Jimalberta Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 My RV pulls my truck. There is no question of which vehicle is controlling the situation. Thought I would just throw that out there. That said...if my truck decided to go seriously out of whack I would have my hands full for a while. <p>....JIM and LINDA......2001 American Eagle 40 '.towing a GMC Sierra 1500 4X4 with RZR in the rear. 1999 JEEP Cherokee that we tow as well. IT IS A CONTENTED MAN WHO CAN APPRECIATE THE SCENERY ALONG A DETOUR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBH Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 The bottom line is that the safest lash-up is one where the tow vehicle weighs as much or more than the trailer. The more you deviate toward trailer weight the less safe you are. Simple physics. All the rest is just rationalization and obfuscation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaywardWaylander Posted April 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 The bottom line is that the safest lash-up is one where the tow vehicle weighs as much or more than the trailer. The more you deviate toward trailer weight the less safe you are. Simple physics. All the rest is just rationalization and obfuscation. This makes no sense to me. Gas tankers hold what, 9000 gallons? At 7.5 pounds per gallon, that's 67,500 pounds. Where can you get a tow vehicle that weighs that much? Are all gas tanker setups unsafe, then? It seems a bit unrealistic to me to expect anyone who wants to tow a trailer or 5th wheel RV to obtain a tow vehicle that weighs just as much. That would mean someone who buys an 8000 pound trailer should get an F350/450 to match its weight to tow it. It seems to me that if this were a realistic expectation, there would be a whole lot less trailer RVs out on the road. "A good engineer is always a wee bit conservative, at least on paper." -Scotty, "Star Trek: The Next Generation: Relics" Blog: Wayward Waylander | Twitter: @WaywardWaylandr | Instagram: WaywardWaylander | Google+: Wayward Waylander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Gasoline weighs just over 6#/US gallon, and tankers are subject to weight laws, generally 80,000 gross weight in the USA. Also, assuming the normal axle arrangement of tandem axles on tractor and trailer, loaded weights will be 12k on the steer, with 34k on each tandem. Let's not forget that big trucks use air brakes which have less components to fail, and are designed such that if they do fail, the brakes are applied. That means if you loose air to the trailer, you're stopping. KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmac28 Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 FYI Ready Reference Files Weight of One Gallon (U.S.) of Water, Gasoline, Ethanol and Diesel 1 gallon of water equals 8.33 lbs. 1 gallon of gasoline equals 5.8 to 6.5 lbs. 1 gallon of ethanol equals 6.59 lbs. 1 gallon of diesel fuel equals 7.25 to 7.5 lbs. Source: U.S. Dept. of Energy. Verified by: JT, 9/98 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjhunter01 Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 The bigger the truck the bigger the bucks. You may get a good deal on a used HDT, but that is the end of any savings as far as a truck goes. Pull into a freightliner shop, service charges run $120/hour, and parts are very expensive. Time is the enemy of vehicles and a HDT is no different. Sitting around for long periods is not good and problems will show up in the form of rusted components, dried out seals, and settled fluid impurities. As far as vehicle mass vs trailer is over kill, it's like using a cannon to deer hunt. There are videos of semis pulling million pound transformers across country or tow motors pulling hundred thousand pound planes. There was even a GM commercial of a truck pulling a 747 once. It's all about the axle rating which includes brake system, (even air brake systems use shoes). Any system can and will fail eventually, all systems need to be checked and maintained. Any driver has stories of brake failures, but that is a weak case for a HDT. Some people just want a HDT which is also great, but it can't be justified based on savings. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Some people just want a HDT which is also great, but it can't be justified based on savings. Greg True. But in my eyes, it can be justified in safety. As for costs, in my experience, buying the HDT allowed me to downsize my daily driver to a 1/2 ton, so I have savings every day, not just when we travel. My maintenance costs on the HDT are roughly the same per mile as my previous F-350s. But now I put far fewer miles on the big truck. HDT's are not for everyone. KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjhunter01 Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 True. But in my eyes, it can be justified in safety. Since we both ride motorcycles, I don't buy the safety concern. A lot of truck drivers die every year in truck accidents. Safety is an attitude, not to be relaxed by using bigger equipment. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 Since we both ride motorcycles, I don't buy the safety concern. A lot of truck drivers die every year in truck accidents. Safety is an attitude, not to be relaxed by using bigger equipment. Greg I like big brakes on my motorcycles, as well as my trucks. Just as I wouldn't ride a bike with wimpy brakes, I won't hitch to a 20k+ trailer without enough braking power to get stopped when something goes wrong. I also wear a helmet and full safety gear on the bikes, but not in the truck. KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 On not justifiable on cost? My dually was expensive as a daily commute. It went in shop a lot more than I thought it should. All emissions related but that stops them. Smart is cheap to operate. That is a huge savings. How expensive this Freightliner becomes is a guess. I am very new to this. This is what is sweet. I came down that same stretch of I-10 that I cleared seat with the dually. I didn't even recognize it with the HDT. 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray.service Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 True. But in my eyes, it can be justified in safety. As for costs, in my experience, buying the HDT allowed me to downsize my daily driver to a 1/2 ton, so I have savings every day, not just when we travel. My maintenance costs on the HDT are roughly the same per mile as my previous F-350s. But now I put far fewer miles on the big truck. HDT's are not for everyone. x2 BTW have you been to the local Chevy, Ford, Ram dealer lately. Labor rates and parts IMHO are at least if not greater than for a HDT. Ray & Deb - Shelbi the Aussie & Lexington the cat2004 Volvo 630 500HP ISX "Bertha D" - 10 Speed-MaxBrake -ET hitch.SOLD2009 Designer 35RLSA SOLDFulltiming since '07 - stopped 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjhunter01 Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 x2 BTW have you been to the local Chevy, Ford, Ram dealer lately. Labor rates and parts IMHO are at least if not greater than for a HDT. At the risk of beating a dead horse, this needs response. I have a 06 chevy dually and my son runs a 05 Freightliner single as a owner/operator. In the last 2 years both trucks needed radiators replaced. Chevy radiator cost $300 and took me 3 hours to replace. Freightliner radiator cost $1200 and took 2 of us 6 hours to replace. Freightliner needed new AC hoses which son bought but didn't have time to install, so off to Freightliner dealer and $1500 labor cost to install. Chevy dealer labor rate is $80/hr and Freightliner is $120/hr. There are benefits to running a HDT vs a dually, but cost is not one of them no matter how you look at the picture. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark and Dale Bruss Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Compare your maintenance dollars the second 500,000 miles. Oh, I don't think you'll get the first 500,000 miles on a pickup. Please click for Emails instead of PM Mark & DaleJoey - 2016 Bounder 33C Tige - 2006 40' Travel SupremeSparky III - 2021 Mustang Mach-e, off the the Road since 2019 Useful HDT Truck, Trailer, and Full-timing Info atwww.dmbruss.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjhunter01 Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Freightliner has 1,000,000 miles on it and spent $12k maintenance last year. Chevy has 300,000 miles on it and only changed oil last year for $60. Son sold his 02 Chevy with 500,000 miles on it to buy the freightliner for business. His maintenance/operating cost went up by 4X, but not his profit, so far anyways!! Now that I am retired, I only put 10k miles a year on the Chevy, should be good for 200,000 additional miles or 20 years. For $12k, I could drop a new Duramax and Allison in the Chevy. I would get a new Chevy if not for the DEF emissions I don't want to deal with. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 You comparing running one commerical and we might put 10k in 10 years on ours. Our trucks are not daily commute either. So your cost comparison not accurate. 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjhunter01 Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 I ran my dually 3 years commercial for 210k miles, 20k steel coils all over midwest and east coast. The cost comparison is actual and I kept detailed records on every expense. My profit line beat the Freightliner profit every year, even though his gross was higher. I can show in every category that the PU cost is much less for purchase price, maintenance, fuel cost, and insurance over the HDT. There is no debate in a PU cost vs a HDT, the PU is less cost every time. That being said, sleeping in a sleeper cab is priceless compared to a PU back seat, the view is better and just the thrill of riding in a big truck is fun. But saving $$, no way!! Yes, the PU can be a daily driver, probably not with a HDT, therefor figure additional expense for a toad. Sorry for the ranting, I am done, just need to be upfront, some people might make major decisions based on what they read here. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollytrolley Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 I ran my dually 3 years commercial for 210k miles, 20k steel coils all over midwest and east coast. The cost comparison is actual and I kept detailed records on every expense. My profit line beat the Freightliner profit every year, even though his gross was higher. I can show in every category that the PU cost is much less for purchase price, maintenance, fuel cost, and insurance over the HDT. There is no debate in a PU cost vs a HDT, the PU is less cost every time. That being said, sleeping in a sleeper cab is priceless compared to a PU back seat, the view is better and just the thrill of riding in a big truck is fun. But saving $$, no way!! Yes, the PU can be a daily driver, probably not with a HDT, therefor figure additional expense for a toad. Sorry for the ranting, I am done, just need to be upfront, some people might make major decisions based on what they read here. Greg Wow.....WalMart....Swift....JB Hunt have NO idea how much money they are losing with sticking with those Thousands of HDT units when they could cutCosts and make $$$$ with a Duramax fleet......humm imagine how many Duramax's it will take to keep all of the Wally super centers stocked..... Your right this horse is dead..... Drive on.....(how many Duramax injectors have you replaced???) 97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N TX Dave Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 My FW GVWR is the dry pin weight of 1,975 lbs plus the 12,000 lbs for the two 6,000 lbs axles for a GVWR of 13,975. In your case your pin weight is 2,885 and you must have two 7,000 lbs axles for a GVWR of 16,885 (2885+7000+7000). Now how the figure out the dry weight I don't really know but every time I have checked out the GVWR it is the dry pin weight plus the weight the axles can carry. Dave Watkins Highland Village, TX 2014 F-350 Dually Open Range 349RLR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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