Jim Gell Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 I have been VERY slow finishing a solar install that I started at the January 2015 Solar Rally in Mayo, Florida. With a lot of help, I left the rally with an inverter installed so we could run our residential fridge from a pair of golf cart batteries. I recently installed a 9kwh Balqon lithium battery. Our amortized cost should beat other options and it weighs much less than lead. I removed a couple drawers and a laundry hamper and put the battery in the bedroom behind the cabinet fronts. I felt we needed storage space in the basement more than we did in the bedroom and the battery will be less prone to temperature extremes. Since the battery is located almost directly over the inverter, the cable run will not be much longer than had I put it in the basement. Battery Install Photos The roof on our 5th wheel proved to be a challenge to find unshaded space for the 1000+ watts of panels we wanted. I removed an old satellite dish, OTA TV antennae, awning wind sensor, and put the panels on the front trailer. I had just enough length from front edge of trailer to a fantastic fan cover (that I was not going to move!) to put two 64.5 inch panels end to end. But having the panels this close to the leading edge of trailer posed a risk of limbs or wires catching under the panels and ripping them off the roof. The photos show how I used aluminum diamond plate to resolve that issue. With all the hardware I designed for that, it seemed a shame not to use the same 3/16 6061 aluminum to attach the panels. My design allows the panels to tilt up to 45 degrees parallel to trailer in either direction, IF I ever want to. It will certainly make easier to get under the panels for caulking seams or any other reason. I used early morning condensation lines on the roof to locate the rafters, then confirmed with an electronic stud finder. I used 3M 5200 marine adhesive to glue the mounts to our fiberglass roof. I also bolted them to the rafters. I used a course sandpaper to prep the aluminum and fiberglass for the glue. I also scratched the aluminum with the edge of a putty knife. The I dinged it repeatedly with the corner of the blade to make what I think was better for glue adhesion. Everything was cleaned with acetone and masked before gluing and screwing. The roof under the panels has two pitch changes lengthwise and was crowned in the center. The radius at the front of the trailer also had it's own 3 dimensional effects. All this caused a lot of adjustments to get everything to line up. I ended up using a few shims and cutting the front diamond plate in half and inserting a keystone shaped plate with a little vertical crease in it to make it fit right and look finished. Solar Panel Install Photos Most of the work I have done so far has been grunt work, the critical wiring is about to begin and I am pretty nervous about having it right before energizing it. I have yet to wire up my solar controller and swap the cables from the 6 volt golf cart batteries to the lithium battery. At this point, I may just wait until we get to the HDT Rally next month and I can try ask Jack to look at my work first . 2001 Volvo 770, Detroit 60 Series, Gen 2 Autoshift Passenger assist elevator to enter cab - for when we need it, or sell it? '05 Travel Supreme Select 40 RLQSO 5th wheel 2016 smart car We started full timing on December 1st 2014 Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness - Mark Twain Not all that wander are lost - J. R. R. Tolkien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sushidog Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 Wow, looks like a sweet system. I'm sure you will be happy with it. You should have no problems running your residential fridge now, plus a big screen TV, microwave, blender, etc.. Congrats! It's wise keeping those lithium's in the residential temp range. That's a big investment, so you want to make sure they last as advertised. What charge controller and inverter did you choose to go with? Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp51443 Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 Very nice, hope you never need the diamond plate bumper but if you ever do it is going to be very nice to have. First rule of computer consulting: Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day. Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 Very nice job Jim. Should be no big issue energizing it. Solar controller is very straightforward. and independent of the inverter hookup, which I think is done? I don't remember if you are using a baby box with breakers like Ron but that is only a minor complication. We should be at the Rally early.....so will have time to spend on it. Plus, I'm only doing a couple of presentations so will have some additional time. We leave right after the Rally for New Horizons,though. Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member Living on the road since 2000PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail 2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it) 2022 New Horizons 43' 5er 2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units 2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck -------------------------------------------------------------------------See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar powerwww.jackdanmayer.com Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reed and elaine Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 Nicely done. The front compartment of our 5th wheel came set up and plumbed for a 6.5 kW propane Onan generator. I contacted the manufacturer and they said the compartment is designed to carry 400 pounds (181 kg). This was far more than sufficient for our battery suite. Another Open Range owner put eight fairly large lead acid batteries in the same space and was probably well over 400 pounds. It is important to make sure that the battery suite has ventilation since heat can damage LFP batteries. The Chris of Technomadia wrote that their LFP system probably had degradation from heat. They placed the batteries and inverter in an unventilated compartment. The inverter can put off quite a bit of heat when running air conditioner etc. They also had their motor home set on tarmac in Phoenix in summer when they were having something repaired. We do have a Walmart inside/outside (remote) thermometer ($15) in the front compartment and have not seen it over 90 even at 95 ambient. We leave the side panels (propane access) and front panel open when operating in summer. Conversely, you have to worry about low temperatures (below 32 C) in winter unless you have the more modern Ytterium LFP (we don't) if you charge at high C levels. We are installing a couple of 30 W halogen RV bulbs in the bay for this reason. We plan to be far south of extreme cold this winter but you can never be sure of how things work out. We thought about a residential fridge but stuck with the Dometic energy hog since there are times when we have boondocked in wooded areas (Yucatan, Olympic Peninsula, Cave Creek in Arizona) where we had very little sun for a week. Propane took up the slack for those times. Just glad to see more folks using LFP. Have been following the Aussie Grey Nomads and Caravaners fora and find out thatf some Aussie caravan manufacturers are offering LFP as an option and that 80% of the customers are requesting LFP. Reed and Elaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemsteadc Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 Very nice. How did you lift the battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 Very nice job. I am jealous. I would love to have an LFP set up like that. Maybe when my lead acid bank needs replacing. 2000 Kenworth T2000 w/ Cummins N14 and autoshift 2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard 2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan 2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage) 2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage)My First Solar Install ThreadMy Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the buildMy MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet! chadheiser.com West Coast HDT Rally Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronbo Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 We want to see it at hutch Ron C. 2013 Dynamax Trilogy 3850 D3 2000 Kenworth T2000 Optimus Prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Ron, glad to see you coming to the Rally!! Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member Living on the road since 2000PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail 2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it) 2022 New Horizons 43' 5er 2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units 2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck -------------------------------------------------------------------------See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar powerwww.jackdanmayer.com Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarome Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 I really feel "battery envy" should be recognized as a mental disorder and treated accordingly. Very nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gell Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Reed and Elaine - This is a Ytterium battery. From what Balqon told me in an e-mail back and forth, I don't think think ventilation and temperature will be an issue. Time will tell. oldman - The battery only weighs 233 pounds. I keep my pickup truck at my FIL's where I did the install. I put a couple heavy planks across the sides of the pickup bed and then a sheet of 3/4 plywood. Had the delivery guy slide the crate from his lift gate onto the elevated platform on my truck. I then backed up to my trailer door and slid the crate from truck into the trailer. It was not an easy task, but I was able to do it alone. When my BIL stopped over, I had him grab one end of a plank I had suspended the battery from and we lifted is up over the step to bedroom and onto a 4 wheel movers dolly. It was the perfect height that I just rolled it over to the platform I build in the cabinet and slid it into place. One problem I encountered was that the dimensions in the specs on Balqon's website were not accurate. They did not include the protrusions of the shutoff switch and BMS. To make it fit, I had to swap the positions of the drawer doors and hamper door fronts and shave a little wood off the inside of the maple stiles in the center. Previously my cabinet fronts were symmetrical with hamper in center and equal drawers on each side. We can live with that, it's only the bedroom afterall. Speaking of battery envy...I am already wondering if we should have bought the 18kwh. But it would not fit where this one did. Jim 2001 Volvo 770, Detroit 60 Series, Gen 2 Autoshift Passenger assist elevator to enter cab - for when we need it, or sell it? '05 Travel Supreme Select 40 RLQSO 5th wheel 2016 smart car We started full timing on December 1st 2014 Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness - Mark Twain Not all that wander are lost - J. R. R. Tolkien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronbo Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Jack I have been registered for a while. Jim you need to keep us posted with updates. I will be looking at this in a few years. How long did it take to receive after ordering? Ron C. 2013 Dynamax Trilogy 3850 D3 2000 Kenworth T2000 Optimus Prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemsteadc Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 It's Yttrium. I'll keep this battery in mind for a house installation. Thanks for the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Reck Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Jim, Very nice system. You have come a long way since we were at Mayo. I'm very happy with my system.. until I saw yours ... George and Ann Marie 2014 Cedar Creek 36CKTS, 640W of Solar 2012 Ram 3500, DRW, Cummins, Big Horn, Q20, Retrax Pro Retired US Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarome Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 I'm very happy with my system.. until I saw yours ... That about sums it up nicely. Maybe Cathy will get you folks the 18kwh for your anniversary. What else could be more romantic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gell Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Ron, It took several weeks for them to ship it out their door. Then when it didn't show up in OH a week after being shipped from CA, I called the shipper. Balqon had shipped it "consolidated freight" and it was still sitting in CA at the shippers waiting for them to get a full truck load to bring to Ohio! IIRC it was at least 6 weeks and maybe 8 from my order to arrival. Their after the sale customer service response was spotty at best. I sent an e-mail asking about my order status that was responded to by an office worker who was home out on maternity leave. She did not have any information, but said to call Balqon. She provided the same number that was listed on their website. I called several times over the next few days and the answering machine was full and could not take additional messages. Now mind you, it had been over a week and maybe two since I had paid for my battery. I finally called the local chamber of commerce which coincidently was located right near Balqon. I wanted to know if Balqon was out of business! The Chamber employee actually went to Balqon, and asked them in person to call me! They called me immediately, apologized and said the office person was out with a new baby, and made promises that they would have it shipped in a few days, which they did not. On the bright side I got the cell phone number of someone in charge and he did answer my call backs after that. I think it is a most likely a good product, but I would not be quick to recommend dealing with them. Jim 2001 Volvo 770, Detroit 60 Series, Gen 2 Autoshift Passenger assist elevator to enter cab - for when we need it, or sell it? '05 Travel Supreme Select 40 RLQSO 5th wheel 2016 smart car We started full timing on December 1st 2014 Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness - Mark Twain Not all that wander are lost - J. R. R. Tolkien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveh Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Nice, Thx for the pics, Dave and Lana Hasper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim & Wilma Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 Great install Jim. I'm hoping to pull the trigger on an LFP install early next year. Our TSs are almost twins and I'm really interested to see how you worked out the cable routing and etc. Been thinking the bedroom closet is also a candidate location for many of the same you reasons you cited. Include me on "the tour" of your setup at Hutch. Jim & Wilma 2006 Travel Supreme 36RLQSO 2009 Volvo VNL730, D13, I-shift, ET, Herrin Hauler bed, "Ruby" 2017 Smart Class of 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveh Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Jim, were your solar brackets all custom? Was the front diamond plate due to wind concerns at all? Did you look at any commercial bracket systems? I am going to be installing three large panels in the next three weeks and really do not know what to do for bracket systems. Dave and Lana Hasper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gell Posted September 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Dave and Lana, I built the diamond plate shield to protect from tree limbs mainly. Our trailer is quite high. It should also reduce wind issues. I designed the front shield first and then decided to use the same materials to build the rest of the mounting system. It was a lot more work and more expensive than pre fabbed brackets. On the plus side, I will be able to tilt if I decide to, which would be hard to do with 6 pre fabbed brackets per panel. It's not be hard to find a thread on here pointing out how it's better to leave roof mounted panels flat and just add more panels. My panels are 39" x 64.5", 265 watt, Grape Solar from Home Depot. It was recommended for my application to use 6 brackets per panel, so I bought 24 adjustable height stainless steel brackets from John Palmer at the solar rally in Mayo, FL in January. I plan to take pictures and measurements and put the brackets up for sale. They look like good quality brackets that would have worked well if I was not mind set on tilting, or I realized how much extra work it was going to be. Jim 2001 Volvo 770, Detroit 60 Series, Gen 2 Autoshift Passenger assist elevator to enter cab - for when we need it, or sell it? '05 Travel Supreme Select 40 RLQSO 5th wheel 2016 smart car We started full timing on December 1st 2014 Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness - Mark Twain Not all that wander are lost - J. R. R. Tolkien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reed and elaine Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Cathy and Jim You can get LFP degradation at temperatures above 115 F. As noted in earlier post on this thread, the folks at Technomadia lost over 10% of capacity. Chris does not think it got over 140F but they had both inverter and batteries in a non-ventilated box in Phoenix in summer, parked on tarmac. It is cheap to put the outside thermometer of a Walmart $15 inside/outside system in the bay where your batteries are located. Very interested in what you describe as a diamond shield. We had a TV mounted on the roof of 5th wheel so we could see if we were going to hit anything. The field of view was about 20 degrees or more so we really could not tell a thing. We were passing through the city of Palenque and I noted that we were now looking at the sky. A vine (which we found wrapped about the TV) and ripped it loose. We primarily boondock (mootchdock with family) and we have to be aware of branches. Our battery suite is 4 x Manazanita Micro batteries in series. Each battery (4 x CALB cells) only weighs around 65 pounds. This fits nicely into the front bay (designed to carry an Onan propane 6.5 kW generator) with two batteries on each side. Reed and Elaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gell Posted September 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 Reed and Elaine, Good idea.. Both my solar controller and inverter have battery temperature sensors. I have not looked into it, but maybe I can read the battery temperature right from a remote display or on my phone. If not, I will put a remote thermometer in the cabinet with the battery. My inverter is below the battery in my basement separated by a non-insulated plywood floor. I put a "cage" in place to protect the inverter from all the stuff I will put in and out of the basement near it. This cage has lots of hardware cloth wire mesh for ventilation. Some heat will penetrate the floor into the battery compartment, but I don't think it will be significant. The thermometer will tell me if I am wrong. If our paths connect someday, I would like to see your system. Jim 2001 Volvo 770, Detroit 60 Series, Gen 2 Autoshift Passenger assist elevator to enter cab - for when we need it, or sell it? '05 Travel Supreme Select 40 RLQSO 5th wheel 2016 smart car We started full timing on December 1st 2014 Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness - Mark Twain Not all that wander are lost - J. R. R. Tolkien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gell Posted September 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 My battery sits up off the plywood floor about 5 inches. If the battery gets overheated by the inverter, I can put insulation in that 5 inch space as well as a piece of foam insulation on the ceiling over the inverter. It's easy enough to do that I may do it now before I know if it's needed. 2001 Volvo 770, Detroit 60 Series, Gen 2 Autoshift Passenger assist elevator to enter cab - for when we need it, or sell it? '05 Travel Supreme Select 40 RLQSO 5th wheel 2016 smart car We started full timing on December 1st 2014 Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness - Mark Twain Not all that wander are lost - J. R. R. Tolkien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveh Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 I thought I read that temperature sensors, to provide feedback to adjust charging voltage, were not recommended with lifepo4 because the chemistry is different. Of course I can't find that information now but I will look. The issue I am speaking to is not the temperature of the battery compartment, which I agree is very important, but rather whether the charger's charging voltage should be adjusted based on temp feedback. I did not hook up my Magnum's temp sensor to my lithium battery pack. Dave and Lana Hasper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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