NEW FIREARM LAWS IN CALIFORNIA

[Broncohauler]

Guys seems like we've gone from trying to help clear up some new gun laws to really bashing the people of CA.

We already know we're not liked in Washington,Oregon,Utah, Idaho and it's starting to be that way in Texas from what I've heard from friends.

People have sold their CA homes for profit and paid cash in other states driving up home prices. Not sure that's so bad for you??

But drawing dividing lines at are state lines is out of control.

I grew up in the beach area of San Diego and to this day we know that June ,July, and August our beaches are for the tourists , and we get them back in September.

San Diego's money has always come from tourism and military and we embrace it as long as property is respected.

It's very hurtful to here you don't want me to visit your Beautiful states. But you'll always be welcome in mine even if you choose not to come here.

Maybe we need to let this one die.

 

Bret I'm sorry I'll miss you while your here, Escondido is only 40min north west of me but I'm in big bear till Wednesday.

Highway 78 sucks in the morning and late afternoon noon.

Get the chance check out the glider port at Torrey Pines. They have hang gliding and parasailing you can do tandem with an instructor very reasonably priced.

There's also a deli there that makes great sandwiches. One of the best places to watch the sunset.

Lajolla Shores is a good beach pay attention to the l Leopard sharks swimming up-and-down when you walk out into the water it's very cool there will be many.

You can also rent kayaks there which is a blast to kayak over towards La Jolla Cove caves.

La Jolla Cove is great for snorkeling lots of seals to watch.

If I can answer any questions feel free to ask.

Charlie

[RV_]

For the 7 years we full timed, we used to stay at Fiddler's Cove Military FamCamp and yacht club next to the Navy SEAL training center, on the peninsula that ends in Coronado, all on San Diego Bay on one side and the Pacific on the other. My mom was still alive and lived there. She had Alzheimer's, so we spent as much time every year as we could visiting. I also have three brothers she took out there, while I stayed in CT until I had to evade the draft. It had the most perfect weather in our opinion of anywhere in the U.S. We either stopped on our way out from our winter quarters in Louisiana, or on the way back. From there we either went North to Salt Lake City, or to Astoria as our jumping off point to the SeaTac area and the FamCamp at McChord AFB, or exploring the Washington Peninsula and staying at the Evergreen Coop. We stayed at Travis AFB for several months helping the hosts and exploring the wine country in 2000. We met some great people and in the central valley we had a breakdown and met some terrific rural folks as well as the city folks.

 

No, I never lived in California. From birth we lived in Denver, Wheeling West Virginia, Steubenville Ohio, Miami, Bogota Colombia, and Connecticut. Then into the USAF at San Antonio and Barksdale Louisiana. We enjoyed our visits there, but left as soon as we could because of the cost of fuel. That is the great thing about the freedoms we have. If we don't like the political climate of one place we can move to another.

 

We had our guns with us every time. I guess my custom 10-22 with 15 round magazines and my .40 cal Beretta 96 with 15 round stock magazines and my optional 20 round magazine are no longer welcome. Oh well. No king of the hill or sleep lost over it. My wife's S&W .40 and 20ga 870. Funny, like online, we met nice folks all over and not so nice very rarely. If I visit there again we will fly in and carry nothing. You know no one has to carry here in the US. It is a choice, not a necessity for me.

[Broncohauler]

On edit for anyone. You can park your truck and trailer at the Torry pines glider port it's very large dirt area on the cliffs above Blacks Beach and backs up to Torry pines golf course. There is no safe beach access and blacks is a nude beach. Don't worry it's about a 200 ft cliff your kids won't see anything. but you can unload your car and explore down the cost line from there.

Sunset is spectacular. But you must leave by dark.

I-5 to The Genesee west exit follow around and you'll see a small sign for the glider port near UCSD college. Turn right and follow it out into the dirt lot.

[Dollytrolley]

You know no one has to carry here in the US. It is a choice, not a necessity for me.

RV,

 

You bring a pretty good point to the subject thread.

 

Sometimes I feel really OLD and past being a GEEZER.....sometimes I feel like a Fossil of a extinct species.....

 

You see I have a 30-06 rifle that has the letter "A" scrawled in pencil lead under the barrel on the stock......who scrawled the letter "A" in a hidden spot on my rifle stock ? ? was it a terrorist ? was it a "prepper"?, was it a "wanna-be-sniper"?..........no.... Mr. James one of my high school shop teachers scrawled the letter "A" inside my rifle stock as a grade for the custom rifle that I built in High School........

 

The sad thing is that I seldom ever mention the rifle that I built in High School because I am sure almost no one could believe that this could be true......AND...... IF I mentioned that I fired the rifle in the High School shop I might be hauled away in cuffs to a undisclosed location.......but you know being a Geezer / Fosill I suppose I could claim "Discretionary Immunity" .

 

Yes indeed a "gang" of us "punks" in High School shop class "Openly" built long guns in shop class and were graded with a fine eye by Mr James who was a fine gunsmith.

 

Ok us punks built some guns in School but no that was not good enough for Mr James, he said any "punk" could "cobble-up-a-gun"...oh no we had to test our "projects"......we had to test-fire our guns utilizing the chronograph that we also designed and built in class.........

 

Our shop built Chronograph used a rapidly rotating axle with two disks mounted on it about 13 feet apart. The bullet was fired parallel to the axle, and the angular displacement of the holes in the two disks, together with the rotational speed of the axle, when calculated (Math class)yielded the bullet velocity.

 

Unlike today, when shooting at a school is very bad news.........us "soon-to-be-fossils" had strict "School-rules" that we had to abide by.

 

1. No gun could be fired without the shop instructors DIRECT supervision!

2. No gun could be placed on the firing line without the DIRECT order of the shop instructor

3. NO gun could be loaded and action could be closed UNTIL the shop instructor gave the order.

4. NO gun action could be closed until the shooter was in the firing position on the fire line AND ordered to close the action by the shop instructor

5. No guns were allowed to be fired during normal school hours.

6. ANYONE that EVER violated ANY of the gun-related rules forfeited the gun and NEVER was allowed in any gun related projected, EVER!!

 

We students designed and built the fire-line, the Chronograph, the targets, and the bullet traps......it was how education worked in the stone age........

 

No one ever was ever injured during our gun activities at school......EVER.........until many decades later when a "sick-punk" took a gun and killed his parents and then went to his school in Springfield, Ore and killed some more folks....

 

Boy oh boy times have changed and it appears that gun laws will continue to "evolve" but I fear that more and more gun laws are NOT the answer......

 

I grew up as a kid carrying guns safely around many kids carrying guns also safely..........now I just shake my head when I see how many folks seem to have to carry guns almost all of the time.......

 

"Grumps" used to say........"IF you live long enough......you'll know when its time to check-out......."

 

Just knowing that many of these CC folks have passed a 3 hour class seems to not make me feel much safer for some reason.....

 

Scumbags have alway seemed able to get guns it's just the way history works but having everyone carry seems a odd way to try to fix the age-old-scumbag problems.

 

Having operated some of my adult life in some very dangerous locations around the world I will tell you that the MOST dangerous locations were where ALMOST EVERYONE was packing a gun or two or more......

 

California is......Kalifornia what can you say........having been born in Oregon only a couple hundred miles kept me from being a "Golden-boy"...

 

You gotta admit....Kalifornia is pretty bold to try almost any law or regulation or policy and then even if they turn out bad stick with them for a very long time.......its a kalifornia thing (and it's getting to be a Oregon-thing as well).

 

So as Dirty Harry said..........."ya-feelin-lucky-punk".........I not sure I want to take the old-hog-leg to the Golden state......

 

Drive on........(don't get in the cross.....fire)

[Refuzn-To-Grow-Up]

To Dollytrolly:

 

When I started this thread, I had no idea that it would end up where it has. Talk about being "knocked off the rails."

 

Your personal school day experience adds some interesting "history" to this thread. Your shop teacher sounded like quite the "teacher." He challenged his students intellectually (building and understanding the chronograph), And, then he challenged his student's shop skills by building a rifle, which involved machining, assembly and woodworking skills. He wisely picked a project that would keep the kids interested in it! Most importantly, he taught the concept of:

 

R E S P O N S I B I L I T Y to his students.

 

Apparently shop classes are a thing of the past. So sad.

 

I am jealous of your shop class experience and you project. BTW - don't bring your rifle to Kali. As a home built firearm, you will have to apply to DOJ for a serial number (if that law has passed). If you do not, then you are a criminal!

 

I hope to meet you on the road someday. Safe travels.

 

With each passing day, I am growing older, but I am refusing to grow up!

[Dollytrolley]

To Dollytrolly:

 

When I started this thread, I had no idea that it would end up where it has. Talk about being "knocked off the rails."

 

Your personal school day experience adds some interesting "history" to this thread. Your shop teacher sounded like quite the "teacher." He challenged his students intellectually (building and understanding the chronograph), And, then he challenged his student's shop skills by building a rifle, which involved machining, assembly and woodworking skills. He wisely picked a project that would keep the kids interested in it! Most importantly, he taught the concept of:

 

R E S P O N S I B I L I T Y to his students.

 

Apparently shop classes are a thing of the past. So sad.

 

I am jealous of your shop class experience and you project. BTW - don't bring your rifle to Kali. As a home built firearm, you will have to apply to DOJ for a serial number (if that law has passed). If you do not, then you are a criminal!

 

I hope to meet you on the road someday. Safe travels.

 

With each passing day, I am growing older, but I am refusing to grow up!

 

Refuzn.....

 

You bring some good point to the "campfire" here......

 

Sometimes I wonder why I did not turn out better considering the amazing amount of teaching and monitoring showered upon me in my mis-spent youth......

 

As I recall at the start of the thread you mentioned that you had no intent to debate gun-control politics and obviously that is a never-ending subject so best let younger studs carry that torch.......maybe.

 

Maybe this comment could be filed in the box titled......"before-gun-control".

 

Several of my "teachers" as a kid had experienced "adverse-gun-control" .....some teachers had Germans shoot at them and some had Japanese shoot at them and a couple had Germans and then Japanese shoot at them........three had been hit......so you might think of these folks as experts regarding guns......

 

As I recall everyone of these men did not travel around carrying guns even they owned guns........all passed away without being killed by guns.

 

Most WWII Vets as a whole were pretty content to not considering shooting at other folks after having actually shooting at humans or being shot by other humans.

 

My senior year in high school I was determined to become very rich by working night and day at Oregon Carburetor Co. and the owner Bob Smith was happy to work me night and day tearing down and bright dipping truck loads of old carburetors. Rumor had it that Mr Smith was Peril Harbor Vet but it was a subject that he really did not care to chat about. Part of running the company involved picking up carburetor cores from pretty tough industrial areas in big cities on the west coast. Mr Smith was a very hard worker and at the end of some weeks he had a very pronounced-limp but I did not know the cause of the limp. Late one winter day in a tough area of Oakland the core truck had a flat tire so Mr. Smith got out to change the tire but just as he mounted the spare a couple of punks jumped him and kicked him pretty hard in the ribs going after his wallet.......bad move punks........when they kicked Mr Smith his right "wooden-shop-peg-leg" became unhitched and Mr. Smith then had is turn "kicking" these punks and his "kicks" were very hard indeed......worse than a baseball bat..... Mr. Smith put his leg back on and tightened the lug nuts and drove off......he said when he drove off the punks were still napping.

 

Mr Smiths wife wanted him to carry a gun on his trips to the tough locations but he would smile and say oh heck I been in tough locations before and I just keep a......."leg-up-on-the-punks".......

 

Being wacked by the big ankle steel pin and straps of that shop-leg would be worse than being shot.....I wonder if the punks ever woke up.

 

It seems odd that the more some of these "teachers" were being shot at or shooting at other folks the less they tended to carry guns when they did finally get back home.

 

History is will very likely not be kind to the results obtained by the new California gun laws but it seems from the comments on this thread that some responsible gun owners will stay away from California.........pretty sure the scumbags will just steal more guns to keep the new laws being hatched......

 

Drive on...........(honey, do I need a concealed-carry-permit for my wood......leg?)

[Refuzn-To-Grow-Up]

Dollytrolly: Should our paths ever cross, and I hope that they do, I would thoroughly enjoy sending (from your shop project) a few 30-06 rounds down range.

[spindrift]

I wish I had more of these experiences when I was a yute. This is a very special place.

[whj469]

This topic really rings then out. I am a Texan and I have had a CDL, now called license to carry because we are permitted

open carry, for more then 20 years. I will continue to travel to and from CA. It is by far the nicest of all states, even Alaska and HI.

There is more to see and do in CA then any other state, by far. Some of my best friends live and work in CA and as noted above

something is bringing people to CA. I used to think that people who made statements like "the fruits and nuts are in CA" or that

"they would never go there" were said by people who had never been there!

[Morelli]

This thread saddens me and what it has turned into. Let first say, please excuse my English, it's not my first language.

 

Does California has its problems, no doubt. SO DOES every other state !! Heck, this country as a whole is going down the tubes ! California as a state (forget the people running it), has lots to offer as a place to visit.

 

Yes, those of us old enough know all the various shop classes doing great things and various trade schools, those are gone everywhere. We are the only ones to blame for it. Gun laws going crazy everywhere, president and his stupid ideas, who is to blame, we are ! This is the end result of greed, people following people blindly and want to get rich quick ! Suck it up and do something about vs what is being said here. I could have packed my bags a long time back and left, I did not and still believe to this day that we still turn it around and do something about it.

 

Society today is what we (and I will say that in a loosely term, I mean the population as whole) made it into. Kids getting hurt playing so we have to file lawsuits (creating a huge place for lawyers) because parents have to have others watch theirs kids to a standard they do not do. Some dies in a car crash, lawsuits filed, cars have to a ton of safety devices for the stupid drivers and drunks to survive. Some idiots cuts off their fingers by miss using a saw, we have to have guards on everything. So on and so on !!

 

Gun laws today are what they are because of the various individuals in our country that believe flowers and peace solves all, yet they want to be protected. They never lived in a non-free country and have no clue what it means to dodge bullets and be happy you are NOT leaking !

 

My kids are thought well around firearms and many other things. No one else besides my wife and I raised our kids. They went with us everywhere, no baby sitters, etc. When they got hurt playing, we did not sue anyone. My daughter at 12 could handle a 12 gauge shut gun like a pro. My son, likes guns, has a few for collecting, never cares to shot them. Our kids are thought to think things through and be responsible for your actions ! If something is defective and they get hurt, we return it and contact the company about it. To date, that has worked extremely well.

 

Do I blame California for what has happened or happening, NO. I blame the idiots that are running and fight to try and correct it ! I have lived in other countries where we as people have no rights. Do I believe in all the laws this country has .... NO. A vast majority are crap and worthless. Do I live my life around all those laws .... NO. Do I drive around with firearms in my vehicles ..... Maybe. Do I answer all the questions at check points ..... You will never know. Do I have problems with officers questioning me ..... NO. Are the new gun laws going to stop me ..... Hell NO.

 

I will be very honest, my livelyhood is based on tourist money, people do not stop at our place and buy goods, I cannot afford to send my kids to school and care for my family ! My business is regulated to death thanks to California BS and I make the best of it and I along with many others fight it. We won a lot of battles and lost a few.

 

So with that said, please stop bashing the state, bash the idiots that run it, help us get rid of them, and come by to visit ! We welcome you with open arms and a cold glass of beer and/or wine !

[RV_]

I wrote an article about security in RV travels and post it from time to time here, it includes simple tactical considerations in an RV, whether armed or not.

 

I choose not to carry but have guns, and keep one in my car when a threat is possible. Perhaps it is because I was armed daily in the performance of my Combat Arms duty for all but 8 years of my 27 years active duty in the USAF. I was a medic, scrub tech, and then cross trained into Medical Lab Technology until I found a better way to draw blood with no AIDS risk - the M-16 and spent the next almost 20 years teaching hand, shoulder, and vehicle/tripod mounted weapons.

 

You see I always carry the most powerful weapon available right between my ears. So do all of you reading this. I don't tell anyone they should carry, or shouldn't carry. Here is my treatise for RV security armed and unarmed: http://home.earthlink.net/~derekgore/rvroadiervfulltimingwhatisitreallylike/id85.html

The goal of self and family defense is to survive the encounter. Sometimes folks could have walked away, and should have. Training kicks in if you have it. Armed or not.

[Ronbo]

I have reason to visit California I can't avoid. She is 82 years young. I have to monitor her property and my wife would leave me I we didn't visit her mother. After January my toys will be mush better secured as well as my ammo. I will have to put a lot of thought into how I want to do it. It will need to be compliant with the federal laws on interstate transportation as the only time I will be subject to stop with the RV will be when I am entering and leaving the state. My route will be modified and I will no longer travel the length of California but will enter and go to my destination where I will park the RV. That will usually be less than a 3 hr trip.

[Broncohauler]

??

???

[noteven]

We found the best cure for "visiting CA stress" was to ride our bikes about San Diego County or the Santa Monica hills pleasantly lost half the time.

[RV_]

Or stay at the SKP Co Ops in Jojoba in avocado grove country, or Coarsegold and Park Sierra as a close enough campground for visiting Yosemite. Beautiful countryside. I loved camping at the Stockton Army Depot Famcamp surrounded by giant Eucalyptus trees scenting the air. We take some of the berries/fruit and use it as our truck air freshener for several days after leaving. The wine country tours around Napa, Sonoma, and Mendocino compare favorably with the tours of wineries in France and Germany.

[les_garten]

The problem with California...

 

is it's full of Californians

[Jemstone]

There are two Californias. South of Santa Rosa lies the California being discussed here. North of Santa Rosa is another state oriented on fishing, logging and agriculture. While the same laws apply everywhere in the state, folks in the north of California seem to ignore the sillier laws and go about their business as they always have. Avoid the big California cities but don't avoid the redwoods, miles of beautiful coast, and the national parks.

 

I've never felt a need to carry while hiking the redwoods or the northern coast. It is a fact that, no matter how many folks are visiting a park, once you get a half mile down a trail there is often no one around. In a lifetime of roaming the Arizona mountains and deserts I have only pulled my pistol once and that was due to an angry bull bovine preparing to charge me. Once the weapon was out and I was still, lining up my shot, I went off the bull's radar. Not seeing any more movement he quit the aggressive behavior and wandered off. That's it for the only armed encounter of my life (not counting 2 years in the US Army Infantry).

[RV_]

Lots of Californians are great folk. Everyone can choose to stay away, I go where I choose. I too had a mother in California, a state I never lived in as she moved there after I was grown and in the military. I have also read that some here are terrified of crossing any border. Visiting Canada was always worth the trip. For security it means waiting for the security process.

 

Funny but living all over the world I never felt that locals were in need of my judgment. But I have met some of my countrymen who if a furriner here in the USA said we were stupid because we did not speak a language other than English here on our soil, think nothing of saying that to and about folks who speak another language in their country. No biggie, I just learn the language as well as I can, and enjoy the food and beverages.

 

I like Silicon Valley and the Santa Clara area, as well as Fremont and their Tesla factory. The coastline is second to none. Many of our greatest military organizations have bases and HQs there like the Seal Team HQ in the Coronado peninsula, the Marines and Camp Pendleton, as well as Vandenberg AFB:

 

"Vandenberg Air Force Base (IATA: VBG, ICAO: KVBG, FAA LID: VBG) is a United States Air Force Base 9.2 miles (14.8 km) northwest of Lompoc, California. It is under the jurisdiction of the 30th Space Wing, Air Force Space Command (AFSPC).

 

Vandenberg AFB is a Department of Defense space and missile testing base, with a mission of placing satellites into polar orbit from the West Coast using expendable boosters (Pegasus, Taurus, Minotaur, Atlas V, Delta IV and SpaceX's Falcon 9). Wing personnel also support the Service's LGM-30G Minuteman III Intercontinental Ballistic Missile Force Development Evaluation program.

 

In addition to its military mission, the base also leases launch pad facilities to SpaceX (SLC-4E), as well as 100 acres (40 ha) leased to the California Spaceport in 1995."

 

And then there is the US Navy and San Diego/Coronado bases everywhere.

 

The Central Valley grows a large part of our food baskets.

 

Touring the Wineries in Napa Sonoma and Mendocino. Well more than I care to post here. Here is more to scroll through:

 

https://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/North_America/United_States_of_America/California/Things_To_Do-California-TG-C-1.html

 

Mom died so no real pressing reason to visit now, but we are so glad we went there first for every year of our fulltiming to visit her while she still knew who we were.

 

I am not defending any state or position. However all overgeneralizations are false, including this one.

[CrazyCooter]

I was born and raised in CA currently living in the "Far North", or State of Jefferson.....hopefully soon to be taking CA's place as the 50th state!

 

Things are definitely changing here as people from the south are migrating north to escape the problems down there. They don't realize that they bring their Starbucks, stripmalls, and socially retarded indoctrinated children...the problems follow them! I don't know why the politicians want to reduce us to a third world country and the majority of voters seem to be on board!

 

I just can't believe the things we are seeing in America right now......I'm still young at 43 years old.....I can't imagine how the older generations feel!

 

Circling the toilet bowl just waiting for the right opportunity to go down to pipe......

[Dollytrolley]

I was born and raised in CA currently living in the "Far North", or State of Jefferson.....hopefully soon to be taking CA's place as the 50th state!

 

Things are definitely changing here as people from the south are migrating north to escape the problems down there. They don't realize that they bring their Starbucks, stripmalls, and socially retarded indoctrinated children...the problems follow them! I don't know why the politicians want to reduce us to a third world country and the majority of voters seem to be on board!

 

I just can't believe the things we are seeing in America right now......I'm still young at 43 years old.....I can't imagine how the older generations feel!

 

Circling the toilet bowl just waiting for the right opportunity to go down to pipe......

Crazy.... poor boy... stand back keep both hands in sight... do not make any sudden moves......

 

You obviously are in need of a Magnum size Dr Pepper...ice cold.

 

Grumps used to say...."you'll know when it's time to check out....next thing you know truck will have .....power steering .....and then .....anyone will be a truck driver"?

 

Drive on......(Don't think too much....)

[CrazyCooter]

Crazy.... poor boy... stand back keep both hands in sight... do not make any sudden moves......

 

You obviously are in need of a Magnum size Dr Pepper...ice cold.

 

Grumps used to say...."you'll know when it's time to check out....next thing you know truck will have .....power steering .....and then .....anyone will be a truck driver"

 

Drive on......(Don't think too much....)

 

Lol!

 

Dr. Pepper? They just legalized MJ, so it's puff, puff, pass.......

[duraduk]

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/pdf/cfl2016.pdf

 

Summary of Calif. Gun Laws issued by the "State".

[VegasFlyer]

With our new White House Administration and the Republican majority, hopefully the Nattional Comcealed Carry will reach fruition soon.

 

California has been messed up in the way of the gun for many years, even when it comes to law enforcement officers.

 

About 15 years ago, while working for a Sheriff's Office in Oregon, I was tasked to go to San Francisco to extradite two guys wanted for multiple homicides. When we called the jail that was housing the guys and told them that we would be driving down to pick the fine gentlemen up, they reminded us that nobody, other than local, state and federal law enforcement could possess a handgun in San Francisco.

 

I won't go into detail as to what we did, but suffice it to say that we felt secure for the entire trip.

[Refuzn-To-Grow-Up]

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/pdf/cfl2016.pdf

 

Summary of Calif. Gun Laws issued by the "State".

 

WELL DONE! Everyone who enters the State of California should read and keep a copy of this document in their RV.

 

For those of you who think that being nice and polite to a California LEO (no offense to any LEO's on the forum) will cause him to ignore a violation of a California firearms law, I have ocean front property in Arizona that I would like to sell you. You will be arrested, booked, jailed and hopefully you can bond out. The District Attorney's Office will file a criminal (misdemeanor or felony) complaint against you. Your attorney may ultimately get the case dismissed on a 4th Amendment violation. Here is a thought. You can buy quite a few tankfuls of diesel fuel for what you will spend on a criminal defense attorney.

 

Additional Information: A conviction of misdemeanor domestic violence imposes a LIFE TIME BAN on firearm ownership and, it is RETROACTIVE. See the federal law named the Lautenberg Amendment. This ludicrous federal law destroyed many LEO and military careers . . . due to its retroactivity. California's ten year ban, for DV conviction, is moot because federal law imposes a lifetime ban.

 

Safe Travels!

[Refuzn-To-Grow-Up]

About 15 years ago, while working for a Sheriff's Office in Oregon, I was tasked to go to San Francisco to extradite two guys wanted for multiple homicides. When we called the jail that was housing the guys and told them that we would be driving down to pick the fine gentlemen up, they reminded us that nobody, other than local, state and federal law enforcement could possess a handgun in San Francisco.

 

Vegas: I am 100% confident that Frisco's gun laws made everyone (you LEO's and the general public) much safer when you picked up those two misguided boys! [LMAO]