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What are these new Hybird Inverter/ Chargers?


stevekk

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Like the Magnum MSH3012 3000 watt...2000 bucks on Amazon.

Over at the Good Sam Forum they are talking about a 1000 watt Honda Gen powering a 13.5K AC, using one of the new inverters.

To good to be true or will they really work?

In laymans terms please.

Thanks.

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Best thing since buttered bread, IMO. Essentially they act as both a charger and an inverter at the same time. Normally an inverter passes through the 120V power from shore power to your outlets etc. Whatever power is left over is used for charging your batteries. The inverter is turned off. If those loads exceed the incoming power, they drop the incoming power and supply all the power from the batteries by way of the inverter. Basically, it is either a charger or an inverter, but not both at the same time.

 

The hybred models allow it do do both at the same time. If the amount of power being used is less than the power being supplied from shore power, whatever is left over is used to charge the batteries. If the amount being used is equal to the amount being supplied, charging stops. And finally, and this is the neat part, if the amount of power being used is greater than the amount being supplied from shore power, the inverter supplies the difference from the batteries.

 

The places where this is such a great deal is when your shore power is very limited, like when running off a small generator or when plugged into a 15 or 20 amp shore power circuit.

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Since I have an MSH3012, I can say it does work. But I have some trouble with a 1000 watt generator working well for an A/C unit. The "shore power" setting can be 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 50, or 60 AMPs and would need to be 7 or 8 for a 1000 watt generator. I find that if I set to to 5AMPs, then it can't match the incoming power when running a high wattage appliance and will swing all over and pull more than 5AMPs from shore power. At least that happens with a 100' 15AMP extension cord. If I set the Shore to 10AMPs, then I can run a microwave or other high watt appliances fine. A 1000 watt generator will not always put out 10AMPs, so you could stall it, Maybe the power is more stable from a 1000 watt generator than from a 100' 15AMP extension cord off a house, so the inverter can match the waveform and add 7 or 10AMPs to run the A/C. With a 2000 watt generator, everything should work well. It will run your batteries down if the A/C does not cycle and allow the MSH3012 to recharge the batteries part of the time.

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Bill, I read an article that suggested the inverter moves the entire load to shore power for a couple of seconds while its syncing up the AC waveform. If true, that could be a real problem running something like an AC startup load if you have a very small generator.

 

Geo

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Bill, I read an article that suggested the inverter moves the entire load to shore power for a couple of seconds while its syncing up the AC waveform. If true, that could be a real problem running something like an AC startup load if you have a very small generator.

 

Geo

A couple seconds would pop the breaker and that has not happened to me. I have run more than 15AMPs on a 15AMP breaker multiple times and not popped it.

 

They have fast electronics, but they are not perfect and can't perform miracles. But sometimes it does seem like a miracle.

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Best thing since buttered bread, IMO.

 

That about sums it up! Nicely explaned, Rif.

 

Are they worth the price? If you're already looking at a higher end inverter/charger unit, in a heartbeat. It's just the next logical evolution of power management in the RV/boating world and for the very little difference in price over the standard MS units it really doesn't make a lot of sense not to go with the hybrid. The advantages are leaps and bounds.

 

Bill, that is the first time I'm seen your install. VERY elegant! (Except for the "rodent hole" with the convenient climbing poles (romex) above your subpanel :D ) You 'know' I just 'had' to say it. :lol:

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I also own one of these, and they do work. Within limits - like Bill and others have said. You cannot perform miracles, but the unit will sych power between your battery bank (inverted) and shore power. And it will "fill the gap" in power from shore vs. load demand. Again, within reason. It works quite well, but if you are intending to routinely run large loads this way - like airconditioners - you might try a Victron instead. It is my opinion that the Victron handles the high demand "edge conditions" better than the Magnum. But that is an opinion based on observation of the Victron - I have never owned one. Be prepared to spend more money if going with the Victron.

 

With regard to the cost of the Magnum, if you are considering a 2812 then the cost to upgrade to a 3012 is pretty insignificant. For those that driveway boondock I always specify the 3012 when doing designs. New Horizons is installing a lot of them :)

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Thank you for making that video, Bill. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know. I am guessing the loads on my 50 amp legs may be better distributed than they are.

 

I had John Palmer install a 3012 Hybrid in our trailer at the Solar Rally in Mayo last January. John made it real simple for me by just asking Cathy and I which appliances, etc. we wanted to be able to run from our inverter. Based on our answer, he shook his head a bit and then wired a sub panel from the main breaker panel and installed the inverter for me.

 

I believe Jack's philosophy (correct me, Jack, if I am wrong) is that if I had read and understood the available resources, including the great information Jack has spent a lot of time posting on his website, and learned how to do the installation myself, I probably could have done a better job, and more importantly, I would now have a working knowledge of my system. Unfortunately, that did not happen for several reasons. Your video has reminded me that I need to go back and do my homework. After I connect my solar controller and swap the cables from a pair of golf cart batteries to a large lithium battery next month, I will need to revisit the sub panel wiring.

 

Thanks again, Bill.

 

And thank you to everyone who shares tips, knowledge, and experience on the forum for the benefit of others.

 

Jim

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Thanks, Jack. When do you expect to arrive in Hutch? We will try to get there early so we can get projects done before the rally sessions start. I dont learn as easily from reading as I do listening to a speaker or watching videos, so I don't want to miss sessions if I can help it.

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Reading the posts it seems as if someone has re-invented the Trace Inverter/Charger. We are running a SW4024. Translates as Sine Wave 4KW 24VDC supply. When on shore power or generator the inverter/charger is always in sync with the incoming AC. You, the operator, specify max allowed input current, max charging current as an AC input, among many other parameters. When the max input current is reached, must be less than 50 amps at 120VAC, the inverter will draw any excess power from the battery bank.

 

As an OBTW, it is kind of fun to watch the input current rise slowly after the Trace syncs to the AC input. DC current drops to zero and then goes up again as the battery starts charging. Same as swapping the load between generators.

 

Bill

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Bill Baxter: Trace, Statpower and Heart were merged to create Xantrex. Once the 3 year "no compete" clauses were over many started other companies including Magnum and Outback. So, anything Trace did was old hat to all of those people. Xantrex has the SW4024 manual at http://www.xantrex.com/documents/discontinued-products/sw2512mc-sw4024mc2userguide.pdf and I do not see anything about it behaving like a hybrid. I am not sure it is a pure sinewave inverter. I know my old Prosine (Statpower) would totally take over if it did not like the quality of the incoming power, but it would not add to it.

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