SuiteSuccess Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 My shore power cord for the trailer needs a new plug which I have purchased. Just want to be sure I do this absolutely correct. I know the green wire is ground and white is neutral and go to respective top and bottom sites. Question is does red (hot) go to x plug or y plug to maintain proper phase. Black(hot) will go to other. This is the plug I have. 2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding" 2017 DRV 39DBRS3 2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty" "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronbo Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 It doesn't matter. They will be phased properly either way. Ron C. 2013 Dynamax Trilogy 3850 D3 2000 Kenworth T2000 Optimus Prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuiteSuccess Posted September 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 Thanks Ron. Just wanted to be sure. 2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding" 2017 DRV 39DBRS3 2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty" "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray.service Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 It will determine which is L1 and L2 on any power monitor you might be using. Ray & Deb - Shelbi the Aussie & Lexington the cat2004 Volvo 630 500HP ISX "Bertha D" - 10 Speed-MaxBrake -ET hitch.SOLD2009 Designer 35RLSA SOLDFulltiming since '07 - stopped 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuiteSuccess Posted September 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 It will determine which is L1 and L2 on any power monitor you might be using. Understand, thanks. 2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding" 2017 DRV 39DBRS3 2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty" "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyA Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 Agree - which red or black wire goes to X or Y makes no difference. Just as an added comment for anyone not totally familiar with RV supply wiring: A 50 amp supply is really a 100 amp supply when compared to a conventional 30 amp supply thus providing 70 additional amps to the camper. This is why I always refer to it as a 50-50 amp supply. The 50-50 amp supply is really a 240 volt supply (measure between the red and black and you should get 240 volts) with a neutral so that you have two 50 amp 120 volt circuits in your camper. Carl mentioned maintaining the proper phase. While the 240 volt feed in campgrounds is known as a single phase, there is a 180 degree phase differential between X and neutral and Y and neutral. But, the differential is not an issue when connecting a new plug. Sorry - it is extremely hard for me to give a simple one word answer after teaching this stuff for most of my professional life. The WHY was always expected with an answer . Randy, Nancy and Oscar "The Great White" - 2004 Volvo VNL670, D12, 10-speed, converted to single axle pulling a Keystone Cambridge 5th wheel, 40', 4 slides and about 19,000# with empty tanks. ARS - WB4BZX, Electrical Engineer, Master Electrician, D.Ed., Professor Emeritus - Happily Retired! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSeas Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 I am one of those folks.. Need to know the "how" & "why"! Love your explainations Please don't change a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuiteSuccess Posted September 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 I am one of those folks.. Need to know the "how" & "why"! Love your explainations Please don't change a thing! Absolutely X2! 2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding" 2017 DRV 39DBRS3 2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty" "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDirectionHome Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 X3... When you're a mechanical engineer, guys like you are priceless. "There are No Experts, Do the Math!" 2014 Freightliner Cascadia DD16 600hp 1850ft-lb 18spd 3.31 260"wb SpaceCraft S-470 SKP #131740 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDirectionHome Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 RandyA See that's what I mean. How do you get two legs of 120V equaling 208V 3phase? BTW, has anyone ever really seen an electron? "There are No Experts, Do the Math!" 2014 Freightliner Cascadia DD16 600hp 1850ft-lb 18spd 3.31 260"wb SpaceCraft S-470 SKP #131740 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sclord2002 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 I saw an Electron once....it was made by Buick.....or maybe it was an Electra. Either way I saw one and have felt them, too. When i felt them, I saw stars and was nervous for a couple of days......the fillings in my teeth also hurt. Be safe, Charlie Don't ever tell a soldier that he doesn't understand the cost of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuiteSuccess Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Charlie, That was the 1960's and I don't think it was electrons that made you see stars and your teeth hurt! As an aside the Buick Electra was named for Electra Biggs Waggoner who lived in Vernon, Texas the town where I was raised. 2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding" 2017 DRV 39DBRS3 2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty" "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sclord2002 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 In one of my former lives, we used either 2 phases of a wye-connected three phase system or 220 single phase , which ever the customer provided for us. The only way we could tell 3 phase wye-connected from single phase was that single phase line to line was the sum of the 2 legs and 3 phase wye-connected line to line was less than the sum of the two legs. Each had 2 hots, a ground and a neutral. I once arrived after an electrician had wired the recepticle with true 3 phase and the customer leaked all the smoke out of our equipment in short order...it did not like having 3 hot legs at all. I surely would not want to hook up my camper to that. I have run across a couple of park outlets that were wired with L1 and L2 off of the same wire, so L1 to ground and neutral was 120, L2 to ground and neutral was 120 volts and L1 to L2 was also 120 volts. Campground pedestals can have some wierd connections in them. Charlie Don't ever tell a soldier that he doesn't understand the cost of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronbo Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 If L1 and L2 were connected to the same wire. L1 to L2 world be 0 volts. Ron C. 2013 Dynamax Trilogy 3850 D3 2000 Kenworth T2000 Optimus Prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cochran Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Stekay - think of it as a circle. single phase is the 2 poles (phases) at opposite sides of the circle. 3 phase is the same circle divided into 3 parts 120 deg apart. You do the old trig thing -- 120 volt (one leg) * square root of 3 (1.732) and 208 between all the phases. LOL - Don't even try to think of wild legs, open deltas and a host of other transformer configurations. Books have been written and courses taught. Your exactly correct on this and is why in the three phase 120/208 they are called phases. The single phase 120/240 the are called lines as in L1 and L2. Luckily we don't use 240 rated things in our RV's usually. Putting 208 on a resistance device such as a heater makes no deference other than 208 heats a little slower than 240 volt. Now on a motor it could make and does make some difference. There is by code a plus or minus voltage above and below the rated nameplate motor voltage of 10% as I recall been a long time. Now if you put 240 volt on a 208 rated motor it is with in the plus 10% and the same on the low side when putting 208 on a 240 volt nameplate motor. I won't say who but there are motor manufacturers who sell 208 and 240 volt motor which are in fact the same motor with different nameplates they was all 208 volt motors(cheaper to manufacturer). I was doing a study at the time on how much the electric utility could reduce voltage for power reduction during emergencies without damaging customer equipment. Now we felt we could do a 10% reduction and would still be providing voltage within national guidelines. As you can see if the utility did a 10% reduction from their nominal those motors basically with false nameplates would be damaged. The question became who would pay to replace the motors and some are high horsepower and high cost motors. Lot of legal discussions; the motor manufactures would be and where held responsible. There was other problems but none germane to this discussion. I have a feeling a lot of people here like me lived, breathed and even taught this stuff and it can get really involved. Won't even go into efficiency, power factor, harmonics gee-sh the topics can be endless. Bottom line makes know difference which hot leg you connect to L1 and L2. Just don't accidentally put one on the neutral or ground!!!!!!! 2019 Thor Chateau 28E on a Ford E450 chassis. Maybe awhile but will get a new picture forgive one up there it is my old rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billr Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 We have 3 phase 208V on our park and had one guy that had a monitor system in his MH go nuts as it was looking for 220-240V Try to tell him all is OK ??? Good thing is most units don't look at that reading Bill and Joan and 3 Collie pups 2001 Volvo VNL 770 "The Doghouse" Singled short, "ET" hItch VED12 465HP Gen 1 Autoshift 3.58 ratio 2005 Mobile Suite 38RL3 2011 Smart Passion loaded piggybacK Weigh-It Portable RV Scales http://www.weighitrv.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sclord2002 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Ronbo, you are absolutely correct on the 0 volts. It has been a long time since I had to mess with that stuff and my memory ain't what it should be. I do remember that it could sometimes make me scratch my head, though. Thanks for the correction. Charlie Don't ever tell a soldier that he doesn't understand the cost of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyA Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Like Bill said, "3 phase is the same circle divided into 3 parts 120 deg apart. You do the old trig thing -- 120 volt (one leg) * square root of 3 (1.732) and 208 between all the phases." Except, when you have 3 phase wye with a neutral you also have three 120 volt circuits serving the CG power pedestals rather than the two you find with 240 single phase using a neutral. The electrician or engineer that designs the CG distribution system will do it in a manner that evenly distributes or balances the loads between phases. When colored wire insulation is used we typically find a 4th conductor that is blue. For a CG and our typical 50-50 amp power it won't make a diddley-squat whether there is a 180 or 120 differential between red to neutral and black to neutral . Some plugs will be fed by white, blue and either red or black. What is important is the type of outlet in the CG power pedestal and if it is wired according to Code. Now, if someone with one of those big bus motor-homes hooks up with two 50-50 amp cords and one of the two is set-up to provide what would be a typical single phase 240 volt feed they are not going to find what some fancy monitor thinks it should see. 3 phase 208 VAC wye is, as noted, the standard for low end industrial/commercial areas and certain apartment complexes. If a CG is located in or near one of these areas it will most likely be served by 3 phase wye power system. Conversely, if it i in a rural or all residential area it will most likely be served by single phase lines. Cheeze - simple question threads always seem to evolve as they grow. All Carl wanted to know is if it made a difference whether red or black went to X or Y. Now look where we are and it is still growing. I've observed some totally inadequate, unsafe, jury rigged wiring run to RV plug-in's, both 30 and 50 amp - I assume to satisfy customers who only look to see if the plug fits and leave it at that. In most instances they get away with it unless the customer is running two big air conditioners, a microwave, electric water heater, electric dryer and other everyday powered gear. If the circuit breaker doesn't trip the wiring and the outlet get extremely hot and RV power plugs can melt - which is often the reason for having to replace a plug on the RV power cord. Below are some examples of "plug melter's" Oh, and Charlie...... that wasn't your head I saw you scratchin' :) Two 30 amp outlets on the same pole with no disconnect or covers. Wiring was #12AWG and a 50 amp outlet on the next pole was bridged. At one time the outlet was probably a 20, then replaced by a 30 and finally by a 50 with no improvements to the supply. Yes, this is an active site and that is a 30 amp outlet which, incidentally, was looped over to another similar outlet on the site next door. This one has a 40 amp breaker with #12AWG feed wire (rated 20 amps) going to a 50 amp outlet.. Note both the neutral and grounding wire are bonded in the pedestal box which is in violation of codes for the place where the photo was taken. (yes, I took the cover off the box.) Randy, Nancy and Oscar "The Great White" - 2004 Volvo VNL670, D12, 10-speed, converted to single axle pulling a Keystone Cambridge 5th wheel, 40', 4 slides and about 19,000# with empty tanks. ARS - WB4BZX, Electrical Engineer, Master Electrician, D.Ed., Professor Emeritus - Happily Retired! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Randy, those are great pictures!! I can not tell you how may "issues" caused by things like that I have addressed in the 15 years we have been fulltiming. It is simply amazing to me what campgrounds have in them for power. I find it quite "interesting". At least here (at Diamond) we now have a power distribution system that is pretty good. It has taken 10 years to get it fully repowered. I'm putting in the last of the metered 50-50 service (as you call it) right now....in fact the last six pedestals go in this afternoon. Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member Living on the road since 2000PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail 2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it) 2022 New Horizons 43' 5er 2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units 2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck -------------------------------------------------------------------------See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar powerwww.jackdanmayer.com Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ms60ocb Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 I have run across a couple of park outlets that were wired with L1 and L2 off of the same wire, so L1 to ground and neutral was 120, L2 to ground and neutral was 120 volts and L1 to L2 was also 120 volts. Campground pedestals can have some wierd connections in them. Charlie If L1 and L2 were connected to the same wire. L1 to L2 world be 0 volts. This would be a True 50-50 amp condition. That would be a real good way to melt a power cord or plug. If you tried to load both L1 and L2 to 50 amps each that would result in 100 amps in the neutral (White) wire. The only protection would be melting or possibly a low L1 or L2 voltage if so equipped with a power management system. As mentioned previously L1 and L2 should 180 degrees phase separated (120 degrees on 120-208 Volt system), this would result in currents near zero on the neutral wire for balanced loads. Clay & Marcie Too old to play in the snow Diesel pusher and previously 2 FW and small Class C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyA Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'm putting in the last of the metered 50-50 service (as you call it) right now....in fact the last six pedestals go in this afternoon. Jack, I hope you and other readers recognize why I am calling it a 50-50 service - we do not use 240 volts in our rigs. It is one center tapped buss fitted with one 50 amp 240 volt service breaker via a tie bar In fact, the outlet and service is identical to the 50 amp 4-wire outlet used by residential electric ranges. The 50-50 nomenclature was only used to emphasize that we use TWO 50 amp 120 volt circuits equaling 100 amps @ 120 volts while a 30 amp TT outlet is a single 30 amp 120 volt outlet. I am not sure why the 50 amp standard was adopted at the time of inception rather than the (then existing) 60 amp mobile home standard or even a lower amperage dual feed value like 30-30 amp which could have saved mucho $$$ in copper or aluminum triplex cables. Anyway, I am glad that they did as one of today's rigs would be hurting for power with all of our bells and whistles, One more comment though - I would hate to think of trying to roll up a 34 foot, 60 amp power cord with thermoplastic insulation. I needed a pipe bender for a 50 amp 4-wire thermoplastic jacketed cable in cold weather - a rather daunting task for an old man, I quickly configured the OEM thermoplastic for an occasional use extension cord and adopted a nice rubber jacketed SOOW class cord for daily use. Much more bendable and lighter in weight thought somewhat more susceptible to damage from abuse. Getting an OEM thermoplastic cord attached to one of the plugs Carl showed is a somewhat frustrating to impossible experience. It is a whole lot easier with SOOW cord. Gotta go, I have an electron associated with a hurricane knocking at my door. I need to batten down the hatches around the ranch before it hits . Randy, Nancy and Oscar "The Great White" - 2004 Volvo VNL670, D12, 10-speed, converted to single axle pulling a Keystone Cambridge 5th wheel, 40', 4 slides and about 19,000# with empty tanks. ARS - WB4BZX, Electrical Engineer, Master Electrician, D.Ed., Professor Emeritus - Happily Retired! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuiteSuccess Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Randy, Stay safe my friend. 2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding" 2017 DRV 39DBRS3 2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty" "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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