Length issues?

[noteven]

Phil,

What is the fine for over length in TX? Can you drive on after the ticket?

 

could an enforcement officer have some discretion if a quantity of Dr. Pepper is discovered during a routine equipment check?

[peety3]

Speaking of "Reprosity"

Be conscientious, I comply with my Home State laws regarding length. Then decide it's time to see America and decide in those States that I "may be" to long I travel only on the "National Highway Network". remember Private Citizen, Not for Hire, and Non Commerical. It would seem there would be some form of Reprosity because I would still be in compliance with my Home State licensing and registration laws. See my dilemma with blurred lines.

The game doesn't work that way. States offer reciprocity on licensing of driver and vehicle, as it's supposed to be a union of states and you should be able to freely go from one to another. States do not offer reciprocity on dimensions and weight, as that's a game of physical dimensions, and a state's roads were designed to suit the state's length/weight laws (or vice versa).

 

 

With the near completion of the Interstate Highway system, a network of roads driven at the Federal level and therefore more consistent in design/build, government agreed with the trucking industry that it was the trailer length that mattered for commercial rigs, and that a 53' trailer could more optimally haul typical cargo while remaining within the 40 ton limit for a five-axle tractor-semitrailer combo. The provision was simply that they'd be restricted to a predefined network of roads (those that are built to some standard specification) or only short distances off that network. It's the reason that UPS, Roadway, FedEx, etc. doubles have terminals within a mile or so of the Interstate highways, where they break apart the doubles and deal with them as single pup trailers.

 

Your RV isn't a commercial vehicle, and therefore the commercial rules don't apply. You can make them apply if you go commercial. However, I promise you that your choice of RV parks will dwindle to nearly zero if you go this route, as the scenery a mile off the highway is probably not ideal.

[peety3]

Exactly, I think.....if I depart from the National Network I have to make myself shorter, disconnect the trailer, to comply with some State's length issues.

If you're an RV, you need to comply with the state's length laws when you enter the state, unless you can show that the state will accept commercial laws for non-commercial vehicles on the National Network.

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

Re-read my statement of Right of Access. You have the right to get to a destination regardless of the local regs as long as you used proper access roads to get as close as you can.

 

For example a moving van semi can go into a subdivision even though the access roads are marked No Trucking.

[Larry&Donna-AK]

Thank you for the opinions. You're correct I'll be registered as an RV but that's the Blurred Line. All States Laws conform to the National Highway Network guidelines but when they write laws for the HDT it appears they forget to mention these laws only pertain to "Commercial Use Only". I've read "Large Truck", Truck Tractor" but never read "this law applies only to Commercially Registered Vehicles". I might mention there are all types of Commercially registered vehicles. As one person stated "Size matters" not necessarily the registration. Again, Blurred Lines

[peety3]

Re-read my statement of Right of Access. You have the right to get to a destination regardless of the local regs as long as you used proper access roads to get as close as you can.

 

For example a moving van semi can go into a subdivision even though the access roads are marked No Trucking.

Care to show where the statement of Right of Access is backed up as law? And in the end, what is it that you're arguing? Are you trying to claim that a RV rig that was legal in the last state but is illegal in this state magically becomes legal if you drive on the National Network?

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

On the National Network, virtually all the states have agreed to allow at least 65' RV rigs even if the state laws for non-National Network allow that length. Example: Maryland allows 65" on the National Network and only 55' off of the Network. Maryland Code 24-104.1 Length of Vehicle and Codes Section (m) and subsection (1) and (2) (i) and (ii)

 

 

So from state to state on the National Network at 65' you are legal.

 

Are your arguing that a moving van semi can't make a delivery to a house?

 

There are commercial codes. If you want to use those codes, your get a CDL, a FTA sticker, a log book, and a medical card.

 

If you want to be an RV, then you follow the non-commercial codes.

[Larry&Donna-AK]

Care to show where the statement of Right of Access is backed up as law? And in the end, what is it that you're arguing? Are you trying to claim that a RV rig that was legal in the last state but is illegal in this state magically becomes legal if you drive on the National Network?

No argument... the question becomes are you really illegal if you're driving the same identical "Large Truck" whether your Commercial or Not without regard to vehicle registration. Commerical or Not is an assumption by many because, in my limited research, it appears this qualifier is not written.

[Big5er]

wow, so many questions....

First to Noteven.....probably if the temperature of the Dr. Pepper was cold enough. Hot Dr. Pepper, even in the dead of a Texas winter will score you no points.

 

RickS, the fines are set by each individual court. I have 16 Justice of the Peace courts in my county (Remember, my county is larger than Rhode Island). The max fine is limited for most traffic violations at $500. Being over weight (the truck, not the driver) is based on the amount over gross...up to $10k. That fine is reserved for trucks that are over by more than we weigh total.

 

Jim, you are exactly right. Once you cross the state line, you are subject to the length laws of that state. Some states will allow you to pull three trailkers. Most of them have hubs at the state line so they can drop one trailer before going on. IE (hypothetically if NM allowed 3 trailers then 2 trucks could pull 6 trailers to their yard at the Texas border and then 3 trucks would proceed to take those 6 trailers across Texas which only allows two trailers per combination. That would save a truck for part of the leg, but not all of it. If the dispatcher was good, they might even drop that trailer at its destination before getting to Texas.

 

Larry, length is regulated by the states, on all roads in their states. The feds set a "minimum" for commercial vehicles on the National Network but not non-commercial vehicles, although the states can allow more. Texas and Oklahoma are the only two states that allow (commercially) a 59ft trailer. All the other states are shorter with the federal requirement being 48ft. No state can say that a commercial semi-trailer must be shorter than 48ft. Commercially you can drive that 59ft trailer from Houston to the northern OK border, but don't cross into Kansas or Colorado since they only allow 57ft long trailers.

 

The feds also say:

Trucks or Straight Trucks

Trucks or straight trucks are non-articulated self-propelled cargo-carrying CMVs. They are subject to Federal weight requirements on the Interstate System and Federal width requirements on the NN, but not to Federal length requirements. Vehicle length regulation remains with the States.

Recreational Vehicles

Recreational vehicles are not CMVs subject to Federal size regulations.

Peety3, the Federal Highway Administration (the guys that set the length rules) says "The minimum allowable length limit for the semitrailer in this combination is 14.63 m (48 feet) or the grandfathered limit for a particular State. (See discussion of Grandfathered Semitrailer Lengths on page 3.) A State may not impose an overall vehicle length limit on a truck tractor-semitrailer combination operating on the NN or reasonable access routes" Sorry. It's not quite as broad as Mark says because yes, in certain circumstances I am saying a moving van can not make a delivery but they do have right of access in most situations.

[Big5er]

No argument... the question becomes are you really illegal if you're driving the same identical "Large Truck" whether your Commercial or Not without regard to vehicle registration. Commerical or Not is an assumption by many because, in my limited research, it appears this qualifier is not written.

Larry, it IS written....by each of the states that you want to travel through. There is no grey or assumption....at least not in any state that I have researched and certainly not in Texas.

 

Texas Transportation Code 621.205 – Maximum Length of Vehicle Combinations

(a) Except as provided by this section, a combination of not more than three vehicles, including a truck and semitrailer, truck and trailer, truck-tractor and semitrailer and trailer, or a truck-tractor and two trailers, may be coupled together if the combination of vehicles, other than a truck-tractor combination, is not longer than 65 feet.

That covers every vehicle combination allowed...except a "truck-tractor" and semitrailer combination. And in Texas, a "truck-tractor" is either registered as a commercial vehicle or converted to a "truck" (or motorhome). And for the maximum allowable length of a "truck" and trailer combination, see the blue paragraph above.

[Larry&Donna-AK]

Thanks Big5er...I guess if I grow beyond 65' I'll be at the mercy of the local LEO when I have this conversation with them. Maybe they'll be awe by my delivery. LOL

[Big5er]

Maybe they'll be awe by my delivery. LOL

LOL..they probably will, but take my advice and avoid the west side of Houston. I have this co-worker with a reputation............and he doesn't drink Dr. Pepper.

[Dollytrolley]

 

 

LOL, I can't help but laugh every time I see this silly crap posted. I just laugh in amazement that supposedly intelligent people can come up with this BS. My paycheck does not depend on the number of citations I write. I get paid whether I issue tickets or warnings. I do not make a commission nor do I have a quota. You can bet your ass that I wish I made a commisiosn, cuz I would be like Larry-ak with a 2017 Volvo instead of a 2005. As a matter of fact, due to the fact that I enforce the federal commercial regs, it is stressed (heavily enough that I must document and justify doing otherwise) that I only issue 2 citations and no more than that. Gee how does that work if they are simply trying to create revenue?

Other than possibly some dinky little tiny "Mayberry" type town, most cops on the road are not worried about funding their agency, so where exactly do you two come up with these silly theories?

 

"You are just trying to make your quota!"

 

"Yup, two more tickets today and I get the microwave."

 

Why don't you stick with the facts, rather than your fictitious conspiracy theories? Oh, and BTW: The fact is that in Texas a motorhome/trtailer, truck/trailer or any other non-commercial combination of vehicles can only be 65ft in length no matter what road you are on. The reason that more and more enforcement is occurring on RV's is because more and more of them are very obviously pushing the length limits.

 

 

Phil......Just when I was beginning to think that ..........YOU DID NOT LOVE ME ANYMORE ...........then you blew me some of the above kisses just like........The-Old-Days"..........As in our previous 'Grumpy-Old-Men" ......posts / threads of the past.......I smell the "rotten-carp" that you have "tossed-into -the-condo of the old Dollytrolley........boy oh boy does it feel good to be back in the .....carp-toss again.........

 

You and I have been down several ......post in the past ...... and calling me......"supposedly intelligent people" ........sure made me laugh as well......

 

Phil as you get closer and closer to ........"geezerism" it is good to laugh more and more.........thats the job of ......"supposedly intelligent people"........

 

In my past life I used to find myself.........."close" to folks that did "things' for a "outfit" that had the " I - word" as the "outfits" middle name.......

 

Many of the "folks" from the "I-outfit" seemed to purport to have "High-Intelligence" and as such these "folks' seemed to feel the need to .........Grade......"lesser-folks" with lower-levels of.........."I-word"..........

 

Me.....being at the very "lowest-level-of-the-food-chain" was not a "subject-of-interest" for the most part..........however once I do recall that I was "subject" of a "overview" and I do recall a paragraph where the "I-word" was used and obviously being a "low-level" and having the "I-word" even used casually in a "overview' I became........"somewhat anxious" not expecting ever having anyone ever use the "i-word" related to me........as I recall related to a certain subject the "overview" stated............"subject - Lacks- Intelligence-for-the-matter-at-hand".............

 

So you see Phil, you hit the nail right on the head........even back in the "stone-ages" some "High-I" "folks" confirmed just what you KNOW.......on my best day.......it's likely that my best claim to be just ......."supposedly intelligent"........

 

 

So being considerably less than ........."Intelligent" (guilty as charged)...... perhaps...... it begs me to ask the questions below................

 

QUESTION: IF a law enforcement officer issues a citation.......and.....the " perpetrator" pays the resulting fine.........just where does the money go ? ? ?

 

QUESTION: IF a fine is paid to a government concern.........would that fine "enhance" the funding of.........government? ?

 

QUESTION: IF "revenue-enhancement" is such a taboo-subject.........how much more money will the government have to borrow to.......get-out-of-debit? ?

 

QUESTION: IF.........by chance you do get that Microwave...........what setting do you microwave Dr Pepper at ? ? ?

 

Back to the main subject.........does it not seem UNWISE to have more and more Over-Length RV's on the road each year and NOT expect at some point to be subject to "Enforcement" and maybe potential " unintended-fund-transfers to-government"........

 

 

Ok Phil........crack-open a cold Dr. Pepper and.............flame-me-hot-and-heavy........big-boy......and yes I just did toss the old carp back into your truck.......

 

Drive on........(Low-"I"..........& where is that darn carp)

 

 

 

 

 

[GoldRush]

Define a Competition vs. Non-Competition Horse trailer based on appearance.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Define a Competition vs. Non-Competition Horse trailer based on appearance.

 

Sponsor names on the outside of the trailer, farm name, pretty much any name that might be considered a business. A picture of a horse would be OK but adding XYZ Farms, Waco, Texas under it would make you commercial in the eyes of the law....

[Big5er]

 

 

So being considerably less than ........."Intelligent" (guilty as charged)...... perhaps...... it begs me to ask the questions below................

 

QUESTION: IF a law enforcement officer issues a citation.......and.....the " perpetrator" pays the resulting fine.........just where does the money go ? ? ? Not into my pocket, and I get no more or less based on the number of citations I write so it really matters little to me, but

 

QUESTION: IF a fine is paid to a government concern.........would that fine "enhance" the funding of.........government? ? I would imagine so, but I am betting that taxation and other forms of revenue far outweigh the funds generated through "fines"

 

QUESTION: IF "revenue-enhancement" is such a taboo-subject.........how much more money will the government have to borrow to.......get-out-of-debit? ? Not a taboo subject, just a silly one and I have about as much knowledge of the governments level of debt as I have of yours

 

QUESTION: IF.........by chance you do get that Microwave...........what setting do you microwave Dr Pepper at ? ? ? I once had a very lovely and scantily clad woman serve me a heated Dr. Pepper with lemon. I was more interested in her attire (or lack there of) than her Dr. Pepper heating technique. Maybe I should have paid more attention?. At the time, I thought one was more important than the other. Sadly, since she left me long ago, I chose incorrectly.

 

Back to the main subject.........does it not seem UNWISE to have more and more Over-Length RV's on the road each year and NOT expect at some point to be subject to "Enforcement" and maybe potential " unintended-fund-transfers to-government"........As I have said before, I am assigned "county wide" in a county the size of Rhode Island. They do not tell me what or how many to write. They simply say "go...do something". I have plenty to chose from.

To quote Peety3 "If the officer could find it, THEN the operator had already committed the violation. It's really simple folks: obey the law."

 

BTW: I never said you were less than intelligent. I said I was surprised that a person that I thought was intelligent could come up with such silly stuff.

 

[Big5er]

 

Sponsor names on the outside of the trailer, farm name, pretty much any name that might be considered a business. A picture of a horse would be OK but adding XYZ Farms, Waco, Texas under it would make you commercial in the eyes of the law....

GH, I'm glad you answered the question since I have him set on "ignore" and would have missed it. But you forgot one...although it really doesn't qualify as "appearance" but it is always fun to run the registration on the trailer. Frequently you will find that XZY Farms owns it. That is just one more clue, and if the registered owner is an individual, a quick goggle search (gotta love that aircard and data terminal in the truck) of the owners name along with "racing" or "horse" will turn up tons of info from the track, a magazine, racing club or even their own face book. Print it and attach it to the ticket for the judges opinion. Gee I love the internet

 

You did an excellent job, by the way. That is the beauty of this forum, it is a plethora of knowledge and information. There is always someone ready to help those in need. Of course, for a legal definition I suppose one could contact Texas legislature or the Texas DMV since I only quoted the law. They are the ones that wrote it.

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

For what it is worth, this is how Maryland defines Right of Access:

 

(2) The combination of vehicles exceeding 55 feet but authorized under this subsection may only be operated on:
......(i) Any part of the interstate system or other State system highways that are designated by the Secretary in conjunction with the U.S. Department of Transportation; or
......(ii) A highway that is the shortest practical route between a designated highway and:
............1. A point of origin or destination on a particular day; or
............2. For a distance not to exceed 1 mile, facilities for food, fuel, repairs, or rest.

[rickeieio]

.........thats the job of ......"supposedly intelligent people"........

 

Yesterday, Susan and I hosted a small Christmas party of educated people, even though neither of us has any kind of college experience, other than paying for our kids to go there. Of the 15-20 people there, way over half were phd's, and many were professors.

 

It always amazes me how a person can be so smart, within a very narrow range. A friend, civil engineer and quite successful, refers to them as "educated beyond their intelligence".

 

I seems to me, that most of the folks here have a wide scope of knowledge. I like being here, with my non-degree.

[tyates007]

.........thats the job of ......"supposedly intelligent people"........

 

Yesterday, Susan and I hosted a small Christmas party of educated people, even though neither of us has any kind of college experience, other than paying for our kids to go there. Of the 15-20 people there, way over half were phd's, and many were professors.

 

It always amazes me how a person can be so smart, within a very narrow range. A friend, civil engineer and quite successful, refers to them as "educated beyond their intelligence".

 

I seems to me, that most of the folks here have a wide scope of knowledge. I like being here, with my non-degree.

I like being here as well and have noticed that regardless of the book smart degrees that hang on the wall there are a lot of "working man PhD". These have the ability to provide provide far greater perspective on real life. Thanks to all types of being educated.

[Larry&Donna-AK]

What's crazy is one could possible buy a 48' cargo trailer and convert it to an RV. Possibly the length issue would never be questioned.

[Dollytrolley]

What's crazy is one could possible buy a 48' cargo trailer and convert it to an RV. Possibly the length issue would never be questioned.

 

Larry,

 

Your comment likely gets to the heart of the matter..........IT may NOT be all that bad to be a "reasonable-amount-over-length" .......What is likely to be BAD is to........."Obviously-appear-over-length".........

 

Case in point; look at my post (#2) on this thread regarding the Yuma Prevost / Huge Stacker Trailer ..........just how do you NOT miss the length of a +$800,000 polished stainless RV (matching Prevost stainless trailer).......to tell you the truth the Prevost owner seemed to enjoy the ticket........go figure.

 

DISCLAIMER: The above ramblings are the "remarks" of a "supposedly intelligent geezer"........Do NOT show my remarks to the cop while discussing RV length on the shoulder of the road.........

 

Drive on..........(How long is.......toooooo Looooong)

 

Seems that a lot of folks "hover" around the + - 75 ft RV length with no problems............In fact in Idaho 75 Ft RV is legal as I recall.......

[Big5er]

In fact in Idaho 75 Ft RV is legal as I recall.......

Same with SD, ND and MT. Or try WY with their 85 ft length, just don't go to OR where they say the max length is 50ft.

 

I know many on here that are over length, one is even pushing 80+ ft. I also know of 2 that have been cited for over length, one in Texas for 68ft. Are our trucks "capable" of towing larger trailers? Sure. Is it legal? No. Will you get stopped and cited? The odds are in your favor that you won't. Is it worth the risk to you? That's the million dollar question, isn't it?

[Larry&Donna-AK]

When I was very young on my first duck hunt; I saw a bird swimming and asked is that a duck? The old man answered: "Nope, that's just a Crazy Old Loon swimming in the same pond."

[sclord2002]

Dollytrolley and Big5er,

I have to respect people who can handle disagreement without being disagreeable. I find myself wanting to disagree with you.... just to see how you would reply, but ,alas, I find no point of disagreement at present. in the future, if I can find a subject, thought or idea to disagree on, I may challenge you to a duel of wits....provided you will engage an unarmed opponent. There is a wealth of knowledge and opinions available on this forum and with all the interaction there are bound to be differences of opinions, sometimes strong ones, but I appreciate the manner in which most members handle said controversy and move on to other things. I appreciate all the forum members knowledge and experience and want to learn all I can from these perspectives and experiences. All of that being said, I just want both of you to know that i appreciate the way you two handle things when you have different perspectives on them. Your posts are witty and barbed, but not insulting, and, to me, anyway, entertaining and informative. I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this way and just want to say" thank you" to both of you, and others, who contribute so much to this forum and make it so enjoyable. I hope to be able to meet both of you one day. Continue on...........(with the spirited exchange of ideas). Be safe, Charlie