Jump to content

Zamp 320w Deluxe solar kit install


Recommended Posts

So what is being suggested is that in lieu of an inverter like Xantrex SW600 for $153.00 you look at substituting a combined charger inverter unit like the magnum MS1012 for $688.00. Here are the two links. http://www.starmarinedepot.com/xantrex-prowatt-sw600-inverter.html?gclid=CjwKEAjw5J6sBRDp3ty_17KZyWsSJABgp-OaCdS9haoxXadbwLmoBobFtK9HIKWLH1IgQMMR3qJOUhoCEEfw_wcB http://www.imarineusa.com/magnumenergymms1012100winverter12vwith50apfccharger.aspx The Magnum is an ideal choice but you probably can get a different brand for less money.

Dave and Lana Hasper

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 73
  • Created
  • Last Reply

JohnT and Jack, apologies for not responding more directly to your suggestions for upgrading the OEM converter. I was preoccupied with the panel/battery issue. OK, here's a photo of what I think is my converter. I suspect the box that the big round black cable is attached to is it. The rest is breakers and fuses. The opening that this sits in is 4 5/8" x 11 1/8". Is there a new one that will fit this opening? And, what's the cost of a new converter/charger?

post-28005-0-53984300-1435187914_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I took 3 cardboard cutouts up on the roof today to see how they would fit. Take a look and let me know if you think it will work. Panels are Kyocera 160w, 58.5"x27 plus 2" to allow for mounting. Sorry the photo is cropped so tightly. Had to to get it under the maximum size.

post-28005-0-89425200-1435192085_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Happy Wanderer GREAT QUESTIONS, you're really paying attention and getting into this.

 

FIRST I cant tell from that picture if what you have is a COMBINATION Converter/Charger PLUS 120 VAC and 12 VDC Distribution Panel?????

 

Such are typical in many travel trailers and motorhomes. NOTE they are where BOTH the 12 VDC Circuits that are fused,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, PLUS the 120 VAC Circuits that may have Circuit Breakers, all terminate and from whence wires and branch circuits lead throughout the RV for 120 VAC Convenience Outlets and 12 VDC Circuits (fans, lights, water pump, furnace) PLUS they also contain the 120 VAC to 12 VDC Converter/Charger to charge your house batteries, ITS ALL THREE IN ONE but likely NOT any Smart 3/4 Stage Charger.

 

HOW I CONVERTED MY OLD COMBINATION CONVERTER/CHARGER AND AC/DC PANEL TO A MODERN 3/4 STAGE SMART CHARGER SYSTEM.

 

All I had to do was throw the 120 VAC 15 Amp Breaker that fed my old Converter/Charger so it no longer operated (Its still sitting there but not powered) ,,,,,,,,,,,,I left all the 120 VAC and 12 VDC Distribution in place,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I installed a new Progresssive Dynamics 60 Amp Smart 3/4 Stage Charger elsewhere in a safe location which charges my Four House Battery Bank,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I removed the old DC wiring from old converter/charger to 12 VDC distribution panel and replaced it with new heavy wiring from my house batteries to the Panel so the 12 VDC got supplied, distributed, fused and protected via the existing 12 VDC distribution panel PIECE OF CAKE ACTUALLY

 

So you see if what you have is the AC and DC Distribution panel plus old Converter/Charger, you don't have to tear everything out and replace it, SIMPLY TURN YOUR OLD CHARGER OFF AND DISCONNECT IT AND FEED THE 12 VDC PANEL FROM YOUR BATTERY BANK AND USE A NEW SMART CHARGER LOCATED ELSEWHEWRE IN A SAFE LOCATION TO CHARGE YOUR TROJAN BATTERIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

NEXT YOU ASKED .... "And, what's the cost of a new converter/charger?"

 

Okay, this is NOT an endorsement of any products, its ONLY an answer to your question. You may find lower or higher prices elsewhere. You may find better or worse quality products elsewhere. I listed some Chargers,,,,,,,,,,,Some Chargers PLUS AC and DC Distribution Panels,,,,,,,,,,,Some Combination Inverter/Chargers

NOTE you indicated you ONLY need like a 600 watt Inverter (not that expensive) and I listed some smaller 45 and 60 amp chargers (not that expensive) IN WHICH CASE YOU WOULDNT NEED AN EXPENSIVE COMBINATION INVERTER/CHARGER. Sure they are great if its what you need and can afford it, but if on a limited budget you may have to opt for a stand alone 600 Watt Inverter and a $150 Smart 3/4 Stage Charger YOUR MONEY YOUR CHOICE if you want to spend like $1,000 or maybe $350.

 

 

And, what's the cost of a new converter/charger?

 

45 Amp Smart ¾ Stage Converter/Charger $164

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PROGRESSIVE-DYNAMICS-45-AMP-RV-POWER-CONVERTER-CHARGER-PD9245-/151724761606?hash=item2353802206&vxp=mtr

 

60 Amp Smart ¾ Stage Converter/Charger $189

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PROGRESSIVE-DYNAMICS-60-AMP-RV-POWER-CONVERTER-CHARGER-PD9260-/151710272040?hash=item2352a30a28&vxp=mtr

 

45 Amp Smart Converter/Charger WITH AC and DC Distribution Panels $169

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PROGRESSIVE-DYNAMICS-45-AMP-RV-POWER-CONVERTER-CHARGER-W-AC-DC-PANEL-PD4045-/151648472788?hash=item234ef40ed4&vxp=mtr

 

Progressive Dynamics Chargers (General Search)

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H2.XProgressive+dynamics+charger.TRS0&_nkw=Progressive+dynamics+charger&_sacat=0

 

Magnum 100 Amp Inverter/Charger $999

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnum-ME2012-2000-Watt-Power-Inverter-100-Amp-Charger-2000W-100A-/131360602645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e95b3ba15

 

Xantrex 1000 Watt Inverter with 55 Amp Charger $443

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Xantrex-Freedom-Hf-1055-1000W-Inverter-W-55A-Charger-/271839565576?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f4ae69708

 

Tripp Lite 1250 watt Inverter/Charger $370

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tripp-Lite-APS1250-INVERTER-CHARGER-1250-WATT-NEW-/141631540457?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f9e5cce9

 

 

 

OTHERS MAY OFFER DIFFERENT SUGGESTIONS OR PRICES, but for your budget and minimal energy requirements: Four Trojans, 320 watts of Solar, a 600 Watt PSW Inverter, and a 45 to 60 or more Amp Smart 3/4 Stage Charger (to replace an old Converter/Charger so your batteries last much longer) should get you by fine no problems I CAN TESTIFY THAT 400 WATTS OF SOLAR AND AN MPPT CONTROLLER AND 60 AMP SMART CHARGER makes us self contained given our energy use, MAY NOT BE TRUE FOR YOU OR ANYONE ELSE MIND YOU. If you have the money to spend one of those expensive quality Magnum Inverter/Chargers will replace BOTH the Inverter and Charger, but in my case I got by with what I described above.

 

 

ANY MORE QUESTIONS we will try to help as you're such a good student. Again, listen to Jack and Yarome and Stanely (more experienced) more then me.

 

John T Too longgggggggggg retired Electrical Engineer and rusty as an old nail on this so NO WARRANTY

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John I agree with your choice of the progressive dynamics if she just wants a good converter but please note that the Xantrex is a modified sine wave inverter charger which I was avoiding on that basis and the Magnum 2000 is overkill. The 1000 model is the smallest psw inverter charger they make and can be had for $688.00

Dave and Lana Hasper

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It will shut off all of the 120 volt AC power after that panel. We know that the AC power needs to feed the converter charger so that it can convert that Av power to 12 volt dc power and charge the batteries. I was the thinking the AC power would come into the main AC panel, which you clearly have found, and then send a labeled circuit off to the converter. Seems with what you found, there are two possibilities (1) the converter is fed by one of the labeled circuits but the converter is not identified as being on that circuit or (2) the AC feeds the converter directly and does not go through the panel. I suspect it is #1. Hopefully, John and the others can shed some light. If no one knows we can try getting an answer by shutting down the main breaker and seeing if your batteries charge.

Dave and Lana Hasper

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yo Dave and Wanderer,

 

Fortunately, one of my circuit breakers was labeled "Charger", so flipping it cut the power (I left the AC and DC distribution panels and hardware all intact). Then all I had to do was remove the two old DC wires from old Converter/Charger to distribution panel and replace that with two new heavy wires from my batteries. I mounted my new PD Charger and wired it so it charges my house battery bank PIECE OF CAKE AND VERY CHEAP. While this is easy for those of us who understand electricity, its still gets a bit tough to tell her how over the net. If she's happy with her relatively inexpensive 600 watt PSW Inverter and that's big enough for her needs and doesn't want to go the combination Inverter/Charger route (Hey those are FINE units but some models are pricey if you're on a budget), all she needs is a good 45 to 80 Amp or so Smart 3/4 Stage Charger and re wire her existing DC Distribution Panel off the old charger and to her batteries AND SHES GOOD TO GO. The only decisions I see left for her are how to wire her two new 160 watt panels in Series or Parallel, and then select either a PWM or slightly more expensive MPPT charge controller based upon her vendors recommendations NOT MINE. Sure either will work, I used to have a somewhat less expensive PWM but upgraded to a MPPT and am very pleased with my choice.

 

 

PS I cant envision the existing Converter/Charger is NOT fed OUT OF the 120 VAC Distribution Panel, after and downstream from the 30 amp main breaker. Therefore it must be on one of the existing 15 or 20 amp branch circuits. Its NOT hard to figure which it is, put a voltmeter on the battery and not plugged into shore power the battery voltage will be around 12.6 volts if battery is full charged. Then plug in and have breakers on and it should eventually rise to maybe 13+ to 14 or so volts if working. As you flip breakers on and off you can see which circuit and breaker the Converter/Charger is fed from. If its NOT on an individual breaker like mine was, all you have to do is remove the wires which connect to its AC input. It may be like a piece of 14/3 Romex that's wired into the box with a Romex Clamp. Of course, dont leave any hot wires exposed, remove the charger circuit off and away from the AC panels branch circuit that serves it. This is NOT hard, it just sounds that way if your inexperienced lol

 

John T

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John T, thanks for the explanation, but as you said, "While this is easy for those of us who understand electricity, its still gets a bit tough to tell her how over the net." I will have to learn more about it, before I'd know how to wire in a Smart charger in place of the OEM.

 

As I understand it, the Smart charger decides from what source and how much to charge the batteries. If I'm never connected to shore power or use the genny, what takes precedence, the solar controller or the Smart charger?

 

I've got a lot of plates spinning... panels, batteries, wire runs, locations, inverters, chargers. I thought that was the order in which I should address my needs. Now, it seems that my advisers want the charger to be moved to the front of the priority list. Is this true? Do I need to install a Smart charger first? I'm not living in the trailer now, won't until heading south in September. It's plugged into shore power and still using the old battery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what is being suggested is that in lieu of an inverter like Xantrex SW600 for $153.00 you look at substituting a combined charger inverter unit like the magnum MS1012 for $688.00. Here are the two links. http://www.starmarinedepot.com/xantrex-prowatt-sw600-inverter.html?gclid=CjwKEAjw5J6sBRDp3ty_17KZyWsSJABgp-OaCdS9haoxXadbwLmoBobFtK9HIKWLH1IgQMMR3qJOUhoCEEfw_wcB http://www.imarineusa.com/magnumenergymms1012100winverter12vwith50apfccharger.aspx The Magnum is an ideal choice but you probably can get a different brand for less money.

 

I don't think she's gotten that far yet. In a perfect world, the little mag would be brilliant, but that's a pretty penny to sink into the charger side that she probably won't see a whole lot of use of. The solar side is her "mainstay" so investing in a decent solar controller would be money better spent. I dunno.. The shore side will probably look more like a PD converter and run a Xanny or Sammy for her inverter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And, what's the cost of a new converter/charger?

 

 

 

That's the direction I would be heading, and $149 is a VERY decent price for the 9200. All told.. going with the PD converter and a Xantrex or Samlex PSW inverter you would probably be looking somewhere around $400 including wiring, fuses, and shutoff's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now, it seems that my advisers want the charger to be moved to the front of the priority list. Is this true? Do I need to install a Smart charger first?

 

Not at all. The peripheral stuff will work itself out down the road. They're just tossing out ideas, but you have your priorities straight. Your battery bank and panels are the "core" of your system and deserve your undivided attention. The little stuff will sort itself out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Happy Wanderer, Your latest questions:

 

 

1) "As I understand it, the Smart charger decides from what source and how much to charge the batteries. If I'm never connected to shore power or use the genny, what takes precedence, the solar controller or the Smart charger?"

 

 

Actually the Smart Charger doesn't decide "from what source" its ALWAYS connected to 120 VAC when you're plugged into shore power OR you have a genset running and the RV's shore power cord is plugged into it. Its simply 120 VAC IN and 13 to 14+ DC OUT which connects direct to your batteries and charges them anytime its powered by 120 VAC (shore power or a genset) . There is no precedence, if plugged in the Smart Charger pumps charging current into your batteries if not it doesn't.

 

NEXT the Solar Charge Controller pumps charging amps into your batteries WHEN THE SUN SHINES. That DOES NOT disable your 120 VAC powered Smart Charger, it can add to and assist it. If the sun shines it can add but if not it doesn't add. THERE IS NO PRECEDENCE (other then their own individual control systems) they can BOTH be adding to your battery energy simultaneously and if one or the other is off (No 120 VAC or no sun) the other still works. I have a switch on my Solar so I have the ability to turn it off if Im plugged into a campground long periods BUT I DONT HAVE TO!!!! It would be okay if I left it on when plugged in or turned it off. YOU DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT PRECEDENCE they each take care of themselves SUBJECT TO their design and functioning and electronic control circuitry. NO WARRANTY I DIDNT DESIGN THEM NOR DO I KNOW HOW THEY OPERATE IF TWO SOURCES ARE CONNECTED. I ONLY know mine can BOTH be on never a problem, do as the vendor advises NOT me.

 

NOTE AND DISCLAIMER some of this is determined by the solar charge controller and smart chargers design and functioning. I CANT SAY THIS IS EXACT FOR ALL CONTROLLERS AND ALL CHARGERS. I can say I often leave my solar on if I'm plugged into shore power and never had a problem as each is smart technology and if possible BOTH can be pumping charging amps INTO your batteries. I have observed my solar controller ammeter and smart charger at the same time, BOTH are on and and BOTH are pumping amps into my batteries simultaneously. HOWEVER I cant say or guarantee what your brand and design of controller and charger operates ASK THEM NOT ANY OF US..................................

 

2) I've got a lot of plates spinning... panels, batteries, wire runs, locations, inverters, chargers. I thought that was the order in which I should address my needs. Now, it seems that my advisers want the charger to be moved to the front of the priority list. Is this true?

 

Like a couple others, its my opinion and advice that a Smart 3/4 Stage Charger (to replace an old dumb charger WHEN YOU CAN BUDGET IT) can greatly protect your Trojan battery investment and extend battery life. TRUE what you have can charge your batteries, that's all they had for yearssssssssssss you know. Its just how and when you want to add around $150/$175 to your budget. ID SAY FIRST PRIORITY IS SOLAR PANELS AND A SMART SOLAR CHARGE CONTROLLER (PWM or slightly more expensive but better MPPT, see my PWM versus MPPT link below)...............Next priority is that 600 Watt PSW Inverter you first mentioned................Finally when you can afford it I would upgrade an old dumb charger to a new smart charger. Or you can do the charger first (better battery charging and protection and life) if you like, WE CANT MAKE THAT BUDGET CHOICE FOR YOU

 

 

3) Do I need to install a Smart charger first?

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Its just that for say $150 to $175 your new Trojans (that $250 Investment) are better charged and better protected and their life expectancy can be increased. NOTE if you do leave it plugged in for extended time periods and have an old dumb charger SIMPLY KEEP AN EYE ON BATTERY ELECTROLYTE LEVELS AND ADD IF NECESSARY. They may be fine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its just that "some" of the old technology chargers acted more like a constant voltage source (around 13.5 or so) and did NOT back off the charge which can cause the batteries to loose electrolyte. A modern Smart Charger starts off at say 14.4 volts then backs down to 13.6 then 13.2 and theres far less worry about overcharging. IF YOU LEAVE IT PLUGGED IN AND KEEP AN EYE ON BATTERY LEVELS you can get by just fine. Then buy the Smart Charger later when its in your budget, or buy it now its your choice your investment NOT ours

 

NOTE just because this is how I converted my old dumb charger to a new smart charger (I left AC and DC Distribution Panels in place and simply disconnected the old and replaced it with new charger portion) ) DOES NOT MEAN ITS BEST OR CHEAPEST OR BEST FOR YOU. See what Yarome and Dave and Jack and Stanley have to say ALSO. This is just how I chose to do it, yet there are other ways, some cheaper some more expensive.

 

Here is an article that explains the difference in PWM and MPPT Solar Charge Controllers. What you buy is your choice, but I suggest you consult your vendors technical support staff before making your decision and do as they suggest and your budget can afford NOT me. I originally had PWM but upgraded to MPPT and am happy and well pleased and am NOT going back lol.

 

http://www.ecodirect.com/Charge-Controller-Comparison-s/251.htm

 

John T

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"As I understand it, the Smart charger decides from what source and how much to charge the batteries. If I'm never connected to shore power or use the genny, what takes precedence, the solar controller or the Smart charger?" I am going to give the same answer as John just in a different way. The solar controller and Converter operate independent of each other. You are thinking in terms of a centralized energy management system which would be wonderful but more sophisticated than what we are proposing. The solar controller and charger operate independent of each other, they just have similar goals. Both will have the goal putting electricity into the batteries up to a predetermined level and then stop (simplified version). One may influence the other, for instance the chargers electrical goal will be met more quickly if the panels are also pouring in electricity, but both the controller and charger are independently monitoring the battery voltage and shutting off when that voltage reaches a predetermined level regardless of the source of the electricity. (An analogy would be a room with two heaters in it. Each heater has it own independent thermostat. Each has the goal of warming the room to say 70 degrees. While they may assist each other in reaching that goal, they work independently)

 

I viewed the recommendation for the new smart charger as an "while your at it" kind of thing. It is not a central component to your project but replacement would be wise, if feasible, to prevent problems with your project. Not only are the new chargers less likely to fail, since they are new, they are kinder to the batteries in manner they charge.

Dave and Lana Hasper

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, thanks for the explanations. I will add a $150 Smart charger to the list of needed equipment. I would prefer to keep the charger and inverter separate in case I want to get a larger inverter in the future. I'm going to re-read all the posts today and take notes. I'm sure I'll have more questions....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me be very clear. Replace the converter. Period. Otherwise you will very likely greatly shorten the life of your battery bank. Well, unless you turnoff the converter until needed and just depend on solar when you can.....but most people do not execute that strategy well. And it can be a pain to monitor. I do see that you intend to do that....I'm just validating your decision.

 

On the converter being piggybacked on a circuit with other components.....yes, in older trailers and smaller trailers that is sometimes the case. You can trace the AC wires that feed the converter and get someone to pull and cap those wires if required and leave the converter components in place as John suggested. But if the power is "passing through" the converter to other loads, that has to be accounted for in disconnecting the converter. It is a simple procedure, but you have to know what to do....

 

Your solar panel layout is fine, as long as you have a parallel array. Just be aware that you will lose some power to shading at certain times. On smaller rigs this is almost unavoidable. Don't worry about it - just max out the array and make it as "unshaded" as possible. On smaller RVs it is my contention that the array should always be maxed out. But that is not a technical statement - simply an opinion.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ha, How do you really feel about that converter Jack? Wanderer maybe the converter replacement is a portion of the job you could get done at a dealer? Just an option. You could still save a lot on doing the rest yourself. Changing out a converter is something they have plenty experience with. Figure out your setup based on pictures may be too difficult. Is their any writing or serial number on the back of that box portion of your panel?

Dave and Lana Hasper

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yo Dave and Wanderer, Its a good thing when like EVERYONE HERE suggests you get a quality "Smart" 3/4 Stage Charger if you now have a Dumb old technology charger lol. I've owned RV's like 40 years and for yearsssssssssss that's all we had and I never had a problem......... HOWEVER I knew enough to monitor battery electrolyte level and disconnect the charger as/if required and keep an eye on battery voltage etc etc. Sooooooooooooo if you keep an old Charger on for extended periods, keep an eye on electrolyte level and battery voltage and you can "get by" (Although NOT the quality complete charge of a Smart Charger) until such time your budget and schedule allows for its replacement YOUR MONEY, YOUR BATTERY INVESTMENT, YOUR CHOICE, NOT OURS.

 

If we had a lot of good close pictures of your charger and wiring we may be better able to offer advise and opinions on replacing its charger portion (Im assuming its a Combination Charger and AC and DC Distribution Panel) It has to have 120 VAC input feeding it, perhaps 14/3 Romex (Black, White, Green/Bare) Wire through a Romex Clamp into a sheet metal box/enclosure. That's what needs to be disconnected from the Panel.

 

We report you decide.

 

Fun chat

 

John T

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jack, John T, Dave H, OK, you've convinced me I need a Smart charger. I promise I will have one installed before I hook up the new batteries. I think I'll let a local dealer do the wiring. I have enough on my plate with the solar install. Thanks again for all the information.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


RVers Online University

campgroundviews.com

RV Destinations

Find out more or sign up for Escapees RV'ers Bootcamp.

Advertise your product or service here.

The Rvers- Now Streaming

RVTravel.com Logo



×
×
  • Create New...