Alie&Jim's Carrilite Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 I thought I would drop this here.... http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2016/07/18/2017-ford-f-series-super-duty-is-torque-and-towing-king/ The result is a maximum gooseneck trailer rating of 32,500 pounds for the F-450 SuperCrew 4x4, which can also pull a 21,000-pound conventional trailer, and an F-350 with a payload rating of 7,630 pounds. For those that don't want to open the link, the paragraph above is the best sentence I've read about capacities lately. Note the word gooseneck that I enlarged. Not 5th wheel, or trailer with a large frontal mass. And they say that they are the leaders of the pack now. So where does that actually leave Ram? Alie & Jim + 8 paws 2017 DRV Memphis BART- 1998 Volvo 610 Lil'ole 6cyl Cummins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 The problem when you get up to the heavier end of the ratings is not what they can tow, but what they can put on their rear axle. That is why Ford - to date - has an F450 that really is not near as capable as the Dodge. The rear axle GAWR is too low. So it cannot take the heavier pin trailers, where the Dodge can (in the 5500/450/550 classes). It will be interesting to see new data sheets. Right now the Dodge 5500 is the "super-pickup" of choice. Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member Living on the road since 2000PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail 2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it) 2022 New Horizons 43' 5er 2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units 2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck -------------------------------------------------------------------------See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar powerwww.jackdanmayer.com Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinbad5024 Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Have to remember that in some cases in towing that much, a CDL will be required for that weight. Also, it's still a Powerstroke, don't trust any of those engines, too many problems. I would stick with the Cummins. I looked at the 5500 before buying the Volvo. Couldn't find one that didn't look like it was excessively abused for under $30k. Paid less than that for the Volvo. 2007 Volvo VNL 780 "Vlad" 2008 Dutchmen Grand Junction 34QRL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hone eagle Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Sinbad there are powerstrokes supplied to Ford by International and powerstrokes designed and built 'in-house'. since at least 2010 the diesel ford uses is their own design and build, now producing over 900 tarks . I bet it will be over 1000ftlbs in a couple of years. 2005 volvo 670 freedomline singledNewmar Torrey Pine 34rskswoot woot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinbad5024 Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Correct Hone Eagle, The international (7.3) is a very good engine. The Ford (6.0, 6.4 and 6.7) have had more problems than I care to count. That is why good Ford diesel techs make over $100k a year. Still wouldn't buy a Ford with an "in house" engine. 2007 Volvo VNL 780 "Vlad" 2008 Dutchmen Grand Junction 34QRL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiaHybrid Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Sinbad, The late model 6.7 engine has been very reliable so far other than the exhaust temp sensors which are covered under an extended warranty. I do agree the 6.0 and 6.4 engines are not that reliable until they have some work done to them however 2017 Kenworth T6802015 DRV 38RSSA Elite Suites2016 Smart Prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Weren't 6.0 and 6.4 International motors? KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahoe Shark Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 I just saw a press release from Ford that said the new 2017 F450 will have a payload of 7600 lb. That is very high. Tim & Cheryl 2015 Mobile Suites 39 TKSB3 2009 Volvo 670 D13 I-Shift “Walter” Happily Living Somewhere In Nevada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiaHybrid Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 rickeieio, on 20 Jul 2016 - 4:51 PM, said:Weren't 6.0 and 6.4 International motors? They were International motors with Ford required changes. The 6.7 was designed and built by Ford 2017 Kenworth T6802015 DRV 38RSSA Elite Suites2016 Smart Prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hone eagle Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 They were International motors with Ford required changes. The 6.7 was designed and built by Ford Exactly - the 6.7 has been in ford trucks for 6 years . 2005 volvo 670 freedomline singledNewmar Torrey Pine 34rskswoot woot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armyret Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Knock on wood I have a job one F450 2008 with 6.4 not a problem towing my 17K 5th wheel. Truck now has 140k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinbad5024 Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 Sinbad, The late model 6.7 engine has been very reliable so far other than the exhaust temp sensors which are covered under an extended warranty. I do agree the 6.0 and 6.4 engines are not that reliable until they have some work done to them however I have heard that about the 6.7 but I have been out of the auto industry for about 6 years now and don't follow it as much as I used to. I believe that if you have to "bulletproof" your engine (6.0 and 6.4) before you can put any HP/TQ to it, your engine manufacturer is doing something wrong. Armyret, Good to hear, hopefully you will have years and many miles of reliable use out of that. 2007 Volvo VNL 780 "Vlad" 2008 Dutchmen Grand Junction 34QRL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shorts Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 real truck engines have 6 cylinders and no sparkplugs. the small V8 diesels are turned up and spun to fast to be reliable long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckman Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 Have to remember that in some cases in towing that much, a CDL will be required for that weight. Also, it's still a Powerstroke, don't trust any of those engines, too many problems. I would stick with the Cummins. I looked at the 5500 before buying the Volvo. Couldn't find one that didn't look like it was excessively abused for under $30k. Paid less than that for the Volvo. Weight doesn't require a CDL, commercial use does that. Some but not all states require a different class license based on weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newadventurers Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 We had a 2011 ford 6.7L F350 and found out that Ford won't honor the warranty. at 62K miles we started to have injector problems after paying for 2 injectors at $2,000 a pop and Ford would not honor their warranty we traded for a new Ram and have not been happier.... Terry and Lindsey and our Border Collie Daisy Mae 2008 Select Suites 36 TK3 2015 Ram 3500 Laramie Longhorn Crew Cab DRW Fulltimers since May 20, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 We had a 2011 ford 6.7L F350 and found out that Ford won't honor the warranty. at 62K miles we started to have injector problems after paying for 2 injectors at $2,000 a pop and Ford would not honor their warranty we traded for a new Ram and have not been happier.... I'm curious about your statement. Did Ford deny a warranty claim? Were you within the miles and time? I don't see how they could deny an injector claim if you were??? Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member Living on the road since 2000PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail 2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it) 2022 New Horizons 43' 5er 2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units 2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck -------------------------------------------------------------------------See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar powerwww.jackdanmayer.com Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peety3 Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 Have to remember that in some cases in towing that much, a CDL will be required for that weight. Also, it's still a Powerstroke, don't trust any of those engines, too many problems. I would stick with the Cummins. I looked at the 5500 before buying the Volvo. Couldn't find one that didn't look like it was excessively abused for under $30k. Paid less than that for the Volvo. Trailer over 10k requires a higher class of license, Class A. In some states, that means CDL. In other states, it just means a Class A license instead of a Class C (vehicle <26k, trailer <10k). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peety3 Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 real truck engines have 6 cylinders and no sparkplugs. the small V8 diesels are turned up and spun to fast to be reliable long term. The "small V8 diesels" don't have spark plugs either. My 7.3L Powerstroke V8 is doing fine with 227k on it, which is no small engine next to a Dodge/Cummins 5.9L. Something to be said for V8 versus I/V6: peak/instantaneous torque of an 8-cylinder is lower than a 6-cylinder, as an 8 only has to propel the crankshaft an average of 90 degrees per combustion event, whereas a 6 has to propel the crankshaft an average of 120 degrees per combustion event. I've heard this has created challenges for the transmissions behind Dodge/Cummins engines (though admittedly I've had to replace my transmission twice...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 Original 5.9 Cummins were detuned to reduce torque on the trannies. Of course smart guys noticed and said "whats this BS" and brought them back to the "standard" rating or beyond. Next thing you know, you are in the trannie shop with a blown one. Then the smart guys said "this is BS too" and came out with kits and methods how to bullet proof the trannies to take the additional (unplanned for) torque. This is not the first time the plenty of money was made on lack of foresight, incompetence, or stupidity by big companies. Pick one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollytrolley Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 Original 5.9 Cummins were detuned to reduce torque on the trannies. Of course smart guys noticed and said "whats this BS" and brought them back to the "standard" rating or beyond. Next thing you know, you are in the trannie shop with a blown one. Then the smart guys said "this is BS too" and came out with kits and methods how to bullet proof the trannies to take the additional (unplanned for) torque. This is not the first time the plenty of money was made on lack of foresight, incompetence, or stupidity by big companies. Pick one. Henry, You old-goat.....your "KNEE-JERK" reaction must indicate that the New-Knees are ....Up & Running ......just fine..... Ok....OK....back the regularly scheduled topic of the post........I just could not pass up the ......the Knee-comment.... On the topic of injectors, the Dollytrolley came into the family with a fair size box of spare parts and a new injector at $288.78 plus $11.61 frt was included in the spares.......it takes about 4 hours for a slow mechanic to drop a new injector into a Cummins M11 so it looks like $600 or $700 gets you a new injector & installed.........of course the first run-out on the M11 went 1,018,936 mile without any need of the spare injector so maybe I might just pickle the injector and have it cyro-preserved.......... Someday maybe cheep old me might strike it rich and get me one of those newer super-pickups........just never been that mad at my money yet...... Drive on..........(What rating....matters today) 97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 Dolly, there is a rich storehouse of anecdotes, critical notes and other things ready to share in this 72 years old brain and you are right sometimes they come out in a knee-jerk fashion. It could be that these being were very recently manipulated by an aggressive PT processional, invariably put me into very choleric disposition. But there is stored knowledge I attained in my callow youth which has to do with Fords, Allisons, 5.9 Cummins, International and 7.2 Internationals. The learning process was long, painful attained in small steps. Having "graduated beyond pickups there was this. Birthed as Ford E-350 diesel, converted to a Cabriolet puller, converted once more by some yahoos in White Pigeon Michigan. Ford diesel and tranny was removed replaced by 5.9 Cummins coupled to a school bus (removed from) Allison 4 speed and external electronic two speed box (to raise the RPMs the rear end saw). We renamed it a Beast, an owner of another renamed his a Belzebub! That's a clue! Here I am rewiring the Beast, why it didn't catch on fire was a miracle. You can see how far into the cab the 6 cylinder in-line 5.9 was projecting. A custom fiberglass hump cover was fabricated by the yahoos in White Pigeon to deal with the projection. After rewiring a custom dashboard was created. After the Beast we were introduced to the International products. This one had that legendary 7.2 diesel V-8, coupled to a 4 speed Allison. Pretty standard you might say, however, it is neither in mine nor my wife's personality profile to own something that is straightforward or "normal". This one came with propane fuel injection on that 7.2, hence that big ass propane tank in the back. The system worked like a charm for climbing long hills or passing on flats. 1600 mile trip from NH to FL required one propane fill-up on the way down and another on the way up. The knowledge acquired to deal with both trucks was attained before the Big Three have undertaken the projects to manufacture their own diesel pickup. I was beyond the pickup phase by then and observed the fits and starts and disasters by Ford, Dodge and Chevy with amusement and bemusement. If I was still in the pickup phase then, I know I wouldn't be amused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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