thats it ! no more RV trailers for me

[Dollytrolley]

 

Darn your hide Rooster......

So.....My memory-loss-mom-in-law has decided to give me a break from keeping her away from the large bore handguns and butcher knives so I decided to get a little more crazy than normal and .........assign a Weight & Balance to the Diamond-RV-TEE project........

 

So....Assume:

 

TEE-Trailer:

Fifth box 102 in W X 108 in H X 480 in L ,

Initial wheelbase 350 in (measured from hitch pin -Datum station 00.0")

Empty Wt 13,000 Lbs @ C G 241.32 inches aft of datum

 

Example TEE-Trailer Loading:

1A; Fresh Water (120 Gal Cap) @ Sta 120” = 1008 Lbs

2A; Fresh Water (40 Gal Cap) @ Sta 190” = 504 Lbs

3A; Grey Water (60 Gal Cap) @ Sta 160” = 504 Lbs

4A; Propane (two 40# ) @ Sta 96” = 110 Lbs

5A; Black Water (60 Gal Cap) @ Sta 158” = 400 Lbs

6A; Cargo bay #1 @ Sta 240” = 500 Lbs

7A; Car Power Wagon WWII @ Sta 290” = 4,200 Lbs

 

Example loaded Weight & Balance = 20,562 Lbs , C G @ Sta 246.90 Inches aft of hitch and 103.10 ahead of trailer axle, Hitch pin load = 6,057 Lbs and axle load is 14,505 Lbs (495 Lbs of axle rated load remaining).

Weight distribution:

Hitch Pin = 29.46%

Trailer axle = 70.54%

 

Diamond Tee Toter:

Assume:

Initial wheelbase 280 in (measured from Steer Axle C L -Datum station 00.0")

Empty Wt 12,000 Lbs @ C G 135.33 inches aft of datum

Empty Weight Distribution : Steer Axle = 6,200 Lbs; 51.61%

Rear Axle = 5,800 Lbs; 48.39%

Example truck loading:

1T; Driver @ Sta 96” = 220 Lbs

2T; Pass @ Sta 96” = 120 Lbs

3T; Sleeper Cargo @ Sta 180” = 350 Lbs

4T; Bed Cargo @ Sta 200” = 75 Lbs

5T; Fuel @ Sta 115” = 600 Lbs

6T ; Trailer Hitch load @ Sta 330' = 6,057 Lbs

Example loaded Truck Weight & Balance = 19,422 Lbs , C G @ Sta 195.78 Inches aft of steer axle and 84.22” ahead of rear axle, Hitch pin load = 6,057 Lbs and rear axle load is 13,580 Lbs (3,420 Lbs of rear axle rated load remaining).

Weight distribution:

Steer axle = 30.08% = 5,842 Lbs

Rear axle = 69.92% = 13,580 Lbs

Disclaimer:.........IF you are rattling around in a Diamond Tee this aint your first gig with hammers and wrenches so.....have a few adult-beverages and ….....

Drive on.........(Liers number.......and number lie... some times)

 

 

 

 

 

[Star Dreamer]

Dolly,

 

For our example, if you have time, rerun your numbers with no power wagon in the back (empty garage) and with a 6600# vehicle in the garage and let us know what happens to pin weight, trailer axle weight and truck axle weights.

 

Also a minor modification would be needed to more closely resemble real loading is the vechile in the garage should be split into two axle loads as most vehicles are not equally loaded on each of their axles, Usually more on front axle.

 

One of the other issues with a single axle trailer is how will it handle if you get a flat, currently with our triple axle, we cannot feel it, which is good in one way in that it does not make us lose control of the trailer but does reguire a TPMS.

 

Dave

[RoosterBooster]

Dolly

very cool .... thank you

need to play with that some

as much as i love them, but there will be no vintage Power wagon

garage will only be 10' ...

at first for (most likely) a Yamaha Raptor 700cc ATV (iirc ~500lbs)

later down the road i may build myself my modern version of this Austin 7 Special;

 

 

super lightweight (lots of aluminum), 180+ hp Yamaha R1 or GSXR "offset midship" engine, aluminum "baby" quick change rear, ....

(if i ever find the time/money to build it )

 

so that would reduce garage weight (and height) significantly

 

 

 

Dave,

in your case (HDT air brake truck) i would use a 20klbs air brake trailer axle with standard hub centric 10 lug,

together with the beefier 20-25klbs capacity Ridewell suspension.

 

dual tires add some safety in case one goes flat

(but i guess only if your not too heavy and the other tire blows right after it gets the full load )

 

but to be honest i`m not worried about blowouts with virgin 22.5ers that have a combined load rating that is well over the actual load

 

 

 

 

[RoosterBooster]

Rooster,

Compared to that awesome Diamond T of yours, anything it pulled would be a piece of crap !!!

Anxious to see what you come up with for finished project

Cheers,

Bob

 

thanks Bob

 

The basic RV construction is lousy and cheap like mentioned. The manufacturers assume it is going to sit for 48 weeks out of the year, and rot the rest. Star Dreamer and I are the only guys here that have flavors of a race car trailer, which is a cargo trailer with minimum living space, but at least built a little stronger than the toyhauler that happens to have a garage in the back. But the Vintage that he has and the Work and Play that I have do endure certain drawbacks and minimum design parameters.

 

I just delivered a brand new Kentucky I picked up at the plant in Louisville and delivered to their division in Walled Lake, MI that modifies them for all sorts of uses, enclosed car haulers, Nascar hospitality trailers, portable workshops, etc. There is nothing like starting with something that is designed for the purpose. If you poke around I am sure you can find a 35-40' bedbug trailer that would be suitable for conversion. You may want to quiz them, they build just about anything, and because all of it is the same basic construction, not that expensive. And take it from there.

 

Jeff

as some of the older regulars probably remember i was already considering several times to converting a semi trailer

single drop (electronics van) or even a double drop like most moving vans...

but that was when i had the Pete

now with my much lighter <T> it would be too much trailer for my taste

too square, too tall, too strong in places where i dont need it,...

so i think i cant avoid a "from the ground up" new construction to fit my needs

 

one thing that i desperately want to avoid is a high garage floor height with a heavy ramp door, door frame, etc...

 

a DSC axle-less setup would solve the floor height problem ; http://dallassmithcorp.com/products/lo-floor-trailer-chassis-modules/

 

... but is just out of my price range

 

 

garage is definitely a challenge, considering that i want tall 22.5 tires and have to settle on a basic (fairly cheap) straight tube axle

 

so while looking at (cargo) airplanes like the C130 ...

 

 

...i had this idea ;

 

how about no floor in the garage (in the traditional sense)

how about making the ramp door doing double duty as the floor

 

this has been done before by Travel Supreme ...

 

 

made this rough sketch of how i envision it ;

(sorry for the cell pic... dont have the PC i use for CAD online at the moment)

 

 

10 foot aluminum ramp/floor on HD fabricated front pivots and suspended/moved by two hydraulic cylinders

with a light aluminum "swing up" door that also acts as awing/covered work area

 

bedroom over the garage, then a elevated bathroom area over the axle

frame drops down for a low kitchen,living room floor

couches/ movie room over the 5th wheel...

 

i made this photoshop of how i envision the outside proportions

 

[beyerjf]

You layout is on the money. To make the garage long enough to accommodate say a Jeep Wrangler pivot your ramp on top of the lowered wheel wells to accommodate almost any length vehicle. Put in level position for travel, like the "baskets" on a car hauling trailer. Rear overhang doesn't get to be a problem that way. The Kentucky trailer I just delivered was going to be made into an enclosed car hauler. It had 17.5 tires and very low unintrusive wheel wells. The floor was no more than 18" from the ground, and the wheel wells were no more than 12" above that. They were going to mount a 15' hydraulic tailgate on it for both levels of cars, but your upward tailgate and ramps would have worked just as well.

[Dollytrolley]

Dolly,

 

For our example, if you have time, rerun your numbers with no power wagon in the back (empty garage) and with a 6600# vehicle in the garage and let us know what happens to pin weight, trailer axle weight and truck axle weights.

 

Also a minor modification would be needed to more closely resemble real loading is the vechile in the garage should be split into two axle loads as most vehicles are not equally loaded on each of their axles, Usually more on front axle.

 

One of the other issues with a single axle trailer is how will it handle if you get a flat, currently with our triple axle, we cannot feel it, which is good in one way in that it does not make us lose control of the trailer but does reguire a TPMS.

 

Dave

 

 

Star & Rooster......

So.....My memory-loss-mom-in-law has peeked at you guys thread comments and her comment is that you two might need to check the temperature of your adult-beverages........ warm beer may lead to the desire to clone classic British bodies hiding oriental drive-trains........no known cure.......mom knows a lot of things..... they are just a bit-out-of-order........

 

So Star here is the Rooster-RV-Tee combo numbers after the power wagon fell out......

 

So....Assume:

 

TEE-Trailer:

Fifth box 102 in W X 108 in H X 480 in L ,

Initial wheelbase 350 in (measured from hitch pin -Datum station 00.0")

Empty Wt 13,000 Lbs @ C G 241.32 inches aft of datum

 

Example TEE-Trailer Loading:

1A; Fresh Water (120 Gal Cap) @ Sta 120” = 1008 Lbs

2A; Fresh Water (40 Gal Cap) @ Sta 190” = 504 Lbs

3A; Grey Water (60 Gal Cap) @ Sta 160” = 504 Lbs

4A; Propane (two 40# ) @ Sta 96” = 110 Lbs

5A; Black Water (60 Gal Cap) @ Sta 158” = 400 Lbs

6A; Cargo bay #1 @ Sta 240” = 500 Lbs

7A; Car garage empty @ Sta 290” = 0 Lbs

 

Example loaded Weight & Balance = 16,362 Lbs , C G @ Sta 235.84 Inches aft of hitch and 114.16 ahead of trailer axle, Hitch pin load = 5,337 Lbs and axle load is 11,025 Lbs (3,975 Lbs of axle rated load remaining).

Weight distribution:

Hitch Pin = 32.62%

Trailer axle = 67.38%

 

Diamond Tee Toter:

Assume:

Initial wheelbase 280 in (measured from Steer Axle C L -Datum station 00.0")

Empty Wt 12,000 Lbs @ C G 135.33 inches aft of datum

Empty Weight Distribution : Steer Axle = 6,200 Lbs; 51.67%

Rear Axle = 5,800 Lbs; 48.33%

Example truck loading:

1T; Driver @ Sta 96” = 220 Lbs

2T; Pass @ Sta 96” = 120 Lbs

3T; Sleeper Cargo @ Sta 180” = 350 Lbs

4T; Bed Cargo @ Sta 200” = 75 Lbs

5T; Fuel @ Sta 115” = 600 Lbs

6T ; Trailer Hitch load @ Sta 330' = 5,337 Lbs

 

Example loaded Truck Weight & Balance = 16,362 Lbs , C G @ Sta 235.84 Inches aft of steer axle and 114.16” ahead of rear axle, Hitch pin load = 5,337 Lbs and rear axle load is 11,025 Lbs (5,975 Lbs of rear axle rated load remaining).

Weight distribution:

Steer axle = 32.84% = 5,337 Lbs

Rear axle = 67.38% = 11,025 Lbs

 

Ok Star......next post will be with the garage filled with a 4,200 lb WWII Power Wagon loaded with 2,400 Lbs of........warm beer......... (6,600 lbs in garage)....

 

Disclaimer:.........of course everyone knows that warm beer weighs less than cold beer so …...since many British aircraft tend to be a bit under-powered........warm beer is used to lighten the “load”........

 

Drive on.........(Liers number .......and who's got the latest numbers)

 

[grendel]

I guess I am a bad influence, eh?

[Jack Mayer]

Dolly, you have too much time on your hands. I can put you to work if you want.

 

I'm working on an HDT/RV that is specifically designed to be hauled by an HDT. It cannot be hauled by a "conventional" truck. Basically a semi design with a flat floor. Jeff, I should have run that by you when we were together. Custom frame and suspension (likely air), with 22.5 wheels. This will likely be commercialized to a product if it comes out as I hope. For me this is "background" work, but I'd like to have a pretty firm proposal done by the summer.

[hdonlybob]

 

thanks Bob

 

 

Jeff

as some of the older regulars probably remember i was already considering several times to converting a semi trailer

single drop (electronics van) or even a double drop like most moving vans...

but that was when i had the Pete

now with my much lighter <T> it would be too much trailer for my taste

too square, too tall, too strong in places where i dont need it,...

so i think i cant avoid a "from the ground up" new construction to fit my needs

 

one thing that i desperately want to avoid is a high garage floor height with a heavy ramp door, door frame, etc...

 

a DSC axle-less setup would solve the floor height problem ; http://dallassmithcorp.com/products/lo-floor-trailer-chassis-modules/

 

... but is just out of my price range

 

 

garage is definitely a challenge, considering that i want tall 22.5 tires and have to settle on a basic (fairly cheap) straight tube axle

 

so while looking at (cargo) airplanes like the C130 ...

 

 

...i had this idea ;

 

how about no floor in the garage (in the traditional sense)

how about making the ramp door doing double duty as the floor

 

this has been done before by Travel Supreme ...

 

 

made this rough sketch of how i envision it ;

(sorry for the cell pic... dont have the PC i use for CAD online at the moment)

 

 

10 foot aluminum ramp/floor on HD fabricated front pivots and suspended/moved by two hydraulic cylinders

with a light aluminum "swing up" door that also acts as awing/covered work area

 

bedroom over the garage, then a elevated bathroom area over the axle

frame drops down for a low kitchen,living room floor

couches/ movie room over the 5th wheel...

 

i made this photoshop of how i envision the outside proportions

 

 

Rooster,

I camped next to a motor home like that for 10 days at Sturgis Bike Week a few years ago, and got to know the people well that owned it...That idea as well as it's mechanics is one of the best I have ever seen...Simple, proficient, and very accessible for maintenance if required..

I have always wondered why they quit making them....

Go for it man

[RoosterBooster]

I guess I am a bad influence, eh?

 

yeah, you definitely re-started the flame for my burning desire to build a trailer that is usable for full timing

 

Dolly, you have too much time on your hands. I can put you to work if you want.

 

I'm working on an HDT/RV that is specifically designed to be hauled by an HDT. It cannot be hauled by a "conventional" truck. Basically a semi design with a flat floor. Jeff, I should have run that by you when we were together. Custom frame and suspension (likely air), with 22.5 wheels. This will likely be commercialized to a product if it comes out as I hope. For me this is "background" work, but I'd like to have a pretty firm proposal done by the summer.

 

Jack

yes, Grendel (John) and i are also talking about that exact same thing for our trailers ;

get away from the pickup truck tow-able designs and build them to fit our M/HDT needs

John already came up with the name;

instead of RV`s we call our planed trailers now FTV`s (full time vehicles)

[noteven]

A trailer for full timing with all systems enclosed within the well insulated aluminum envelope, heat recovery ventilation for chilly weather...

 

Wiring and etcetera run in chases not dogs breakfast routing

 

Pay attention to weight

 

Air ride

 

Air or wire fed brake option.

 

Like Rooster drop floor garage. Can hear the rattle of empties rolling out the back

[noteven]

Did I mention no staples and glued sawdust?

[RoosterBooster]

A trailer for full timing with all systems enclosed within the well insulated aluminum envelope, heat recovery ventilation for chilly weather...

 

Wiring and etcetera run in chases not dogs breakfast routing

 

Pay attention to weight

 

Air ride

 

Air or wire fed brake option.

 

Like Rooster drop floor garage. Can hear the rattle of empties rolling out the back

 

funny, as i type this i actually have a torpedo heater screaming right under my toyhauler,

trying to get the frozen hot water line to the bathroom going again

 

yeah, NH definitely s.... er... blows in the winter with a crappy RV

 

so yes;

fully enclosed, insulated and heated center tunnel is also on my "must have" list

[Dollytrolley]

Dolly,

 

For our example, if you have time, rerun your numbers with no power wagon in the back (empty garage) and with a 6600# vehicle in the garage and let us know what happens to pin weight, trailer axle weight and truck axle weights.

 

Also a minor modification would be needed to more closely resemble real loading is the vechile in the garage should be split into two axle loads as most vehicles are not equally loaded on each of their axles, Usually more on front axle.

 

One of the other issues with a single axle trailer is how will it handle if you get a flat, currently with our triple axle, we cannot feel it, which is good in one way in that it does not make us lose control of the trailer but does reguire a TPMS.

 

Dave

 

 

Star & Rooster......

 

 

 

So..... Star & Rooster, here is the Rooster-RV-Tee combo numbers after Star re-loads the power wagon (4,200Lbs at Sta 290”)......Plus Two-Thousand-Four-Hundred-Pounds of warm beer into the Power Wagon at Sta 290” as well

 

So....Assume:

 

TEE-Trailer:

Fifth box 102 in W X 108 in H X 480 in L ,

Initial wheelbase 350 in (measured from hitch pin -Datum station 00.0")

Empty Wt 13,000 Lbs @ C G 241.32 inches aft of datum

 

Example TEE-Trailer Loading:

1A; Fresh Water (120 Gal Cap) @ Sta 120” = 1008 Lbs

2A; Fresh Water (40 Gal Cap) @ Sta 190” = 504 Lbs

3A; Grey Water (60 Gal Cap) @ Sta 160” = 504 Lbs

4A; Propane (two 40# ) @ Sta 96” = 110 Lbs

5A; Black Water (60 Gal Cap) @ Sta 158” = 400 Lbs

6A; Cargo bay #1 @ Sta 240” = 500 Lbs

7A; Car garage empty @ Sta 290” = 4,200 Lbs

8A; Warm beer @ Sta 290” = 2,400 Lbs

 

Example loaded Weight & Balance = 22,962 Lbs , C G @ Sta 251.41 Inches aft of hitch and 98.59 ahead of trailer axle, Hitch pin load = 6,468 Lbs and axle load is 16,494 Lbs (1,494 Lbs OVERLOADED of axle rated load).

Weight distribution:

Hitch Pin = 28.17%

Trailer axle = 71.83%

 

Diamond Tee Toter:

Assume:

Initial wheelbase 280 in (measured from Steer Axle C L -Datum station 00.0")

Empty Wt 12,000 Lbs @ C G 135.33 inches aft of datum

Empty Weight Distribution : Steer Axle = 6,200 Lbs; 51.67%

Rear Axle = 5,800 Lbs; 48.33%

Example truck loading:

1T; Driver @ Sta 96” = 220 Lbs

2T; Pass @ Sta 96” = 120 Lbs

3T; Sleeper Cargo @ Sta 180” = 350 Lbs

4T; Bed Cargo @ Sta 200” = 75 Lbs

5T; Fuel @ Sta 115” = 600 Lbs

6T ; Trailer Hitch load @ Sta 330' = 6,468 Lbs

 

Example loaded Truck Weight & Balance = 19,833 Lbs , C G @ Sta 198.56 Inches aft of steer axle and 81.44” ahead of rear axle, Hitch pin load = 5,768 Lbs and rear axle load is 14,065 Lbs (2,935 Lbs of rear axle rated load remaining).

Weight distribution:

Steer axle = 29.08% = 5,768 Lbs

Rear axle = 70.92% = 14,085 Lbs

 

Ok Star & Rooster...... with the garage filled with a 4,200 lb WWII Power Wagon loaded with 2,400 Lbs of........warm beer......... (6,600 lbs in garage).... the 15K trailer axle is a bit overloaded.......maybe....

 

What-IF........ Star programmed the Rooster-Optional-Rear-Axle-RELOCATE-Panel just below the fuzz-buster panel and dialed-the-TEE-Trailer-wheelbase out to........Sta 440”..........stay tuned children......the next post has more …..warm beer numbers

 

Disclaimer:.........of course everyone knows that warm beer ….....is worse than warm Dr. Pepper........

 

Drive on.........(Lairs number .......and who's got the better numbers)

[GoldRush]

Here is a suspension set up I'd never seen before but it allowed the trailer floor to be dropped to grade level for easy unloading of their long and low land speed car. Everyone on the team also raved about how [/url]

[MrSeas]

Check this out.....http://airbaggedtrailers.com/index.html

[Dollytrolley]

Dolly, you have too much time on your hands. I can put you to work if you want.

 

I'm working on an HDT/RV that is specifically designed to be hauled by an HDT. It cannot be hauled by a "conventional" truck. Basically a semi design with a flat floor. Jeff, I should have run that by you when we were together. Custom frame and suspension (likely air), with 22.5 wheels. This will likely be commercialized to a product if it comes out as I hope. For me this is "background" work, but I'd like to have a pretty firm proposal done by the summer.

 

Jack......

 

You are right on.....All I have is time...... this winter.......mom-in-law memory-jumble has me resorting to ......Recreational-Weight-&-Balance number-juggling to try to not pass her crazy-rating # ( wife says I sometimes pass mom....oh well....)

 

RV Weight & Balance is slightly more complex by a tiny bit than aircraft since once you arrive at the actual calculated Center of Gravity then you next have to calculate the weight distribution related to the vehicle wheelbase and then you now have calculated axle load.......then.......IF you really want to get the job done correctly you should consider the Delta-Mass of each wheel position load (as recommended by Trey).....since most RV's tend to have lateral balance issues due to various 'option" locations (Slides, generators, battery-banks, water tanks, kitchen appliances......warm-beer.....etc.)

 

The calculations are fairly simple.......the hard part is arriving at the accurate mass Center of Gravity and weight location for each item that is shifted around above the basic-RV-Empty-Wt & C G baseline.

 

Normal RV day-today operational Weight & Balance calculations are very simple once the basic-RV-Empty-Wt & C G baseline is documented AND all significant additional loads are entered into the calculations.

 

Design based Weight & Balance tends to be a bit more tedious since it may be desirable to adjust baseline components that often re-calculating components from location to another location and then re-calculating the NEW basic-RV-Empty-Wt & C G baseline.

 

In a perverted-sense it is sorta fun to "play-weight-&-balance-chess" in the design stage since it allows one to make the mistakes on paper before you make the real mistakes with hardware.....(don't ask me how I know....).

 

Anyhow feel free to shoot me the details of what your project is and I'll cast a eye on it....I have some time on my hands and am fully retired so I just need to keep mom away from guns and chainsaws.......my email is mmcdan3189@aol.com

 

Drive on..........(Hide the.......sharp objects)

 

Drive

[RoosterBooster]

Check this out.....http://airbaggedtrailers.com/index.html

yeah ... she looks like she has a set of air bags too

 

yes, i have seen that "kneeling" design before over by the low slung crowd

we offroaders usually dont even bother unloading with ramps ...

even on my deck-over trailer i usually just gunned it ... thats what ground clearance & suspension travel is for

 

in theory i "could" design and fabricate my own low riding air setup using basic M/HDT spindles, hubs & brakes.

but it would be a "one off" thing ... where on the other hand Ridewell and Dexter repair and parts are available everywhere

time and desire to do it is also a little low (i really dont enjoy welding all that much anymore )

 

i really try to KISS this (keep it simple stupid )

[Jack Mayer]

Rooster,

 

The "Keep it simple thing" is paramount, as is nationwide parts availability and commercial robustness. I'm tired of "RV stuff". My design criteria is different than most of you fabricator guys....I done WANT custom. I WANT easy availability of parts and the ability for anyone with a decent commercial shop to be able to fix it. eg. any truck place.

 

The issue of freezup is only something you see in the cheaper RVs. Not an issue at all in the custom trailers ; Spacecraft, Forks, New Horizons. But it certainly needs to be designed in. Not a big deal.

 

Same thing with most of the systems. Pretty easy and well known technology....it is just the expense of doing it "right" is not in the picture for a "build 2000 a year, for under $100K" trailer. The target price of a 45' HDT RV in my mind is right around $200K or under, and that would be a luxury RV with high end fixtures and capabilities. At least that is my current thinking. The infrastructure costs are a good chunk of that.....much more so than in the "flashy" RV industry today.

[grendel]

Rooster,

 

The "Keep it simple thing" is paramount, as is nationwide parts availability and commercial robustness. I'm tired of "RV stuff". My design criteria is different than most of you fabricator guys....I done WANT custom. I WANT easy availability of parts and the ability for anyone with a decent commercial shop to be able to fix it. eg. any truck place.

 

The issue of freezup is only something you see in the cheaper RVs. Not an issue at all in the custom trailers ; Spacecraft, Forks, New Horizons. But it certainly needs to be designed in. Not a big deal.

 

Same thing with most of the systems. Pretty easy and well known technology....it is just the expense of doing it "right" is not in the picture for a "build 2000 a year, for under $100K" trailer. The target price of a 45' HDT RV in my mind is right around $200K or under, and that would be a luxury RV with high end fixtures and capabilities. At least that is my current thinking. The infrastructure costs are a good chunk of that.....much more so than in the "flashy" RV industry today.

 

 

Funny, I had this conversation last week. I also put together the business plan and a capable model. I have the infrastructure covered already.

[RoosterBooster]

Jack

to not bend the board rules i was trying to avoid talking too much about eventual business sides

besides that i think my "poor man`s" MDT`ish version would be a one off and only related in construction technique to an eventual available product

 

i hear you on "custom" fabricated parts ...

yes, as older i get the more i look for using/ re-purposing existing parts instead of trying to re-inventing the wheel

most fabricators have also the bad tendency (like most German car manufacturers) to "over-engineer"

and build things with more parts then really needed for its function

 

that is a large part (together with liability) why i like to use things like a ready available and rather simple Ridewell suspension ;

it is designed just like our truck suspensions; commercial duty cycle, virtually no maintenance and nation wide parts availability

 

imho with a little "outside of the box" layout there is not a big issue with the somewhat bulky straight axle and 40" tall tires

 

talking about "Box";

to me it seems the RV pin boxes are getting longer and longer every year ;

 

i kinda see the need for the guys towing with a short bed CC,

but to me this is just ridiculous (as in leverage on the frame as well as aerodynamics and wasted space)

so i plan to build the pin area in a more "semi trailer" style ;

flat kingpin backup plate direct under the nose beams with the pin set back by 3 foot to tuck the trailer close behind the sleeper

this gives me a higher interior height and 3 extra foot of living room without longer overall length

not to mention a drastic reduction in drag, especially in cross-wind.

 

naturally this requires 3 foot radius rounded front corners for swing clearance,

but my desired "vintage look" is asking for that anyway

[Dollytrolley]

Dolly,

 

For our example, if you have time, rerun your numbers with no power wagon in the back (empty garage) and with a 6600# vehicle in the garage and let us know what happens to pin weight, trailer axle weight and truck axle weights.

 

Also a minor modification would be needed to more closely resemble real loading is the vechile in the garage should be split into two axle loads as most vehicles are not equally loaded on each of their axles, Usually more on front axle.

 

One of the other issues with a single axle trailer is how will it handle if you get a flat, currently with our triple axle, we cannot feel it, which is good in one way in that it does not make us lose control of the trailer but does reguire a TPMS.

 

Dave

 

Star & Rooster......

 

So..... Star & Rooster, here is the Rooster-RV-Tee combo numbers after Star re-loads the power wagon (4,200Lbs at Sta 290”)......Plus Two-Thousand-Four-Hundred-Pounds of warm beer into the Power Wagon at Sta 290” as well.....and as we have seen adult-beverage-addiction can have adverse consequences for …...balance......and RV axle loading.....

 

So.......What-IF........ Star programmed the Rooster-Optional-Rear-Axle-RELOCATE-Panel just below the fuzz-buster panel and dialed-the-TEE-Trailer-wheelbase out to........Sta 440”.....what would the “new” weight & balance numbers look like and can we somehow get back to “legal-limits”.....??

 

So....Assume:

 

TEE-Trailer:

Fifth box 102 in W X 108 in H X 480 in L ,

Initial wheelbase 440 in (measured from hitch pin -Datum station 00.0")

Empty Wt 13,000 Lbs @ C G 304.62 inches aft of datum

 

Example TEE-Trailer Loading:

1A; Fresh Water (120 Gal Cap) @ Sta 120” = 1008 Lbs

2A; Fresh Water (40 Gal Cap) @ Sta 190” = 504 Lbs

3A; Grey Water (60 Gal Cap) @ Sta 160” = 504 Lbs

4A; Propane (two 40# ) @ Sta 96” = 110 Lbs

5A; Black Water (60 Gal Cap) @ Sta 158” = 400 Lbs

6A; Cargo bay #1 @ Sta 240” = 500 Lbs

7A; Car garage empty @ Sta 290” = 4,200 Lbs

8A; Warm beer @ Sta 290” = 2,400 Lbs

 

Example loaded Weight & Balance = 22,962 Lbs , C G @ Sta 286.68 Inches aft of hitch and 153.32 ahead of trailer axle, Hitch pin load = 8,001 Lbs and axle load is 14,961 Lbs ( 49 Lbs additional margin remains above axle rated load).

Weight distribution:

Hitch Pin = 28.17%

Trailer axle = 71.83%

 

Diamond Tee Toter:

Assume:

Initial wheelbase 280 in (measured from Steer Axle C L -Datum station 00.0")

Empty Wt 12,000 Lbs @ C G 135.33 inches aft of datum

Empty Weight Distribution : Steer Axle = 6,200 Lbs; 51.67%

Rear Axle = 5,800 Lbs; 48.33%

Example truck loading:

1T; Driver @ Sta 96” = 220 Lbs

2T; Pass @ Sta 96” = 120 Lbs

3T; Sleeper Cargo @ Sta 180” = 350 Lbs

4T; Bed Cargo @ Sta 200” = 75 Lbs

5T; Fuel @ Sta 115” = 600 Lbs

6T ; Trailer Hitch load @ Sta 330' = 8,001 Lbs

 

Example loaded Truck Weight & Balance = 22,962 Lbs , C G @ Sta 207.99 Inches aft of steer axle and 72.01” ahead of rear axle, Hitch pin load = 8,001 Lbs and rear axle load is 15,871 Lbs (1,129 Lbs of rear axle rated load remaining).

Weight distribution:

Steer axle = 25.72% = 5,495 Lbs

Rear axle = 74.28% = 15,871 Lbs

 

Ok Star & Rooster...... with the garage filled with a 4,200 lb WWII Power Wagon loaded with 2,400 Lbs of........warm beer......... (6,600 lbs in garage).... the 15K trailer axle MOVED back to Sta 440” we now have returned back within the rear trailer axle load limits and the Diamond TEE has a pretty hefty hitch pin load but all RV axle loads are now within legal-limits........

 

Disclaimer:.........Whew.......Me thinks it's time for a COLD Beer or Dr. Pepper........

 

Drive on.........(“Legal number” .......are ok numbers)

 

 

 

 

 

[noteven]

Rooster

 

I hear you about keeping the trailer gap close - here are a couple video links to a close-coupled tractor trailer RV - sorry the unit is a bit modern - but similar concept to FTV...it is pretty maneuverable - and short... you give up the off track swing of a trailer hitched way back of the rear axle but you make use of the cab to end of tractor real estate for living space:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KS3F7S95VUand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRbo61h2ow8

 

looking at my "FTV" notes I've jotted down "suspension overinflation valves" which do the opposite of kneeling the truck and trailer - they overinflate the suspension for raising momentarily - like blocking lowbeds when unhooking or cow pots that have pin leg landing gear, or clearing humpy approaches and rr crossings...

 

One thing we like about our C-Force toyhauler is the ground clearance "off road" parking and on those stupid gas station approaches, so my "FTV" notes show a "drop deck" style trailer but it would be able to be raised at low speed for clearance plus have some skid protection for careful grounding when necessary.

[oscarvan]

Did I mention no staples and glued sawdust?

 

I'm in.

 

Been doodling something that looks like a medieval castle for some time now. (Long story) Hydraulically extending turrets....draw bridge..... Steel frame and skin.

Start with a low boy...... Don't single the truck, keep the commercial fifth wheel hitch.

[Jack Mayer]

My design goal is likely different than most of you guys. I want only living quarters - no hauler space at all. And the ability to pair with an HDT carrying a smart. So the "close the gap" goal is good, but not relevant to what I'm doing. Moving the pin to be a straight down pin is a given...but the setback is minimal - 12" is about it. Unlike a typical semi trailer design. For running gear I've been looking at some of the axles sets with air suspension and complete air disc systems on them. Of course you can mix/match this stuff pretty easily....but a standard setup has its advantages.