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Residential Refrigerator Upgrade


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You do have to allow for some venting for the residential fridge, but "most" of them handle that well themselves by venting out the front/bottom. That is fairly typical these days. No other venting is required for those that do this. IF they vent out the back then you do have to accommodate "some" venting, either on the side of the refrigerator or on the top. You need some way to get that heat away from the fridge.

 

I DO NOT recommend a modified sine wave inverter....even if your fridge manufacturer says it is OK. As far as I know, none of them currently do - Samsung used to say it was OK but changed that in the last 2 years. For a reason. They were having some failures. Probably not because of the MSW but who knows. The point is - why risk it. A good PSW inverter is not all that much more.

 

There is no real reason not to run the fridge off the inverter all the time. Eventually the inverter may "die", but that could take years. Or never. I've had some small PSW inverters in continuous use for 5+ years in a remote communications application. They do just fine. But as I said before - expect failure and make sure you wire so it is easy to replace them, and/or use shore power while they are being repaired.

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My 25cf residential uses about 100-105 Ah DC per 24 hours. In actual measured use. You can take measures to reduce that by not having automatic defrost active.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
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In my opinion if I was building my own or even rebuilding, I would go with a residential refrig as they are quite a bit cheaper than a RV style. The inverter would be needed but it can serve more purposes than just the refrig. I have not compared on demand water heaters but I would probably just use the RV propane one as our current one does not use much propane. I haven't checked but i would think the amps for the on demand water heaters might take a bit much which would mean upsizing electrical equipment to handle it if no shore power is available. I would like to go to an electric ignition version as it can be a pain to light the pilot. Not sure what options are available to replace an RV furnace so would probably just stick with that and use ceramic heaters when shore power is available to supplement.

Dave

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So if your building a lower end coach. That means open to lower cost solar if that's possible and do a lot of dry camping. With technology changing do you stay with the propane RV refrigerator and propane hot water heater and furnace? Or go with on demand hot water and a residential refrigerator ?

On lower end build I would use a residential fridge, a standard 10-12 gallon water propane water heater (or smaller, depending on your needs), and a standard RV propane furnace. The furnace and water heater are inexpensive and basically commodity products that are easily repaired or replaced. Unless you decide to eliminate propane all together that is what I would do.

 

If I wanted to enhance the system, and thought I had the demand, then I'd put in a Truma AquaGo continuous hot water system. These work very well and have none of the "faults" that you hear about continuous water heaters. They work on propane. But they are relatively expensive and do not fit the "lower end" definition.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
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You do have to allow for some venting for the residential fridge, but "most" of them handle that well themselves by venting out the front/bottom. That is fairly typical these days. No other venting is required for those that do this. IF they vent out the back then you do have to accommodate "some" venting, either on the side of the refrigerator or on the top. You need some way to get that heat away from the fridge.

 

I DO NOT recommend a modified sine wave inverter....even if your fridge manufacturer says it is OK. As far as I know, none of them currently do - Samsung used to say it was OK but changed that in the last 2 years. For a reason. They were having some failures. Probably not because of the MSW but who knows. The point is - why risk it. A good PSW inverter is not all that much more.

 

There is no real reason not to run the fridge off the inverter all the time. Eventually the inverter may "die", but that could take years. Or never. I've had some small PSW inverters in continuous use for 5+ years in a remote communications application. They do just fine. But as I said before - expect failure and make sure you wire so it is easy to replace them, and/or use shore power while they are being repaired.

 

Many good points to consider.....

 

When I first responded to a RV propane thread many moons ago and mentioned that I had searched high and low for a residential to our propane fridge the responses to my posts seemed to fall into JUST two "Camps"..........camp # 1 LOVED their RV propane fridges..........AND.....camp#2 HATED their RV propane fridges....

 

I think I might have "kicked-a-hornets-nest" in both camps in that many in camp# 1 "believe" that the only "real-RV-fridge" is a propane fridge........and then........the folks in camp #2 seemed to be a "bit-uptight" that I had to search and sort through a lot of residential models before I found a make and model that was rated for the high and low ambient temperatures encountered in RV environments.......

 

SOME residential fridges are equipped with a ambient "kill-switch" that actually kills the power to the fridge IF and WHEN the ambient temperatures rise above OR fall below the "interior-temp-norms for residential habitation".......so these "KILL-SWITCH-FRIDGES" turn off above 90f and also turn off below 50f.........this seemed to me to not be acceptable for the RV environments.........so......I resorted back to my "previous-life-of-information-harvesting" and started grilling fridge repair techs and the gleaned-info was .........as clear as Mud.......

 

It seems that some fridges DO have the kill-switch and it shuts off when the "on-band-temps" are "out-of-range" .......some of the other fridges without the kill-switch and the economy-size-compressor units try to carry the exceeded-loads and often fail.......so say the techs.....

 

So.........here is the deal.........a fairly large percentage of whats wrong in the world today can often be traced directly or....."indirectly"....to me....yes indeed guilty as charged.......HOWEVER......I have never been involved with the design / build of any fridge whatsoever........

Now that I have come "somewhat-clean"........I will grudgingly admit to........."Fridge-Abuse" in that I have traveled hundreds of miles with the fridge door NOT locked and swinging wildly.....guilty as charged.....

 

In my "unsavory-youth" I hung around other "unsavory-folks" and some of these folks are still alive and at times seem to talk me into some "unsavory-situations" so in my fridge life I have become involved in "chronic-fridge-gambling"........ old-timer VFD drive geek has bet me that a cheap mod-wave-inverter will not harm the fridge compressor at all in two years..... SO....if in two years of operation the fridge fails, the VFD-geek will buy me a new fridge AND pay in CASH to me 50% of the price of a new fridge as well.........If the fridge does NOT fail I pay 50% so.........such is what bored fridge-VFD-geezers do.......

 

So children.........do NOT...... do as I do regarding the poor selection of a fridge inverter........(however does anyone want in on a side-bet)......

 

So far it looks like I might NOT win this bet because the fridge shows no distress signs .......Yet........but the real "potential-problem' here is that the fridge makes it Two-years and I have to pay up my gambling debt and then the very next day the fridge dies........such is the "life" of a "high-stakes-low-life-gambler".........I'll really lose IF the Dolly-momma finds out about my fridge-abuse......

 

Actually there is a "higher-goal" to the "fridge-abuse" and the point is that the VFD-geek did a couple scope test on the fridge with shore power and then the mod-wave inverter and he seemed content that the power conditioning of the fridge electronics mitigated the 'dirty-power"......somewhat.......

 

In the mean time I am saving my nickels to "pay-off-the-fridge-hedge" ...........the real worry is........IF the fridge fails and I get a "free" new fridge and a pocket full of $$$ ........just imagine all of the trouble I can get into with all that cash.......

 

In the mean time I would highly recommend that the "Safe-bet" would to power the fridge with a high-quality pure-wave inverter and then you will have hard ice cream every day.....thats a smart bet.......

 

As I recall over the years the only inverter failures I have had was one when a freak-wave "intruded" into a tug-wheel house and the salt-water did not treat the inverter kindly...........the other inverter was a 400 hz aircraft inverter that did not seem very happy with multi-lighting-strikes.......(don't ask who the moron was that drove the bird into the thunder-bumper).

 

It seems to me that if you keep the inverter dry and limit the lighting-strikes they seem to just work pretty much as advertised......

 

Drive on...........(Hard ice cream is........good)

97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S

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Jack, I was more asking about sealing off the large plastic vents to the outside. I know we need to allow venting of the fridge to the inside of the rig, just as a residential fridge in a "sticks and bricks" has ventilation around it into the kitchen. But, I'm pretty sure we're going to want to seal off those large vents to the outside that are needed for a propane fridge.

 

I seem to remember reading somewhere that an inverter shouldn't be mounted adjacent to the batteries? Can't remember where I read that and don't remember the reasoning. My battery compartment has two deep cycle 12v batteries for household. These are enclosed in white plastic boxes that have vent pipes to the outside. There is also the transfer switch and an Iota 45 amp converter/charger in there. Any thoughts on mounting the inverter in there too? Or should I mount that in the cabinet in the bedroom above?

'03 United Specialties truck conversion, Freightliner FL112, Cat C12, 10 sp Autoshift, 295" w/b, 26' living quarters.

 

St. Paul, MN

 

www.bobwinsor.com

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With all these issues, I am glad I solved it by ordering a motorhome with the household refrigerator as standard equipment, including extra batteries and the 2000 watt Magnum inverter.

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Jack, I was more asking about sealing off the large plastic vents to the outside. I know we need to allow venting of the fridge to the inside of the rig, just as a residential fridge in a "sticks and bricks" has ventilation around it into the kitchen. But, I'm pretty sure we're going to want to seal off those large vents to the outside that are needed for a propane fridge.

 

I seem to remember reading somewhere that an inverter shouldn't be mounted adjacent to the batteries? Can't remember where I read that and don't remember the reasoning. My battery compartment has two deep cycle 12v batteries for household. These are enclosed in white plastic boxes that have vent pipes to the outside. There is also the transfer switch and an Iota 45 amp converter/charger in there. Any thoughts on mounting the inverter in there too? Or should I mount that in the cabinet in the bedroom above?

 

Bob, that's the RVIA LVS standard at work. No "spark or flame producing" stuff can be in the compartment with the batteries, which would even include things like a typical shut-off switch. It also requires battery compartments to be vented to the outside. Both requirements are based on the fact that lead acid batteries can release hydrogen gas, and the manufacturer has no control over whether you replace your batteries with vented, AGM, etc.

 

But on re-read, it looks like your batteries are already in closed, vented boxes of their own. I wouldn't hesitate to have an inverter in that bay--if nothing else you've already got the converter and transfer switch to burn off the hydrogen.

45' 2004 Showhauler -- VNL300, ISX, FreedomLine -- RVnerds.com -- where I've started to write about what I'm up to

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Jack, I was more asking about sealing off the large plastic vents to the outside. I know we need to allow venting of the fridge to the inside of the rig, just as a residential fridge in a "sticks and bricks" has ventilation around it into the kitchen. But, I'm pretty sure we're going to want to seal off those large vents to the outside that are needed for a propane fridge.

 

I seem to remember reading somewhere that an inverter shouldn't be mounted adjacent to the batteries? Can't remember where I read that and don't remember the reasoning. My battery compartment has two deep cycle 12v batteries for household. These are enclosed in white plastic boxes that have vent pipes to the outside. There is also the transfer switch and an Iota 45 amp converter/charger in there. Any thoughts on mounting the inverter in there too? Or should I mount that in the cabinet in the bedroom above?

An easy way to seal off vents is to have a decal or car wrap firm wrap the vent then clip it back on.

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What David said is my response as well. As long as your batteries are sealed in a case - no issue putting an inverter in the same compartment. Or anything else.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com

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  • 3 weeks later...

Started my conversion. Got my Norcold N841 propane unit all unscrewed and disconnected (gotta have somebody help me carry it out of the rig). Ordered a Frigidaire FFTR1222QB from Home Depot. Ordered a Xantrex 600 watt pure sine wave inverter, cable kit, fuse kit, and the automatic transfer switch ( http://www.donrowe.com/Xantrex-808-0915-PROwatt-SW-Transfer-Switch-p/808-0915.htm ). I'm going to install the inverter in a cabinet in the bedroom, directly above the coach battery compartment. I decided I want the ability to easily switch between shore power and inverter power for the fridge. Often I like to shut off my converter/charger (Iota) so that I can exercise the coach batteries while plugged into shore power. Since I'm putting the inverter in the bedroom I might not want it running at night making fan noise so having the transfer switch should be good too. Also figure that having it in that cabinet will make it easy to keep the door open for ventilation when running down the road. If I were to mount it in the lower storage compartment it wouldn't get much air.

 

Gotta decide the best way to seal up the vent from the propane fridge up on the roof. I'm thinking maybe carefully filling it with spray foam? Another thought might be to take a piece of rigid pink foam board and glue it up there on the underside of the roof vent. Problem with that is I'm wondering about rain getting in there if I don't somehow seal up that roof vent. I think whatever I do I don't want to make it non-reversible. Just in case I, or some future owner, would want to go propane again. That's why I'm hesitant to remove the roof vent cap and somehow block off the opening. But maybe that would be best?

'03 United Specialties truck conversion, Freightliner FL112, Cat C12, 10 sp Autoshift, 295" w/b, 26' living quarters.

 

St. Paul, MN

 

www.bobwinsor.com

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I'm thinking I'll unhook the gas line from the manifold near my propane tank and cap that opening on the manifold. Then just leave the copper gas line in place. Maybe put a rubber cap on both ends to keep it clean in case it's needed some day.

'03 United Specialties truck conversion, Freightliner FL112, Cat C12, 10 sp Autoshift, 295" w/b, 26' living quarters.

 

St. Paul, MN

 

www.bobwinsor.com

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Bob. You may have it all worked out with the specs on the inverter And all might be fine. A friend and I installed similar fridges in our fivers around the same time. I used a Zantrax PSW 1000wt and he used a 600wt same model inverter.

 

He found on strart up the 600 tripped out. Had to buy a 1000.

 

You may be fine with this, but this is just what he had happen.

 

Good luck on the rest of the install. You will love it.

Bill and Joan and 3 Collie pups

2001 Volvo VNL 770 "The Doghouse" Singled short, "ET" hItch VED12 465HP Gen 1 Autoshift 3.58 ratio  2005 Mobile Suite 38RL3  2011 Smart Passion loaded piggybacK

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I'm going by Dollytrolly's post #2 in this thread. He said he's using the same fridge I ordered. And he's using a modified sine wave 400 watt inverter. Figured a pure sine wave 600 watt unit should work. Billr, is this Frigidaire unit that I'm putting in the same one that he couldn't use on the 600 watt inverter? Frigidaire FFTR1222QB?

'03 United Specialties truck conversion, Freightliner FL112, Cat C12, 10 sp Autoshift, 295" w/b, 26' living quarters.

 

St. Paul, MN

 

www.bobwinsor.com

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Hey Bob. Sorry if I misled you here. I meant similar fridges size wise. Ours are Whirpool 10.4cuft units.

 

What I have seen though is in most units new from manufactures that have a dedicated inverter are 1000wr units. But the fridges may be larger too.

 

Hey if you run into issues you can swap it out.

 

All the best.

Bill and Joan and 3 Collie pups

2001 Volvo VNL 770 "The Doghouse" Singled short, "ET" hItch VED12 465HP Gen 1 Autoshift 3.58 ratio  2005 Mobile Suite 38RL3  2011 Smart Passion loaded piggybacK

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I'm going by Dollytrolly's post #2 in this thread. He said he's using the same fridge I ordered. And he's using a modified sine wave 400 watt inverter. Figured a pure sine wave 600 watt unit should work. Billr, is this Frigidaire unit that I'm putting in the same one that he couldn't use on the 600 watt inverter? Frigidaire FFTR1222QB?

 

Bob,

 

I would imagine you will likely be as happy with your new fridge as we have been........HOWEVER........PLEASE read my post #58 on this thread regarding my GAMBLE / BETTING with my VFD geek friend so it's obvious that my Low-grade-Small-Capacity-Inverter is NOT a good choice for 'NORMAL-People...........So you are indeed correct to utilize a pure-sine-wave-inverter and will likely be fine at 600W but we already had the 400W mod-wave-inverter so it got to be a "Game-of-electrical-"chicken" between me and my VFD geek friend.......

 

Like I said......Children do NOT try this at home ..............

 

So far are "Fridge -abuse is still keeping the Ice Cream hard and the adult beverages cool so.......life is OK........

 

Drive on......(Enjoy the hard ice cream....)

97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S

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  • 2 months later...

 

But back to the refrigerator discussion, and knowing I'm going to be changing my house battery setup a few times and that it'll be on and off quite a bit while I'm tinkering, I've switched the refrigerator over to its own inverter, running on what's left of the old 12V system. It's just a 200W PSW inverter, and does the job fine off of the circuit that fed the old RV fridge control board. My power meter shows a peak of about 150W when the compressor cycles on, and that's without any soft starting--just a mechanical switch.

Is this possible? I just finished installing my 600 watt pure sine wave Xantrex inverter. Used 4 gauge wire, 8 of wire' from house batteries to inverter. The inverter cuts off and shows the overload error code when the 11.5 cubic foot Frigidaire tries to start up the motor. It first shows the wattage starting to come up on the display and then cuts off. I think I need a bigger inverter. How can you run yours on a 200 watt inverter?

'03 United Specialties truck conversion, Freightliner FL112, Cat C12, 10 sp Autoshift, 295" w/b, 26' living quarters.

 

St. Paul, MN

 

www.bobwinsor.com

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I have won my bet with the old 400 Watt MSW inverter and I am retiring it and replacing it with a 2000 MSW that I have so I can run the fridge and other "stuff".

 

Like I said I was sledding on thin ice (no pun intended) so now I am hedging my bets for the future (Now with a bigger inverter I will likely overload it and then shut down the fridge without knowing......such is what happens when fix something thats not broke........yet).

 

Bob only thing I can think of is that I pulled huge 02 size thin strand copper welder cable to the inverter because I knew some day I would install a 2KW inverter and I have to have the big cable then......could the big cable have saved my bacon??.........Maybe the cheap old inverter was running on the ragged edge or maybe a better inverter than I gave it credit........

 

Drive on........(Enjoy cold.....fridge)

97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S

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I'm curious how big the start capacitor is on your fridge (good chance it doesn't have one). You might consider something like this to help it out. If that does the job, it's a whole lot cheaper than a bigger inverter or monster wiring.

45' 2004 Showhauler -- VNL300, ISX, FreedomLine -- RVnerds.com -- where I've started to write about what I'm up to

Headlight and Fog Light Upgrades http://deepspacelighting.com

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