Do you expect magic from your transmission (and drivetrain)?

[Jemstone]

My first truck was a Freightliner FL60, an auto shift, underpowered with a 250hp Cat. The clutch was only needed for first and reverse. During the time I had this truck my left knee was going bad and both hitching and city driving were uncomfortable and at times painful.

 

Since then I have had both knees replaced and have replaced the truck with an I-Shift Volvo 730. Hitching and city driving are no longer problems. However, I have also had to pay a fair amount for an I-Shift repair and, as the software Volvo uses is proprietary, only a Volvo dealer can service an uncooperative I-Shift.

 

Were I a lot younger, I'd be driving a manual and enjoying it. The first question from a truck transmission service business is "manual or automatic?" The second sentence is, "we don't work on automatics, you'll have to see a dealer." However, I'm not a lot younger and the automatic transmission allows my wife and I to continue spending six months on the road each year.

[Dollytrolley]

My first truck was a Freightliner FL60, an auto shift, underpowered with a 250hp Cat. The clutch was only needed for first and reverse. During the time I had this truck my left knee was going bad and both hitching and city driving were uncomfortable and at times painful.

Since then I have had both knees replaced and have replaced the truck with an I-Shift Volvo 730. Hitching and city driving are no longer problems. However, I have also had to pay a fair amount for an I-Shift repair and, as the software Volvo uses is proprietary, only a Volvo dealer can service an uncooperative I-Shift.

Were I a lot younger, I'd be driving a manual and enjoying it. The first question from a truck transmission service business is "manual or automatic?" The second sentence is, "we don't work on automatics, you'll have to see a dealer." However, I'm not a lot younger and the automatic transmission allows my wife and I to continue spending six months on the road each year.

Well Jem, you come close to hitting the nail on the head.....

 

The Dollymoma has hinted that she might "need" to get "qualified" to drive the Dollytrolley......Gulp.....

 

To make matters worse one of her cowgirl friends is a long time reefer driver for a major supermarket chain with her 2 million pin and she coaches new drivers for the chain driving 18 speed manuals in local drops all over the Seattle in the most hellish traffic.

 

I have floated the idea of having the lady train the Dollymoma but she is too busy and lives too far from us......bummer.

 

I used to fly some pretty crappy aircraft and it could be pretty dangerous way to make a buck.....but me trying to "teach" the Dollymoma my bad truck driving habits seems to dangerous to consider.......

 

In the real world th Dollymoma is a very good driver with tons of miles towing horse trailers with various pickups and never so much as a scratch.

 

Some folks joke that I am afraid that she could be a better Dollytrolley pilot than me.......very likely true I will admit.

 

I've lurked the ladies part of the forum and a fer gals have learned to drive manual rigs.......I am to lazy too try to teach my bad habits to the Dollymoma......

 

I have pondered dropping a Allison 6 speed into the Dollytrolley and then having her teach me how to drive it but I am too cheap and lazy to take on that project.......

 

Maybe send her to a truck driving school but then she would KNOW for shure how bad a truck pilot I am........

 

Boy oh boy sometimes this truck thing gets pretty complex........

 

Drive on.........( do I hear gears grinding......)

[VegasFlyer]

When it comes to transmissions I have become a convert. My first truck had a five speed main coupled to a four speed brownie box. I have also owned trucks that have had 13 speed and 20 speed road angers and the basic 9 and 10 speeds. With all of those truck I felt comfortable double clutching or old school no clutching, up, down and all around.

 

When we first started looking for our current truck, I was initially lookin for a Peterbilt 387 with a 13 speed. Well, we wound up with a Volvo 780 with an I-Shift and I have to say that I am completely impressed. This thing has never even so much as came close to grinding or missing a gear, even during a couple occasions where I was sure it would.

 

If you look at it from a pure non-emotional basis, I actually don't see how you can argue against them. The whole art of driving a non synchronized transmission is to matching engine speed to transmission speed, even the greatest of the the greatest truck drivers out there will be hard pressed to do as good of a job as a computer that will not attempt the shift unless the conditions are absolutely perfect. Now most experienced drivers can drive around and not grind a gear, but I am talking about perfectly matching the speed between the engine and tranny.

 

For the die hard truck drivers, you can still keep your wallet on a chain....lol

[Dollytrolley]

When it comes to transmissions I have become a convert. My first truck had a five speed main coupled to a four speed brownie box. I have also owned trucks that have had 13 speed and 20 speed road angers and the basic 9 and 10 speeds. With all of those truck I felt comfortable double clutching or old school no clutching, up, down and all around.

 

When we first started looking for our current truck, I was initially lookin for a Peterbilt 387 with a 13 speed. Well, we wound up with a Volvo 780 with an I-Shift and I have to say that I am completely impressed. This thing has never even so much as came close to grinding or missing a gear, even during a couple occasions where I was sure it would.

 

If you look at it from a pure non-emotional basis, I actually don't see how you can argue against them. The whole art of driving a non synchronized transmission is to matching engine speed to transmission speed, even the greatest of the the greatest truck drivers out there will be hard pressed to do as good of a job as a computer that will not attempt the shift unless the conditions are absolutely perfect. Now most experienced drivers can drive around and not grind a gear, but I am talking about perfectly matching the speed between the engine and tranny.

 

For the die hard truck drivers, you can still keep your wallet on a chain....lol

 

 

 

"The whole art of driving a non synchronized transmission is to matching engine speed to transmission speed,"

 

In a "less-than-perfect-world" there is a whole more factors in play than just getting a couple gear sets to engage with just a oil-film contact between a pair of gear teeth..........a whole more energy at play.

 

Some days I demand more from my truck and manual tranny than any auto-tranny computer is willing to put up with ( just like you stated Vegas..."as a computer that will not attempt the shift unless the conditions are absolutely perfect").

 

Example 1:

We own a couple of properties that are located in noise sensitive locations where I need to be very stealth in my entry and exit from the areas and with my manual I enter and depart the areas without ever touching the throttle and just float each gear at idle starting at 1 st all the way to 7th and we flow right into the local traffic and people are amazed at how gentle and stealth the truck and trailer can be. The streets are fairlly level and the engine loads are lighter that when the wet kit is engaged so it's just a example of many times where a manual tranny operation can be customized to get extra performance needed to perform a specialized task..........now is this cheating or gaming the drive train......no I make sure that I do not lug the engine any more than the wet kit ever does.

 

Example 2:

When I haul Dolly-the-paint-horse in any of our trailers towed with the Dollytrolley I place my "shift-computer" into ......."Dolly-shift-mode"....this is where I take extra care floating the shifts with the two-finger-nudge on the shifter and I .......ON PURPOSE.....strive to have a slight mismatch between engine and tranny engagement speeds..............why would anyone do that.......well with a gentle touch on the throttle AND a gentle pressure on the shifter you can feel the teeth slowly reach the sweet spot and just FALL into a ZERO-LOAD engagement and then you gently power up and ramp into the next float change......the whole idea is to never feel the actual shift in acceleration or deceleration.......does this take longer than normal shifts or auto-shifts .......yes.....but once you get the "feel" it amazing how smooth you can travel and the shifts are not excessively long.

 

Example 3:

Way out in the middle of nowhere recently we are humming along a outback road and I felt a slight change in engine power and a code poped up on the driver display and it said #4 injector ground fault.......humm.......we were cruising at 1450 RPM but if I tried to throttle up the ECM would not allow RPMs above 1600. It was near lunch time so I found a nice place to pull well off the road and tilted the hood up and yanked the valve cover off and checked the coil of #4 injector for ground fault......no fault was measured in the coil so that left the injector loom or the ECM to have the ground fault. The ground fault was intermittent so we just ate lunch and headed the last 300 miles home cruising at 1400 t0 1500 RPM with plenty of power even when the intermittent limp mode limited RPM to under 1600 RPM...........Here is the thing that you do not miss until you get into limp mode and that is the full RPM range that makes downshifts make sense.......so if your RPM range drops from 2000 RPM to 1600 RPM in limp mode you really have to drop a extra 400 RPM below normal to hit the downshift at the lower 1600 RPM limp-limit............We had two long curvy 8% to 10% long grades to descend so I geared down before the descents so no drama and the jake could care if we were in limp mode but the lower shift points were somewhat odd........but a manual tranny does not care.....you just keep on trucking and........ limping at the speed limit......

 

By the way.........when a manual tranny is in gear it seems that the engine and tranny are at EXACT match-gear speed just like a auto -manual....right?

 

Of course hard core grinding gears in a manual is no fun but a nice smooth fall-in-the-hole shift has its own rewards especially when its a Frank - shift.........you know ......when I have it...... "my way".....

 

Now with all my preaching I am pondering a auto-tranny of some sort simply because I have little desire to teach my wife my bad manual driving habits......so maybe I just might try a auto in the future........

 

Drive on.......(how many shifts....today?)

[Scrap]

1A: Put the auto in creep mode. It does just that but it stops at 4th. It won't shift a range in creep cuz, well, you aren't really creeping anymore.

 

1B: Enter yourself into secondary mode as you enter the neighborhood. If this is a common occurrence then you'd program in your secondary mode set up to always drive this way and you can go past 4th. It'll automatically revert to your road mode at 35 or 45 (you set) as you are 'flowing' back into traffic. Normally secondary mode is for how your truck is supposed to work after you've crossed the cattle guard and gone off the pavement but I suppose neighborhood or RV park manners is kind of the same thing.

 

1C: A two pedal and a pto pump is just about the dumbest thing you've ever driven. Grumps would be like WTF?? Finally in the last year or two they've come out with hotshifters that can handle the torque of an 8-bolt. They are worth every penny. Don't build up a 2 pedal truck without it.

 

2: You know my opinion; the automatic should be driven like this anyways. Drop torque, push the button, pre-land your next RPM before the automatic even knows it needs to be there. You can program it to soft, slow shift schedule if you need it to do it for you. But it's a global change. 3 second shifts on every shift the truck ever makes. Brutally boring.

 

3: The transmission is pretty much of the opinion that if you are going to override your VSL protect parameter setting (or whatever old school Cummins calls it) then you should just straight up reprogram your truck to whatever RPM you want it to be. The automatic trans will override it if it has to but it won't do it happily. There will be dinger.

 

And remember that I-Shift does not set engine and tranny at exact match gear-speed all the time. It has a single disc organic (push) clutch and it is darn sure not afraid to use it. It'll fudge driver errors for you that used to have Grumps cussing you up one side of the mill pond and down the other.

[Jack Mayer]

I'll say what I have said in the past.

 

No driver is going to beat a NEW automated trans over time. I think even Scrap would agree to that...although he certainly gives them a run for the money.

 

You can think of all kinds of situations where a highly skilled driver might do something different than the trans will. Highly skilled, and "on their game" are the key conditions. But drivers are not "on their game" most of the time. Sure, in routine conditions it is easy. But the automated trans makes it look easy almost all the time, and if you use them effectively, then VERY close to ALL the time.

 

My opinion, for what it is worth....but I defer to Scrap....

[gjhunter01]

In the last year and a half different members in our family have bought used Freightliners for commercial hauling, son got a 05 and brother got a 12 and both trucks had automatic trans. The 05 truck had 900k miles and started acting up in the first 6 months, end result was a 10 speed manual and bill of $8k. Now the 12 is in the shop with 500k miles getting a new auto trans installed. $$ yet to be determined. I like driving the auto, but am becoming pro manual.

Greg

[Dollytrolley]

1A: Put the auto in creep mode. It does just that but it stops at 4th. It won't shift a range in creep cuz, well, you aren't really creeping anymore.

 

1B: Enter yourself into secondary mode as you enter the neighborhood. If this is a common occurrence then you'd program in your secondary mode set up to always drive this way and you can go past 4th. It'll automatically revert to your road mode at 35 or 45 (you set) as you are 'flowing' back into traffic. Normally secondary mode is for how your truck is supposed to work after you've crossed the cattle guard and gone off the pavement but I suppose neighborhood or RV park manners is kind of the same thing.

 

1C: A two pedal and a pto pump is just about the dumbest thing you've ever driven. Grumps would be like WTF?? Finally in the last year or two they've come out with hotshifters that can handle the torque of an 8-bolt. They are worth every penny. Don't build up a 2 pedal truck without it.

 

2: You know my opinion; the automatic should be driven like this anyways. Drop torque, push the button, pre-land your next RPM before the automatic even knows it needs to be there. You can program it to soft, slow shift schedule if you need it to do it for you. But it's a global change. 3 second shifts on every shift the truck ever makes. Brutally boring.

 

3: The transmission is pretty much of the opinion that if you are going to override your VSL protect parameter setting (or whatever old school Cummins calls it) then you should just straight up reprogram your truck to whatever RPM you want it to be. The automatic trans will override it if it has to but it won't do it happily. There will be dinger.

 

And remember that I-Shift does not set engine and tranny at exact match gear-speed all the time. It has a single disc organic (push) clutch and it is darn sure not afraid to use it. It'll fudge driver errors for you that used to have Grumps cussing you up one side of the mill pond and down the other.

Scrap,

You have got me nailed right to the cross and as far as I know you have never stepped on my fingers at the dingy trucker bar in Ballard......

 

All this time I was clueless .........I thought I was just nudging the Dollytrolley down the back road pig trails out west and then you come along and see right through me.........What can I say.....Your right......I am a "shift-programmer" that tends to be in creep mode some of the time.....

 

After reading the part your post about "secondary-mode" I feel like I might be a "programmer" that tends to hack......

 

I gotta hand it to you......you got big ball-bearings telling a god-like computer how YOU want the truck to operate.......maybe you are a bit of a auto-hacker yourself?

 

Sure glad Grumps is dead .....l.he would be a tad upset to find out how hard it is to PROPERLY shift a darn truck.....just imagine the millions he left on the table being.......a shiftless-creep in secondary mode.

 

Scrap you are a great "truck-shrink" your pay grade needs to be raised.

 

One of my life long friends was a nerd before computers but he is a heck of a programmer .......he did Navy flight sims and then for NASA did space shuttle auto pilot programs.......maybe if I take the plunge into the "present-day-auto-tranny-truck" I could have Paul ride shotgun and program the tranny on the fly.......kinda like the old time riding mechanics at Indy.....

 

Scrap, Grumps would like you....

 

Drive on......... (Creep rhymes with....cheep)

[Steve from SoCal]

Your starting to creep me out Dolly. Actually if I were to be a backroads camper I would only want a standard trans.

I was at a fair in Colorado last week and it was 15 miles of cow trail to the event, I would NOT have been

comfortable in a autoshift truck. Tight turns on rapidly rising terrain with stops in many places. This

IMHO is where the human computer exceeds all others. At least at this point in time and place.

 

I fiddle with Mercedes cars and, one of my projects involved adding traction control to a car. Bosch and

and MB were working on traction systems in the early 1980's. They outfitted a tractor/trailer with traction

control and, drove a rubber tired truck on polished ice. That technology is common in passenger cars today,

it is available on some trucks. I would want this with an automated trans in a truck if, I regularly wnet

off paved roads and, traveled muddy trails.

 

Steve

[noteven]

3406C grader motor, warmed up a little to say 600hp

 

Allison 750 - old fashioned T handle "driver interface"

 

What could be more fun in a RV puller?

[MrSeas]

You guys seem to be forgetting that these transmissions are "automated manual" means you have manual control when ever you feel the need! Just push the button(s)! The best part is no grinding sound ever!

[noteven]

Your starting to creep me out Dolly. Actually if I were to be a backroads camper I would only want a standard trans.

I was at a fair in Colorado last week and it was 15 miles of cow trail to the event, I would NOT have been

comfortable in a autoshift truck. Tight turns on rapidly rising terrain with stops in many places. This

IMHO is where the human computer exceeds all others. At least at this point in time and place.

 

I fiddle with Mercedes cars and, one of my projects involved adding traction control to a car. Bosch and

and MB were working on traction systems in the early 1980's. They outfitted a tractor/trailer with traction

control and, drove a rubber tired truck on polished ice. That technology is common in passenger cars today,

it is available on some trucks. I would want this with an automated trans in a truck if, I regularly wnet

off paved roads and, traveled muddy trails.

 

Steve

 

Steve - All Eaton automated transmission systems require the truck to have traction control to prevent shifting events during Frantic Wheelspin events It is amazing what it can (and sometimes cannot) do...

 

But there again it is not really "automatic" but rather "automated" - you still need to use the noggin to get the full benefit..

 

It is optional on manual transmission trucks these days too.

[Dollytrolley]

You guys seem to be forgetting that these transmissions are "automated manual" means you have manual control when ever you feel the need! Just push the button(s)! The best part is no grinding sound ever!

 

Good evening Seas,

 

 

Obviously you have been buying poor ole Scrap the triple-shot-hi-test-Starbucks to encourage his............Auto-tranny-computer-abuse.....

 

Scrap typed in post # 30:

"You know my opinion; the automatic should be driven like this anyways. Drop torque, push the button, pre-land your next RPM before the automatic even knows it needs to be there."

 

I don't know about the rest of you folks, but I kinda got a tear in my eye feel'n sorry for the poor tranny computer being bullied around by some guy insisting on THINKING ahead of the computer........on top of that, part of the computers job is to try to become one with the driver and "learn" how to make the drivers ....uh....."mismanagement-of-truck-kinetics" less ......uh....."ineffecient"......ya gotta feel the pain for the computer trying to get by and at every "thought" of a shift, being overruled by the "bully" bouncing on a airide-seat........I can't imagine what the poor tranny computer's "Memory" must look like once Scrap gets his password entered and starts messing with the GLOBAL commands in the black box.........where are the auto-tranny-police when you need them......

 

Ya know maybe Vegas Flyer hit the nail on the head.......if ya gotta a chain on your wallet...... maybe you should not be allowed to mess with a auto-tranny-truck........

 

Mom had a trying August in memory care and got evicted from another care facility so messing with "memory-programing" can get dicey at times ...........Punching too many "buttons" on the ole-auto-tranny seems like giving advice to the doc while he is performing a vasectomy on you..........your timing might not be right......

 

We have been ignoring the unsung hero in the drive train (the clutch) and a two peddle truck seems to have been designed with Scrap in mind........just imagine the abuse Scrap could dish out IF a clutch peddle was in the truck......imagine......

 

Shucks, I feel the urge to go out and buy a couple of auto-trucks.....maybe a early three peddle one and a late two peddle rig......then maybe get Scrap a six-pack of Dr. Pepper and have him "teach" me all the tricks to drive the tranny's crazy......

 

Drive on........(how peddles does this thing have?)

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Do you know what Scrap does around 50% of his time at work? No, it's not helping me out.

 

He also gets out and drives these trucks all over the country, in the mountains, on the flats, loaded and unloaded. You can get the new trannies to learn your style of shifting and I learned a lot of new tricks with the Cummins/Eaton combo in my truck with the tips from Scrap.

[Scrap]

First 2 pedal I ever had......

 

[RickS]

I really like the i-shift in my 2015 Volvo. It's funny while traveling in the west and lots of mountains the i-shift seems to be better on cruise than me interfering by putting my foot on the floor. When Volvo brings the dual clutch i-shift that is available in Europe to NA that will be something.

[Dollytrolley]

First 2 pedal I ever had......

 

 

Ok Scrap.....

 

Here ya are drifting around the inside of the corner in your tow-peddle-wonder-rig and ...........here comes Grumps in the old 54 Kwopper with a Stanley stainless coffee cup in his left hand on the wheel and he is steaming upshift to third main to overdrive on the brownie and he has a pile of P_ss Fir stacked way too high on the logs bunks ....AND.... he has the can lid of Prince Albert in his teeth shaking some tobakee into a ZEE paper and rolling a new fag ...........so..........should Grumps just drift over and pass you on the outside of the turn and light up the fag.... or...........should just relax and say.........."oh no worry.....Scraps computer will make everything hunkydorry???"

 

Grumps would like you a lot, Scrap.

 

Drive on..........(what corner??)

[noteven]

Dolly - the road up Pikes Peak is one way certain times of the year

[Dollytrolley]

Dolly - the road up Pikes Peak is one way certain times of the year

Shucks Not, don't worry about the road up Pikes-mole-hill being one-way.......it's the blood red Kwopper smoking DOWN and round the hairpins with Scrap poking-the-tranny-computer in the re-program-port with a hacked program from a V. O. L. V. O o. o. .....We-shift...that ya gotta worry about........

 

Grumps would tell you......."any fool knows the old low-boy smoking (brakes) down the grade with a D-8 Cat Dozer with a 12 foot U-blade hanging over the sides.....Alway has the right of way........Always...."

 

Same goes for Scrap in the picture....... Even Scraps tranny computer knows it's always a one way trip......Scraps Way.......

 

I never imagined being shift-less could be so entertaining.....

 

Drive on........(remember......Scrap always has the rite-0-way in "secondary-mode")

[noteven]

Ha ha Dolly that's right -

 

Bruce Canepa on Pike's Peak back in history with a T2000 tandem drive - rally shifter - and Kenworth Airglide suspension putting the power down in poor traction conditions vs jacking the frame up and down... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Z84qQ2e6U

[noteven]

This truck has an Allison "automatic"...(and hear that locomotive idle sound ... a Series 60 o.m.g.!) note postion of Bruce Canepa's hands.

Note the skillful U-turn at the beginning to go back to his campsite...

..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ilf7VF9AWUg

[Exile]

I think i would need a pair of brown pants to ride with him . . . Or they would be by the time we made it to the top anyway.

[Dollytrolley]

Here I am hijacking a thread I started....... but sorta not.....

 

A couple years ago I relocated a pretty nice 2013.... V O L V 0 .....toterhome a couple of time and it had a Ishift and i........actually survived and sorta enjoyed having to not do hardly anything.......so in my new found spare time I tried .....thinking......and I wondered why I never recalled seeing any newer of the higher-end Class A motorhomes with a Automated manual trans........it seems like the new automated manuals would be a nice option over a Allison true auto simply from the extra gears and potential better mileage......

 

Maybe some class A auto-manuals are out on the market but I do not recall see any.......

 

Anyone ever see a auto-manual-class A ??

 

Drive on.........(What tranny do you have?)

[Steve from SoCal]

I don't know about RV's but, I understand several motor coaches use ZF 12 or 16 speed transmissions. The

lawsuit that prevented Meritor from selling into the US market did not affect the production of ZF world

transmissions. There are a number of European buses sold in the US.

 

Steve

[Jack Mayer]

Prevost coaches have used the IShift since around 2008 - first as an option to the Allison 500, and I think it is now standard. Prevost is owned by Volvo, which is why they all now have Volvo engines.