Medford unfriendly to RVers?

[Bobi and Dick McKee]

74 replies because you are told you can't park overnight on some ones property for free. Wow

[Biker56]

South of Medford a ways there is a $14 night Passport America campground

 

Of the 33 Walmarts in OR. 15 of them do not allow Over Night Parking or 45%.

While those of you send a email to the Melford City. Are you going to send one to the other 14??

 

That's what I thought.

 

In over 43 years of RVing I have never stayed at a Walmart overnight. But I have stayed a few times that I could count on one hand.

At Interstate rest area's & Flying J's/Pilot

 

OR. has 8 Pilot's that give a RV discount. But non of them have RV Parking.

[richfaa]

I am glad we do not have any of these problems. We stay in camp Grounds because we like the services they offer. There is usually a store or a wall mart nearby were we can do our shopping if needed. That is our solution to any such problems.

[Striper]

Reading this thread has been more entertaining than Letterman ever was.

 

Joe

[sandsys]

Maybe not waiting until after the holidays to head south is the answer. Then you run less risk of snowed in passes.

 

Linda Sand

[TCW]

I received a reply from the Medford mayor's office,.. which does elucidate their concerns fairly well. BUT, it still does not satisfy my concerns for being able to spend a few hours off the road in Medford while going north on I-5.

 

Dear Mr. Jones,

 

...We have received many emails expressing disappointment in the recent enforcement of our Code prohibiting overnight parking in Medford,..

 

The City handles Code violations on a complaint-basis. Once a citizen submits their concern, we will physically visit the site to determine whether a violation has occurred. If one is found, our Code Enforcement staff works with all parties to determine the best course of correction...

 

The recent enforcement of our Code prohibiting overnight camping began after the City received complaints from nearly every business in the north Wal-Mart shopping center. The businesses installed "No Overnight Parking" signs in their lot, but were struggling to remove those who would not comply. In addition, the businesses reported shoplifting, panhandling, camping, garbage and other issues, which they believed were caused by those staying in their parking lot. Because ensuring the public's safety and well-being is one of our top priorities, the City worked with Wal-Mart and the neighboring businesses to enforce our Code and alleviate this activity...

 

Thank you,

 

Winnie Shepard

Mayor and City Manager's Office

411 West 8th Street

Medford, OR 97501

(541) 774-2003

The wording of the Mayor's letter (the sections I bolded) got me curious, so I actually looked up the Medford Municipal Code. There are several sections that could apply to businesses allowing habitation of their commercial property. However, Section 10.859, Location and Use of Movable Structures or Vehicles Outside of Mobile Home, Manufactured Dwelling, or Recreational Vehicle Parks is the most directly applicable. It is not a new a new ordinance. It has been on the books since 2000 and last amended 2013. It would appear that the City has been exercising prosecutorial discretion in regard to RVers at Walmart for sometime.

[mr. cob]

Howdy All,

 

Well, this was an interesting read so I might as well add my drivel to the thread. I do a lot of long distance point to point traveling, I'll leave home in extreme northwest Washington and drive to places like Moab for a week and then back home, from home to Death Valley for a couple of weeks and then back home, or to my brothers home in northern Minnesota for a week or two and then back home, I put on an average of 15,000-20,000 miles or more per year. It usually takes me from two to three days to get from my home to my destination, when I get to my destination I don't have a problem paying whatever the going price is for a camp ground but while on the road I do seek out and stay at wal marts that welcome me and my money. When I stay at a wal mart, I spend money, there is always something a person needs and the super centers will have darn near anything you need, they are located right off of the main roads, they are well lit, and in my experience safe.

 

While in travel mode, I don't need water, I don't need electricity, I don't need sewer, I don't need a swimming pool, I don't need laundry facilities, in short what I do need is a safe place to spend a few hours getting rest before I move on. Some here who own camp grounds have admitted to lobbing to have places like wal mart who WELCOME over night RV'er being outlawed in that practice as they want folks to spend money at their camp ground. I will give points for them being honest, many in that position will simply lie about it.

 

If a camp ground were located close to the main roads being traveled and would allow me to stay for up to 12 hours MAXIMUM in a safe parking spot with NO amenities other then a decent, safe easy to get into and out of parking spot for 10 bucks I'd gladly give it to them. I flat refuse to pay 30+ dollars to drive out of my way to some hard to maneuver in, poorly lit, crowded camp ground with over hanging trees when all I want and need is safe place to grab a few hours sleep before moving on down the road.

 

YES, in some ways I am cheap, I prefer the word FRUGAL, I don't mind paying for something I need, but I bulk big time when people who have a personal vested interest do everything they can to get into my pocket to enrich themselves at my expense while NOT providing what I need and am willing to pay a reasonable price for. If a privet business such as wal mart or any other large store of its own free will offers its parking lot to those who are only looking to get some rest while traveling and are prevented from doing so by those who wish to line their pockets over charging those not needing the full meal deal their camp grounds offer I will go out of my way to make darned sure that I'll never spend a dime camping at their location. Yeah, I am a "Cob", Crabby old bastard, but at least I am honest about it.

 

Dave

[cactus]

Dave

X2

And well said

[richfaa]

"While in travel mode, I don't need water, I don't need electricity, I don't need sewer, I don't need a swimming pool, I don't need laundry facilities, in short what I do need is a safe place to spend a few hours getting rest before I move on. Some here who own camp grounds have admitted to lobbing to have places like wal mart who WELCOME over night RV'er being outlawed in that practice as they want folks to spend money at their camp ground. I will give points for them being honest, many in that position will simply lie about it. "

 

I completely understand that but we are all different in our travel needs. We do require water, sewer, power and 50 amp pull trough's. We usually carry enough supplies to feed ourselves for a fairly long period of time. We have not had a problem finding a C/G close to the road we are travelling. At times we do need to do laundry but we have a onboard W/D and with full hooks we can use it. We will admit to pulling into a wall mart or shopping center for needed supplies then leaving once we have them.

 

Having been a wagon master for our local camping club for some time we worked with 20/30 area campgrounds and we understand their problems. Those that have the problem of nearby wall marts or big box stores I have no problem with them lobbying against staying there.

We have also seen on a regular basis the few uncaring rv'ers who cause problems for the rest of us.

 

We winter near Disneyworld and every year we see Rv'ers in the most unlikely areas avoiding the high cost of a C.G.

 

As we have often said we have never overnighted in a big store lot, rest area or truck stop but we do appreciate the opportunity to do that. If needed. We are seeing more and more "no overnight parking" signage at rest areas and big box stores.

 

Back in the day when we were both still working and our time was limited we did not have a RV but a custom van and we did that. Travel, stop anywhere , sleep, fuel, travel ,stop anywhere , sleep, etc. We at that time preferred rest areas as we considered them more secure.

 

We now like that we do not need to do that anymore. Everyone is different.

[justRich]

74 replies because you are told you can't park overnight on some ones property for free. Wow

Yeah. . .and the first sentence of each is what gets it's point across - or not!

Streets & Trips shows 29 campgrounds within 20 miles of Medford.

Go figure!

[bruce t]

The key with this subject/debate has nothing to do with how much you do or don't pay to camp/park over night. Regardless of location.

 

The key point is CHOICE. Most/many of us went RVing to escape from everyday rules and regulations. When rules and regulation dictate where you can and can't camp/park then you need to decide on what is important to your RVing lifestyle.

 

Simple fact is that the vast majority of the USA has options and a variety of choices. The few places that limit choice can easily be avoided. Support the RV friendly locations and avoid those that don't suit your travel style.

 

regards

[wa_desert_rat]

We also travel quickly; taking turns driving and covering as much territory as we can until we either reach our destination or like some other place well enough to stop there and explore it. This is the way we traveled in our cruising sailboat and it's the way we have always traveled in our RVs.

 

I see that so many focus on "free" as if it's, somehow, un-American. But "free" is not what I focus on. I focus on the ability to stop, rest, sleep, eat, use my own bathroom, and then start again. All with as little fuss as possible.

 

The idea of "choice" was mentioned and that's what I see with communities that try to move us into their idea of acceptable use. So what if Walmart charged $10 a night to part in their parking lot overnight? No facilities (other than you could use the bathroom or buy breakfast). No power (I've heard that the bright lights in a parking lot can actually activate solar systems and put 3 or 4 amps per hous into the battery banks... but that's a side issue). No water (you could buy a few gallon jugs of water in the store).

 

Just $10 for a flat spot somewhere out of the way. Maybe a 2-night limit.

 

SKP parks do it for less than that and no one here (on an SKP sponsored forum) seems to object to it. Or is it that "unless you spend as much as *I* do you are not entitled to be on the road" as one poster said.

 

WDR

[richfaa]

"The key point is CHOICE. Most/many of us went RVing to escape from everyday rules and regulations. When rules and regulation dictate where you can and can't camp/park then you need to decide on what is important to your RVing lifestyle';

 

This caught my attention. I was not aware the being a RV'er meant we could escape from everyday rules and regulations. I thought they applied to everyone.

[mptjelgin]

Most/many of us went RVing to escape from everyday rules and regulations.

 

I seriously doubt that this is the case for even a small percentage of RV'ers.

[bruce t]

Oh dear. Some folks take things far too literally. Next time I'll be more precise and include every instance of the yes/no, for/against etc arguments.

 

But I wont because I'm out of this discussion simply because folks are failing to see/accept the big picture.

 

As I said in my original post. I was involved at state and federal levels on this very subject. (Including a federal senate inquiry). Represented RV clubs and various organizations. Was responsible for introducing a very successful scheme that has been adopted by 100's of towns and cities. And government bodies.

 

What would I know.

 

regards

[FULLTIMEWANABE]

The key with this subject/debate has nothing to do with how much you do or don't pay to camp/park over night. Regardless of location.

 

The key point is CHOICE. Most/many of us went RVing to escape from everyday rules and regulations. When rules and regulation dictate where you can and can't camp/park then you need to decide on what is important to your RVing lifestyle.

 

Simple fact is that the vast majority of the USA has options and a variety of choices. The few places that limit choice can easily be avoided. Support the RV friendly locations and avoid those that don't suit your travel style.

 

regards

Couldn't agree with you more Bruce on many points but especially your second paragraph. The only reason we want to go RVing is because we are sick to the back of the teeth with how much governing, rules and regs have come into being in our lifetimes, of no benefit to anyone other than those enforcing the bureaucratic nonsense in most cases. One can't even rear their own children that they create nowadays without over intervention and look at the problems that's led to today!!! Don't even get me started on what we have to pay in various forms or risk being thrown into jail, yet still see no direct benefit to ourselves. And you know what saddens me the most ........... because our grandchildren have known no different than what they know now, they'll never experience the freedoms we once so enjoyed as real human beings when we and our parents grew up.

 

It's all got out of hand and unfortunately united we stand divided we fall, so unless we can get enough folks in any sphere of concern whether it be RV related or otherwise to make a stand en mass then nothing will change as I'm sure many of us have experienced in our lives. I've always said if everyone refused to do/abide by 'x' then something would have to change because there aren't enough institutions to incarcerate everyone - but will it ever happen = NO, we just all continue to complain and moan without taking massive action to effect a change. Kudos to all those that attempt to affect change or even a win-win, it takes countless resolve to achieve, and sadly often at the expense of many many years of one's lifetime.

[RV_]

We preferred either Boondocking away from WalMart and town, or staying at the most convenient RV park to the highway. Now if they had no RV parks, and told us to just move on they wanted no truck with RVrs (pun int.) I would consider them RV unfriendly.

[TCW]

Interesting, a Canadian and an Australian fed up with the rules and regulations in their own countries so they come to the United States to RV and don't like the rules and regulations here either. I wonder how far I'd get going into Canada or Australia and lobbying to be able to carry a handgun. As a guest, one can choose to accept the laws of the country one is visiting or go to other countries. There are more than a few members of this forum that have said they will not go to Canada because of its laws.

 

There is a strong tradition of home rule in the United States and constitutional protections to ensure it continues. If somehow RVers would become a protected class, then perhaps there would be intervention at the state or federal level if they could show that they were being discriminated against by not being allowed to inhabitat a parking lot, street, etc. I remember the discussions about how the Forest Service was discriminating against fulltime RVers as they attempted to deal with RV homesteading in the areas around Flagstaff. One poster contacted the ACLU. I don't think they chose to get involved.

 

As far as choices, in the Medford issue, it appears that Walmart made one to ignore the local ordinance even though their stated company policy is to only allow RV overnight stays in compliance with local laws. Perhaps the city's mistake was choosing to take no action for 15 years. Now when enough RVers have caused enough problems to gather attention, its the city that gets blamed.

[Kirk W]

While I realize that this is one of those subjects which brings a wide range of opinions, I am a little bit surprised with the amount of emotion that it seems to stir in some folks.... There are in my opinion some very valid comments on both sides of the issue. A discussion of how each one of us would define RV unfriendly is of great interest to me but logical debate is of more value than an emotional one.

 

While I don't believe that all communities that work to discourage dry camping in areas other than RV parks automatically means the community is unfriendly to RV folks, at the same time a letter like the one from the mayor of Medford, describing those who do so as panhandlers, pickpockets, and vandals does make it pretty clear that she at least does not want us there. It made me wonder if she doesn't also wish to close the commercial RV parks as well... I would think that such a case is a hint that at least the mayor don't want us there and if her letter is honest that other businesses pressured her to take action against us, then one would have to assume Medford does deserve to be on that list. Since I seldom spend a night in a parking lot, that alone usually has little direct impact upon me but I do consider it to be one of the indications of how much RV travelers are desired and welcomed. There is little doubt that there are communities that do not want us or our business and who still consider RV travelers to be just "trailer trash." But there are also many communities, especially the smaller ones which welcome us with open arms and who get to great lengths to make us feel wanted and our economic contribution appreciated. I may not route out of my way to avoid passing through a place that seems not to want RVers there, but I do make some effort to avoid stopping there and to minimize any spending in the area.

[Big5er]

the mayor of Medford, describing those who do so as panhandlers, pickpockets, and vandals does make it pretty clear that she at least does not want us there.

Kirk, you are interpreting her letter based on your feelings rather than using logic. She never said RV'ers are panhandlers and thieves. She said that there had issues with panhandlers and thieves who business owners (not the mayor) believed MAY have been staying in the parking lot. As has been mentioned here already, there are many people who might be staying in public parking lots that are not RV'ers. And I would have thought you have been around long enough to know that everyone that sleeps in a travel trailer isn't necessarily an RV'er.

 

I'm not defending "camping" at Walmart for a week. But I am saying that if a city bans us from peacefully and respectfully parking at a Walmart that welcomes us - and especially if we have actually shopped there during the visit - it's not being friendly to RVs.

Since you want to tell others to look at definitions, how about this one from Wikipedia:

Parking is the act of stopping and disengaging a vehicle and leaving it unoccupied. Parking on one or both sides of a road is often permitted, though sometimes with restrictions. Some buildings have parking facilities for use of the buildings' users. Countries and local governments have rules for design and use of parking spaces.

 

Obviously you ARE defending camping at Walmart since Medford is not saying that you can not "park" there. They are saying that you can not "sleep" there. After all, it is a PARKING LOT, not a SLEEPING LOT. If you want to sleep then go find a place that was designed and made for that purpose. How hard is that to understand? Parking lots are not made for everyone that feels they want to sleep in their car/truck/motorhome to do so. As others have mentioned, you seem to believe you have some right to ignore (and complain about) how a city governs itself, when you have no interest in that city other than attempting to do what YOU want. RV'ing does not mean you are exempt from the rules.

 

Having a speed limit denies you the right to drive as fast as your RV can go Why haven't you complained about not being allowed to drive at whatever speed YOU want. WAIT A MINUTE!! I bet Medford sets their speed limit simply as another way to discourage RV'ers from coming to their city. After all, who are they to decide how fast we should be allowed to drive? Heck, the next thing you know they will put stripes on the road and expect us to stay within the lines...herding us all, like sheep. Or maybe they will put in ramps and only let us get on and off the freeways where THEY want us to. Oh my god...You were right!! DAMN, I bet they'll expect us to get a permit to drive next...and brand numbers on our cars so they can identify them!!

 

Oh Hallelujah, I have seen the light! Rules are being made to repress all the RV'ers!! How could I have been so blind all these years? Thank God I am an RV'er. Now I realize that I can just do what I want and all others be damned! Those unfriendly bastards. Thanks for opening my eyes to this travesty!!

[mr. cob]

Kirk, you are interpreting her letter based on your feelings rather than using logic. She never said RV'ers are panhandlers and thieves. She said that there had issues with panhandlers and thieves who business owners (not the mayor) believed MAY have been staying in the parking lot. As has been mentioned here already, there are many people who might be staying in public parking lots that are not RV'ers. And I would have thought you have been around long enough to know that everyone that sleeps in a travel trailer isn't necessarily an RV'er.

 

Since you want to tell others to look at definitions, how about this one from Wikipedia:

Parking is the act of stopping and disengaging a vehicle and leaving it unoccupied. Parking on one or both sides of a road is often permitted, though sometimes with restrictions. Some buildings have parking facilities for use of the buildings' users. Countries and local governments have rules for design and use of parking spaces.

 

Obviously you ARE defending camping at Walmart since Medford is not saying that you can not "park" there. They are saying that you can not "sleep" there. After all, it is a PARKING LOT, not a SLEEPING LOT. If you want to sleep then go find a place that was designed and made for that purpose. How hard is that to understand? Parking lots are not made for everyone that feels they want to sleep in their car/truck/motorhome to do so. As others have mentioned, you seem to believe you have some right to ignore (and complain about) how a city governs itself, when you have no interest in that city other than attempting to do what YOU want. RV'ing does not mean you are exempt from the rules.

 

Having a speed limit denies you the right to drive as fast as your RV can go Why haven't you complained about not being allowed to drive at whatever speed YOU want. WAIT A MINUTE!! I bet Medford sets their speed limit simply as another way to discourage RV'ers from coming to their city. After all, who are they to decide how fast we should be allowed to drive? Heck, the next thing you know they will put stripes on the road and expect us to stay within the lines...herding us all, like sheep. Or maybe they will put in ramps and only let us get on and off the freeways where THEY want us to. Oh my god...You were right!! DAMN, I bet they'll expect us to get a permit to drive next...and brand numbers on our cars so they can identify them!!

 

Oh Hallelujah, I have seen the light! Rules are being made to repress all the RV'ers!! How could I have been so blind all these years? Thank God I am an RV'er. Now I realize that I can just do what I want and all others be damned! Those unfriendly bastards. Thanks for opening my eyes to this travesty!!

Howdy Phil,

 

As you are one who extols logic over emotion perhaps you should reread your above post, then again perhaps I am reading more into your words then you meant them to convey. Have a dr pepper, step out from behind the badge and relax partner.

 

Dav

[Yarome]

Ohhh ohh.. The show already started?? What'd'i miss what'd'i miss

[mr. cob]

Ohhh ohh.. The show already started?? What'd'i miss what'd'i miss

Howdy Yarome,

 

Didn't miss much, just showing the previews of coming attractions, theres a special on hot buttered popcorn and soft drinks at the snack bar if ya hurry.

 

Dave

[Kirk W]

Kirk, you are interpreting her letter based on your feelings rather than using logic. She never said RV'ers are panhandlers and thieves. She said that there had issues with panhandlers and thieves who business owners (not the mayor) believed MAY have been staying in the parking lot.............................

Long ago in customer service course I learned a saying that applies here. "Perception is reality." Yes, I know that she said the businessmen think that, but isn't that who she also professes to be representing? I don't know just who is staying any given parking lot and it is even possible that they had some sort of problem there but none of that changes the tone of the mayor's letter at all. I made my career in customer service where we had to give our customers a reason to choose us to spend their money with, rather than require them to do so. If businesses provided attractive services at a good price, RVs would go there.

[Jimalberta]

Actually people...its a CONSPIRACY by realters. They push to dicourage us RV ers into thinking its not worth the hassle any more and will sell the RV and buy a house.

 

In reality though, I too drive from Canada and make a beeline from here to the southern desert climes for winter. Along the way we also do not require electricity or water or sewer....just a place to sleep and continue with our travels. I find trying to find an RV park that is out of the way a PITA compared to pulling off at an exit and there by golly is a Walmart....right by the hiway! Gotta love it!

 

I would gladly pay Walmart $10 for the priviledge of staying overnight but I doubt they would want to open that can of worms.

 

Another thought...if the RV sales people were really smart they would provide free parking at their lots....think of the sales they could generate by the POS rvs breaking down in their lots....lol