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Looking for an RV to go fulltime in


TripKitty

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I cannot find an unloaded weight for it or a GCVWR for it. If I have to, I can get the unloaded weight by taking it to a scale, but that still won't get me the GCVWR. The trailer hitch is rated for 5000 pounds. If it was me designing it, I would want the GCVWR to be 5000 pounds over the GVWR if that is what the hitch is rated for, but it doesn't seem like I should just assume that is the case?

The empty weight is of no value to you anyway since that would be with no optional equipment, no water or fuel, nothing at all but exactly as it came off of the assembly line if it had no optional equipment. What you need to know is what it weighs as it is now to compare to the GVWR of 19,500#. By subtracting that weight, with full fuel tanks and at least as much water as you expect to travel with, you will then know how much capacity you have for your belongings and food. There should also be a listing of GCWR and that is usually about 3000# or so more than the GVWR as it is the gross combined weight rating, meaning the maximum weight of the RV and the most it can safely tow. It is the difference between the weight of the RV loaded for travel, subtracted from the GCWR which tells you how heavy a vehicle you will be able to safely tow. The other issue is the weight rating of the hitch receiver, which will be stamped into the metal of the receiver.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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Here is the weight tag from the door where I found the weights that I did. There is no GCWR on it. I tried looking in the closets, cupboards, etc. as I know sometimes they have weights listed there, but I found nothing. Is there another place on the RV where I should be checking?

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Class B, 1984 Dodge Xplorer van by Frank Industries.

 

Follow my life and travels at my blog, Live Hoppy. :)

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You are correct that they sure didn't show one. It must be that it was not required at the time the RV was built. It is also interesting that the axle weight ratings add up to 21k while the gross weight rating is only 19.5k. I did a bunch of digging on the internet to try and get a gross combined for the Tropical of that era but found nothing official. As a side note, that coach was on our short list to buy back when we bought our new, 1998 Cruise Master. We were looking at those two and the Winnebago Adventurer but Pam liked the CM floor-plan best.

 

Anyway, in all of my search I didn't find specifics to the Tropical but I did find numerous references to that chassis. As it left the factory the chassis did not have the tag axle(intermediate axle) that is listed on the label. The 11K rear and 5.5K front was the standard from the factory and the bare chassis as delivered had a GVWR of 16,500#. It was very common at that time to add a tag axle and thus increase the GVWR of a chassis and then to add extensions to the frame rails to allow them to build a longer coach on the chassis. Until GM sold out to Workhorse in late 1999 there was no GM powered chassis that as configured at the factory had any higher GVWR. Ford was that same way until they introduced the V-10 powered chassis with a complete redesign of the F53. (Useless history <_< ) The motorhome builders were in a tread of adding length and at the time slides were also new and both required more weight bearing capacity that the standard gas chassis available and there were not that many diesel chassis available at that time. It was this big increase in weights which lead to the development of the many diesel chassis that came out in the late 90's and early 2000's. All of the major motorhome builders at that time built models which had a tag added on and even today, most gas chassis have extra length added to the chassis frame rails to allow for the extra length. The added length is not as common today because the gas chassis now come with longer wheelbases and so the extensions are not necessary on those but the long wheelbases also cost more so some RVs still have the very long rear overhang.

 

One of the issues of the era that this coach (and my former one) come from is that builders were frequently selling coaches that were very close to the GVWR when leaving the factory, completely empty. Most of the buying public was not yet educated about such issues and manufacturers took full advantage of this. Consumers and governmental pressure have slowly improved this and also changed what weights they must show on labels inside of each RV so it is getting better, but slowly. In the late 90's there was actually one or two models of motorhome which were above the GVWR as they left the assembly line. National RV was not one of the manufacturers known to do that. (Best known was Bounder)

 

All of this is by way of informing you of what you need to be aware of when considering any motorhome of the age group in which you will probably be shopping. With this particular one I would just assume that you will be limited to towing a vehicle of 3500# or less. There are three factors that contribute to the limit of weight that you can safely tow. The first thing is the hitch receiver on the back of the RV will have a maximum weight rating stamped into the metal somewhere and that is what it was designed to tow. It is probably 3500# but it could also be 5000# as those are the two most common ratings found on gas motorhomes. The second thing to consider is the gross combined weight or GCWR which does exist somewhere if we can locate it, even though it seems to not have been published. That is a weight that is set by the design engineers just like the GVWR is and is based upon things like the power train, brakes and suspension of the motorhome. The other consideration is the maximum towing weight which is a design limit that is based upon design also with one of the keys being the strength of those frame rail extensions that are welded to the rear of the chassis rails. Even though we may not be able to locate the limits other than the one for the receiver, it is probably quite safe to assume that it will be at least 3000# more than GVWR and I'd not be too concerned at 3500#.

 

I hope that all of this is at least a little bit helpful. With any motorhome that was built before the label requirements were changed you will probably find similar difficulty in determining at least some of those limits. Manufacturers have been very slow to share such information and their business association, RVIA works very hard to keep the governmanet from applying the federal highway safety standards to the RV industry. Thus far they have managed to do so, and for that reason you will find that motorhomes do not have some of the safety features required in trucks(which are also different from cars). :huh:

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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Thank you Kirk. Your answers are so informative and very much appreciated. And I like the "Useless history". :D

 

I have finally found a spec sheet for this model:

 

GCWR is 21000

UVW is 16550

 

So that leaves 4450 lbs that would be total for my car, water, propane, stuff, me, etc. I guess that is not going to cut it for me. Interestingly, the model on the Ford chassis has a GCWR of 25500 and would have come much closer to meeting my weight requirements. I'm a little sad as I really kind of liked that Tropical. :unsure: I guess it's better to know now and move on with my search.

 

I am really considering trying to go visit PPL motorhomes in Texas sometime soon. They do seem to have a better selection of options that are close to what I'm looking for than anywhere else I've found. The options here are just so limited and the dealers here really have no interest in having older models on their lots. In the mean time, I'll keep combing Craigslist.

Class B, 1984 Dodge Xplorer van by Frank Industries.

 

Follow my life and travels at my blog, Live Hoppy. :)

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I yield to Kirk on on older gas motorhomes. I will make this statement, while just a opinion, any gas motorhome over 35' in length is going to be overloaded. Especially in the budget you are looking for. A older pusher, something with solid wood cabinets, maybe no slides, will be a option to consider. I would not even consider a tag axle gas rig. The added tag axle was just a patch to try and get capacity the public was wanting at the time.

 

About PPL. The have a great web site, you can look and see the actual selling price back 2 years. BUT, their opinion of very good, etc, is usually VERY optimistic. Their excellent is my opinion of average.

 

A gas 35' rig will probably not have a place for a W/D.

 

If it has a rubber roof, 12 years is the end of the useful life, a fiberglass roof, if maintained, can last 20+ years. A well cared for Safari, Alpine, Country Coach, some Monaco's are good options. If you can stretch a bit, a older Foretravel are bullet proof.

 

Wishing you good luck on your travels.

 

Jim

Fulltimming since 2000. Now 3/4 timming
2012 Ram Laramie CC, DRW, 2014 3150RL Montana
Sent via Verizon USB727 from somewhere.

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"A gas 35' rig will probably not have a place for a W/D. " Probably true, but there are exceptions. My mother-in-law has a 2014 Winnebago Sightseer 33C gas motorhome and it has a washer/dryer. It was set up for separates, but she put in a vented Splendide combo unit. She has chemical sensitivities and laundromats are out for her.

 

BTW: She can pull hills faster with the Ford V10 and much lower total weight than the 40ft 2001 Monaco Dynasty she traded in, towing the same Chevrolet Malibu.

2004 40' Newmar Dutch Star DP towing an AWD 2020 Ford Escape Hybrid, Fulltimer July 2003 to October 2018, Parttimer now.
Travels through much of 2013 - http://www.sacnoth.com - Bill, Diane and Evita (the cat)
 

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I have finally found a spec sheet for this model:

 

GCWR is 21000

UVW is 16550

 

So that leaves 4450 lbs that would be total for my car, water, propane, stuff, me, etc. I guess that is not going to cut it for me. Interestingly, the model on the Ford chassis has a GCWR of 25500 and would have come much closer to meeting my weight requirements. I'm a little sad as I really kind of liked that Tropical. :unsure: I guess it's better to know now and move on with my search.

Your math is not accurate and a short lesson in RV weights is in order. The unladen weight is what the RV weighs as it leaves the assembly line and in most cases without any optional equipment. Based on that spec sheet, the GVWR or gross chassis weight, which is the most the coach should ever weigh when fully loaded for travel is 19500# so that means that you could add 2,950# of personal belongings, food, and such to the RV without the chassis being over loaded. The GCWR of 2100# would then leave you only 1500# for the vehicle that you might tow. But you can lower the personal items weight and so increase the weight that can be safely towed. If you were to only add 1500# of personal items it would bring your RV's gross weight to 18,050# and you would then be able to tow the difference between the coach's total weight and the GCWR or, 2,950#.

 

 

. I will make this statement, while just a opinion, any gas motorhome over 35' in length is going to be overloaded.

 

A gas 35' rig will probably not have a place for a W/D.

 

If it has a rubber roof, 12 years is the end of the useful life, a fiberglass roof, if maintained, can last 20+ years.

I disagree about this but it is something to watch closely as the probability does increase. In recent years there are gas chassis motorhomes with as much as 26,000# of GVWR and even before that they did exist. My 36', 1998 Cruise Master, was not overloaded and I never traveled with it so. It did not have the available cargo capacity that TripKitty is looking for as with all tanks full it had only about 1800# available, but that was workable for us since we never traveled with a full, 80 gallon freshwater tank, but usually only carried half or less since we rarely dry camped for more than a single night. Loaded as we traveled, we had about 2400# capacity and with careful selection we managed to live quite comfortably in ours for 12 years with no storage anywhere other than our home. And I do know and understand about weights, having weighed all 4 corners of our coach in preparing for fulltime and then at a CAT scale about once each year and each side about every 3 - 5 years.

 

What she does need to be very careful of is the available cargo weight. The only RV of that era that was well known for being overweight when not loaded was the Bounder but there were many gas coaches built in the 90's and before which had 2000# or less of cargo capacity and little ability to tow a vehicle. Most of them at that time were only designed to tow vehicles of 3500# or so.

 

Washer/dryers in motorhomes were not all that common up until the 90's and even then only in the larger ones. Our CM could have had one in it but we would have had to do without the large bathroom version which we had. Most of the early ones used the combo units because they require less space.

 

Rubber or EDPM roofs as most of them are, came with a 12 year warranty and like most things, only those that were neglected or abused usually failed in that sort of time frame. Our CM was 14 years old and less than a year before we sold it, I had it professionally inspected and the verdict was that it had at least 5 more years of life left. It probably would have been better if I had been one to clean and condition it more often, but I only cleaned it one or two times a year and never used a conditioner until beginning about year 10. There have been commercial buildings using that same material have been around for more than 30 years and the manufacturer claims that they last that long.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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My math is accurate, I was just simplifying the problem. I do understand that the total for weight in the RV would be only 2950, but the total for my car and all the stuff in the RV would still be 4450.

 

I think I could do with around 2000 lbs of cargo capacity as long as I could also be towing 4000-4500 lbs. I don't need an excessive amount of stuff, but I do need to be able to tow my car and have some stuff. Of course, I wouldn't mind extra cargo capacity just so I always know I am well under the limit.

Class B, 1984 Dodge Xplorer van by Frank Industries.

 

Follow my life and travels at my blog, Live Hoppy. :)

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The problem with using the unladen weight is that very few RVs ever actually weigh that little. It is the reason that most everyone here suggests taking any used RV to a scale and getting an actual weight to use. While manufacturers are getting better about the weights displayed, only one or two RV builders give the buyer an actual weight of each RV as it leaves the assembly line. Instead they use what is called a "design weight" meaning the weight if built to a bare bones, no options plan and very few are that way and the designed weight usually doesn't include things like radiator coolant, engine oil and other ways to make things look better than they are. The CM we lived in was actually nearly 700# heavier by scale than the unladen weight on the sticker, the day I took delivery. You are correct that it won't be any more than what you used but it might be significantly less, is my concern.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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You make a good point Kirk. In this case since even using the unladen weight from the spec sheet doesn't leave me with enough cargo/towing capacity so there was no need for me to get an actual weight for the RV. However, I will keep that in mind for my future hunt. If I find one that I am serious about and the weight specs appear good on paper, I will likely get it weighed before buying it just to know for sure what it comes in at.

Class B, 1984 Dodge Xplorer van by Frank Industries.

 

Follow my life and travels at my blog, Live Hoppy. :)

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  • 7 months later...

I wanted to update this thread.

 

After spending months looking around, I finally decided to go with the van that I already had.

 

I looked at a ton of RVs and went back and forth between thoughts of a class A, fifth wheel, etc. I even went to PPL motorhomes in both Houston and New Braunfels. I actually encountered frustrating experiences at both with sales people not returning calls. In the end, I think it was just as well because I am really glad I didn't make either of the purchases I was considering through them.

 

I kept finding a lot of used RVs that just weren't in great shape. I got the feeling a lot of people buy them and have enough of an income to make the payments on the RVs, but not to keep up on maintenance. Then they put them up for sale when the needed maintenance has built up to a point where it's going to be super costly and really isn't worth it. This may be a generalization and probably was also influenced by my not having a huge budget.

 

Then I took my van on a two-week business trip and really could just see myself living in it and being able to make it work. I also had a family member offer to take in my two cats, so that meant I could do with a lot less space. There are some areas where I am making some sacrifices by picking my van- very limited space, no possibility of a W/D, no room for my drum kit, and no separate vehicle so I'll have to unhook everything to go anywhere. I decided that these were sacrifices that I could make and there are some other really positive things about the van- easy parking, driving, being able to go to more remote areas, cheaper maintenance costs, etc. And also the fact that the price was right ;).

 

Now, I am in the process of getting ready to move into it. I have spent the last few months getting rid of a lot of my stuff, trying to wrap up some major projects at work, and starting to get the van ready. I had new tires put on it last week and also got the windows tinted. Later this week, I am going to replace the roof vent. There is a leak around the current one and I thought rather than just trying to fix the leak I would replace it with a much nicer fantastic vent/fan.

 

I plan to start living in the van in about two weeks or so. I'll probably start out kind of living in the driveway and doing some shorter trips as I finish getting rid of stuff and put my house on the market. I still have a lot to do, but I am super excited about the progress that I am making.

Class B, 1984 Dodge Xplorer van by Frank Industries.

 

Follow my life and travels at my blog, Live Hoppy. :)

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After spending months looking around, I finally decided to go with the van that I already had.

If you have not yet discovered it, I highly recommend: http://www.cheaprvliving.com/blog/. Bob Wells shares lots of wonderful information on converting and living in vans and other small vehicles. Given my faulty short term memory I may have already said this but, if so, it is worth repeating. :)

 

Linda Sand

 

edited to correct empty to memory :)

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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I have long believed that when you have limited RV experience, it is best to start with one of the most economical means that you have and test the waters before expending a major portion of your financial resources. Once you know what you like and have some experience in the roving lifestyle you will have a much better knowledge of what you really need and even of what you will want over the long haul.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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