Dollytrolley Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 Ok......Take mom down to a memory center in S. Nev for a month and on the way back North to Oregon the Dollytrolley throws a code on the Driver Info Display that says "Inj #4 Ground fault" for about .......FIVE seconds out of a hour as we roll past Gold Field Nevada (Nowhere ) on our way to Battle Mtn Nevada via Austin NV (way past nowhere)....but when the fault shows up it drops into "Limp-Mode" AND LIMITS rpm to 1600 but thats no big deal since our geezer speed of 60 MPH on our back roads is about 1500 RPM so it's no big deal until .........downshift time .........limited to 1600 RPM is a bummer at downshift time....... Anyhow we overnite at the fairgrounds in Winnimucca, NV and the next morning I take the Dollytrolley down to the local Cummins shop and we hook up the laptop and run all the tests and........she is runs perfect for THREE hours of testing....of course..... Being retired what the heck just yank the valve cover off and test the injector coils and looms .......all OK..... So button everything up and off we go into 200 mile of more NOWHERE and overnite at the Sheldon Antelope National Refuge Hot Springs (Really in No-Where) and the next morning we break camp and load Dolly-the-paint-horse and.......wonder down Hwy 140 until we get to the first 1,000 foot cliffs that have a no-guard-rail narrow 8% to 10% grade with 20 MPH curves so........just before I get to the top of the hill before the descent guess what.........yep #4 Injector ground fault code and limp mode to 1600 RPM.......but about a quater mile before the top of the grade all returns to normal....... So what would Grumps do.........well Grumps did not have Jake Brakes so.......he geared down before descending and did not do a lot of downshifting down long grades.....so I backed off and coasted to the top of the grade and floated down to fifth and set low Jake and when I come to the sharp 20 MPH corners I selected high Jake and life was good down the cliff(s)..... So what is throwing the intermittent code......is it the #4 injector coil, is it the external injector loom or the internal injector loom or the ECM???? It seems to not be heat related so some "experts" discount the ECM and point to the looms.....but IF I wiggle the looms a LOT it will not throw the code....... Since the code is so rare it is a bugger to troubleshoot but it seems to me that it happens mostly when I am driving on the fairly rough outback roads on the way to the remote horse camps....... Maybe I might have to get one of those smooooth riding Volvos so that the old M11 won't throw the code???? I'll report back later......if I get back from .....the next no-where trip.......no worries......we can always ride Dolly-the-paint-horse back to WalMart..... in a pinch..... Drive on.......(What codes????) 97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekim Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 Why not move the #4 injector to another hole and see if the problem moves with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollytrolley Posted September 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 Why not move the #4 injector to another hole and see if the problem moves with it? Ekim, Ya a life long friend that owns a Cummins a shop in the middle of the Pacific (Hawaii) suggested swapping Injectors but he really leaned to looking hard at the looms and plugs first ......... Looms on a short nose Freightshaker are a royal pain to remove and replace so maybe IF I get motivated I might try one of the new spare injectors I have in stock....... Friend has offered to loan me one of his spare loaner ECM so maybe that might be easier swap than getting my hands dirty with the injector...... Being a Geezer is a lot of work....... trying to figure out how to get by with the least amount of....work.... Drive on......(so many choices...) 97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'mdonewiththis forum Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 Since rough terrain seems to be the 'apparent' cause of the code, it would suggest the harness is a more likely culprit. Those are the most difficult to locate. My daughter's Dodge/Cummins decided to make itself start when you turned the key to the run position and keep the starter running ONLY when it was wet out. It took me a couple of months to find that problem. Hers was a harness rubbing on a shock absorber washer. What I am trying to tell you is the actual problem may not be anywhere close to injector number four, but could be quite a ways from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindrift Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 Since I slept in a Holiday Inn last night, here goes. Back in the day, I could count on one hand the number of M11s that came into the shop with a bad harness. The harness should be well secured inside the rocker housing, plus the wire runs are very short which don't usually lead to a flopping/vibrating/wiggling wire. If the engine had been worked on previously by someone who didn't care to reinstall a harness clamp...there you go. Almost always, it was a bad injector. 2012 F350 KR CC DRW w/ some stuff 2019 Arctic Fox 32-5MCindy and Tom, Kasey and Maggie (our Newfie and Berner) Oh...I forgot the five kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alie&Jim's Carrilite Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 I'd swap injectors and see if it followed, or replace #4 and see if it goes away. How many miles on those injectors? We had a fuel line fitting crack on our M-11. Front high pressure line on the drivers side where it enters the head. At the shop, the service manager and mechanic both said they couldn't remember the last time the had an M-11 in for repair. They worked on truck and transmissions connected to the M-11, but rarely the engine itself. Jim's Adventures Old Spacecraft.... Who knows whats next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollytrolley Posted October 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 UPDATE: Yesterday I performed the .....Difbullater-Main-External-Harness-Test .........this was suggested by my life-long Cummins dealer.... CHILDERN do NOT try this at home........(but if you do)....so you crawl up on top of the valve cover and lay on your belly and stretch out with your left arm snaked back over the rear turbo side of the valve corner......Remove the engine pick-plate and then grab hold of the external injector loom where it plugs into the read of the valve chamber.......Then have your wife make sure that your feet are not sticking into the engine fan.......so.......then have the wife start the engine..........IF.......IF.......the harness has failed you will get a HUGE jolt every time the failed injector wire is fired by the Capacitive Discharge Unit in the ECM...........Now if you think the shocking from the failed harness hurts ....just wait till you jerk your leg out and stick your foot into the fan........ So I survived the Difbullater-Main-External-Harness-Test and the harness did not throw any codes so..... Next I take a three hour drive fast, slow, rough roads, smooth roads, up hill , down hill, even ground a few gears......darn thing ran perfect ....not ONE DARN Code.....zip... Since I slept in a Holiday Inn last night, here goes. Back in the day, I could count on one hand the number of M11s that came into the shop with a bad harness. The harness should be well secured inside the rocker housing, plus the wire runs are very short which don't usually lead to a flopping/vibrating/wiggling wire. If the engine had been worked on previously by someone who didn't care to reinstall a harness clamp...there you go. Almost always, it was a bad injector. The engine was out of frame overhauled with a new Cummins head with Injectors with low miles to date 22K since new injectors .....BUT.....EIGHT Years of very low use is very likely where my Code-Demons come into play......My Cummins friend says low hour sport fishing boats have intermittent codes due to lack of use allowing harness plugs becoming corroded and creating poor electrical connections.... The inside injector harness was new with the head and injectors and it had Adel clamps at each injector and all new loom and plugs. It is my lack of luck that a 22K injector coil is partially-failed so if I get energetic I might swap out one of my new spare injectors into #4 hole. Since rough terrain seems to be the 'apparent' cause of the code, it would suggest the harness is a more likely culprit. Those are the most difficult to locate. My daughter's Dodge/Cummins decided to make itself start when you turned the key to the run position and keep the starter running ONLY when it was wet out. It took me a couple of months to find that problem. Hers was a harness rubbing on a shock absorber washer. What I am trying to tell you is the actual problem may not be anywhere close to injector number four, but could be quite a ways from it. Tom, Since the internal injector harness check out OK during the last valve cover off adventure and I have wiggled the external harness that leaves the DREADED clen the ECM plugs (3) pulling, cleaning and grease and resealing........to get to the plugs I have to remove the driver side step / tank fairing and the inner fender panel.....IF I had a........Volvo.........I could just flop the hood forward and sit on the front tire and clean the plugs........oh well.... I'd swap injectors and see if it followed, or replace #4 and see if it goes away. How many miles on those injectors? We had a fuel line fitting crack on our M-11. Front high pressure line on the drivers side where it enters the head. At the shop, the service manager and mechanic both said they couldn't remember the last time the had an M-11 in for repair. They worked on truck and transmissions connected to the M-11, but rarely the engine itself. My Cummins dealer friend suggested swapping Inj # 4 & #3 inj but I am too lazy swap injectors and then find that indeed I have a bad injector so I would just drop a new injector into #4 hole if it comes to that ........first I plan to clean the ECM plugs and if it still throws a code I might just swap to the loaner ECM if it still throws codes I guess the injector change is the last part to change....... Wife says whats the big deal .....5 seconds of code display ever 4 hours is just a minor hick-up..........maybe mom is right.....heck, she is ALWAYS Right!! Time for more Prunooo and a.....geezer nap. Drive on.........(Too many codes....might have to ride Dolly-the-paint-horse.....home) 97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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