Five Wood Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 Ten thousand soldiers in California must repay bonuses that they were paid a decade ago. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-national-guard-bonus-20161020-snap-story.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/report-california-soldiers-must-repay-enlistment-bonuses-180205084.html This is wrong on a multitude of levels. It seems so wrong to me that I just feel there must be more to the story than simply an error on the part of California. But after reading several stories on it, it seems just as simple as it appears. As long as there was no fraud involved, these men and women entered into a contract with the government and they upheld their part of the contract. I don't even see how it can be legal for the government to come back a decade later and say the state of California offered too much in bonuses. That's an issue between the federal government and California, not the soldiers who entered into a contract with California in good faith. Other articles on this highlight how some of these people were wounded and now told they must repay the government. One woman summed it up pretty well when she said. . . they will get their money back, but how do I get those years back. Jim Jim SKP: 99693 If you think you can, or you think you can't. . . you are probably right (Henry Ford) 2021 Dodge 4WD Dually 1998 Carriage LS-341 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewilso Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 Kinda like what the illegal aliens did to the natives. Let's do a treaty, then a while later, naw we didn't really mean that, Dave W. KE5GOH Stuck in the 70's --- In E. Texas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_ Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 Or to us retirees! Let's offer them free medical and dental for life if they go career than take it back and ask them to pay a fair share? A fair share of nothing in payments is nothing. People need to re-examine a lot of the premises they have come to believe only recently. Many are in search of a scapegoat and those with evil intent are willing to give it to them, complete with the bogeyman stories. I, for one, as a retiree with 27 years service, am nobody's scapegoat. Us sheepdogs defended the sheep and kept them safe. We got our benefits the old fashioned way, we earned them. Just as each non retiree vet earned the VA and other benefits they get today. Despite different branches, and active or reserve status, whether service was 18 months honorable or 30 years, we remain a band of brothers (and sisters.) The accountants that screwed up should be getting investigated too. RV/Derekhttp://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.Retired AF 1971-1998 When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Schneider Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 I'm not a vet but I live in California and this is just so, so wrong. Forget about changing the terms of an employment contract a decade after the fact - demanding repayment from the men and women who accepted that contract in good faith and honorably fulfilled their commitment is just despicable and beyond outrageous. If there are any guilty parties, it's the entities who made the offers in the first place. If it's any consolation, this story was front page on the Los Angeles Times today, so there's a good chance other media will pick up on it, too. Maybe we'll get a response from one or the other of our Presidential candidates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Wood Posted October 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 If it's any consolation, this story was front page on the Los Angeles Times today, so there's a good chance other media will pick up on it, too. Maybe we'll get a response from one or the other of our Presidential candidates Lou Thanks for bringing up the LA Times story. I see that it gives quite a bit more detail on the story, so I added the link in my original post. As a veteran, this story just makes me sad. Jim Jim SKP: 99693 If you think you can, or you think you can't. . . you are probably right (Henry Ford) 2021 Dodge 4WD Dually 1998 Carriage LS-341 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp51443 Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 So not only do the future promises they make to folks to get them to join or stay mean nothing, now it looks like they can go back and take back things you were given for your service in the past. No way I can recommend a career in the military these days, maybe one tour to learn a trade if you are strapped for cash. No more join and get educational benefits or stay for 20 and get a small retirement check and health care, not enough faith that won't be gone. First rule of computer consulting: Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day. Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 No way I can recommend a career in the military these days, maybe one tour to learn a trade if you are strapped for cash. No more join and get educational benefits or stay for 20 and get a small retirement check and health care, not enough faith that won't be gone. Agree 100%. I stopped recommending the military as a career several years ago. If the prospect/recruit is being steered to a career in something I do not see as a civilian career path (think tank driver or infantry), I tell the person in very blunt terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirakawa Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 This sounds like something the State of California needs to step up and take responsibility for. They already sent the responsible person to prison, now it's time to pay the money. Everybody wanna hear the truth, but everybody tell a lie. Everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody want to die. Albert King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 I spoke with my son, who works for ab Army command center and is a 24 year retiree about the stories, just to see what he knew or has heard from inside. He says that it has long been known that some states abuse the funding of the Army to Guard units and a few states have long histories of abuses. His sources indicate that some of the recipients knew, or should have known that they really didn't qualify for the bonus received, but that the time lapse involved makes it very questionable to ask for repayment. But he also believes that there are states that should be called to account for abuses of the federal funding, and that it is long overdue. He said that there is some debate around the office where he works about just who is demanding the repayment. Like so much that comes from the news media, there is far more to this story than we are being told and it isn't quite as clear an issue. Ken says that placing blame is one of the key talents of those O-6 and above. Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray,IN Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 This was on CBS national news tonight. The person in charge of the bonus program, Army MSG Toni Jaffe, got 30 months in prison. At least 3 senators are calling for the DOD to forgive the recoupment proposal. BTW, this blew up 8 months ago, and came to public attention when a soldier filed suit against the government. The back-story: "The California National Guard told the state's members of Congress two years ago that the Pentagon was trying to claw back re-enlistment bonuses from thousands of soldiers, and even offered a proposal to mitigate the problem, but Congress took no action, according to a senior National Guard official." http://www.arcamax.com/currentnews/newsheadlines/s-1887119 2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronbo Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Congress only wants to act when the story becomes public and it will benefit them. The states need to absorb the cost and not charge the soldiers. Ron C. 2013 Dynamax Trilogy 3850 D3 2000 Kenworth T2000 Optimus Prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjim Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 "BUT CONGRESS TOOK NO ACTION" I bet they will blame someone else. What no takers? That's a sure bet for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieere Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Or to us retirees! Let's offer them free medical and dental for life if they go career than take it back and ask them to pay a fair share? A fair share of nothing in payments is nothing. People need to re-examine a lot of the premises they have come to believe only recently. Many are in search of a scapegoat and those with evil intent are willing to give it to them, complete with the bogeyman stories. I, for one, as a retiree with 27 years service, am nobody's scapegoat. Us sheepdogs defended the sheep and kept them safe. We got our benefits the old fashioned way, we earned them. Just as each non retiree vet earned the VA and other benefits they get today. Despite different branches, and active or reserve status, whether service was 18 months honorable or 30, we remain a band of brothers (and sisters.) The accountants that screwed up should be getting investigated too. In 1985 I was told by the Phoenix AZ. VA that I didn't qualify for medical benefits, but another Veteran I friended informed me in 2010 that I did and signed up in Iowa. In 2012 I had a heart attack and now use the VA in Murfreesboro TN for most of my care!! I enlisted in the Army in 1971 and left in 1974. Can't understand how they can take back what was given a decade or more old!!! Living Life One Day At A Time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJW Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 I am kind of on the fence on this one. One side of me says a bunch of these folks are about to get screwed. The other side of me says a certain percentage of those folks knew they were not entitled to that reup bonus and took it anyway thinking the whole thing would get lost in the bureaucracy of DOD. They perpetrated a crime against me, you and the American tax payers and should be brought to justice. Would we say oh well if we found a doctor had perpetrated a crime by over billing Medicad or the VA when he knew about it because it was 10 years ago. No we would want our Government to extract a pound of flesh and return to the American tax payers what was stolen from them. Do you want to overlook HRC's use of a private server because it was 8 years ago? Some good folks are going to get hurt here but some crooks are going to get caught as well. Dennis USA Master Sergeant Ret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_ Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Hey! Where'd the edit button go? I posted this earlier: Whether they serve 10 months or 30 and needed to change that to 18 months or 30 years. Thank you RV/Derekhttp://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.Retired AF 1971-1998 When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp51443 Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Aside form everything else isn't the Statute of Limitations is long up on this mess? How long is a person expected to keep the check un-cashed to be sure it won't be taken back? First rule of computer consulting: Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day. Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp51443 Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Do you want to overlook HRC's use of a private server because it was 8 years ago? Some good folks are going to get hurt here but some crooks are going to get caught as well. Dennis Not getting into politics or the e-mail mess (which is a bad idea here) only posting the dates she was in office: https://infogalactic.com/info/Hillary_Rodham_Clinton%27s_tenure_as_Secretary_of_State On January 21, 2009, Clinton was confirmed in the full Senate by a vote of 94–2. Clinton's final day as secretary was February 1, 2013 First rule of computer consulting: Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day. Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronbo Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 The paperwork is so confusing it is hard to fogure out if you are entitled to a bonus or not. The guards were hurting for retention so they started giving out bonuses. If I was told by CBPO that I was entitled to a bonus, who am I supposed to go to for verification? They are the experts. Ron C. 2013 Dynamax Trilogy 3850 D3 2000 Kenworth T2000 Optimus Prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp51443 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 I had no way to know if I qualified for a bonus when I reenlisted, pure trust in the chain of command. I told the unit reenlistment NCO to give me a list of bonus skills that I could get that week, that had a clear progression to E-8. I picked one off that list from a few lines in a manual describing each job and the location of the school. I became a Radio Traffic Analyst because the school was in warm San Angelo, TX versus my second option of Radar Intercept Technician with the school in snowy Ft. Devens, MA. The reenlistment NCO filled out the paperwork and sent it up the chain for approval, it came back down approved and I reenlisted. If the whole operation had been a fraud I would have had no way to know, my entire involvement in the process was picking a job, a couple signatures and an oath. What really sucks is that a lot of the folks getting cheated out of their years old bonuses today got shot at as a result of taking them, others were apart from their families or endured other hardships. All taken as a result of the bonus offer, maybe some would have stayed without the bonus but at this late date there is no way to know. First rule of computer consulting: Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day. Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp51443 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Some good news: http://www.breitbart.com/california/2016/10/25/california-politicians-demand-national-guard-forgive-enlistment-bonuses/ Enough of a stink was raised that finally (this started in 2013 or earlier) we are seeing some attempt at fairness. But following the Breitbart headline on October 23rd that went viral and generated over 600 comments, Representative John Garamendi [D-Walnut Grove] summed up Congressional bipartisan anger: “I guess it’s always the private that gets beat up.” Backed by both California’s U.S. Senators and every Congressional member, Garamendi announced plans to submit an amendment to the 2017 Defense Department budget that will prohibit the Pentagon from spending any money to reclaim what is believed to be more than $100 million of improper payments doled out between 2005 and 2010 by corrupt military recruiters to veterans across the nation. California lawmakers also intend to submit legislation that would prevent the Army from ever repeating such a “claw-back” against future unsuspecting soldiers. In most cases, soldiers did not know they were not entitled to the benefits. The Army now is demanding that they repay retention and re-enlistment bonuses that tended to range from $15,000 to $20,000 per soldier, a recovery program that The Bee described in 2013. In the past four years, the Army has collected $22 million from soldiers who should not have received retention or re-enlistment bonuses. In many cases, those recovery efforts distressed veterans trying to move on with their lives after wartime deployments. “We have been vilified, like we have done something wrong and must be punished,” former Staff Sgt. Troy Torres of Galt told The Bee in 2013 when the National Guard demanded that he repay a $20,000 grant for education expenses. This abuse may be winding down but the people behind it and their view of the military remain behind unscathed. I can't send a young man or woman into a system so biased against them. First rule of computer consulting: Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day. Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJW Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Stan You make some good points, however I don't buy that some of these folks did not know they were not entitled to a VRB. Back in 75 when I came up for re-enlistment for the first time I had tracked what the VRB was for my MOS for almost a year before I could pull the trigger. I watched it go from a 4 down to a 2 before I could re-enlist for another 6 years. So I am guessing that lots of these folks knew what they had coming and what they did not. And as far as that MSG that got 30 months that SOB would never see the light of day again if I had been the judge, not for the money that he stole from the American Tax Payers but because he screwed over his fellow brothers in arms for his own personnel gain. Dennis USA Master Sergeant Ret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJW Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Well it looks like the SECDEF has put a stop to it. I think this is a good thing. Dennis USA Master Sergeant Ret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp51443 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 New longer article on the pause, not a stop of the clawback. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-defense-chief-pentagon-repayments-20161026-story.html First rule of computer consulting: Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day. Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Wood Posted November 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 It's about time common sense and and simple decency rose to the top. https://www.yahoo.com/news/lawmakers-calif-guard-troops-wont-repay-bonuses-153720105--politics.html Jim Jim SKP: 99693 If you think you can, or you think you can't. . . you are probably right (Henry Ford) 2021 Dodge 4WD Dually 1998 Carriage LS-341 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxon Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 Breibart is not a reliable news source to quote, hack journalism and highly partisan. Widely known as a false news source. ___________________________________ Bill & Kim's Marvelous Adventure Lazy Daze 24TK Land of Enchantment Lifetime SKP# 105622 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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