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I don't think we are an exception to the rule.

 

You're not. My rig is like that as well (30a rig). Multiple CB's for outlets and there isn't much rhyme or reason on the locations. Ie. 1 outlet in the bedroom, 2 in the living room.. one on the near side and one on the far side, but there is another in the middle that's on a different CB. :huh:

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You all are the experts as I have only my own limited experience and am not an engineer, only a tech. But I would point out that when you have a power cord rated for 30A and a main power circuit breaker of 30a rating, no matter how many circuit breakers you add the maximum current that you can use is still only 30a. Now if you use 10 - 13A for an air conditioner, and another 10A or so for the converter, lights, 12V loads, and whatever else you happen to have in the RV, there is still no more than 10a left and adding more breakers will not allow the use of any more power and will just waste equipment. That is a basic law of physics. Someone explain to me the purpose of adding all of these separate circuits? If you connect a total of more than 30a of total draw, assuming that the RV is using 10a, then you won't be able to use two different appliances which each draw 12A, even if you have each one on a separate 20a circuit breaker.

 

My engineer friend should also realize that no circuit breaker will operate under 100% of rated load for hours on end. In reality they open if the constant load gets to be into the 80/90% of rating so your 30a RV can only use a continuous current draw of about 28a or so. Of course, this thread was about voltage drop and not maximum current ratings. The poster needs to determine how his RV is wired as he probably doesn't care how yours or mine is wired. :P

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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As the warden said in "Cool Hand Luke" I think "what we have here is a failure to communitcate." I think it is due to the way it is worded and not to lack of knowledge. I know Kirk knows what he is talking about but he intially worded it as there is only one breaker that services the all the outlets. That is what led to my question. In my brain I read this as only 1/one breaker for the entire trailer. I think the way I would have put it there is only 1 mainbreaker that is in the panel that feeds the other branch circuits. It is clearer in his posts #24 & #25 :) in the latter part. I could see us all saying the same thing but was not totally clear due to either wording on the front end (him) or comprehension on the back end (me) or possibly just two squirrelly old dudes at each end. :lol:

 

Here I go causing problems again like I did in the other topics thread. I think I really need one of the face deallies that just flat out says I'm sorry :wacko: . It would sure save me a lot of typing and explaining. I could even put it first before I start typing.

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Yep, the OP probably doesn't care how our RV's are wired. The conversation (posts if you prefer), I believe, helps to show that it is good to know which outlets are on which CB & if the outlets are on more than one CB.

 

About one or two CB's feeding the outlets. I just counted up the total number of outlets in my 29' class A. There are 10 general purpose outlets. I didn't count things like the microwave or fridge outlets. I suppose one could wire all 10 outlets on a single CB, but that is a lot of outlets to put in one wire string. If I was to design a system and was putting in 10 outlets it would seem logical to split the 10 outlets into 5 & 5 or 6 & 4, just to keep from having so many connections on one string of wire.

 

Additionally having the living area outlets on one CB and the bathroom on another CB would help reduce the possibility of someone using a space heater and hair dryer on the same CB. Of course if the water heater is on AC and heating water, then you use the space heater, and a hair dryer all at the same time you will probably pop the 30amp CB. Just like Kirk said, you can only use so many things at the same time on 30amp service.

Al & Sharon
2006 Winnebago Journey 36G 
2020 Chevy Colorado Toad
San Antonio, TX

http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/

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Kirk, you're on the right track for sure and we basically agree, for the help of those non techs and non engineers however, I will offer a few basic engineering guidelines.

 

As a power distribution engineer the way I was taught and the way the NEC approached the sizing of secondary low voltage 120/240 VAC distribution was as follows:

 

1) FIRST you compute the load and "maxmum continuous load"

2) SECOND you size the conductors such that the maximum continuous load is not greater then 80% of the conductors rated ampacity. For example if the conductor was rated for 20 amps, the maximum continuous current allowable by design would be 0.8 x 20 = 16 amps.

3) THIRD you size the overcurrent protection device (circuit breaker or fuse) to match the conductors rated ampacity. IE if the conductor is rated for 20 amps you use a 20 amp breaker

 

THEREFORE in an RV fed by a 30 amp rated wire and a 30 amp rated plug and receptacle, IF I DESIGNED THE SYSTEM I WOULDNT WANT OVER 80% OR 24 AMPS OF CONTINUOUS CURRENT FLOW. Note however, the technical definition of "continuous current" comes into play and still the RV parks pedestal and its circuit breaker will still permit the flow of 30 amps max prior to the breaker tripping out. Its just that by design when computing loads and performing initial calculations you limit the max "continuous current" to 80% of the conductors ampacity. The conductors however, are still adequately protected (30 amp wire on 30 amp breaker) but the initial design goal when making calculations is to not go over 80% of ampacity for "continuous current" AT LEAST THATS HOW IT WAS UNDER THE NEC AND WHEN I WAS A DESIGN ENGINEER IT MAY HAVE CHANGED BY NOW LOL

 

Sooooooooo to your point, its indeed true and your are certainly correct, that regardless if you had one branch circuit or ten in the RV panel you still cant draw more then 30 amps total before the breaker would trip.

 

 

 

Kirk asks "Someone explain to me the purpose of adding all of these separate circuits?" GREAT QUESTION, I HOPE THIS ANSWERS IT FOR YOU

 

 

HOWEVER safety and design and good engineering practice also requires you can have only x number of outlets on a convenience outlet branch circuit PLUS there shouldn't ever be more then 80% of the conductors ampacity exceeded.

 

FINALLY LOL That's why and my personal experience in owning plus being a used RV dealer my experience has shown unless its a very small RV, ITS UNUSUAL FOR A 30 AMP RV TO HAVE ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL ITS CONVENIENCE OUTLETS ON ONLY ONE CIRCUIT. Much more typical is for at least one circuit to be GFCI protected often by a GFCI in the bath which often feeds off its load side a downstream also GFCI protected outlet in the kitchen sink area, PLUS at least one additional branch circuit for other non GFCI outlets scattered throughout the RV. ALSO there can typically be another dedicated branch circuit for the AC if so equipped, and in some cases Ive seen a circuit for the microwave.

 

Its also good engineering practice and design to have more then one branch circuit in an RV so the bath and kitchen be on the GFCI protected circuit PLUS at least one more circuit for a cube heater or the microwave or TV etc etc . The more circuits the less load on any one circuit especially if a microwave or heater are in use. It (more then only one circuit for the entire RV) lessens the chance of the 80% rule being in jeopardy. If there were but one circuit for all the receptacles you can see how a heater ormicrowave maxes out the capacity. THATS WHY ITS SOUND ENGINEERING PRACTICE THERE SHOULD BE MORE THEN ONE CIRCUIT FOR ALL THE RV OUTLETS that STILL DOES NOT allow more then the 30 amp total capacity to be exceeded, its still better engineering design to split loads over at least two versus only I circuit where a microwave or heater may be in use. AGAIN IM NOTTTTTTTT TALKING ABOUT A SMALL RV HERE

 

PS why have all those separate circuits in your home???? Its the same thing in an RV only on a smaller scale, just as a home may have 10 receptacle circuits, why not at least two in an RV so a heater or microwave or kitchen and bath GFCI protected load isn't on the same circuit as all the other outlets scattered about??? I SEE AT LEAST ONE SEPARATE (from kitchen and bath GFCI) RV CIRCUIT as safer and better engineering but that's just how I was trained and from what I learned in attending all those NEC seminars and from experience. NO WARRANTY ITS CORRECT, JUST MY TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE SPEAKING

 

PS Two, you are also correct about how the "Thermal" portion of a "Thermal Magnetic" Circuit Breaker operates: The "Thermal" protection portion is for long term continuous loads (one reason not to exceed 80% rule) while the "magnetic" portion is for high current surge protection.

 

 

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THATS THE PURPOSE OF ADDING THOSE SEPARATE CIRCUITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

DISCLAIMER (Engineers love these lol) this may or may not be true for allllllllllllllll 30 amp RV's, perhaps there are smaller units that indeed have but one branch circuit for alllllllllllll receptacles. I'm ONLY saying in all my years as an RV dealer and RV user, the 30 amp units I owned or sold (mostly Class A and Class C 30 amp units) had at least two circuits for the outlets BUT I DIDNT OWN ANY REAL SMALL UNITS AND MAYBE THE ORIGINAL POSTED INDEED HAS BUT ONE CIRCUIT FOR ALL HIS RECEPTACLES???

 

John T NOT an expert or RV design engineer, but a long retired Electrical Power Distribution Design Engineer and RV owner and dealer since the early seventies NO WARRANTY LOL this may be all incorrect, I'm just here to help the best I can and believe this is all correct or else I wouldnt be posting it

 

God Bless and best wishes to all here and thanks for all the help you provide, I truly appreciate all the help given me here, especially from Kirk and Stanley and Yarome and Jack, gentlemen indeed, which I try to repay anytime I can

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IMO, you guys are making this much more complicated than the OP actual problem.

 

He plugged in a small heater and the power dropped 8 or 9 volts. So, thinking he may have a bad heater, he plugged in another small heater and then a hair dryer, with the same results. However, running the fireplace (nothing more than another small heater) did not drop the voltage. That tells me he has a circuit issue, not a system issue.

 

I don't care if he has one branch circuit for outlets, two circuits, or ten. Whatever outlet he used to plug those heaters and hair dryer into has an integrity issue in that specific circuit somewhere. It's easy enough to figure out which circuit breaker this outlet is on, also which other outlets are on this circuit.

 

The problem could be a loose wire on one of the outlets, on the circuit breaker itself, or in a junction box if such was used. I would definitely start by checking the breaker and the outlets for that. It also could be very difficult to find as in a construction staple through a wire somewhere or damaged wire insulation. It's a new trailer so I would definitely think that the issue is construction related. It may not be very easy to find the problem.

Everybody wanna hear the truth, but everybody tell a lie.  Everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody want to die.  Albert King

 

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chirakawa, "IMO, you guys are making this much more complicated than the OP actual problem."

 

EXACTLY RIGHT (Its just us old sparkies enjoy this sort of thing and helping others and answering related questions lol)

 

The branch circuit which exhibits an excessive voltage drop (V = I x R) when a high current load is applied IS THE PROBLEM such as a loose/burned/carboned resistive connection, which is indeed easy to diagnose. And that's true regardless if his RV has one or ten branch circuits. You win ten silver dollars lol

 

John T

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Wow! This has turned into quite an interesting thread.

 

Going to list specifically what I have and what I know, and maybe there will be an answer in there somewhere.

 

30 amp service

Surgeguard on pedestal, pedestal seems fine

This is a new problem with new rv, old rv was fine with park power

I have one gfi in the bathroom.

There are 10 other plugs in the rv

When I trip the test button on the gfi, all plugs are disabled

Safe to assume there is only one circuit for all the plugs, led by the bathroom gfi

 

If I plug anything that draws amperage (hair dryer, vacuum cleaner, space heater, etc) into any plug other than the bathroom gfi, I get a large voltage drop in the circuit, no matter which plug I measure at. If I plug into the bathroom gfi, there is no voltage drop down the line.

 

I do not in any way overload anything....what brought this to light was the fact that running a space heater ONLY, on that circuit, with nothing else of significance running anywhere in the rig, resulted in a significant and sudden voltage drop, from 119-120 down to 111-112, something that never happened on my previous 30amp single gfi trailer.

 

As far as breakers-I have a MAIN (30amp), REEFER(15), MICROWAVE(15), AC(15), CONV(15), and WATER HEATER(15).

 

I also have a bunch of flat blade fuses, 15 amp, for various things, to include AC, TV (plugged into trouble circuit) STEREO, BATH, APPLI,(whatever that is) and two 30 amp blade fuses with initials PSJ and HHT. I have no idea what they are.

 

Also, there are two flat blade fuses tucked away that are orange and show "40" (amps?) and I have no idea what they are for (not labeled)

 

All that said, maybe it will be a little easier for everyone to sort through. Spoke to a dealer today-they find it odd as well. And if I would like to make an apt for 6 weeks from now, they will be glad to accommodate me! :wacko:

 

Thanks all,,,I am betting you will have this solved for me.

 

And for the record, I am not uncomfortable pulling plugs etc; I just don't want to dig in and not find the answer and later have the mfg tell me I voided my warranty by messing around and I am SOL (especially if it is a design flaw)

Ya just can't RV without a hitch.....!

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I have one gfi in the bathroom.

There are 10 other plugs in the rv

When I trip the test button on the gfi, all plugs are disabled

Safe to assume there is only one circuit for all the plugs, led by the bathroom gfi

 

If I plug anything that draws amperage (hair dryer, vacuum cleaner, space heater, etc) into any plug other than the bathroom gfi, I get a large voltage drop in the circuit, no matter which plug I measure at. If I plug into the bathroom gfi, there is no voltage drop down the line.

 

 

 

 

I would start by pulling the GFI receptacle in the bathroom and check for damage/loose wires/etc. Of course, remove a/c power cord at pedestal first. Loose wires? Tighten them and see if it eliminates problem. Burned spot or other damage? Replace. Neither? I would probably just replace the receptacle. If that fixes the issue, take the old one back to dealer, they'll probably give you a new one. No way I would wait six weeks before doing this much on my own.

 

 

 

Good luck.

Everybody wanna hear the truth, but everybody tell a lie.  Everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody want to die.  Albert King

 

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MnTom,,,sounds good, but a thought just occurred to me. Plugging in a high draw appliance at the gfi seems ok, but is it? Do I need to check from the box to the outlet? I can't figure out which fuse (not breaker) goes to the gfi as it's not labeled. The reason I ask is that I have no way to check for voltage drop at the first outlet, being the gfi, when it's being used...unless the meter would show the drop on the downside of the circuit, which it doesn't....

Ya just can't RV without a hitch.....!

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Those fuses are all for the 12VDC circuits. All 120VAC is regulated by circuit breakers. You needn’t concern yourself with circuit breakers or with how many there are or with how many outlets are on the circuit in question. Those are interesting things having nothing to do with your problem.

 

What your problem is, is straightforward. Where the problem is, is the problem to be solved.

 

The problem is a high-resistance connection somewhere after the GFCI outlet. You know this because there is no voltage drop if you plug the heater into the GFCI. Code does not permit junction boxes or any hidden connections so the problem is a wire connection in one of outlets. If all other outlets produce a voltage drop the bad connection must either be at the output (“Load”) side of the first outlet in the circuit (the GFCI) or at the very next outlet in the chain. If you are not comfortable removing outlets to inspect them then you are done and must have a pro do it. I will say this: if that bad connection is dropping 10V and the load is 12A then 10X12= 120watts is being dissipated at the bad connection and that will make enough heat to conceivably cause a fire. I would not plug any high-current devices into any outlets until a repair has been performed.

 

Lew

http://traveldolphin.blogspot.com/
Bee&Scape, a 2015 Coleman 21Ft 3800Lb fully self contained TT and a Turbocharged, Intercooled, Direct Injected Ford Escape TV

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Fleetwood made many MH with 30AMP service that had a Energy Management system in them. Also many had 2 AC's. And Yes both OEM AC's can be running at the same time.

Mine built in September 1998 is one of them.

Breaker Box from top to bottom.

30AMP Main

20AMP AC Front

20AMP Microwave

20AMP Appliance

20AMP Portable Appliance

15AMP Bedroom

20AMP AC Rear

20AMP Inverter/Converter

 

On mine I have installed a second 30AMP breaker box since I replaced the front AC from a 13.5K to a 15K heat Pump and rear 11K AC to a 13.5K.

Full Time since Oct. 1999
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Wow! This has turned into quite an interesting thread.

 

Going to list specifically what I have and what I know, and maybe there will be an answer in there somewhere.

 

30 amp service

Surgeguard on pedestal, pedestal seems fine

This is a new problem with new rv, old rv was fine with park power

I have one gfi in the bathroom.

There are 10 other plugs in the rv

When I trip the test button on the gfi, all plugs are disabled

Safe to assume there is only one circuit for all the plugs, led by the bathroom gfi

 

If I plug anything that draws amperage (hair dryer, vacuum cleaner, space heater, etc) into any plug other than the bathroom gfi, I get a large voltage drop in the circuit, no matter which plug I measure at. If I plug into the bathroom gfi, there is no voltage drop down the line.

 

I do not in any way overload anything....what brought this to light was the fact that running a space heater ONLY, on that circuit, with nothing else of significance running anywhere in the rig, resulted in a significant and sudden voltage drop, from 119-120 down to 111-112, something that never happened on my previous 30amp single gfi trailer.

 

As far as breakers-I have a MAIN (30amp), REEFER(15), MICROWAVE(15), AC(15), CONV(15), and WATER HEATER(15).

 

I also have a bunch of flat blade fuses, 15 amp, for various things, to include AC, TV (plugged into trouble circuit) STEREO, BATH, APPLI,(whatever that is) and two 30 amp blade fuses with initials PSJ and HHT. I have no idea what they are.

 

Also, there are two flat blade fuses tucked away that are orange and show "40" (amps?) and I have no idea what they are for (not labeled)

 

All that said, maybe it will be a little easier for everyone to sort through. Spoke to a dealer today-they find it odd as well. And if I would like to make an apt for 6 weeks from now, they will be glad to accommodate me! :wacko:

 

Thanks all,,,I am betting you will have this solved for me.

 

And for the record, I am not uncomfortable pulling plugs etc; I just don't want to dig in and not find the answer and later have the mfg tell me I voided my warranty by messing around and I am SOL (especially if it is a design flaw)

Edit: Sorry, I see that some of what I wrote was covered earlier.

 

Yes, I think you are correct, all the outlets are behind the bathroom outlet. I would unplug from shore power and remove the bathroom outlet and see if there is a loose or bad connection there. If all looks good, and you want to continue trouble shooting, you could remove the outlet closest to the bathroom and check that.

 

From a trouble shooting perspective, I would probably plug the hair dryer into an outlet other than the bathroom outlet and then take a meter with leads and measure the voltage at all the wires attached to the bathroom outlet to start with. If a low voltage at the wires of bathroom outlet you have found the problem. If not the tech needs to decide where to check next.

 

However unless you have experience with electricity I don't think you should continue trouble shooting.

 

About your other questions:

 

I also have a bunch of flat blade fuses, 15 amp, for various things, to include AC, TV (plugged into trouble circuit) STEREO, BATH, APPLI,(whatever that is) and two 30 amp blade fuses with initials PSJ and HHT. I have no idea what they are.

 

Also, there are two flat blade fuses tucked away that are orange and show "40" (amps?) and I have no idea what they are for (not labeled)

 

The flat blade fuses are for your 12V circuits. You may have an owners manual which may help identify what they do. That is beyond the reason for this topic. If the owners manual doesn't help, starting a new topic with questions would get some good answers.

Al & Sharon
2006 Winnebago Journey 36G 
2020 Chevy Colorado Toad
San Antonio, TX

http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/

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With a problem like this, when you take the trailer to a dealer, push hard to have a tech take a meter and go in the trailer with you and show them the problem. Just describing the problem to the service writer stands a good chance of needing a repeat visit to get the problem fixed. Things many times get miss understood when the tech gets the work sheet and tries to figure out what the service writer wrote.

 

Also take your hair dryer & voltage meter when you pick up the trailer and be sure it is fixed before leaving the dealer.

Al & Sharon
2006 Winnebago Journey 36G 
2020 Chevy Colorado Toad
San Antonio, TX

http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/

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Duh! It was really dumb of me to not realize the blade fuses are 12v. Too focused on 120v.

 

I'll check the gfi and definitely wont plug anything with high amp draw into any plugs past the bathroom until it's resolved.

 

Probably better I just leave this to someone with a whole lot more knowledge than me.

 

Thanks everyone for the responses. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of collective knowledge amongst the Escapees members.

Ya just can't RV without a hitch.....!

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Tin slim:

 

You are now in information overload. You more than likely have the information you need to rectify the problem.

 

Stop------get away from the problem..for a couple days.

 

The solution will come to you and will make sense received from tech and engineers.

 

Techs and engineers have always had disagreements.

 

Only the guys in the field (you) can solve the problem.

 

Take a break!! It has always solved my problems

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Great information for us Tin, based on your new info we can narrow down the cause of your problem, although, its still basically what many of us, techs or engineers or lay persons alike, said all along.

 

1) "There are 10 other plugs in the rv

When I trip the test button on the gfi, all plugs are disabled

Safe to assume there is only one circuit for all the plugs, led by the bathroom gfi"

 

EXACTLY, that's a reasonable assumption assuming the GFCI itself is okay and wired correctly!!!!!!!!!!!!. Other circuits for AC or Microwave or Fireplace or Charger etc etc which are NON GFCI is good and typical in an RV.

 

 

2) "If I plug anything that draws amperage (hair dryer, vacuum cleaner, space heater, etc) into any plug other than the bathroom gfi, I get a large voltage drop in the circuit, no matter which plug I measure at. If I plug into the bathroom gfi, there is no voltage drop down the line."

 

 

HERERS MY DIAGNOSIS BASED ON YOUR LATEST INFORMATION

 

 

That branch circuit FROM the panel and circuit breaker TO the GFCI Line Side Input is okay.

 

 

HOWEVER

 

There must be a loosed/burned/carboned resistive connection (causes a V = I x R voltage drop) at EITHER the GFCI Load output terminal orrrrrrrrrrrrr at the downstream load side receptacles orrrrrrrrrrr if there are any splices in junction boxes but those should be in a readily accessible NON HIDDEN location, or the GCI itself has a problem, they do go bad. THATS WHAT MANY OF US ALREADY TOLD YOU

 

TROUBLESHOOTING PROCEDURE

 

I would remove the GFCI and inspect the terminal connections (especially on the LOAD side which feeds other downstream receptacles) looking for loose or burned or carbon indications and repair or replace as necessary.

I would one by one plug the heater into other downstream load side receptacles and check voltage at each.

Anytime you still see a voltage drop I would remove that particular receptacle and inspect it

NOTE a bad loose bladed receptacle can cause a voltage drop even if the wiring and terminal to it are okay,, but such would cause a drop ONLY at that receptacle and NOT others downstream.

Since the voltage drop is present at allllllllllllllll downstream receptacles, my first suspect is the bad connection is on the LOAD side of the GFCI itself, although it could be at a receptacle downstream.

If you start at the GFCI and then go to each receptacle one at a time looking for the voltage drop you should be able to find the problem, which I still think is a bad connection or a wiring fault as perhaps a wire got crimped or partly broken or bent sharply or a nail or staple pierced it?????????????? Any of those in addition to a loose terminal connection can cause a resistive voltage drop

 

NONE OF THE ABOVE IS HARD TO DO EVEN IF YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE Just remove and inspect the GFCI and start testing at other receptacles when a load is applied and remove and inspect and repair when you find the problem

 

CAUTION after you test for voltage drop when a load is applied TURN THE POWER OFF BEFORE REMOVING OR INSPECTING RECEPTACLES

 

I'm sure I missed something and if so hopefully the other fine gents here can add to or correct this, I'm long retired as an EE and rusty as an old nail lol. Ive never been to a forum where there are so many knowledgeable helpful people which Is why I enjoy being here and try my best to help when I can

 

Best wishes and God Bless all here

 

John T

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I am sure someone can explain this to me.

Don't bet on that one. Some folks can make the explanation of what happens when we turn on an RV light difficult to understand....... :rolleyes:

 

I'm not as expert as these guys but I have managed to fix a few things over many years.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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Oldjohn,

 

Great stuff.

 

Something else I discovered by looking a little more closely is that the fridge is on the same circuit as the gfi circuit. So if the fridge draws 2-3 amps and is running nearly all the time with the weather being warm, and I plug in anything in the 10-12 amp range, I am essentially maxing out the 15 amp circuit; or close to it if the fridge is off. Guessing that would cause the drop?

 

Seems to me the plugs should be on a 20 amp circuit, maybe tied into the AC circuit, since I wouldn't be using the AC while using a space heater for example. And I always made it a practice to turn off AC when using a vacuum or blow dryer.

 

All that said, I have not yet taken apart the gfi but did notice the wires going in the back are bent quite sharply as they enter. So what you said makes a lot of sense about the gfi being at fault since voltage drop shows on the plug-in-meter no matter where I use the appliance.

 

Would I be correct to assume the wiring used for the gfi circuit is designed for a max 15 amps or could it be used for 20 amps? I don't know enough about wire grades but the wiring going into the gfi doesn't look very beefy (like normal house wiring).

 

Think we are making progress somewhat and I have yet to touch a thing!

Ya just can't RV without a hitch.....!

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Thanks Tin, let me respond to your latest questions:

 

 

1) "Something else I discovered by looking a little more closely is that the fridge is on the same circuit as the gfi circuit. So if the fridge draws 2-3 amps and is running nearly all the time with the weather being warm, and I plug in anything in the 10-12 amp range, I am essentially maxing out the 15 amp circuit; or close to it if the fridge is off. Guessing that would cause the drop?"

 

 

RESPONSE: (I'm NOT a fan nor would I have designed the RV with 10 outlets PLUS the fridge all on a single circuit FWIW which is NOTHING LOL)

 

a) The engineering practice in my day in our shop in accordance with all the NEC classes I had to attend over the years, would have called for a design such that the maximum continuous load on that 15 amp circuit would be 12 amps, so yes in that respect you are indeed approaching maxing out the circuits capacity if you're drawing 12 amps continuous (iffffffffff the 80% rule applies?) HOWEVER as long as the wires ampacity and the circuits overcurrent protection are both 15 amps you are still within the theoretical limits related to the wires ability to dissipate the heat produced by 15 amps of current flow and NOT degrade the wire or insulation integrity HOWEVER as our friend Kirk correctly noted and I agreed, if a Thermal Magnetic circuit breaker was used and you draw around the max 15 amps over a long time period THE BREAKER MIGHT EVENTUALLYTRIP OUT ON THE THERMAL.

 

B) Guessing that would cause the drop????

 

Voltage drop across the line depends on the length,,,,,,,, and the current,,,,,,,,, and the wire size HOWEVER in an RV where the length cant be all that long IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF there are no bad loose burned carboned resistive connections?????? 12 to 15 amps across a relatively short wire run I WOULD NOT ENVISION THAT AS THE CAUSE OF AN EXCESSIVE VOLTAGE DROP, BUT RATHER THINK A LOOSE BURNED RESISTIVE CONNECTION TO STILL BE THE CAUSE Now if you were running say 150 feet of wire its a different story!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

NOTE given the exact length and wire size and current its easy to calculate the voltage drop which I cant do here so dont anyone have a calf now lol

 

 

2) "Seems to me the plugs should be on a 20 amp circuit, maybe tied into the AC circuit, since I wouldn't be using the AC while using a space heater for example. And I always made it a practice to turn off AC when using a vacuum or blow dryer."

 

RESPONSE

 

I prefer a 20 amp circuit myself but I didn't design the RV nor have to satisfy the bean counters lol

 

However its often the practice and I consider it as engineering sound to place the AC on its own dedicated circuit because when it starts theres a voltage sag (high initial inrush current when compressor starts) and such is NOT good for other devices in the RV, especially some sensitive electronics

 

 

3) All that said, I have not yet taken apart the gfi but did notice the wires going in the back are bent quite sharply as they enter. So what you said makes a lot of sense about the gfi being at fault since voltage drop shows on the plug-in-meter no matter where I use the appliance.

 

RESPONSE

 

While a too sharp bend or a cut or penetration may cause stress on the wire, I STILL THINK A LOOSE BURNED RESISTIVE CONNECTION IS THE PROBLEM , BUT I WOULDNT RULE OUT WHAT YOU SAY

 

4) "Would I be correct to assume the wiring used for the gfi circuit is designed for a max 15 amps or could it be used for 20 amps?"

 

RESPONSE (NO don't use a 15 amp rated GFCI on a 20 amp branch circuit, the circuit allows a 20 amp draw while the receptacle is only rated to handle 15 amps and dissipate the heat so produced)

 

a) Depending on the wire and insulation and jacketing, enclosure and environment, its my best PURE GUESS if the circuit is protected with a 15 amp circuit breaker its 14 Gauge having an ampacity of 15 amps. (and I "guess" its a 15 amp GFCI receptacle)

 

B) The GFCI may be rated for 15 or 20 amps, it should be noted somewhere right on it PLUS the slots can tell you if its a 15 or the 20 amp T Slot unit.

If the wire and breaker are 15 amp rated I would use a 15 amp GFCI but if the wire and breaker are 20 amp you could use a 20 amp GFCI.

 

BOTTOM LINE IF YOURE NOT EXPERIENCED I WOULDNT MESS WITH CHANGING THE GFCI OR THE WIRES OR BREAKER SERVING IT

 

5) I don't know enough about wire grades but the wiring going into the gfi doesn't look very beefy (like normal house wiring).

 

RESPONSE

 

It actually may be LESS then normal house wiring, most of which is 12 gauge wire and 20 amp breaker protected while you RV could have 14 gauge 15 amp wire and 15 breaker

 

Hope this answers your great questions and Im sure if I missed anything all the other fine gents here can add to or correct this since I'm long retired and very rusty on all this stuff and certainly NOT any expert, but hey I try my best to help the best I can to repay all those who have helped me, especially Jack and Yarome and Stanley and Kirk, all good gents.

 

Best wishes and God Bless all

 

John T Too long retired Electrical Engineer

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Since the fridge is on the same circuit as the 10 outlets have you unplugged the fridge and plugged in the heater or hair dryer to see if you have the same voltage drop? If you don't have a voltage drop then maybe the fridge is the 2nd outlet on the circuit. Also does the fridge turn off when you test the GFI? I would assume the fridge does go off, but I would verify if I was there troubleshooting.

 

The above won't necessary "fix" the problem. However gathering as much info about the trailer and problem never hurts and may help isolate where the problem is.

Al & Sharon
2006 Winnebago Journey 36G 
2020 Chevy Colorado Toad
San Antonio, TX

http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/

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Oldjohn,

 

You (and Kirk) have an impressive amount of knowledge,,,I am absorbing it all and if nothing else, learning an awful lot about RV electricity. I'm smart enough to not get in over my head, but curious enough to want to learn more by going hands on (with the power OFF of course).

 

Trucken,

 

You are correct also. I do that, except it only lasts for hours, not days! :)

 

Al,

 

Good point about the fridge-need to turn it off completely maybe to truly gauge things. Otherwise it defaults to propane.

 

Thanks all,,,truly enjoying expanding my knowledge.

Ya just can't RV without a hitch.....!

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