I need educated about my inverter/charger

[Ray,IN]

This has been one of the most informative threads I've ever had the pleasure to read,( guess it's because I have a vested interest in the replies). Digesting all the information hasn't been easy, but well-worth the effort.

I just got off the phone with Xantrex customer service (sounded like an off-shore center), anyway he said the Xantrex RS series (2000,3000) inverter/charger does NOT have a way to change float voltage. He then recommended changing the battery type to AGM instead of flooded lead/acid, to reduce float voltage. He agreed 13.6 is not the best float voltage.

I'll get back tomorrow with the results of the change from flooded to AGM charging profile.

[oldjohnt]

Ray, "He agreed 13.6 is not the best float voltage" That maxes Xantrex plus many gents here plus myself and some manufacturers in agreement on that.

 

HOWEVER grrrrrrrrrrrr as this thread shows there are so many different approaches and charging algorithms and charge voltages (of the 2 or 3 stages) used by different manufacturers WHO DOES ONE BELIEVE LOL Each of their sales literature makes them sound like the best thing since sliced bread DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH AND HOMEWORK and make choices that conform to the specifications provided by your battery manufacturer. Plus be sure your chargers (120 or Solar) have settings for AGM versus Lead Acid use, as AGM can be sensitive to proper/precise charging voltages.

 

If you end up floating at 13.6 volts on lead acid batteries my advice would be keep an eye on water levels.

 

Glad you're enjoying the thread, but I'm sure others are BORED

 

Your Neighbor,

 

John T

[Ray,IN]

I can't "keep an eye on water level", the tops of the batteries are sealed, nothing to remove. Even Exide Battery states their acceptable float level is between 13.5-13.8V; but then another section of their website states off-gassing begins at 13.6V. (bang head on wall). Hopefully the AGM setting will help.

Well, I'm going to turn early tonight, gotta have the MH at Speedco in INDY at 0700 in the morning to have oil N filter changed. It's been too hot for me to do it, and there is no-one nearer that will do it without charging $500, Speedco is $174.99.

 

The Xantrex manual states the battery bank is charged by the 100A charger, and the starting batteries are charged by a 10A charger. The Xantrex charge algorithms pg B-6,

state there is only one, one-hundreth of a volt difference between flooded and AGM batteries, 13.5 vs 13.45. That doesn't make sense to me, perhaps it does to you sparkys.

 

UPDATE:

I just received a reply to my email to Xantrex customer service,

"

Hello Raymond, Thanks for the email,Basically the Float voltage for Flooded battery @ 77 °F should be around 13.5 VDCObviously this voltage is depends on the Battery/outside  temperature  , Please take a snap shot of the SCP ( see the attachment) and send it to me as attachment , Regards  Amir"

Confused is not a good state, and that's where I am.

[Yarome]

I can't "keep an eye on water level", the tops of the batteries are sealed, nothing to remove.

 

I'll be the bad guy.

 

Your Exide batteries are wet cell hybrid deep cell batteries. They are 'not' sealed and must have their water levels maintained on a regular basis. If you haven't found how to remove the caps yet, look again.

 

They are not ideal for an RV application to begin with, but they are doable for short trips and will cost $$ down the road if not properly maintained.

 

If you have one of the national chain stores like batteries plus, or costco, sams, or the like. It wouldn't hurt to stop in and let them show you how to check your water levels.

[oldjohnt]

Yarome, I think maybe we should have the moderators just delete this entire thread, who started all this lol

[Yarome]

Yarome, I think maybe we should have the moderators just delete this entire thread, who started all this lol

 

 

It's never a bad thing to educate. God knows I appreciate every little tidbit given when I started out. I have no idea where I would be today without the wisdom of others. But yeah.. someone has clearly given the OP some bad information regarding his Exides.

[Ray,IN]

 

I'll be the bad guy.

 

Your Exide batteries are wet cell hybrid deep cell batteries. They are 'not' sealed and must have their water levels maintained on a regular basis. If you haven't found how to remove the caps yet, look again.

 

They are not ideal for an RV application to begin with, but they are doable for short trips and will cost $$ down the road if not properly maintained.

 

If you have one of the national chain stores like batteries plus, or costco, sams, or the like. It wouldn't hurt to stop in and let them show you how to check your water levels.

You're not the bad guy, if I didn't want to hear the answer I would not ask the question. Thanks, I'll stop in at Sam's club and inquire. The 2 Interstate chassis batteries are sealed according to the local Interstate store.

I began this thread with, what I assumed was a simple question. Well, that question has turned out to be complex and educational, at least to me.

[Yarome]

You're not the bad guy, if I didn't want to hear the answer I would not ask the question. Thanks, I'll stop in at Sam's club and inquire. The 2 Interstate chassis batteries are sealed according to the local Interstate store.

I began this thread with, what I assumed was a simple question. Well, that question has turned out to be complex and educational, at least to me.

 

Your interstates, more than likely, are sealed maintenance free types and anything that keeps you campin are good enough. After all.. it's just a battery and not the 'end all' to what's really important.

 

See you on the road.

[oldjohnt]

While I understand the advantages of Rays perhaps sealed type or say AGM over conventional flooded lead acid batteries (where I can easily see and maintain the water myself), when it comes to the bottom line of cost versus life expectancy and how ever many Life Cycles etc. IM NOT YET CONVINCED IF I USE MORE EXPENSIVE AGM I SAVE MONEY IN THE LONG RUN. Do you get more life expectancy and more life cycles to justify the extra cost???????????????? If so Im in lol

 

Sure they have charging time advantages as well as less worry with location, physical mount and water etc and may be great for some, but for now I'm sticking with cheaper to purchase less charging sensitive flooded lead acid. THIS IS NOT TO START AN ARGUMENT OVER WHICH IS BEST, use which ever you wish and is best for your situation, Im ONLY saying FOR MY USE lead acid works fine, and if a person uses a quality smart progressive stage charger and solar and smart solar charge controller and doesn't allow the batteries to ever become very discharged, you're using up less life cycles and should get years of good service.

 

TO EACH THEIR OWN be it batteries or chargers (Smart or Dumb lol) pay your money and take your chances

 

Okay, let the long winded post stand lol I have learned a thing or two and hope others have also

 

John T

[Ray,IN]

It's been 2 days with the battery type set to AGM like the Xantrex CS guy recommended to lower charging rates, I also lowered the charging capacity to 70% like Rif suggested. The inverter/charger remote display still reads float 13.6, which is within Exide's window of float voltages and is what Xantrex is permanently set at for float voltage.

I've decided Yarome is right about the batteries, I'm going to just leave it "as-is" and depend on Exide warranting the batteries every 14 months (2 yr full warranty). I get a new bank of 3 batteries at NC. I'm following both Exide and Xantrex recommendations for float voltage (as if I had a choice), so if/when they fail from overcharging I'll continue to get new batteries every year- as long as I keep them full of water.

That guy from Xantrex said the RS series is the only ones Xantrex made with a non-adjustable charging voltage.

I thank everyone who participated in my education on batteries! Even though I did not find a solution (turned out there is none) I learned a lot.

Addendum;

I just looked at U.S. Battery website. They make a true 12V deep-cycle battery that interests me. When these Exides fail-again, I'm going to switch to U.S. battery 12v XC2.

[Yarome]

Rayin, if you do get to the point of switching them out, you might take a look at the Sam's Club/Costco 6v GC2 'true' deep cycle batteries. They run around $85 a pop but will get you 232ah's capacity vs. the US XC2's @ 155ah's. $20 more, but 75ah's more in capacity. That is.. if you have the space to hold them.

 

If you are replacing 3-12v's with the XC2, that would mean a total capacity of 465ah's for around $450 vs 4-6v GC2's with a total capacity of 464ah's for around $340.

 

The following is strictly my own opinion based on my own experiences... and speaking within the broadest of terms. YMMV Besides.. this thread is so off track.. why not?

 

Just as a comparison... SC/Costco Deep cycles would be considered a 'mid-line' battery. Trojan/or similar would be considered 'higher end' battery, and then you have AGM's. Cost to matching capacities (440-460ah range) would be $340, $600, and $1200 respectively. The $340 class is usually more than adequate for most part time RV'rs. They hold a good charge, are easy to maintain, a vast improvement over the hybrid type deep cycles, and a great value (more often than not.. even less expensive than a hybrid). Aka... they won't break your bank if they get neglected a bit and die after 4 or 5 seasons of camping. You'll get your money's worth.

 

The 'Trojan class" is going to be more for your hard core camper/large power requirement/solar fiend/boondocker/off-grider types. They/we, generally speaking, want more control over their power management, want heavier plated, more reliable and longer lasting deep cycle cells. They depend on their battery banks to be rock solid day in and day out. That's not to say that a 'casual camper' shouldn't have Trojan types. If properly maintained they are a 'fantastic' investment and will provide more 'bang for your buck' over the long haul, but DO have to be maintained properly to protect your investment. Just to give you an idea.. even using them on a daily basis it's common to see 10-12 year old Trojan banks and 15+ year banks are becoming more common as charging technologies have improved over the past decade.

 

Note: I say "Trojan type/class" simply because most folks know right off what type of battery you are talking about, but there are a couple of other companies out there that are emerging as 'just as good' and even marginally better than the long standing "industry standard" Trojan's.

 

AGM's.. those are really difficult to justify without extenuating requirements. They have additional benefits that most RV's wouldn't be equipped to take advantage of, however, for some of the reasons previously mentioned by John, they DO have their place. (I'm actually running AGM's at the moment).

 

All that being said, there are some other 12v deep cycle batteries around that would provide more ah's for a comparable price to the XC2's you were looking at. Best advice? Don't worry about it until the time comes. The market changes all the time, so particular batteries and costs right now may not be the best option a year from now.

 

Just something to keep in the back of your mind.

 

I guess I felt like talking about batteries tonight, hu!? :lol:

[Jack Mayer]

Yarome's advice above is very good. For most people that are casual boondockers the Sams Club batteries are the way to go. It is a good "bang for buck" tradeoff. And for novices at charging systems and boondocking I ALWAYS recommend the Sams batteries (or equivalent) since your "cost of failure" is far lower. Once one understands battery management and has the right equipment one "may" want to go to an AGM or higher cost flooded cell. It just depends on your circumstances.

[Ray,IN]

I forgot to post the results of disconnecting the battery temperature sensor. I disconnected it Friday, and ever since the float voltage has remained at 13.3.

I don't know if the sensor is faulty, or disconnecting it so the charger always assumed battery temperature is above 90*F caused the float voltage drop from 13.6/7 to 13.3. I'm going to leave it disconnected either way.

 

If I again have trouble with this obsolete Xantrex RS2000, I'll probably buy a different brand, like what Jack recommends on his website.

[oldjohnt]

Ray, if you decide to upgrade, depending on if you already have sufficient Inverter capacity or not (I forget)

[Ray,IN]

It's been 5 days now with the temp sensor disconnected, float voltage has remained a constant 13.3V. I suspect I stumbled across a work-around to lowering float voltage to acceptable level.

John, the 2,000W inverter is quite adequate for our requirements. Now that float voltage is "normal", I'll leave things alone unless the Xantrex dies.

 

Thanks again everyone! I sure got an education through this thread.