Oil

[tinstartrvlr]

Morning all,

 

Thought I would share this little bit of info and see what everyone thinks...

 

I was at a Ford dealer recently and having a discussion with the parts guy about "stuff" and the topic of oil came up. I use full synthetic in my Powerstroke diesel, and usually just use Motorcraft oil, but recently changed the oil using Shell Rotella full synthetic diesel oil since no Motorcraft oil was readily available. The parts guy "warned" me, that basically, Ford will not stand behind any crankcase or oil related emission problems if Rotella is used as it doesn't meet their specs,. Looking at the side of the Rotella container, it mentions it meets specs for Caterpillar, Volvo, Cummins but no mention of Ford. (or any other brands for that matter)

 

Considering what it costs to replace a diesel engine I am giving what he said a tiny bit of consideration.

 

Anyone think there is any truth to what he said? Do I really need to be that careful about what oil I use if I use anything other than Ford oil, as long as it is the proper weight and type?

 

I know the Moss act says I don't HAVE to use their oil, but I don't know if Moss applies if the wrong type of oil is used.

 

Have at it everyone...

 

 

[skp51443]

If you have oil in your engine that doesn't meet Ford's specs and they upon review of your problem decide it was caused by the oil you are facing a fight to get the warranty claim accepted.

 

I had several nice discussions with the Navistar folks on my MDT and oil, they told me that if there was an issue and I couldn't show that I'd met their rules for oil and change intervals the dealer would likely refuse to honor the claim. The dealer would if I insisted forward the damaged parts to the factory for evaluation and a second opinion which could get me the repair or a second denial. If denied then I could go the court route and try to prove my case that the oil was not at fault.

 

After a bit of thinking I decided that for the first 120,000 miles (the warranty period) I'd follow their rules as written and save my other options for when they wouldn't impact the warranty. It cost me a few bucks more for oil but it took having to plan on the truck being out of service for a couple months or more out of the picture.

 

Bottom line - use oil that meets all the ford specs at least until your warranty is up or be prepared for problems. The full specs for the oil should be in the owner's manual.

[tinstartrvlr]

Yeah Stanley,,that's pretty much what parts guy said, with the added comment "do you really want to fight the mfg since they have all the lawyers and engineers"..... and yet they provide no info (that I could find) in the manual or online about exactly what meets their "specs" other than vicosity. Typical corporate bs.

 

Thanks for the input

[TXiceman]

As long as the oil meets the required API or MIL spec per the owners manual, I do not see how Ford can deny any oil usage. Yes they have the lawyers and deep pockets, but if they start requiring a specific brand of oil it seems that they will have to include the oil and changes in the price of the vehicle for the life of the vehicle.

 

Recently had the oil changed at a Ford dealer and he said if Ford did not change the oil, to be sure and keep all of the receipts for the oil and filter with dates and write the mileage on them. He never mentioned it has to be Ford oil and cannot be Rotella. I am sure Shellw ill not be happy to be on the bad lists for oil.

 

Sounds like typical dealer BS to me.

 

Ken

 

Ken

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Rotella T1 single grade does NOT meet API -CJ-4 specs. All of the other Rotella oils (all multi-viscosity) do meet API CJ-4 specs (T4, T5 and T6) All Delo 400 oils meet API CJ-4 specs. The new CK-4 and FA-4 oils are due out next year and the CK-4 will replace the CJ-4 specs. For a quick read on what those changes are, try this link from Shell: http://rotella.shell.com/products/pc-11.html

[Al F]

On the other hand for the Ford Chassis & Ford large pickups with the TorqShift 5 speed transmission is very specific about requiring the Motorcraft transmission fluid. Looking at all the other transmission fluids in places like NAPA none of them had language which said it OK for the TroqShift.

 

So I use the $7-$8 a quart fluid that is only available is a few places.

[Chalkie]

Rotella T1 single grade does NOT meet API -CJ-4 specs. All of the other Rotella oils (all multi-viscosity) do meet API CJ-4 specs (T4, T5 and T6) All Delo 400 oils meet API CJ-4 specs. The new CK-4 and FA-4 oils are due out next year and the CK-4 will replace the CJ-4 specs. For a quick read on what those changes are, try this link from Shell: http://rotella.shell.com/products/pc-11.html

 

 

As long as the oil meets the required API or MIL spec per the owners manual, I do not see how Ford can deny any oil usage. Yes they have the lawyers and deep pockets, but if they start requiring a specific brand of oil it seems that they will have to include the oil and changes in the price of the vehicle for the life of the vehicle.

 

Recently had the oil changed at a Ford dealer and he said if Ford did not change the oil, to be sure and keep all of the receipts for the oil and filter with dates and write the mileage on them. He never mentioned it has to be Ford oil and cannot be Rotella. I am sure Shellw ill not be happy to be on the bad lists for oil.

 

Sounds like typical dealer BS to me.

 

Ken

 

Ken

 

I think I agree with Ken, The owners manual diesel supplement says for Full Synthetic 5W-40 or 0W-40 it needs to meet Ford spec WSS-M2C171-E. The Rotella brochure for the T6 Full Synthetic 5W-40 meets that spec. The brochure is here.

[BigTexRex]

 

 

 

I think I agree with Ken, The owners manual diesel supplement says for Full Synthetic 5W-40 or 0W-40 it needs to meet Ford spec WSS-M2C171-E. The Rotella brochure for the T6 Full Synthetic 5W-40 meets that spec. The brochure is here.

Thanks for posting the brochure. T6 gets a lot of love.

[tinstartrvlr]

Excellent information ,,,thank you for the input! Guess I missed the part in the manual about the "spec number" but that and the brochure was exactly what I needed to know (thanks Chalkie). I will now sleep better.....

[Davidjeff]

As long as the oil meets the required API or MIL spec per the owners manual, I do not see how Ford can deny any oil usage. Yes they have the lawyers and deep pockets, but if they start requiring a specific brand of oil it seems that they will have to include the oil and changes in the price of the vehicle for the life of the vehicle.

 

Recently had the oil changed at a Ford dealer and he said if Ford did not change the oil, to be sure and keep all of the receipts for the oil and filter with dates and write the mileage on them. He never mentioned it has to be Ford oil and cannot be Rotella. I am sure Shellw ill not be happy to be on the bad lists for oil.

 

Sounds like typical dealer BS to me.

 

Ken

 

^^^^^,, I have worked as a Ford tech for over 35 years and still working in Ford stealerships and agree with the above poster

 

[tinstartrvlr]

Update.....

 

Have since stopped at a couple dealerships and asked the same question and I am amazed at the responses. Seems there is no right answer; depends on who you ask.

 

A service writer at one dealership told me that Ford does not approve of Rotella (in spite of it meeting their severe use specs) and if any damage is caused as the result of oil while under warranty, they will not make repairs under warranty. I realize their manual says "recommended" oil, and that is their way out if there is a problem, but I believe the burden is on them to prove that the damage was the result of using other than their brand of oil. (Moss Act-please correct me if I am wrong).

 

Another service writer told me that Rotella was not a problem usually, but there have been some issues related to using it (incomplete lubrication) but that was in higher mileage motors (yet another dealer suggested Rotella was better for older engines, not newer ones).

 

I don't have a problem using their oil, but sometimes there isn't a dealer handy, and not everyone carries Motorcraft diesel oil should I want to buy it outright.

 

Then, a Ford mechanic told me he loves Rotella and uses it himself.

 

Arghhh......

 

Seems if Rotella is such a problem, Ford should make it known.

 

Thanks for all the responses.

[Chalkie]

I am just going to make an observation here.

 

Rotella is made by Shell. Does anyone here seriously think that Shell is going to sell an oil that would damage an engine, as long as it is used in an engine that calls for that spec?

 

Personally I do not think so. If you get something from a service writer just consider where they work and where they are going to get their biggest markups and therefore, biggest profits.

 

Here is another consideration. While not Shell, Valvoline will warrant any engine running their oil, as long as it meets manufacturer specs, with a complete replacement.

[297550]

I personally use the Dealer (Ford) for my service work, to include regular maintenance. They aren't the cheapest, but (generally) are most likely to have the correct parts (not "will fit", or "should work"), most likely to have current service bulletins and technical information and technicians with experience on MY brand of truck, not just a truck mechanic whose last two jobs were a RAM and a Chevy. As hs been pointed out, it is harder for them to question warranty claims if they did all the work.

[w6pea]

As long as the oil meets the required API or MIL spec per the owners manual, I do not see how Ford can deny any oil usage. Yes they have the lawyers and deep pockets, but if they start requiring a specific brand of oil it seems that they will have to include the oil and changes in the price of the vehicle for the life of the vehicle.

 

Recently had the oil changed at a Ford dealer and he said if Ford did not change the oil, to be sure and keep all of the receipts for the oil and filter with dates and write the mileage on them. He never mentioned it has to be Ford oil and cannot be Rotella. I am sure Shellw ill not be happy to be on the bad lists for oil.

 

Sounds like typical dealer BS to me.

 

Ken

 

Ken

 

 

I personally use the Dealer (Ford) for my service work, to include regular maintenance. They aren't the cheapest, but (generally) are most likely to have the correct parts (not "will fit", or "should work"), most likely to have current service bulletins and technical information and technicians with experience on MY brand of truck, not just a truck mechanic whose last two jobs were a RAM and a Chevy. As hs been pointed out, it is harder for them to question warranty claims if they did all the work.

 

 

My last truck was a Ford F-250. I bought a 2016 Ram 2500 with a Cummins Diesel. I got more song and dance and bovine excrement from almost every car dealer in San Diego County. (GMC. Chevrolet Ford and Ram)_ I choose the Ram for the dependability of the engine. I have an acquaintance that has more shop time on his F-350 Power Stroke than he does miles. I used the dealer for all service on my Ford and I intend to do the same on my Ram. I used what the dealer said to use. I will do the same for my Ram Truck and my wife's Jeep Grand Cherokee.

[tinstartrvlr]

Lots of interesting responses.

 

Bottom line for me is I agree with using the dealer as long as I am under warranty, for the simple fact that it would be hard for them to say the wrong whatever was used. Even so, I have run into some really questionable dealer service departments but I can only hope they are doing things the way they are supposed to.

[w6pea]

Lots of interesting responses.

 

Bottom line for me is I agree with using the dealer as long as I am under warranty, for the simple fact that it would be hard for them to say the wrong whatever was used. Even so, I have run into some really questionable dealer service departments but I can only hope they are doing things the way they are supposed to.

 

Very well put. I had a warranty issue with the TPMS (Tire Pressure Monitoring System) it indicated we had a flat left front tire. I was in Reno NV. I called 3 different dealers they all asked for the Vin# I gave them the requested info. Each asked how long we were going to be in Reno, we told them, sure seemed odd tat not one I repeat not one had an open slot for warranty repair. until one week to the day before we returned home to So. Cal. I also called Mopar Owner Assist. They got the same song and dance.

 

As long as my truck and my wife's vehicle are covered by the manufacturers warranty I will have them service at the dealer. I had my Ram truck serviced where I bought it, They used Shell Rotella T-5 Synthetic-Blend Oil. My Jeep calls for Synthetic-Blend Oil also. So if the dealer uses Full Synthetic Oil or Synthetic-Blend Oil. I will use what they put in the vehicle. Not because I want to use it but to protect the warranty. I was told that the Cummins Engine comes from the Factory with Valvoline Oil in it. I do not know how true that is some one will correct me if I'm mistaken.

[scouserl41]

While not directly related to the topic, the subject of dealer servicing does make my hackles rise. I bought a brand new Hundai several years back and took it in for the first service. They called me to come get it. When I got home I smelled burning oil and saw smoke coming from under the hood. When I lifted the hood there was oil running from the valve cover down the side of the engine onto the exhaust, the edges of the valve cover were flattened where the bolts were overtightened. In addition there were 4 bolts completely missing from the cover over the timing belt. I took it straight back and they refused to anything about it claiming I had tightened the bolts and removed the bolts AFTER I LEFT THEIR SHOP!. Their "Mechanics" would never do work like that so it must have been me.....

The only time my vehicles go to the dealer is for warranty work which has never been refused. If you keep a log oof work you have done with dates and mileages and do so consistently that will stand up in court.

RANT OVER

BnB

[Randyretired]

I took our Subaru to a dealer in Grand Junction, CO to have the transmission oil changed. The owners manual listed three oil brands that could be used and stated only those should be used. The dealer told me they would use Subaru Oil which was one of the approved oils. After the change the trasmission began to make noise. I sent a sample of the oil along with some Subaru Oil to a lab. These were not the same oil. After confronting the dealer they finally admitted they used a different, cheaper oil. However they refused to make it right with Subaru Oil. Eventually Subaru paid for an oil change and extended the warranty. Not all dealers are trustworthy.