Tsla&pal Lithium

[Trucken]

What started out as a search for good investment, has turned into a hunt for the Red October.

 

1. Does The 1.2 billion tax incentive to Tesla include the $90 million of road improvements and $40 million for a shortcut to State Rd 50 and 1000 acres of ground?

 

2. Good for Nevada. Mr. Musk says that Tesla will abide by contract with Nevada that 50% of 5600 work force will be Nevada residents. Well almost, General Contractor is out of State.

 

3. This gold rush for lithium in Nevada is confusing. First Lithium contract out of country. Second, tentative agreement with Darjin company to produce lithium, only has a pilot plant and 6000 acres of ground. Third, Nevada's Silver Peak mine already produces Lithium. Simbol, a company that has been producing Li since 2013 and expects production of Lithium to be 15,000 tons this year. Mr Musk is marching to a secret drummer.

 

4. Currently the batteries for the Tesla motor car are being provided by small company in Japan, Panasonic, the 18650s battery pack. Holy Molie, rumor has it Panasonic is considering to invest $1 billion with Tesla.

WTHIGO

 

5. From what I can find one Tesla automobile has 147 pounds of lithium in a 900 pound battery pack. Lithium currently selling for $5000-$6000 a ton, so there is about $500 Worth of lithium in Tesla battery pack, interesting.

 

6. RV's links too, too,too many of Mr Musk dreams of future use of lithium batteries, if true we would be a$$ deep in Lithium batteries in twenty years. Currently lithium batteries are not cost-effective to recycle. Lithium makes up only (3% or 16% depending where you read) of the battery, there is not enough magnesium, copper or cobalt in the battery to justify extraction for recycling. Unlike lead batteries that have reached the 99% recycle rate.

BTW- Lead acid batteries can have upwards of 72 plates, Tesla's batteries have 6000 and up, YIKES!

 

Tesla sends used batteries to TOXCO, a plant for destruction/recycle? Name has a ominous ring to it. DOE has provided 90 million for research to recycle Lithium batteries. BETTER HURRY, mixing Lithium with lead batteries has caused explosions and fires at recycle plant, great surprise. Lithium is explosive when it comes in contact with water and batteries are classed 9 hazardous material.

 

7. Confusing, Mr. Musk is spending $5 billion dollars to reduce the cost of his batteries by 30% or 70% and that is a guess, (and Panasonic wants in) and Lithium is only (3%or 16%) of battery?????

 

8. Currently there are three ways to process Lithium.

Brine/evaporation, slow but cheap, clay/heat, faster but more $$ and hard rock which is too expensive. From Mining.com: there is no efficient substitution for lithium base batteries giving the unparalleled energy density delivered by this chemistry.

 

9.RV-- For some reason I believe you are enamored with tesla---? so for added confusion (which I'm sure you had read by now) Faraday Future has received tax incentives of 73 million or so from Nevada to build a car factory. The EV Faraday Future car, well they don't have a car yet! Elon is a much better wheeler and dealer as compared to Faraday.

 

RV: One question, Solar City (SCTY) is owned by Elon cousin, Lyndon Rives. Elon is CEO with 23% shares, Lyndon with only 3% yet I don't recall much enthusiasm for solar city as with Tesla? By the way solar city 56% of the float is short, tesla 26% of the float is short.

Of no importance, LITHIUM is third element created when a star explodes after hydrogen and helium.

 

PS: Here is a video of changing out a 900 lb battery pack on a Tesla, in 90 seconds, pretty neat.

 

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=90-Second+Tesla+Battery+Change&view=detail&&&mid=5F7A1C24E0771626AF955F7A1C24E0771626AF95&rvsmid=65DEA9F9BAE8D46FE1C265DEA9F9BAE8D46FE1C2&fsscr=-799#view=detail&mid=5F7A1C24E0771626AF955F71C24E0771626AF95

 

PPS: DIY Guy has already stripped a TESLA battery and turned a old Volkswagen bus into an electric vehicle. Maybe there is a future for lithium batteries.

I now know more about Tesla, lithium, mining, battery's and Nevada, than I care to know I'm done.

Trucken

[RV_]

Trucken,

How about doing what I do when I post. One issue at a time, fair use excerpt from the article, and the link for the full story. You're making a lot of confusing posits that sound like they are from either very misinformed agenda carrying sources, or very dated pre 2012/13 Model S production. The Tesla Blog has all the info. For example, today the company formerly known as Toxco is now a partner with Kimbursky Brothers.

 

Excerpt:

 

"KINSBURSKY BROTHERS INC. - A major shareholder in TOXCO, KBI is Located in Anaheim, California. KBI is a large scale battery recycling facility specializing in lead acid, nickel based, silver zinc, and many other types of batteries and precious metals. Contact: Paul Schneider, Marketing Director, Phone: 714-738-8516, e-mail: P.Schneider@Kinsbursky.com or www.Kinsbursky.com"

 

Bottom of this TOXCO page: http://www.toxcommc.com/toxco.html

 

Tesla likely has a few years to develop their own strategy as well because the expected life if the battery pack is 9 - 15 years because with less run time they become useless for driving range but very usable for short burst generator replacements for homes and field use.

 

Their battery use is outlined in the Tesla Blog from 2011. Excerpt:

 

"Tesla's Closed Loop Battery Recycling Program

 

At Tesla we have been refining our recycling program for years. Before sending our battery packs to be recycled we can reuse about 10% of the battery pack (by weight), e.g. the battery case and some electronic components. In North America we work with Kinsbursky Brothers to recycle about 60 percent of the battery pack. In Europe, we recently started working with Umicore, and now that we are selling cars in Japan and the Asia Pacific region, we will soon have news about recycling in Asia.

 

Let’s focus on Tesla’s recycling process with Umicore, which is the first time we’ve been able to use a closed loop recycling system.

 

Umicore’s factory plants are able to recycle our batteries into completely reusable materials and substantially reduce the carbon footprint of manufacturing Lithium-ion batteries.

 

The Umicore battery recycling technology is able to save at least 70 percent on CO2 emissions at the recovery and refining of these valuable metals. It does this by creating “products” and “byproducts,” rather than following a mechanical separation process.

 

“Product” is comprised of an alloy that’s refined into cobalt, nickel and other metals. Traditionally, cobalt is used as a metallic powder to harden tools, or a pigment for ceramics. Umicore has developed a process whereby the cobalt (the highest value material in our batteries) is used to make up LCO (lithium cobalt oxide) that can be resold to battery manufacturers. This is not only an attractive process for Tesla from an environmental aspect, but it also provides a high margin of return. Umicore is one of the largest suppliers of LCO to battery manufacturers."

 

That article can be found here: https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program

 

Insofar as the absence of interest in SCTY (Solar City) I did buy on their drop then sold on their slight pop, and then bought Telsa with it when it dropped down to $125 for a brief period. I did recoup about 1/5 the shares I sold to take my money plus $5k as show profit off the table. I am hoping to see Tesla rise to $300 plus in the next year or two and in time for me to take my profits and buy SpaceX when it goes public. Or not if I am not through with Tesla.

 

I was interested in SCTY because of their radical and sensible new fangled biz plan and methods. However the US market for solar panels is artificially shored up by protective tariffs, which prevents the Chinese from taking over that market here with their panels that are 1/10 the price to end users outside the US. buyer rebates and incentives are also due to expire in late 2016. As well the hostile states' power companies are trying to do the opposite and charge them solar surcharges. When the Powerwall for industry that can take up the task of balancing load centers with demand then they will be on my radar again. That is only my opinion. The tariffs and the active attempts to drive solar down are both facts, not opinion. But I did not follow Musk's cousin for eight years before he brought the major groundbreaking project to fruition, let alone two, counting the Falcon rocket.

 

Rather than take the word of stock writers or other non engineers, some with agendas, none of whom have much access to the man, take a (loooong) read of Tim Urban's Musk and Tesla articles here one of which was the hour or two he spent with Musk: http://waitbutwhy.com/archive

 

Another great source is the blog on Tesla Motors itself.

 

I believe you have a fundamental misunderstanding of Musk and my posts. If you go back to the "Are You Still In" thread here, you'll see where I outlined the Roadster made in England at the Lotus factory to the transition to the US factory, and the intense CAPEX to build a modern plant which was touted as a loss by the ignorant media outlets. Heck even now folks can't tell you the difference between an EV sand a hybrid. I posted about the Roadster debut here and it was called vaporware despite it being put into full production only three months late. Pretty remarkable for a new concept and execution. All I was doing was outlining what he told us his plan was and how long it would take. The problem most folks have is their lifelong conditioning that announcements will rarely happen, and forward plans are only dreams. And for most, I have to agree. Exceptions like Jobs and Gates and Musk are never believed until their noses get rubbed in it.

 

But I am left with a feeling that your public post has a much different tone than your private one.

 

Today the company, and Musk are being exposed to an ever widening audience due to the fact that he executes, not speculates. They are also planning to do a good bit, if not all, their recycling in the Gigafactory, and that was not put forth as a plan yet, but what they are investigating prior to R&D.

 

Let's remember the good guys took a chance on captain, and we had control of the Red October the whole time, and the good guys won. You read the book right?