How much HP/Torque do you really need?

[Star Dreamer]

Few, Miles on a truck and hours run need to be looked at along with the miles on the ECM to see if there are any major differences between what the Odometer says.

 

A truck used cross country with a single driver would average about 100000 per year, team driving about 200000 per year. Regional trucks would run less miles due to time dpent loading and unloading but would have a higher run time per mile as they might be idling more while be unloaded/loaded. Since you typically can get warranty repair work records from the dealers which is usually for the first 300000 miles you should be able to verify if that truck has 600000 or 1.6 million miles. I am not sure how many digits does the Volvo odometer go up to before it rolls over.

Dave

[Deezl Smoke]

I need how ever much it takes to put a smile on my face.

 

I run tractors on the farm that have very low gearing with planetary hubs at the wheels etc. 400 hp with that gearing and pulling ground engaging implements, can give one a different, even somewhat skewed sense of what torque is and can do. So for me, if I can gain speed going up the steepest hill I will ever run, then it puts a smile on my face, and that is the amount of hp/torque I need.

[The Few]

Our 1998 volvo 610 has cummins N14 engine with a super 10 trans, I had the Volvo shop turn down the HP to help on fuel cost. We went tto the rockies and to Alaska and was able to pull most grades in 9th gear at 65 mph. We tow a 8 tire 5th wheel that is 25000# +/- and average 9/10 miles per Gal

 

I need how ever much it takes to put a smile on my face.

 

I run tractors on the farm that have very low gearing with planetary hubs at the wheels etc. 400 hp with that gearing and pulling ground engaging implements, can give one a different, even somewhat skewed sense of what torque is and can do. So for me, if I can gain speed going up the steepest hill I will ever run, then it puts a smile on my face, and that is the amount of hp/torque I need.

That's a great answer, and I don't blame you!!!

[The Few]

Few - 600,000 is low for that year of truck. These typically run to 1.5 M and in the service that we have them......

I can only wish I can find something like that, in pristine condition.. WE ALL want the best for our money, and walk away from a deal just as happy as the person selling it without regrets!!!

[CDR]

If you live out west, I think you need 450hp minimum!

 

My 2 cents.

 

Curt

[The Few]

Few, Miles on a truck and hours run need to be looked at along with the miles on the ECM to see if there are any major differences between what the Odometer says.

 

A truck used cross country with a single driver would average about 100000 per year, team driving about 200000 per year. Regional trucks would run less miles due to time dpent loading and unloading but would have a higher run time per mile as they might be idling more while be unloaded/loaded. Since you typically can get warranty repair work records from the dealers which is usually for the first 300000 miles you should be able to verify if that truck has 600000 or 1.6 million miles. I am not sure how many digits does the Volvo odometer go up to before it rolls over.

Dave

 

In your years of knowing trucks, have you ever heard or seen trucks that have been rolled over in mileage, and people violating integrity to sell them, knowing the mileage is more than observed on the odometer??

[The Few]

If you live out west, I think you need 450hp minimum!

 

My 2 cents.

 

Curt

I Whole heartedly agree with you L'iil Black Dog!!

Not only out west, but maybe some areas in the Midwest as well???

[Phil D]

To summarize and simplify what everybody that's posted in this thread has been saying, to have a truck with adequate performance with most any large trailer, what you're looking for is a truck with an engine that produces between 1650 and 1850 lb/ft of torque. When it comes right down to it, out on the highway, torque is more important that is the horsepower rating or the engine's displacement. With the exception of certain fleet-spec tractors, the vast majority of the over the highway tractors that you'll find will have engines with these ratings.

 

Most engines in that output range will have horsepower ratings between 400 and 550 horsepower (with the majority of them being between 430 and 535), so if you find the right torque rating, the horsepower will take care of itself. Engines with torque ratings of less than 1650 lb/ft but have horsepower ratings of 400 or more will likely have lower (numerically higher) axle ratios to keep the engine RPMs higher, and are likely to be less fuel efficient than a higher torque engine with similar or greater horsepower ratings, but is capable of producing its power at lower RPMs.

[Refuzn-To-Grow-Up]

Sir, you ARE the smarter folks!! You own something that is economical, powerful, AND safe!! You did exactly what (as you claim) the smarter folks did, so bravo for you.. Explaining to me how things works is one thing, but actually applying the same principal as what they are explaining to me seems to work just as well.. I'm a bit suprised with the 19mpg@65 MPH (deadhead), and 11mpg towing because those are GREAT numbers... Would you care to share Your formula on how you accomplished this? I drive slowly and keep my "foot out of it." With 16 liters of engine displacement, I am sure the fuel economy would be worse with a lead footed driver. Rear end ratio I will have to check on this., engine type, Volvo D16 with I-Shift transmission. The computer will actually put the tranny in neutral and coast down a slight grade. The first time I saw it do that I freaked out, big time! When it goes into "coast mode," fuel economy is 99mpg + mthat are you towing 37 foot toy hauler?? Because with those numbers, I am more than certain a LOT of us would LOVE to tap into that information, and incorporate some of your specs!!! Thank you Dromi!!!

[mr. cob]

Howdy The Few,

 

My truck, a 2002 Freightliner Columbia, has a 12.7L series 60 Detroit Diesel engine rated at 430-470 horse power, I don't remember the torque setting right off hand.

 

The 470 horse power rating is ONLY available when the cruise control is engaged otherwise the max power generated is 430 hp, this "dual type" of rating from what I have read and been told is typical in the larger trucks.

 

In the close to 27,000 miles I have driven my truck in the last two years its been proven time and time again when your in the mountains you can't have enough power if you want to climb the grades at speed, yeah I know common knowledge. What I have learned is to set my cruise control at a low speed, say 40mph, when in hilly terrain that way I can over ride the cruise with the throttle and have available to me the full power rating of the engine thus being able to climb the grade in a higher gear at fewer rpms. Its hard to put into words, you wouldn't think that 40 hp would make such a difference but it does.

 

When attending the West Coast Rally, one of the things I want to have done "IF" the ecm on my truck will allow it is to have the power-torque setting turned UP. Doing so if its possible, will allow me to drive in hilly terrain using more power with out having to trick the ecm by engaging the cruise control at a low speed.

 

For years I towed my trailer, well not my new one but one much like it that weighted a few thousand pounds less with a 5.9L Cummins in my Dodge pickup so I know for a fact you don't need big power to tow but it sure is nice to have it along with the CONTROL a real truck gives you over the trailer in all conditions. The old adage holds true, "There is no replacement for displacement" and this is true in spades when it comes to towing safely, economically and for over all ease of driving when it comes to towing especially in mountainous terrain.

 

Dave

[GlennWest]

 

Sir, you ARE the smarter folks!! You own something that is economical, powerful, AND safe!! You did exactly what (as you claim) the smarter folks did, so bravo for you.. Explaining to me how things works is one thing, but actually applying the same principal as what they are explaining to me seems to work just as well.. I'm a bit suprised with the 19mpg@65 MPH (deadhead), and 11mpg towing because those are GREAT numbers... Would you care to share Your formula on how you accomplished this? I drive slowly and keep my "foot out of it." With 16 liters of engine displacement, I am sure the fuel economy would be worse with a lead footed driver. Rear end ratio I will have to check on this., engine type, Volvo D16 with I-Shift transmission. The computer will actually put the tranny in neutral and coast down a slight grade. The first time I saw it do that I freaked out, big time! When it goes into "coast mode," fuel economy is 99mpg + mthat are you towing 37 foot toy hauler?? Because with those numbers, I am more than certain a LOT of us would LOVE to tap into that information, and incorporate some of your specs!!! Thank you Dromi!!!

 

What year did this become available? First I have heard of that. Also will the egr repairs eat up the extra fuel mileage. Sorry had to ask

[sushidog]

Howdy The Few,

 

My truck, a 2002 Freightliner Columbia, has a 12.7L series 60 Detroit Diesel engine rated at 430-470 horse power, I don't remember the torque setting right off hand.

 

The 470 horse power rating is ONLY available when the cruise control is engaged otherwise the max power generated is 430 hp, this "dual type" of rating from what I have read and been told is typical in the larger trucks.

 

In the close to 27,000 miles I have driven my truck in the last two years its been proven time and time again when your in the mountains you can't have enough power if you want to climb the grades at speed, yeah I know common knowledge. What I have learned is to set my cruise control at a low speed, say 40mph, when in hilly terrain that way I can over ride the cruise with the throttle and have available to me the full power rating of the engine thus being able to climb the grade in a higher gear at fewer rpms. Its hard to put into words, you wouldn't think that 40 hp would make such a difference but it does.

 

When attending the West Coast Rally, one of the things I want to have done "IF" the ecm on my truck will allow it is to have the power-torque setting turned UP. Doing so if its possible, will allow me to drive in hilly terrain using more power with out having to trick the ecm by engaging the cruise control at a low speed.

 

For years I towed my trailer, well not my new one but one much like it that weighted a few thousand pounds less with a 5.9L Cummins in my Dodge pickup so I know for a fact you don't need big power to tow but it sure is nice to have it along with the CONTROL a real truck gives you over the trailer in all conditions. The old adage holds true, "There is no replacement for displacement" and this is true in spades when it comes to towing safely, economically and for over all ease of driving when it comes to towing especially in mountainous terrain.

 

Dave

Another quote you might remember, by "Big Daddy" Don Garlits (of drag racing fame) is, "The only thing that goes faster than cubic inches is rectangular dollars."

 

Chip

[The Few]

 

Sir, you ARE the smarter folks!! You own something that is economical, powerful, AND safe!! You did exactly what (as you claim) the smarter folks did, so bravo for you.. Explaining to me how things works is one thing, but actually applying the same principal as what they are explaining to me seems to work just as well.. I'm a bit suprised with the 19mpg@65 MPH (deadhead), and 11mpg towing because those are GREAT numbers... Would you care to share Your formula on how you accomplished this? I drive slowly and keep my "foot out of it." With 16 liters of engine displacement, I am sure the fuel economy would be worse with a lead footed driver. Rear end ratio I will have to check on this., engine type, Volvo D16 with I-Shift transmission. The computer will actually put the tranny in neutral and coast down a slight grade. The first time I saw it do that I freaked out, big time! When it goes into "coast mode," fuel economy is 99mpg + mthat are you towing 37 foot toy hauler?? Because with those numbers, I am more than certain a LOT of us would LOVE to tap into that information, and incorporate some of your specs!!! Thank you Dromi!!!

 

 

 

Awesome Answer, thank you sir!!

[Jaydrvr]

I have a Cummins N14 370/430, Super 10, 3.73. My commercial plate says 66,000 lbs. At 66k, it is definitely sluggish up a hill, but at 55k or less, I'm never last and often first or in the first pack up the hill. But then again, I'm never in a hurry. I prefer to take it easy on my equipment. I've been using this combination for ten years, and am completely satisfied with it. Would more horses be fun? Sure, but I'm not paying for them... 8 mpg plus or minus, depending on load. 9.2 today, loaded lightly. I cruise at 62-63 mph. I have no need to "chip" it or turn it up. Clearly, everyone has different needs, desires, and wallets. ymmv

[the sailor]

Jaydrvr, We also cruise at 62/63 mph & just a bit below 1500 rpm, to old to be in a hurry . It helps keep the cost down.

[brunsje]

I guess it is time to 'chime in' with my opinion.

 

I drive a ShowHauler 45' Motorhome on a 2013 Cascade Chassis, towing a Dodge 4X4 CrewCab.

 

My total weight is around 45K#.

 

It has the DD16, rated at 600HP and 1850 torque; Eaton UltraShift 13 speed.

 

I have driven the longest and steepest grades in this country. Including Vail Pass both ways.

 

I have never regretted having the awesome amount of power and engine braking.

 

I get 7.7mpg over 20,000 miles.

 

On flat ground I am only using maybe 100HP, it is the hills that truly test out a Big Rig.

 

Thanks, John Bruns

[The Few]

Howdy The Few,

 

My truck, a 2002 Freightliner Columbia, has a 12.7L series 60 Detroit Diesel engine rated at 430-470 horse power, I don't remember the torque setting right off hand.

 

The 470 horse power rating is ONLY available when the cruise control is engaged otherwise the max power generated is 430 hp, this "dual type" of rating from what I have read and been told is typical in the larger trucks.

 

In the close to 27,000 miles I have driven my truck in the last two years its been proven time and time again when your in the mountains you can't have enough power if you want to climb the grades at speed, yeah I know common knowledge. What I have learned is to set my cruise control at a low speed, say 40mph, when in hilly terrain that way I can over ride the cruise with the throttle and have available to me the full power rating of the engine thus being able to climb the grade in a higher gear at fewer rpms. Its hard to put into words, you wouldn't think that 40 hp would make such a difference but it does.

 

When attending the West Coast Rally, one of the things I want to have done "IF" the ecm on my truck will allow it is to have the power-torque setting turned UP. Doing so if its possible, will allow me to drive in hilly terrain using more power with out having to trick the ecm by engaging the cruise control at a low speed.

 

For years I towed my trailer, well not my new one but one much like it that weighted a few thousand pounds less with a 5.9L Cummins in my Dodge pickup so I know for a fact you don't need big power to tow but it sure is nice to have it along with the CONTROL a real truck gives you over the trailer in all conditions. The old adage holds true, "There is no replacement for displacement" and this is true in spades when it comes to towing safely, economically and for over all ease of driving when it comes to towing especially in mountainous terrain.

 

Dave

Mr cob, thank you for your input.. Makes a LOT of sense, and I am listening sir!!

 

That is a Beautiful "truck/trailer" combination!!!

[Jack Mayer]

I'm a little late to this "party"....believe it or not I've been working on getting the campground open and not paying much attention to the forum.

 

I had a 400/1450 ISM in my 610. Pulling a 20-23K trailer it did not do what I consider an adequate job in the mountains out West. Not enough torque. I would not recommend that combination if you are pulling heavy.

 

I think the answers you have gotten are pretty good and summarized well by Phil, and Mark Bruss. You really cannot have too much torque. If you are not using it you are not paying "much" of a penalty in fuel. A little but not much. I'm running the same engine as Jim Dromi and have measured actual fuel consumption carefully. Not computer - actual hand calculation. About the best I can do with my 2009 IShift and D16/515/1850 is 13 mpg bobtail. At 65mph, and "working it". About the best I do with normal towing (letting the truck do its thing) is 9.1 mpg. And rarely that....mostly it is high 8's. But I am quite a bit heavier than Jim is. I posted my scale ticket but I think I'm about 53K.

 

(As an aside; pulling an 18K trailer for 500 miles from CO to Junction City KS I did get an actual hand measured 9.8 mpg. So weight does matter.)

 

If I was specing a NEW truck I'd spec exactly what RickS did. A D13 with 1850 torque and 2.67 ratio. I'd consider dropping that ratio (numerically higher) depending on what the simulator said. I suspect in my case it might want a little lower rear - I'm way heavier than Rick's specs.

[The Few]

I guess it is time to 'chime in' with my opinion.

 

I drive a ShowHauler 45' Motorhome on a 2013 Cascade Chassis, towing a Dodge 4X4 CrewCab.

 

My total weight is around 45K#.

 

It has the DD16, rated at 600HP and 1850 torque; Eaton UltraShift 13 speed.

 

I have driven the longest and steepest grades in this country. Including Vail Pass both ways.

 

I have never regretted having the awesome amount of power and engine braking.

 

I get 7.7mpg over 20,000 miles.

 

On flat ground I am only using maybe 100HP, it is the hills that truly test out a Big Rig.

 

Thanks, John Bruns

Thank you John, I liked that!!

 

I'm becoming a fan of the big HP/Torq club stemming from all the feedback I have recieved from everyone.. I have always LOVED big numbers, but now I can actually justify WHY those big numbers do make sense!! Fuel economy ( with a light foot), able to pull lower numbers rear end gearing at a lower RPM, thus saving internal engine and drivetrain wear, and at the same time keeping things inside the cab quiet.. I also LOVE low, deep throaty the engine sounds at lower RPM's with torque to spare!!

 

ALSO, I just "you tubed" Vail Pass just out of curiosity, and I must say that I am impressed with your journey!! I agree, in those situations when more HP and Torque does play a roll in getting from point A to point B more efficiently... Also noting that the elevation diffrence does play a roll with how the engine performs during high altitude runs..

 

I will NOT knock a smaller engine, because to me a beautiful truck it a beautiful truck, and not everyone plays in the hills like you do or even need big numbers to have a good time... It is NEVER about the numbers, it ALWAYS about the safety, and fun factor!!

BUT, I will admit that I share with others, the same passion and thought that there is just something about "BIG NUMBERS" that does it for me, JUST because I know I have it!!!

[The Few]

Jaydrvr, We also cruise at 62/63 mph & just a bit below 1500 rpm, to old to be in a hurry . It helps keep the cost down.

BEAUTIFUL truck and trailer combination sir!!!

[The Few]

I'm a little late to this "party"....believe it or not I've been working on getting the campground open and not paying much attention to the forum.

 

I had a 400/1450 ISM in my 610. Pulling a 20-23K trailer it did not do what I consider an adequate job in the mountains out West. Not enough torque. I would not recommend that combination if you are pulling heavy.

 

I think the answers you have gotten are pretty good and summarized well by Phil, and Mark Bruss. You really cannot have too much torque. If you are not using it you are not paying "much" of a penalty in fuel. A little but not much. I'm running the same engine as Jim Dromi and have measured actual fuel consumption carefully. Not computer - actual hand calculation. About the best I can do with my 2009 IShift and D16/515/1850 is 13 mpg bobtail. At 65mph, and "working it". About the best I do with normal towing (letting the truck do its thing) is 9.1 mpg. And rarely that....mostly it is high 8's. But I am quite a bit heavier than Jim is. I posted my scale ticket but I think I'm about 53K.

 

(As an aside; pulling an 18K trailer for 500 miles from CO to Junction City KS I did get an actual hand measured 9.8 mpg. So weight does matter.)

 

If I was specing a NEW truck I'd spec exactly what RickS did. A D13 with 1850 torque and 2.67 ratio. I'd consider dropping that ratio (numerically higher) depending on what the simulator said. I suspect in my case it might want a little lower rear - I'm way heavier than Rick's specs.

Ok, I am sold!! D13 engine, 1850 torque, 2.70-3.08 gearing, I-shift tansmission, Volvo VLN 780 (I love all trucks, but I am biased towards volvo from the start)... Now I just have to figure out a Truck color that is unique, but NOT TOO unique and not a pain to maintain!!!

 

AGAIN, thanks everyone,

and thank you Jack for your input!!!

[Jack Mayer]

 

ALSO, I just "you tubed" Vail Pass just out of curiosity, and I must say that I am impressed with your journey!! I agree, in those situations when more HP and Torque does play a roll in getting from point A to point B more efficiently... Also noting that the elevation diffrence does play a roll with how the engine performs during high altitude runs..

 

If you want to see a hard pulling pass look at Hoosier out of Breckenridge (good stuff starts a 6:00). I've pulled Vail and Hoosier many times. Hoosier is harder, but shorter. They both have their "attributes" as Scrap can attest to -although I don't think Scrap "works" Hoosier.

[hdonlybob]

I have a Cummins N14 370/430, Super 10, 3.73. My commercial plate says 66,000 lbs. At 66k, it is definitely sluggish up a hill, but at 55k or less, I'm never last and often first or in the first pack up the hill. But then again, I'm never in a hurry. I prefer to take it easy on my equipment. I've been using this combination for ten years, and am completely satisfied with it. Would more horses be fun? Sure, but I'm not paying for them... 8 mpg plus or minus, depending on load. 9.2 today, loaded lightly. I cruise at 62-63 mph. I have no need to "chip" it or turn it up. Clearly, everyone has different needs, desires, and wallets. ymmv

 

Great combo... I had the same exact 2001 Volvo (ex Watkins) FedEx truck.... Loved it, and with my fifth wheel weighing under ~18K and hauling my Harley behind the sleeper it was just awesome.....same rpms and speed as mentioned, and never shifted on ~8% grades at all (other than traffic and curves) then use the three stage Jake Brake down the other side !! It just don't get no better ...

Cheers,

Bob

[Darryl&Rita]

I must be the odd man out. We have a Cummins N14, and 10 speed auto-shift. We're currently set at 385 hp, 1450 tq. With the smart on board, we're right in the mid-range, weight-wise. A few keystrokes would put it up to 430 hp, but I haven't seen the need for it. Shrug.

[The Few]

I must be the odd man out. We have a Cummins N14, and 10 speed auto-shift. We're currently set at 385 hp, 1450 tq. With the smart on board, we're right in the mid-range, weight-wise. A few keystrokes would put it up to 430 hp, but I haven't seen the need for it. Shrug.

Very smart Darryl&Rita

 

I don't know why you concider yourself being the "odd one out", but in our eyes being smart, and safe was never the inclination of the assumption!!

 

You have a HDT RV hauler, pulling a large 5th wheel, and in my book that constitutes having more than enough common sence and thought..

 

The Odd one out" would be the guy that tows the same trailer with a much smaller vehicle, loaded with family members, and bordering safety issues!!!

 

I AM the odd one out, because I don't even have what you have....... YET!!! (Smile)