is the easy part, the part that becomes gray or at the very least confusing to the guys who don't read law books daily, is where is that line at? I have a CDL, and my wife wants to get one, for the same reason we are planning to get concealed carry, not because law says she has to, but because she wants the knowledge gained by doing it. So the licence part doesn't bother or scare us, but I might be compelled to make due with a smaller rig if we ended up having to get into what seems like a scary amount of documentation fees if we were ever truly deemed commercial.

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Gain the knowledge, but slip the cdl. Nothing says you have to get the license after the school. I intentionally gave up my cdl. The farther away from that "c" word in front of "dl" the better...if your state will let you.

 

You answered your own question while asking the question: "At this point the RV and HDT are vacation units".

You say later you might work out of the "house". Are you working where you happen to be living? Using the HDT to haul your "house" to new vacation sights? Or are you hauling your "office" to the location where you are required for work?

A carpenter carries his tool belt in his vehicle and he drives to work. What is the purpose of the vehicle? Do you require an HDT to carry your tool belt or is the HDT simply a mode of transportation to get to work after you used it to move your RV? A plumber hauls his tools in his vehicle and drives to the job site. His tools require a trailer carrying a ditch witch, a backhoe and several hundred pounds of pipe, fittings and tools. Now what is the purpose of the vehicle? Oh my god, you have horseshoes? How many? Are you hauling thousands and thousands of pounds of horseshoes? Are you transporting horseshoes or are you hauling your travel trailer? Does your wife advertise herself as a traveling fitness trainer with a mobile workout studio?

 

This isn't hard people. What are you doing and what are you hauling? I work in Houston. I live in Houston and I live in my trailer. I went to a school in Nebraska and took my "house" with me. Gee, I took my uniforms, gunbelt, radio and taser too. I could have easily let the county fly me there and put me in a hotel, but I took the house and the dogs. I also went on vacation after the school. What was the intended purpose of the HDT and trailer? It is my house! The HDT hauls me and MY PERSONAL property...some of which are tools of my work, but I do not use the HDT for "work".

Glenn West travels from welding job to welding job. Does he haul his welding helmet, gloves, tool box, etc? Of course he does. Is that the purpose of his HDT and Teton? No. He is hauling his house from location to location and working where he stops but he does not use the HDT and teton for work. Just because you happen to have a job and bring some work home does not make your home into an office does it? Nor does it make your HDT commercial. But if you haul your office around the country, seeing customers all day at every stop and just happen to sleep in the office, that might be a different story.

There are people that use commercial vehicles to haul Crown Royal and Dr. Pepper. I happen to be hauling both of those items everytime I move. Do I need to continue to explain the difference?

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~

2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin
2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 

2014 smart Fortwo

 

 
 
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Big5er WELL sed. WE load up with barley pop.....never know when it's time to call it a day. When law enforcement stops a vehicle they know the answers to most of the questions you are going to try and answer. It's in the computer on the screes in there vehicle. Insurance card is one that they don't know, so they ask. One thing I read HDT/truck owners doing that sends up a big RED flag.... Vehicle registration in one state....driver livens another.... Insurance card address of owner in another.....Motorcycle/smart car in another, all under the same name of ownership with 2/3 different state address,....And then compound it with a LLC, in another For the most part, it looks like they are on the run or don't like paying taxes. YES I have had several learning experiences and they have been very good education for me. Follow the laws as best you can. Sounds like a lot of campfire story's that are un told...Merry Christmas OU812

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Like I've said, by definition we ARE commercial motor vehicles. That much is obvious to anyone looking and we may or may not be exempt from the regs. I have had truck drivers ask me if all I do is haul rv's for a living and I have to explain that all I haul is MY rv.

 

Think of it, not so much as educating, as explaining. You are missing a very fine point, just because you have a "proof-of-private-HDT-RV-binder" doesn't mean you qualify for the exemption. Simply because you are a "private-HDT-RV" and have a book that says so doesn't mean that you are not using your "private HDT RV" for a commercial usage. It's not that cut and dry. The pictures I posted above prove that. Even though he has a "private HDT RV" what he was doing is still commercial. His book looks just like yours....the RV is his and IS an RV, trailer is his also...but he is pulling his race car to the track with his private HDT RV, where he races for money. So while he has the "proof-of-private-HDT-RV-binder" that is 100 percent accurate, he is still using his private HDT RV in a commercial operation and no longer qualifies for the exemption. That is the problem with our trucks. We are using commercial motor vehicles for a non conventional use. That is all fine and dandy...and totally legal, IF we are really engaged in that non commercial use. But a lot of people are claiming an exemption they are not entitled to. If everyone was honest, we would have it made. But until the dis-honest crowd changes their ways, we can expect to have to prove that we qualify for the exemption. You can do it in court or on the side of the road. That choice is yours. If you want to call it "educating" the officer, then you may have issues someday. If you look at it as explaining that you are an honest person, engaged in an activity that is exempted from the regulations that 99.9999% of the other trucks on the road do not get then you will be one step ahead of the dishonest crowd. And you will be less likely to have to waste your time explaining it to the judge. Just because you register your truck as an RV does not automatically exempt it from the regs. Go re-read my earlier post. "I'm an RV!" doesn't cut it..and does not make you exempt.

Just like the signs, the choice is yours.

Indeed Phil you do bring up some fine points into the HDT RV exemptions and how to walk the talk.

 

Obviously having the paper work in order can go a long way toward helping explain our situation to a LEO AND help answer questions that may come up.

 

In your next post you mentioned that often some other item of interest such as equipment or traffic infraction may instigate a stop and that is often the case.

 

Some folks here seem to get a hoot out of some of my less stellar employment"adventures" of my checkered past life so here is a "infraction story".

 

A few decade in the past I was required to pass a FAA class one flight physical every six months due to many requirements of my employment....Not any doctor is authorized to perform FAA tests the Doc must be approved by the FAA. The local Doc that gave me my FAA physicals was a crusty grouch but we got along fairly well and I would reposition his airplane sometimes in trade for physicals. The Docs wife was a tall blond Scandinavian Nurse with a DEEP commanding voice and she ran the clinic with a IRON FIST....she scares me so for this episode let's just call her Ingred ...

 

Now, I am far from being the best pilot in the world but without any doubt Doc WAS the worst pilot ever to touch a airctaft and he wrecked plenty of airplanes to prove the point.

 

It was mid December and I had been off shore for a while and when I get back to town I was due for another FAA physical so I go down to the clinic and Ingred tells me to setup naked ( she made Everyone strip because she would say..."Veell of course you must bee naked, how else weell thee Doctorr be able examine YOU...you would not take your auto to mechanic and not allow him to open the hood...)

 

Anyhow I pass the physical and the Doc mentioned that he is flying his Viking airplane down to his beach place in Baja for a Christmas vacation.

 

The next evening I come home and my answering machine is blinking and when I play the message it was that bone chilling voice of.....Ingred and she said "You Veell ASSIST the DOCTORRR in the operation of the Viking on his Vacation to Baja and you will have the aircraft ready depart at such and such time. Do not delay...PERIOD!!!"....Gulp...

 

So.....I assist the Doctor to herd the Viking to Cross the border at Imperial CA. And I file a Mex flight plan and immigration papers and Mex insurance and a aircraft manifest and, and so on.....Doc climbs into the Left seat and proceeds to start molesting the aircraft as we struggle off the runway and start wondering south... sorta....we fly half the length of Baja and we will land at Lerreto .....when we are 20 miles North of the airport I tell Doc that he needs to report to the tower and obtain landing instructions....Doc calls the Tower and things start to not go well ....the tower controller responds that the transmission was garbled and unreadable.....Doc takes off his headset and ask to borrow my headset.....I paused and did not like the idea but insisted that he wanted to do tje landing so....I have him my headset....bad idea....

 

So at ten miles out I remind Doc to report our position and he does....at five miles out I remind Doc to report to the tower and he does but I can not hear much on the cabin speaker because of the aircraft noise.....as we enter the downwind leg I listen close to the speaker for the tower to clear us to land...Doc is pumping the control wheel and rocking the wings and messing with the throttle then he starts a wide wondering base leg and a overshooting dog leg to a too high final and I crank in some flaps and drop the landing gear that he forgot....Doc continued to molest the aircraft I yelled to Doc....has the tower cleatrd you to land and he nodded....next he arrived about ten feet over the runeay where he chops the throttle to idle and the aircraft sinks to a brisk clunk on the runway and then ...LOUD and clear the tower controller voice booms out of the speaker..."Vikinggg ono, ono, dosee, golfoo YOU NOT CLEARED TO LAND....REPORRT TO TOWERRR for.....PENTALTEEE"

 

I glared at DOC and ask...."DID the Tower clear you yo land?" ...Doc grinned and said " heck I am not sure I was too busy landing"

 

We taxi to the fuel pumps and I tell Doc I'll fuel the airctaft while he go gets his "PENTALTEEE" at the tower....Doc days well maybe I fuel and you go to the tower because I don't have my pilots license with Mr and he reached into his jacket and pulled his wallet out and handed it to me....I was ticked....I put his wallet in my jacket and grabbed all the paperwork and got out of the Viking and was met by four young federalizes with machine guns....I smiled they smiled...I walked toward the tower and as I was passing the tiny terminal I turned and walked into the men's banos (rest room) two of the federalizes entered with me and the other two trot around and cover the back window...

 

I enter a stall and close the door and dit down on the lid and open Docs wallet....he had a nice selection of cash....very nice....sooo what would be a nice PENTALTEEE for not being cleared to land..

humm soooo....I just placed FIFTY dollar bills between each page of all of the aircraft paperwork and fanned them such as a hand of poker cards.....I placed all of the paperwork face down on my knee board and left the stall and walked over to the Tower.... I entered the Tower office and the clerk was busy looking a the paperwork from two Vacationing Republic Airline Pilots and the clerk looked over at me and I said loudly....ono, ono. Dosee Golfoo and the I turned my paperwork over.....the clerk paused for a memento and then slid all of the Republic Pilots paperwork off the end of the counter onto the floor and while the bend over to pick up the mess the clerk slides all of my paperwork over and stamps and signs all of the forms and....and.... senior you have a woonerfulll flight and enjoy Mexico....

 

Never did see those Fifties leave the paperwork....

 

I walked back over to the Viking and Doc looked over and ask what happened?

 

I smiled and said " oh Senior...I got cleared to land and just a pieco PENTALTEEE".....

 

And that my children is just another way to present some of the paperwork....

 

Fly on...(take care of the ... PENTALTEEE)

97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S

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A doctor in a Belanca story is even better than a doctor in a Bonanza story. My best doctor story involved a doc doing a CFI ride that blew the oral! He told off the FAA guy and they red tagged his airplane.

 

I am kinda confused about the commercial vehicle thing, while I agree that most of these started out as commercial vehicles they are personal vehicles as far as the states register them? As most know by now California has insisted that any truck be registered as a commercial vehicle since the 1950's. Even my lowly ElCamino had a commercial plate. That said, the folks that have California Housecar registration on their HDT's should not be considered commercial anymore than a Lincoln Town Car should be considered livery just because many are?

 

My truck is registered in Kansas at my shop along with my trailer, I hold a California drivers license because I have a house and live in California. I spend a good deal of time in Kansas, and my trailer is my home in Kansas. How would a LEO like Phil interpret my situation? I do have a USDOT number for my business but, my truck and trailer are registered to me personally, insured by a personal policy and have no affiliation with my business except they share the same registered address and, allow me to live at my shop when I am there. I don't go to client locations with my camper, do not conduct business out of it or, carry any business related material.

 

I would like to hear the though process of an LEO who encountered me on the road, say I 40 in Tx?

 

Steve

2005 Peterbilt 387-112 Baby Cat 9 speed U-shift

1996/2016 remod Teton Royal Atlanta

1996 Kentucky 48 single drop stacker garage project

 catdiesellogo.jpg.e96e571c41096ef39b447f78b9c2027c.jpg Pulls like a train, sounds like a plane....faster than a Cheetah sniffin cocaine.   

 

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A doctor in a Belanca story is even better than a doctor in a Bonanza story. My best doctor story involved a doc doing a CFI ride that blew the oral! He told off the FAA guy and they red tagged his airplane.

 

I am kinda confused about the commercial vehicle thing, while I agree that most of these started out as commercial vehicles they are personal vehicles as far as the states register them? As most know by now California has insisted that any truck be registered as a commercial vehicle since the 1950's. Even my lowly ElCamino had a commercial plate. That said, the folks that have California Housecar registration on their HDT's should not be considered commercial anymore than a Lincoln Town Car should be considered livery just because many are?

 

My truck is registered in Kansas at my shop along with my trailer, I hold a California drivers license because I have a house and live in California. I spend a good deal of time in Kansas, and my trailer is my home in Kansas. How would a LEO like Phil interpret my situation? I do have a USDOT number for my business but, my truck and trailer are registered to me personally, insured by a personal policy and have no affiliation with my business except they share the same registered address and, allow me to live at my shop when I am there. I don't go to client locations with my camper, do not conduct business out of it or, carry any business related material.

 

I would like to hear the though process of an LEO who encountered me on the road, say I 40 in Tx?

 

Steve

Ya know Steve if us bird-geeks keep giving Phil examples of how far past the edge we operate he will likely start mixing Prestone with his Dr Pepper and his puppy might bite him....

 

Remember Phil's day-job involves red and blue lights, handcuffs, Tazer , and shooting iron and a ticket book on a clipboard.....AND....he works for the SAME D O T outfit that "owns" the F A A.... hmmmmm....grim.....

 

Now the F A A Geeks have a huge advantage over Phil's group....for the most part the fly boys are so lame that the states have very little jurisdiction over them so the F A A can get out the famous R E D - T A G and you and your bird are out of service unless you ignore them and then you get a escort by some folks with F-16'$ or Blackhawks with shooting irons bolted on them....Gulp...Seems to make the CMV-folks look like a pretty loving bunch....

 

Now Steve really think this commercial versus RV thingy over for a minute and transfer it over into the bird-brained world of the F A A..... just like Phil's example of the dynamite-dolly-vespa you could take the same stick of dynamite and toss it in the front seat of your 1938 j-3 Cub (recall the CAA / FAA placard "Solo Rear Seat ONLY") and THEN you at that point are legally in the same swamp of COMMERCE-AL FAA rules as the FedEx DC-10'$.....it ain't the bird , it IS what you do with the bird.

 

So....Maybe Phil ota wonder over and borrow some of those FAA red tags....because as you recall the FAA has its own lawyers AND JUDGES AND Court Rooms AND the Perp-bad-boy-pilot'$ lawyer has to sit out in the hall while the FAA Fry's the pilot......none of that local court thing with a bunch of shister-lawyer'$ prancing around....and the judge deciding IF you are a RV with beer...or....a beer truck......

 

No Steve.... remember the Moto of the FAA....." W E - A R E - U H A P P Y.....U N T I L - Y O U R - U N H A P P Y ?! !"

 

So Steve remember.....the truck thingy is a love-fest compared to the fly-thingy...

 

Drive on.....(haul just enough Dr Pepper to stay non-commercial....)

97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S

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Mike,

 

You hit the head on the nail or something like that!

 

My point was; in aviation you Can operate a 757 as a part 91 airplane and nobody questions the validity. A J-3 in 121 service may be a stretch, 135 no problem. The USAGE determines if it is commercial not the size of the airplane.

 

The FAA is of course a division of the DOT as is the FMCSA. Why can't the USDOT recognize that not every single class 6-8 truck is in commercial service. Instead of exemptions the trucks not in commercial service should be classified as private vehicles.

 

The USDOT assigns motor vehicle regulatory and enforcement actions to the states. There is a hole, a black hole when it comes to big trucks not involved in commercial service. Many states have arbitrary and capricious rules. To say that a Peterbilt can never be anything but a commercial truck is like saying a Boeing can never be anything but an airliner. While it is true both segments are tiny fractions of the whole system, there should be some consistent policy for large private vehicles nation wide.

 

I am aware of the fact that people cheat and, that has been perhaps the primary reason why we are looked at with such scrutiny. It sure would be nice if we didn't have to jump through hoops to explain our predicament.

 

Steve.

2005 Peterbilt 387-112 Baby Cat 9 speed U-shift

1996/2016 remod Teton Royal Atlanta

1996 Kentucky 48 single drop stacker garage project

 catdiesellogo.jpg.e96e571c41096ef39b447f78b9c2027c.jpg Pulls like a train, sounds like a plane....faster than a Cheetah sniffin cocaine.   

 

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Gain the knowledge, but slip the cdl. Nothing says you have to get the license after the school. I intentionally gave up my cdl. The farther away from that "c" word in front of "dl" the better...if your state will let you.

 

You answered your own question while asking the question: "At this point the RV and HDT are vacation units".

You say later you might work out of the "house". Are you working where you happen to be living? Using the HDT to haul your "house" to new vacation sights? Or are you hauling your "office" to the location where you are required for work?

A carpenter carries his tool belt in his vehicle and he drives to work. What is the purpose of the vehicle? Do you require an HDT to carry your tool belt or is the HDT simply a mode of transportation to get to work after you used it to move your RV? A plumber hauls his tools in his vehicle and drives to the job site. His tools require a trailer carrying a ditch witch, a backhoe and several hundred pounds of pipe, fittings and tools. Now what is the purpose of the vehicle? Oh my god, you have horseshoes? How many? Are you hauling thousands and thousands of pounds of horseshoes? Are you transporting horseshoes or are you hauling your travel trailer? Does your wife advertise herself as a traveling fitness trainer with a mobile workout studio?

 

This isn't hard people. What are you doing and what are you hauling? I work in Houston. I live in Houston and I live in my trailer. I went to a school in Nebraska and took my "house" with me. Gee, I took my uniforms, gunbelt, radio and taser too. I could have easily let the county fly me there and put me in a hotel, but I took the house and the dogs. I also went on vacation after the school. What was the intended purpose of the HDT and trailer? It is my house! The HDT hauls me and MY PERSONAL property...some of which are tools of my work, but I do not use the HDT for "work".

Glenn West travels from welding job to welding job. Does he haul his welding helmet, gloves, tool box, etc? Of course he does. Is that the purpose of his HDT and Teton? No. He is hauling his house from location to location and working where he stops but he does not use the HDT and teton for work. Just because you happen to have a job and bring some work home does not make your home into an office does it? Nor does it make your HDT commercial. But if you haul your office around the country, seeing customers all day at every stop and just happen to sleep in the office, that might be a different story.

There are people that use commercial vehicles to haul Crown Royal and Dr. Pepper. I happen to be hauling both of those items everytime I move. Do I need to continue to explain the difference?

 

Thank you for taking the time to clarify, I am still a noob and hoping to learn as much as possible before the need arises!

 

I like all of the suggestions for the binder and need to be digging those items up here.

 

Sounds like as long as my primary purpose is home or recreation, and the tools the ride around with me that happen to be for business purpose are not a substantial size/weight that makes an office doubt the intended purpose of the rig then I should be in the clear.

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A doctor in a Belanca story is even better than a doctor in a Bonanza story. My best doctor story involved a doc doing a CFI ride that blew the oral! He told off the FAA guy and they red tagged his airplane.

 

I am kinda confused about the commercial vehicle thing, while I agree that most of these started out as commercial vehicles they are personal vehicles as far as the states register them? As most know by now California has insisted that any truck be registered as a commercial vehicle since the 1950's. Even my lowly ElCamino had a commercial plate. That said, the folks that have California Housecar registration on their HDT's should not be considered commercial anymore than a Lincoln Town Car should be considered livery just because many are?

 

My truck is registered in Kansas at my shop along with my trailer, I hold a California drivers license because I have a house and live in California. I spend a good deal of time in Kansas, and my trailer is my home in Kansas. How would a LEO like Phil interpret my situation? I do have a USDOT number for my business but, my truck and trailer are registered to me personally, insured by a personal policy and have no affiliation with my business except they share the same registered address and, allow me to live at my shop when I am there. I don't go to client locations with my camper, do not conduct business out of it or, carry any business related material.

 

I would like to hear the though process of an LEO who encountered me on the road, say I 40 in Tx?

 

Steve

 

Steve, where is your shop? What kind of shop? I am in Salina area, at least until the end of next month when the house sells!

 

Are you licenced personal truck or RV? Not that it has any bearing on your question, I am just curious.

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So I was hauling back from storage warehouse my own personal goods when an officer pulled me over and made himself at home in the passenger seat of my truck ... He looks at me and the first thing that came out of his mouth was "going to suck to be you today". I was on the side of the road for over 1 hour .... at the end, he was kind enough to explain that in California, if it smells, looks, and walks like a commercial rig, it is a commercial rig ! I was given a list of things to do and the first was to remove the "Not for hire" tag, that was what got his attention first. Well 3 months later, still fighting california DMV on getting my Motor Carrier Permit, have the DOT and CA numbers (cost nothing for those). To drive my own truck I have to my own drug testing program I must follow and show regular drug testing .... In all, its now costing me around an additional 1500.00 per year to legally move the truck with all the numbers on it. Have to have a Class A / CDL license and more ..... Cannot tell you what fun I had with the insurance company with all this stuff .... To boot, I cannot attach any of my trailers to the truck now because I do not poses a valid MCP number yet, so I have to hire a trucking company to move my stuff from farm to farm to get my work done while I ride around bob-tail !! Gotta love California and its laws !!

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So I was hauling back from storage warehouse my own personal goods when an officer pulled me over and made himself at home in the passenger seat of my truck ... He looks at me and the first thing that came out of his mouth was "going to suck to be you today". I was on the side of the road for over 1 hour .... at the end, he was kind enough to explain that in California, if it smells, looks, and walks like a commercial rig, it is a commercial rig ! I was given a list of things to do and the first was to remove the "Not for hire" tag, that was what got his attention first. Well 3 months later, still fighting california DMV on getting my Motor Carrier Permit, have the DOT and CA numbers (cost nothing for those). To drive my own truck I have to my own drug testing program I must follow and show regular drug testing .... In all, its now costing me around an additional 1500.00 per year to legally move the truck with all the numbers on it. Have to have a Class A / CDL license and more ..... Cannot tell you what fun I had with the insurance company with all this stuff .... To boot, I cannot attach any of my trailers to the truck now because I do not poses a valid MCP number yet, so I have to hire a trucking company to move my stuff from farm to farm to get my work done while I ride around bob-tail !! Gotta love California and its laws !!

Not sure how all that evolved. I have a friend who bought a Freightliner to convert. Once he completed the singling and I then fabricated frames for his water/waste tanks and he installed the microwave and other things that allowed for him to register his truck as an RV, he called a private party working under a license to inspect vehicles like his as to their qualifying as RVs, and once he had that person's approval, went to the DMV and got his truck registered as an RV for a registration fee of $150, all in CALIFORNIA. He does have a Class A but because of his 20+ years of driving a concrete mixer. Although CALI has a non-commercial Class A license available too. Dont know much about that.

Amazing how LEOs will interpret things differently.

Marcel

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So I was hauling back from storage warehouse my own personal goods when an officer pulled me over and made himself at home in the passenger seat of my truck ... He looks at me and the first thing that came out of his mouth was "going to suck to be you today". I was on the side of the road for over 1 hour .... at the end, he was kind enough to explain that in California, if it smells, looks, and walks like a commercial rig, it is a commercial rig ! I was given a list of things to do and the first was to remove the "Not for hire" tag, that was what got his attention first. Well 3 months later, still fighting california DMV on getting my Motor Carrier Permit, have the DOT and CA numbers (cost nothing for those). To drive my own truck I have to my own drug testing program I must follow and show regular drug testing .... In all, its now costing me around an additional 1500.00 per year to legally move the truck with all the numbers on it. Have to have a Class A / CDL license and more ..... Cannot tell you what fun I had with the insurance company with all this stuff .... To boot, I cannot attach any of my trailers to the truck now because I do not poses a valid MCP number yet, so I have to hire a trucking company to move my stuff from farm to farm to get my work done while I ride around bob-tail !! Gotta love California and its laws !!

So....Pug, do you think that the "Not For Hire" signage was your first step in becoming a ....Komeefornia-Truck-Kriminal...? ? ??

 

Drive on.....(Gota make Komeefornia great again....oh ya)

97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S

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Not sure how all that evolved. I have a friend who bought a Freightliner to convert. Once he completed the singling and I then fabricated frames for his water/waste tanks and he installed the microwave and other things that allowed for him to register his truck as an RV, he called a private party working under a license to inspect vehicles like his as to their qualifying as RVs, and once he had that person's approval, went to the DMV and got his truck registered as an RV for a registration fee of $150, all in CALIFORNIA. He does have a Class A but because of his 20+ years of driving a concrete mixer. Although CALI has a non-commercial Class A license available too. Dont know much about that.

Amazing how LEOs will interpret things differently.

 

The motorhome titling of a class 8 likely is a thing of the past unless it comes from a licensed builder. Did tons of research on the matter before settling for one that was already converted and currently titled in CA. To my knowledge, nobody has successfully re-titled or brought one titled out of state into CA.

 

CA's "Non-commercial Class A" driver's license doesn't allow you to operate anything other than what the standard "Class C" does. It only allows a person to tow house trailers over 10,000 lbs. or house trailer 5th wheels over 15,000lbs.

1999 Peterbilt 385 C12 430/1650 13spd

2006 Dodge 3500 DRW 4x4

2010 Hitchhiker Champagne 36 LKRSB

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