PAylor Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Hi all, We're thinking about a new fifth wheel (again). So looking for feedback. We will custom order again. Lots of new units have a residential refrigerator. I don't really see the advantage. Any thoughts? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc2 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Until and if the manufactures of rv fridges sees the light, I will not own any rv unless it has a residential fridge. My patience and trust for rv fridges is gone after the quality went down hill along with manufacturers feeble attempts to offer a fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docj Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Lots of new units have a residential refrigerator. I don't really see the advantage. Roughly one and a half times the storage volume in the same physical space; Far larger freezer space Available in sizes much larger than largest RV fridges More stable temperature control Frost free operation Larger ice maker with higher throughput Much faster cool-down (important to those who don't leave it on all the time) Doesn't pose fire risk Start with those and I'm sure a few others will get added. All this in an appliance that costs a small fraction of the cost of a large RV fridge. And the energy "penalty" is less than you might guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Finn Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 When our Dometic finally dies we are strongly considering a SunFrost refrigerator. They run off solar or A/C. Very efficient. We boondock and like the solar capability. You may not be interested in boondocking. You don't get all the bells and whistles with a Sunfrost, but your food will be cool and frozen with little energy consumption. Not cheap but on par with a dometic replacement. Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryneal Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 We've had a residential frig for a year. Like it for all the reasons mentioned. The 5'ver came with one bank of 6v batteries and a 1kv inverter. It's been a very hot summer and the frig did ok on a full day tow. Once in a while if the frig ran hour or so, the inverter would shut down. Plan to add another bank of 6v batteries for next year and increase the size of inverter. Not much of a boondocker, but need to be realistic if I don't have shore power for a day or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXiceman Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 I would not have another RV with an RV frig unless the industry makes some changes and gets the RV frigs where they will work again. With the residential unit, the beer stay cold and the ice cream stays frozen. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davydee Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 We upgraded from a Dometic 1350 to a Samsung 197 in June. 17.8 cu ft vs 12 cu ft. Ice in two hours. Yellow sticker on the door said 574 kwh a year. Probably more closer to 750+ just based on my observation. Dometic on AC pulled 3-4 amps. Samsung is 1. Definitely recovers quicker than our Dometic. On Sunday and mid 80 weather, we had our choice of campsites & chose a RV site with the frig side in the sun. Would never had done that with the Dometic. Down site is boondocking. We have a Xantrex Prosine 1800 & leave our frig on during travel. I'm seeing 12.9 to 12.7 volts and 10-12 amps if the frig is running. We have 4 6v batteries but if I could, I'd go with 6 6v batteries just to ensure a full day of running the trailer on 12v without going below 50% of the battery capacity. Wife thinks the Samsung walks on water. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuffMan Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Why not run a separate 12V/50A cable from your tow vehicle through a diode splitter/isolator to the trailer and up your tow vehicle alternator accordingly. Would take care of charging trailer bats as well as running fridge while you travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davydee Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 I can't speak for others with residential frigs, but for us there's little need to run the residential frig during travel as ours holds temps very well. I just do it because we can. As we boondock for short periods of time, I wanted the inverter. Since we have the inverter, I use it. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Greg Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 I agree with Dave above, we have been traveling with a residential fridge for almost 2 years and have no inverter. It has been off as much as 9 hours but our normal travel day is 4 to 6 hours. We have had no problems traveling with the fridge off, it might get as warm as 43 degrees and the freezer 5 degrees. We do not boondock. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budeneighe Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 All of the pluses go to Residential refrigerators except boondocking. However, 6-9 hours unplugged is nothing for a decent refrigerator as long as you don't open the doors. This means that whatever way you have to keep the doors closed it does not allow them to "breathe" as you go down the road. A second issue is one of keeping the cooling coils clean. Access from the rear is rare on a residential refer in the space formerly taken up by an RV refer because the RV refers have to have a lot of space behind them because of the external coils and the gas venting. Usually, putting in a residential refer takes up all of the gap and depending on how the RV fridge was vented (top or back) may determine if one can even get to the back to clean the coils and fan blades. In a home, one just rolls the fridge forward to get at the back side. Can't usually do that in an RV installation because it has to be solidly bolted into place to prevent all movement of the box going down the road. Otherwise, if one is considering a swap out, it is not hard to find used residential refrigerators of recent models on Craigslist for very decent prices. Can't usually find RV fridges there at any price. When our RV fridge died the second time I just pulled the 30+ year old watermelon/beer fridge from our home basement to try it at no cost. That was over 4 years ago and I really can't say that I want to spend any more money on it than I have. It has been way better in all respects than the RV fridge ever was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance Chick Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 We have had 2 coaches and put a residential fridge in both. WOULD NOT have another RV fridge....no way, no how!!! As stated above, no problem traveling unhooked for quite a few hours. We never boondock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rif Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 A second issue is one of keeping the cooling coils clean. Access from the rear is rare on a residential refer in the space formerly taken up by an RV refer because the RV refers have to have a lot of space behind them because of the external coils and the gas venting. Usually, putting in a residential refer takes up all of the gap and depending on how the RV fridge was vented (top or back) may determine if one can even get to the back to clean the coils and fan blades. In a home, one just rolls the fridge forward to get at the back side. Can't usually do that in an RV installation because it has to be solidly bolted into place to prevent all movement of the box going down the road. This is a valid concern and the reason you would be wise to select a refrigerator designed with the coils underneath and the air intake and exhausts in the front. That's the way our 22 cu. ft. Whirlpool is designed. It also reduces the depth and clearance requirements, thus allowing the refrigerator to be more easily installed in many RVs. Cleaning of the coils is also done from the front without removing the refrigerator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark and Dale Bruss Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Counter Depth refrigerators, which fit better with RV cabinetry, tend to have bottom cooling as they are designed to be push back to the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sushidog Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 For boondockers, a good compromise between $3,000 Sunfrost and $600 residential fridge is a Novacool DC fridge. It has a high-efficiency Danfoss rotary compressor (like mini-split heat pumps use) which runs off of 12 volts, so no inverter is used. Its efficiency is about in-between a Sunfrost and a residential fridge, mainly because of less insulation (extra insulation can be added upon install to boost its efficiency) and so is its price (around $1,700 for a 9cf model.) "Adding 2" rigid foam insulation to the outside will reduce energy consumption by 1/2. 1100 watt hours per day at 70* as delivered, 550 watt hours per day if insulation is added on-site." http://www.backwoodssolar.com/novakool-dc-refrigerator-model-rfu9000 Even at 1,100 watt/hrs./day, about 250-300 watts of solar will replace what it draws. Add the extra insulation and only 1/2 of this solar capacity is needed. For comparison, 2 typical golf cart batteries have about 1,200-1,300 usable watt hrs. (if depleted to 50%) So 4 golf cart batteries would be good for about 4 1/2 days of use between charging if no solar is present and nothing else is used (with the added insulation and a little over 2 days without it). Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollytrolley Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 We converted to a 12 Cu ft VFD shop / patio model VFD (Variable Freq Drive) fridge almost two years ago. The solid-state VFD in this fridge makes this unit insanely effecent power-wise. We have boon docked many times more than two-weeks solid with only two group 31 deep cycles and a cheap modified 400W inverter driving the fridge and our coffee grinder and still never had any issues. The real advantage of the VFD is that it NEVER starts the fridge compressor at full speed and almost never runs the compressor at full rated power often the entire on-time for a 24 hour period is measured in minutes of low-speed / low load compressor operation ONLY as needed to maintain the desired temps. "Normal Fridges" are like hot-rod teens that peel-off at every stop light ...... most fridges start at "Full-Throttle" and thats a HUGE waste of power. Becareful when selecting a new residential fridge for RV use.....many new fridges only operate at a limited ambiant temp range of about 60f to 85f and then a internal kill-switch powers them off ........ this is a ploy to better energy-star ratings ........... We enjoy -10f freezer temps and NEVER wory about out-of-level parking or being without cold food storage.......... Our led lights use about the same power as our fridge n a weekly basis..... Drive on........(enjoy COLD Icecream.......) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc2 Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 In all due respect sushidog, 1. why would anyone buy a fridge from a company, who for years basically denied that anything was wrong with their less than optimal quality rv fridges, 2. who I understand recently settled a multi million $ class action suit for certain models of their fridges, 3. came out when a so-called fix(s) for those model years in question which does nothing more than shut the fridge off if the temps get to high. They can't even get the fixes right as they're on revision G I believe. No thanks, I went with a residential fridge which has a significantly less chance of causing problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaH Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 In all due respect sushidog, 1. why would anyone buy a fridge from a company, who for years basically denied that anything was wrong with their less than optimal quality rv fridges, Chip is talking about a Novacool, not a Norcold. As far as I can tell, Novacools are not made by Norcold (or Thetford which appears to own Norcold). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 We're thinking about a new fifth wheel (again). So looking for feedback. We will custom order again. Lots of new units have a residential refrigerator. I don't really see the advantage. There are advantages, but there are also some advantages to the RV type refrigerator as well. While those have had some serious problems the past few years, the problems were never as rampant as the recent publicity might lead one to think. There have been some fires that clearly were caused by those refrigerators, but things have been improved in the manufacturing process an there is now an after market product that has proven to work very well in preventing that sort of problems, called the ARPrv which is currently used and recommended by myself and also by Mark Nemeth of Escapee's Tech. Department. The main advantage to the RV type, or absorption refrigerator is that it can be powered by propane and a small amount of 12V-dc current. This allows it to operate completely independent of any source of 120V power. But it is very true that these refrigerators do require more space for the amount of storage and they have had a checkered history, even though many of us have used one of them for many years with no negative effects. We have had RV refrigerators in our RVs since the early 70's and have had only one total failure that required replacement and no fires. If you have the batteries and inverter to support the house type of refrigerator, they do have clear advantages in capacity and cooling ability. In such a case, I too would choose to use one of them, even though if you read enough forums you will see that they are not totally free of any issues either. RV life is harder on any appliance than sitting still in a fixed house is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ms60ocb Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 DOCJ wrote 1-Roughly one and a half times the storage volume in the same physical space; 2-Far larger freezer space 3-Available in sizes much larger than largest RV fridges 4-More stable temperature control 5-Frost free operation 6-Larger ice maker with higher throughput 7-Much faster cool-down (important to those who don't leave it on all the time) 8-Doesn't pose fire risk 9-I would add less concern to operating in level condition (Many times the RV frig didn't operate after some road with pot holes and 9% grade0 Start with those and I'm sure a few others will get added. All this in an appliance that costs a small fraction of the cost of a large RV fridge. And the energy "penalty" is less than you might guess. I agree highly with DOCJ on points 4, 7 & 8. I recently made the hard decision and ordered a new FW with a residental Frig .I really liked the fact the RV Gas refrig would operate on propane many hours with a good battery but decided for Health reasons Iwould have a generator also so with that I order a refrig big enough that things will get lost and be found when thing are GREEN . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariner Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Our Whirlpool has made life a whole lot less complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Kirk, I'm interested in any performance data you might have or know about for the ARP control device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horizon36 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 We took out our Norcold 1200 lrim when it failed and replaced it with a Samsung RF197 and absolutely love it. The food compartment is always 38* and the freezer is at 8*. We use a separate 600 watt PSW inverter to run it when boondocking or rolling down the road. We have 4-6 volt house batteries and 425 watts of solar. The engine alternator charges the house batteries when we're driving. Overnight boondocking use will take the battery bank down by 0.1 volts. We love the additional storage and that it makes ice way faster than we can use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sushidog Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 If you're looking for a reasonably priced, energy efficient residential fridge, (and don't need or have space for a giant one) the best I could fond is the 10CF Frigidare FFET1022QW. It's only $480 from Sears and according to its energy star rating only consumes 296 KWH/yr. http://www.sears.com/frigidaire-10-cu-ft-top-freezer-refrigerator-white/p-04602442000P?prdNo=42&blockNo=42&blockType=G42 Of course you still have inverter inefficiencies to deal with. Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelforever Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 We are definitely changing our Norcold 1200 series for a residential refrigerator. We have two 12 volt coach batteries that produce a total of 230 amp hrs. We also have a 1000 watt Xantrex modified sine wave inverter. We either have to change that to a pure sine wave inverter or find a frig that will work with the modified wave. We have seen some residential refrigerators that only require less than 4 amps pr hr. This would easily allow us to run overnight on batteries as long as we used the generator once a day to recharge. And of course running down the road the batteries are being recharged the whole time so I see no reason to not have the frig on all the time. No more turning off the frig when pulling into a gas station. No more worrying about being completely level to avoid frig not operating. Residential frig's keep things much cooler and do it much quicker and more efficiently. If you have the door to a Norcold open for one minute (such as right after shopping and putting things away). It takes one hour for every minute to bring back the cool temperature. Can't wait to get our new frig!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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