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What size generator Do I need?


time_traveler

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Also as far as noise is concerned, a single 3,000 watt Honda EU3000is is a bit quieter than 2 Honda EU2000s running in parallel. In fact, an EU3000is is a little quieter than an EU2000 under the same load. The EU3000I (handy) is lighter, but quite a bit noisier at 57-65 dBa than the electric start EU3000is which is rated at 49-58 dBa. For comparison, a single EU2000 produces 53-59dBa depending on load. Two generators running in parallel are only about 2-3 dB louder than a single generator (noise volume is not additive) this is partially because a pair running in parallel will share the load so operate at a lower sound level than you would expect.

 

There are also those who construct generator boxes to keep them out of the weather when running and drop the noise a couple decibels. There are few on the Internet, just be sure if you are using one that the generator is properly ventilated. There's exhaust kit available for using a Honda generator in an enclosure, to duct hot exhaust gasses out of the box. Here's a link: http://www.generator-line.com/services.html I prefer a simpler technique. Just get a long extension cord and put your generator on the other side of your neighbor's RV so it blocks some of the noise. B) Seriously though, anything that comes between your generator and RV, such as your truck, a large rock, a building, etc will reduce the apparent noise. Just moving it away from your RV the length of your power cord will help a good bit too. One time I put my generator in a small depression about 3-4 ft. lower than the pad my camper was on (with a few trees screening some of the noise too) and I could barely hear it run. Of course my neighbor wasn't too happy :P - just kidding, I had no neighbors that day.

 

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I am looking at the Honda EU7000IS 7000W Super Quiet Light Weight Inverter 120/240v Fuel Efficient Generator with iMonitor LCD. Does anyone have this? If so how do you like it?

 

I will install it on the back of my 27' Travel Trailer. I will mostly be boondocking. I will be running a sewing machine which doesn't draw much but the iron is a 1800 watt. I will be using the iron a lot of the time. Also running the AC at the same time.

 

Do you think this is over kill?

 

My new Life

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Welcome to the Escapee's forums. We are happy to have you here and we will do all that we can to support and assist you.

I will install it on the back of my 27' Travel Trailer. I will mostly be boondocking. I will be running a sewing machine which doesn't draw much but the iron is a 1800 watt. I will be using the iron a lot of the time. Also running the AC at the same time.

 

Do you think this is over kill?

In terms of power and performance, it is probably a very good choice, but my concern is one of weight. You will be adding about 300# to the back bumper of a travel trailer? Have you checked to see what effect that will have on your weight distribution? And what sort of mount is the generator going to be using? Will it be in the center of the trailer or to one side? Weight distribution is very important as is observing the weight limits designed into the travel trailer and whatever you tow it with. I have no doubt that the generator will do the job that you have in mind but I have serious reservations about hanging it on the back of a travel trailer.

 

This unit does have good reports from Consumer Reports, but with one exception. This will not make you popular in camping areas and it will probably be loud for you inside as well.

 

Noise: Measured at 23 and 50 feet from the generator. We recommend hearing protection for standing close by the unit while it's running.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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I will install it on the back of my 27' Travel Trailer.

 

That would, more than likely, not be a possibility. Of course, it will depend on your trailer, however, the greater majority of TT frames are not constructed to handle that kind of a load.. even if a sufficiently sized support is attached to the frame itself as reinforcements, the frame is the weak point. The 'lever' action can cause your frame to crack or "warp". Most of the "best" will only handle up to 200lbs. A "lite" trailer will generally only handle 70lbs or so (about the weight of a spare tire and bracket), while some won't handle much more than the weight of the bumper, supports and a moderately sized bumper sticker. ;) That's not to say that their aren't TT frames that "could" handle that much weight, but they are not at all common.

 

For a genset that size my first choice would be to haul it in an insulated genny box in the rear of my truck. Even then.. it's going to be loud. If it were me, I would probably be looking more at running dual EU3000 gensets and switch out my iron for an 1000-1100 watt unit. That would give me more than enough juice on 1 genset to run my "day-to-day" with the option of cranking up the second genset only when needed for A/C. It would likely save you a bit on your fuel bill as well.

 

Food for thought.

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This is the spec sheet for the Honda generator.

EU 7000is, Length--47.2in, Width--27.6in, Height-t-28.4in, Dry Weight--262lbs (including battery), Engine Type--GX390 (four-stroke engine technology), Displacement (cm3)--389, Net Power Output--11.7 HP (8.7kW) @ 3,600rpm, Starting Method--Recoil/Electric, Ignition system--Digital CDI with Variable Timing, Fuel--Unleaded gasoline, Maximum Output (VA)--7,000, Rated Output (VA) 5,500, Output Voltage (V) 120/240V, Generation Method--Multipolar inverter system, Noise level [dB (A)/7 m]--60, Runtime per tankful--6.0 hrs. @rated load, 18 hrs. @ 1/4 load, AC breaker--Electronic protector built in the inverter

 

I was thinking that the noise level at 60 was very quiet. Am I wrong?

 

The trailer has a pull out tray on it that I am going to have a welding shop enforce for me, so that it would hold the weight of the generator, gas cans and a small tool box.

 

What do you all think that I should have instead. I want a quite generator that I can run in the parks, (noise wise) and one that I can boondock with, as this will be what I mainly will be doing. I have a lot of money invested in electronics that I will be running and want to have something that will handle the loads plus not put them at risk.

 

Thanks in advance for the help.

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Yarmoe I will be storing a lot in the back of my pickup so don't want to have my generator in there. Also do not want to have to lift in and out of rig. As for the iron, wellllllllllllll as a quilter and embroiderer you want to have crisp seams and a smaller iron although ideal in this setting, but it just will not work for me. I have tried them and uuuucccckkkkk!!!!! LOL :)

 

I have looked into the dual EU3000's and they weigh 134lbs apiece so would not be saving on weight.

 

Any other thoughts?

 

I do appreciate the impute.

 

 

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I was thinking that the noise level at 60 was very quiet. Am I wrong?

 

The trailer has a pull out tray on it that I am going to have a welding shop enforce for me, so that it would hold the weight of the generator, gas cans and a small tool box.

To get a feel for what the noise levels really mean, here is a chart of comparisons of different dB rated sounds. If you notice, 60dB is not terribly loud but it can be easily heard for some distance. The measure dB is not a linear thing but one of halves so it is progressive. Your generator is not terribly loud but it can be heard. Most smaller portable generators are in the lower 50/55 dB ranges so would be noticeably less sound as 50 dB is half the volume of 60 dB.

 

A much larger problem in my view is the addition of some 300# to the rear of your trailer. Remember that each time you increase the weight on the rear of the RV you also remove some from the tongue, because of the principle of leverage. If your travel trailer has a tandem axle it also lowers weight on the front axle, shifting more to the rear axle. Where is that pull-out tray located? is it on the side or rear and is it centered to distribute that extra weight to both sides or will it put it all on one side? Weight distribution is very important in an RV as it effects the handling of the trailer, tire wear, and a several other things which should be considered. We always recommend that RVers get their RV weighed in a scale that will give individual wheel weights for these reasons.

 

EDIT: Just to add a bit to this post. I did a bit of digging to look more closely at the weight issue. Your gas cans probably weigh several pounds empty and each 5 gallons of gasoline will add 31.5# so since you said cans that probably means at least two cans for a total of 65-70#. With the tool box and some extra metal for the welding it looks like at a minimum the total will exceed 400#.

 

If you were to share what your 27' travel trailer is, we might be able to find some technical specs for it and narrow the speculation part of this down somewhat.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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I was thinking that the noise level at 60 was very quiet. Am I wrong?

 

The trailer has a pull out tray on it that I am going to have a welding shop enforce for me, so that it would hold the weight of the generator, gas cans and a small tool box.

 

It's quite decent for a genset of that size. As Kirk pointed out though.. dB ratings are not linear but exponential. The difference from 53dB-60dB is nearly double the noise level and can go from being a little distracting background noise to all out nerve wrackingly annoying. An insulated gen box could be helpful.

 

It is, of course, your rig, and I can't offer any firm numbers or constructional advise without knowing your rigs specs, but I've seen more than a few folks get themselves into trouble doing what your suggesting. Just about any welding shop is generally more than willing to do that type of work, but most of the time, fail to take into account the counter lever forces on the frame itself. TT's generally have less than adequate suspension. Every little bump exerts a 'tremendous' amount of downward force when you are talking about adding that much weight to the rear of your rig. It's generally not the reinforcements or racks that fail.. it's the trailer frame that bends and cracks welds.

 

It's always possible to add full length structural members under your TT, but that gets cost prohibitive in a heartbeat if you're not able to do the work yourself. Most welding shops will only add supports to the rear.. and maybe forward 3'-4' or so. Not to mention that doing so is going to affect your cargo capacity and GVWR. Put on top of that the other factors impacted that Kirk mentioned.. I would be extremely careful about attempting that without doing some serious math and having a good long talk with the MFG's tech department.

 

Just ballparking some weights in my head... 260lbs of genset, 50lbs of fuel, 100lbs for the rack itself, 70lbs of reinforcements (extended rear end only), 20lb toolbox. That's pushing 400lbs with very conservative numbers.

 

I'm not saying it can't or shouldn't be done (your rig may be more than capable).. just be sure to do your due diligence and take what the welding shop tells you with a grain of salt.

 

Alternate suggestion? Is there enough room on your A-frame? Towing a small trailer behind your TT might be an option depending on where you travel. I don't have any personal experience with this company, but I've seen them on the road and might give you some various ideas of what might be possible.

 

Also do not want to have to lift in and out of rig.

 

I have looked into the dual EU3000's and they weigh 134lbs apiece so would not be saving on weight.

 

You're correct. It's not a weight savings, as such, but if you're having to on/off load (even from a lower cargo rack), moving 2 - 130lb gensets is easier than one 260lb one. The fuel savings would add up over time if you're mainly running a single 3000watt and second only when needed. It also gives you redundancy in the event one where to fail.

 

A much larger problem in my view is the addition of some 300# to the rear of your trailer.

 

X2

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Sounds to me like a factory rack, so that weight comes off the calculations, but it's still a louder and heavier unit. Life in an RV is always about compromise, so it's time to look where compromise can be made.

I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 

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My trailer is a 2011 Prowler 27P RBS. You guys have given me a lot to think about.

 

What do you suggest instead for a generator? I want something that is quiet and efficient.

 

I will be adding 4 golf cart batteries to the front tongue.

 

I just don't know where else to locate a generator. I can not put it in the back of the pickup as I can't lift it in and out. As I know this would be the ideal solution it just won't work for me.

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Golf cart batteries are going to weigh about 60# each so you are getting into a weight issue once more. Your RV may already have two batteries on the tongue, but I've never seen four and that means you will be adding 120# of battery plus the metal frame to support them. The result will be an increase in tongue weight of at least 150# and quite likely more. The trailer spec sheet lists the tongue weight now at 748# for a trailer of 10,160# GVWR. That means that you will add 20% to the rated tongue weight, assuming that there are now two batteries there now. It may be twice that much additional weight. This could be just a major a problem as putting the heavy generator on the back of the RV. RVs are designed for a particular weight load and each time that you add something new you must take away from the existing capacity to carry as it is a designed in feature which you can not change. As I look at the dry weight, tank capacities and such, doing a bit of math tells me that the trailer has about 2000# of cargo capacity. From that you must deduct the weight of all things which are added and keep weight distribution in mind. You also need to be aware of and consider the weight rating of the rear axle of your tow vehicle. Adding major things with a lot of weight is not a simple thing and can be a both safety and reliability issues.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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Kipor 3K. It is a quiet as the Honda .Will run one A/C, lights,Tv If A/C is not running it will take a lot more. Fridge and hot water tank on Propane.Been using it for 10 years with not a problem. It is heavy. Two Honda 2k gens is a better idea.Got the

Kipor way back when they were coming on the USA market at a good price.It is actually a Chinese knock off of the Honda gen.

 

Got about 30 amps to work with so just add it up. Got a gadget called a "kill a watt" meter.Plug it into a wall outlet then plug the appliance into the meter and it will read out the power consumption.

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This could be just a major a problem as putting the heavy generator on the back of the RV.

 

Oh.. I dunno. Providing the receiver and tow vehicle are within ratings, and a WDH is being used, carrying 4 - 6v's and 2 - 30# LP's on the a-frame shouldn't pose much of a problem. Some of that weight will be on the trailer axles as well (if the hitch is set up properly) so the increase on the pin [edited: hitch] shouldn't be terribly significant, however, it's correct that the battery weights will need to be deducted from the available carry capacity.

 

It looks like the Prowlers rear rack is intended as a bike rack. Typically, those are going to have a total load capacity around 100-150lbs. The rack and supports themselves are probably pushing 70-100lbs so combined that's a 200-250lb rear end load capacity. Pretty typical of what you would expect in a rig of that size. however... IMO, I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to up that to 450lbs without at least dual 4'-6' support members.. which would add even more weight on top of the 450. I don't know if the weight distribution on the axles could be reconciled, but it very well might be doable with that size of a rig. After all... you're still only talking roughly 5% of the GVWR. That extra 150#'s on the tongue would actually help in that case, but then again, that depends on how the rig lays when dry.

 

Before proceeding I would definitely want to get my rig completely loaded out with the batteries on board and WDH properly set, then take it in for weighing to get some hard numbers to work from. If the weight distribution can be reconciled and there is sufficient weight allowances to stay at least 10% under my GVWR.. and all the other tow rating numbers check out... I think it's doable.

 

Some compromises might need to be made.. like hauling my fuel in the back of my TV, etc. I would then have to decide if the cost to benefit would be worth the cash outlay.

 

I would still rather run dual 3000 watt gensets over the 7000 though.

 

Major Hi-Jack from the OP's original question.. apologies. :unsure:

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Oh.. I dunno. Providing the receiver and tow vehicle are within ratings, and a WDH is being used, carrying 4 - 6v's and 2 - 30# LP's on the a-frame shouldn't pose much of a problem. Some of that weight will be on the trailer axles as well (if the hitch is set up properly) so the increase on the pin shouldn't be terribly significant, however, it's correct that the battery weights will need to be deducted from the available carry capacity.

And that is the entire problem. We simply don't know what was designed into the trailer. The small trailer that we own has a warning in the paperwork that came with it about the addition of excess weight to the tongue area, stating that adding too much wight will void the trailer frame warranty. We also don't know where the storage space inside of the RV is located or how much weight is already planned to be placed in the various locations of the trailer. Weight distribution is very important to things like handling, tire wear, and even safety. When you start to make major weight changes you need to know a lot more design information than is available to us. You mention pin weight but this isn't a fifth wheel, it is a travel trailer and tongue weight is far different in effect on the tow vehicle than pin weight is.

 

Mynewlife, this is your trailer and clearly you can choose to do anything that you can find a shop willing to do for you, but it is important to realize that a shop being willing doesn't make it a good idea nor that they will stand behind things if they go wrong. Most RVs are designed with some pretty specific criteria in mind and when we start adding heavy items it is important to remember that every pound of weight we add must be subtracted from the total amount of weight that is carried in other areas. It may be fine to add batteries to the tongue if it is built strong enough, as long as you remember that the added weight means that much less in weight capacity for the cargo of your trailer. That same thing is true for weight that is added to the rear of the trailer and when you put the extra weight on areas that were not designed for it by the RV builder, you may be introducing new stress issues for the trailer frame or suspension. Before you get too far you should make sure that you know and understand the weight limits of your trailer and of your tow vehicle as all modifications must stay within those limits for safety and handling.

 

Since Heartland has a pretty good reputation for customer support, I suggest that before you start to make modifications based upon the advice of any of us, first contact Heartland technical support and ask for their opinion. Those are the people who actually know what can be safely done and all of us here are just voicing opinions. It may be that you can do all of what you first had in mind successfully, but since there is room for some doubts, go to the builder and get their advice first.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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You mention pin weight but this isn't a fifth wheel, it is a travel trailer and tongue weight is far different in effect on the tow vehicle than pin weight is.

 

Very true. Thanks for the catch. Sometimes, what's left of my brain and fingers don't speak the same language.. especially before my morning cuppa. ;)

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2 Honda EU3000is's what is the total amps?

 

Roughly 27amps when in parallel. You might look at possibly installing a hard start capacitor that would cut down on the juice required to kick over your compressor. This is an old webpage so you'll need to read down into the comments to get the most updated information. The capacitors have changed since the original write up for this type of mod.

 

For most folks the HS6 seems to be the most "universal" while some of the newer electronic ones may work, but are a bit hit and miss. About a $12 and 10-15 minute plug-n-play mod (for the greater majority) that makes life a whole lot easier on your power systems.

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Roughly 27amps when in parallel. You might look at possibly installing a hard start capacitor that would cut down on the juice required to kick over your compressor. This is an old webpage so you'll need to read down into the comments to get the most updated information. The capacitors have changed since the original write up for this type of mod.

 

For most folks the HS6 seems to be the most "universal" while some of the newer electronic ones may work, but are a bit hit and miss. About a $12 and 10-15 minute plug-n-play mod (for the greater majority) that makes life a whole lot easier on your power systems.

 

Really? You'd think that two 3000 watt generators linked together would give more than 27 amps. Just one 3000 watt generator should give you 27 amps.

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You'd think that two 3000 watt generators linked together would give more than 27 amps. Just one 3000 watt generator should give you 27 amps.

3000 watts, divided by 120V = 25A

 

But that is peak and most portable generators will not run continuously at their peak power output.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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Really? You'd think that two 3000 watt generators linked together would give more than 27 amps. Just one 3000 watt generator should give you 27 amps.

 

WHooops!! Sorry sorry... 46.6 amps in parallel. I dunno why 2-2000's got stuck in my brain pan. In sync mode.. max is 2800 watts per (23.3amps)... max output @ 3000 watts for 30 minutes is 25 amps on a single unit.

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3000 watts, divided by 120V = 25A

 

True.. "by the numbers".. but actual metered output is slightly lower with nearly all portable inverter types. There's a bit lost to "overhead" within the unit that you never see.

 

To be honest, I'm not quite sure what the 10 minute iAVR (surge) is on a 3000, but I would think it would probably be somewhere in the 3200-3300 watt range for a stand-alone, but iAVR and max output modes won't be available when running in parallel.

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