DRV Shake up

[GlennWest]

The DRV section seemed all right. I was reading on the Redwood section and found this.

[s106300]

Glenn West: no attachment re your post above. Georgia Hybrid: there is a list of 12 items they specifically said they won't do. Some were probably stretches, like making the medicine cabinet and linen closets bigger by adding a lower shelf with glass instead of wood shelves in the medicine cabinet. But they will not cut back the base entertainment center (which they did for you), they don't do the kitchen window standard any more but will add back in for another $250; we asked for black mesh on entertainment cabinet doors ( which Ken at RVs for Less said was done all the time) and they said no; they won't add hot water to outside shower service (also done in past); won't install standard pin box, can't install 6000W diesel with 2800W inverter. They completely blew off Ron's request for wifi antenna and ham radio wiring as well asLooks like they will now only do 30 mods (each outlet add counts as separate mod) and apparently Kyle "cherry picked" which ones they wanted to do. Kyle has not been helpful at all thus far and The communication between DRV and RVsFor Less and between RVs For Less and U.S. has been poor at best. We were already frustrated at the poor response time with both 3 or more days for every email or voice mail communication, often a week to two weeks at a time) so spent over a thousand dollars flying back to TN and talking with them face to face. We were told that DRV would do "pretty much anything you would like them to" by the dealer but thus far that is not one" (likethe case. We placed a deposit over a month ago and still haven't got a firm commitment on mods that will be done or overall price. We are now quite concerned about delivery date. We looked long and hard at all the custom models plus other high end 5th wheel units and ended up selecting DRV because we thought it the best value and closest to the decor we wanted. We are very disappointed at this whole experience. The only grat thing was Dave of Georgia Hybrid who went out of his way multiple times to share info and provide grat insights. Sadly, DRV has changed its perspectives since his order and we are the unwitting recipients of management's decisions and most likely, THOR's business model. Pretty unbelievable that they tell customers things like "we don't do that anymore" (like standard kitchen window and already provided mods) but don't inform dealers of changes. We were so excited after we saw all your mods and now feel very let down by DRV.

[s106300]

Sorry "smart software" changed several of my words "grat" instead of "great" and "that is not the case" got completely whacked.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

R & S, I'm sorry about everything that has happened. I might understand the ham radio wiring but the cabinet changes make the unit look and function a LOT better than what is std. To be honest about it, I never thought to ask about the outside shower as our prior Infinity had one and just assumed a DRV would have one as well. I was shocked when it showed up without one (just a cold water sprayer) and made sure I mentioned it to you. I will have one added to our unit (not that hard to do) at some point in the future. I know that a bunch of us have had more than 30 mods made to our units and find it crazy that they would start imposing a "limit" on them. As far as the generator goes, Ken and his crew could add that (and they are usually cheaper than the factory) so just go with the 2800 watt inverter and the generator prep and let them add it when it hits the lot.

 

Call Ken and find out which mods they would be able to handle at their place (cabinet door wire mesh is another easy one) and take them out of the build sheet and see where you are with DRV then. They need to pull their heads out of wherever that have stuffed them and start listening to customers or they are going to be JATP (Just Another Thor Product).

 

David

[rynosback]

Glenn West: no attachment re your post above. Georgia Hybrid: there is a list of 12 items they specifically said they won't do. Some were probably stretches, like making the medicine cabinet and linen closets bigger by adding a lower shelf with glass instead of wood shelves in the medicine cabinet. But they will not cut back the base entertainment center (which they did for you), they don't do the kitchen window standard any more but will add back in for another $250; we asked for black mesh on entertainment cabinet doors ( which Ken at RVs for Less said was done all the time) and they said no; they won't add hot water to outside shower service (also done in past); won't install standard pin box, can't install 6000W diesel with 2800W inverter. They completely blew off Ron's request for wifi antenna and ham radio wiring as well asLooks like they will now only do 30 mods (each outlet add counts as separate mod) and apparently Kyle "cherry picked" which ones they wanted to do. Kyle has not been helpful at all thus far and The communication between DRV and RVsFor Less and between RVs For Less and U.S. has been poor at best. We were already frustrated at the poor response time with both 3 or more days for every email or voice mail communication, often a week to two weeks at a time) so spent over a thousand dollars flying back to TN and talking with them face to face. We were told that DRV would do "pretty much anything you would like them to" by the dealer but thus far that is not one" (likethe case. We placed a deposit over a month ago and still haven't got a firm commitment on mods that will be done or overall price. We are now quite concerned about delivery date. We looked long and hard at all the custom models plus other high end 5th wheel units and ended up selecting DRV because we thought it the best value and closest to the decor we wanted. We are very disappointed at this whole experience. The only grat thing was Dave of Georgia Hybrid who went out of his way multiple times to share info and provide grat insights. Sadly, DRV has changed its perspectives since his order and we are the unwitting recipients of management's decisions and most likely, THOR's business model. Pretty unbelievable that they tell customers things like "we don't do that anymore" (like standard kitchen window and already provided mods) but don't inform dealers of changes. We were so excited after we saw all your mods and now feel very let down by DRV.

 

Are you even sure the problem is DRV? I ask because I tried to call Ken and left him 3 voice mails and two messages with people. And he returned ZERO calls. That knocked them out of the running from the dealers I was looking at. There is another person looking to buy a DRV and she is having the same issues. Maybe I'm wrong, but these are facts as I know them.

[GlennWest]

So sorry about your problems. I no longer own a DRV and don't ever intend to own another. But they were the best mass produced units. My post was about the Redwood section of the forum with Thor. Nothing about your situation.

[rynosback]

My wife wanted a Redwood when we first started looking. And I did not like the I beam frame it has. The trailer seemed to be more dressed up then built heavy.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Try calling DRV direct and see what they have to say and then call Karen at RV's For Less.and talk to her. Like I said above, it might be better to let RV's For Less install the "easy" to add items after they pick up your unit. Did DRV say they would make the bathroom changes like ours? If they are willing to do that, I don't understand the refusal to make the changes on the entertainment center.

 

Keep calling DRV until you get an answer from someone and then pin Karen down on her end. Ken is usually busy on the lot or with the shop guys and really needs to be cloned. Karen was always a big help in those situations to cut to the chase.

[s106300]

Problem is both Ken at RVs for Less and Kyle at DRV. Ken is very unresponsive to phone calls and emails and Kyle wasn't much better when we were talking to him. We will try to call Kyle today and will call Karen as well. At the very least both should tell us what they can and can't do based on our discussions with Ken and do it timely. Very poor customer service all around. Kyle sent an email to Ken on Fri April 24 and he passed it on to us when we finally connected with him in real time on the 27th. Note that we flew out Mar 31 and talked with Ken on April 1st and 2nd. It is now May 1st and we are no farther along than this email and the spec sheet below. The spec sheet addresses some of the wiring partially but does not address the whole system (like cat 5 for solar prep and antenna - there are additional components that were requested by not addressed either as in or out.) We asked for the new SMEV Dometic stove and Kyle apparently told Ken verbally that "they can't get it." However, Trailer Life says it is just a matter of manufacturer calling them. Ken said he would do that but we have heard nothing.

 

Ken Rife

• Apr 27 at 12:06 PM

To

• s17aurora@yahoo.com

God Bless!

Sincerely,

Ken Rife

General Manager

Dealership Location:
8035 Rutledge Pike

Knoxville, Tennessee 37924
Office: 865-521-9112

Tollfree: 877-643-7532
Fax: 865-971-4277
www.rvsforless.net

Visit us online at www.rvsforless.net to view our entire inventory of both new and used units!

From: Kyle Miller [mailto:KyleMiller@DRVSuites.com]
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 8:58 AM
To: karen@rvsforless.net; Ken Rife
Subject: RON & MICHELLE JOHNSTON

Good Morning,

Attached is the special option sheet that I revised from what Ryan had. Please see attached for it, and the pricing.

I did not do the main order form, which you have, but here are the things we will not be able to do on this order as I have it:

1. With the 2800w inverter we cannot install a 6000W diesel. The gen box gets too big and no room to install 2^nd battery box and inverter.

2. Make medicine cabinet taller, or make shelves glass and adjustable

3. Make linen cabinet in bathroom bigger

4. We do not offer the dyson pet cordless

5. We can add a light under the bed, but we do not have the “automatic turn on switch”

6. Cannot get old style elite chairs from our supplier any longer.

7. Cannot change dinette table length, or add a 10” drop leaf.

8. Can’t add black mesh to center entertainment cabinet doors

9. Not going to “cut back” the base entertainment center. We are already redesigning it.

10. There are no longer windows in our backsplash. If they want a window we have to now charge $250

11. Cannot add hot water in outside service center.

12. Cannot intall a standard pin box any longer. We were having issues with the head brackets bending on trucks/hitches because the standard pin is so shallow. Have to use Mor-ryde or Trail-Air on all Mobiles & Elites.

We are also pretty uncomfortable doing too much more to this coach. It has 30 special items on it already, and if we get further into the radio aspect I fear that we could miss something for them, and I do not want to risk that.

Thanks,

Kyle

Here is the list of exactly 30 items (selected by Kyle, not us) that we were sent. We have still not seen a order write up from Ken and do not know specifically what he passed on to Kyle. Note that our "free chairs" is one of the "mods".

RON & MICHELLE JOHNSTON

 

ELITE SUITE – 38RSSA

 

1. MAKE BEDROOM VANITY SLIDE BASE CABIENT STRAIGHT ACROSS - $300
2. DELETE POWER LIFT, AND WINDOW, INSTALL 55” TV - $500
3. MAKE OVERHEAD CABINETS ABOVE TV STRAIGHT ACROSS (BRING THEM OUT SO THEY ARE DEEPER) - $250
4. ADD A WIRE CHASE FROM CENTER OF TV AREA TO LEFT BASE CABINET BELOW TV - $100
5. ADD LED LIGHTS TIED TO SEPARATE SWITCH IN OVERHEAD TV COMPONENTS CABINET - $50
6. MOVE FIREPLACE TO “RIGHT SIDE” OF BASE CABINET AND INSTALL 2 DOORS ON LEFT W/ PULL-OUT TRAY - $400
7. DELETE QUARTZ, ADD MOBILE SUITE CORIAN - <-$550>
8. ADD MOBILE SUITES BACKSPLASH – N/C
9. ISLAND AND TOE KICK TO BE WHITE LED LIGHTS – N/C
10. ADD A 110V OUTLET TO DINETTE SLIDE WALL BESIDE THEATRE SEAT CENTERED IN WALL - $100
11. DELETE INDUCTION AND ADD 3 BURNER GAS W/ POWER LID - $150
12. DELETE POWER SHADES - <-$1000>
13. UNIT TO HAVE ALL 12V DIMMER SWITCHES, NO ROCKER FOR 12V - $200
14. ADD AN ADDITIONAL 110V OUTLET UNDER OVERHEAD CABINET ON EACH SIDE OF CONVECTION. (2) ON EACH SIDE. NEW OUTLETS TO BE ON OUTER ENDS OF CABINET - $200
15. ADD PANTRY SHELF ABOVE APPLIANCE GARAGE - $30
16. IN BATHROOM DELETE SHELF IN LINEN CABINET AND ADD CABINET DOOR - $30
17. SQUARE OFF BATHROOM WALL AND INSTALL LARGER, SQUARED, VANITY IN BATHROOM - $500
18. ADD 110V OUTLET IN BASEMENT ON ODS HEADER ABOVE MANIFOLD - $100
19. ADD 2” RISER TO FRAME, ADJUST JACK HEIGHT - $300
20. ACRYLIC FABRIC ON MAIN AND DINETTE AWNING - $400
21. EXTEND PAINT STRIPING ON END WALLS OF EACH SLIDE (4) - $2800
22. DELETE THEATRE SEAT AND SOFA - <-$750>
23. CUSTOMER REWARD VOUCHER – FREE FOLDING CHAIRS - <-$250>
24. DELETE GLASS ABOVE SOFA AND INSTALL RAISED PANEL DOORS - $100
25. RUN A CAT 5 WIRE FROM COMPONENT OVERHEAD TO CENTER CABINET ABOVE SOFA - $200
26. DELETE WINEGARD RAZOR ANTENNA AND INSTALL A TRADITION MANUAL CRANK ANTENNA AND INSTALL JUST IN FRONT OF ROOF TRANSITION - $100

1. RUN A BLACK & RED (+/-) #8 WIRE FROM BATTERIES TO LOWER LEFT BASE CABINET OF ENTERTAINMENT CENTER. INSTALL A 40AMP INLINE FUSE FOR THIS IN THE BATTERY BOX - $400
2. INSTALL (4) CUSTOMER SUPPLIED AGM BATTERIES. (GETTING THE 2800W INVERTER SO THERE WILL BE 2 ON EACH SIDE OF GENERATOR) - $400
3. INSTALL A 110V OUTLET ON LIVING ROOM SIDE OF ISLAND, 6” ABOVE FLOOR - $100
4. ADD AN ADDITONAL 110V OUTLET IN TV OVERHEAD CABINET - $100.

Thanks for the tip about Karen. We will try her.

[TXiceman]

All I can say is ...Way to go Thor.

 

Ken

[Cyberdave]

I just joined that site and unfortunately it reads like "Praise Thor" to me. Sorry to be negative but that is what I read.

That's the way it is on the Landmark forum. The moderator is a "protect the brand at all costs" type and if you're critical of build issues, quality he jumps in and either criticizes, modifies or even deletes a post. So basically it's an hail Thor forum.

 

The only way to get a post looked at is the ask the factory sub forum...he cannot mess with those posts.

[Cyberdave]

I'm afraid it is the way the industry is going. We own a Hitch Hiker 363RSB. When they closed their doors we happened to be at the factory to have some items added to the rig. I had a long conversation with the owner Mike Mitchell about why they were shutting down. In a nut shell, as others have already stated, most RV buyers are most interested in price. He said they don't care to hear about the frame, the structure etc. Our rig was 100k when we bought it and he said they see other brands with larger rigs for 70k so that's the way they go.

 

Yep, yep and double yep.

 

It's the Wally World mentality. I want the best quality for junk prices. It got so bad in the m/c parts business a few shops shut their sites down rather than trying to appease the I want a Porsche for a used Pinto price crowd.

[Jack Mayer]

I'm actually surprised they would agree to do all the stuff on the list above. Knowing how their production must work it would surely screw up the production line. Some of the cabinet changes are not trivial and would cause the most disruption. Also, getting components not normally sourced is a MAJOR headache for most manufacturers. In some cases they have to resort to buying them retail just to get them if their suppliers do not handle them. Establishing an account with another supplier is not worth it for a single component.

[rdickinson]

changes to the cabinets most definitely a major pain. We discouraged them and charged $500 to start with. I adopted the practice Uniflite boats had in place. No changes after a certain point before production. Any changes were done after the boat was completed to original specs.Some but not all of the manufacturers concerns are

 

-Grain of wood, matching veneer.

-Dye lots of stain.

-Batch lots of matching stain.

-Machine settings for matching components

-Number of or style of hardware

-Being able to get changed component into the rig thru man door.

 

This is a big area to lose money on.

[rynosback]

That's the way it is on the Landmark forum. The moderator is a "protect the brand at all costs" type and if you're critical of build issues, quality he jumps in and either criticizes, modifies or even deletes a post. So basically it's an hail Thor forum.

 

The only way to get a post looked at is the ask the factory sub forum...he cannot mess with those posts.

The Thor owners group does not mod like that. They are not owned or run by Thor. I personally spoke to the admin there over the phone as I did not understand the limits that they placed on new members. I mean I very familiar with how a form works and it's features. She really had a good head on her shoulder. And she admins another HUGE RV forum also. I can not remember the name of it right now.

[Cyberdave]

I was referring to the Heartland Owners Forum owned and operated by Heartland which is a Thor company.

 

Heartland Owners Forum

[GeorgiaHybrid]

1. With the 2800w inverter we cannot install a 6000W diesel. The gen box gets too big and no room to install 2^nd battery box and inverter.

2. Make medicine cabinet taller, or make shelves glass and adjustable

3. Make linen cabinet in bathroom bigger

4. We do not offer the dyson pet cordless

5. We can add a light under the bed, but we do not have the “automatic turn on switch”

6. Cannot get old style elite chairs from our supplier any longer.

7. Cannot change dinette table length, or add a 10” drop leaf.

8. Can’t add black mesh to center entertainment cabinet doors

9. Not going to “cut back” the base entertainment center. We are already redesigning it.

10. There are no longer windows in our backsplash. If they want a window we have to now charge $250

11. Cannot add hot water in outside service center.

12. Cannot intall a standard pin box any longer. We were having issues with the head brackets bending on trucks/hitches because the standard pin is so shallow. Have to use Mor-ryde or Trail-Air on all Mobiles & Elites.

 

1) Went and measured our generator box. With a battery compartment on each side, the 6000 watt diesel generator will not fit in the hole that is left, never knew that generator was THAT big.....

2) Glass shelves are a bad idea mixed with medicine.... They can break and cause a big mess as the are in the weak axis of the material.

3) Don't know why the wouldn't do this one unless they have something going on with the back of the pantry that we don't know about.

4) Delete the unit the Elite comes with and buy one retail. That is what they will have to do and they will charge a premium to do it. They by the one they offer by the the hundreds. RV's For Less could also add it for you..

5) Have them add the 12 volt LED like we have and then buy a universal trunk light switch and wire it to the ground side of the circuit (not the 12V + side). Takes about 30 minutes or so max. If nothing else, Ken at RV's For Less could have that done for you.

6) Delete the chairs and shop around and buy your own. I know a bunch of people that have done that. You might ask them for their supplier and call them directly to see if they still have some old stock.

7) I can almost understand this one, I can see someone bring in the slide with the leaf up and pushing the island over or pushing the table top thru the side of the slide. I think this is just a CYA denial for potential damage.

8) Don't know why but RV's For Less or any cabinet shop can do this after the fact. They just route out the center panel and cut a ledge for the mesh to attach.

9) Mine was just a factory unit with less depth, you are moving the shelves to one side and making one big printer shelf, moving the fireplace and several other changes. He might be saying enough already...

10) Just now noticed the kitchen window has been deleted. Ask him to move the one behind the TV that you "deleted" and put it in the kitchen...... If nothing else, I would pay to put it in as that will be the only window on that side of the trailer.

11) This is the one I still can't believe. RV's For Less should be able to add on for you. I will more than likely add on myself this year to our unit.

12) With the weight these units have, I can understand this one. Have them add a Mor-Ryde pinbox and enjoy your trailer. I know that it is not a required pinbox with the ET hitch you will have but it doesn't hurt anything either.

 

All in all, they have done a LOT of the changes and some of the ones that are left are major but you will need to ask yourself if they are liveable. If they are, go with it. A custom New Horizons or equal would make those changes but you will be paying about $75,000 or more for that privilege.

 

Wish I could help more but I all I can do is offer encouragement....

 

David

[Jack Mayer]

A custom New Horizons or equal would make those changes but you will be paying about $75,000 or more for that privilege.

 

 

Really? I know my New Horizons pricing pretty well. You are not paying a $75K upcharge to build a custom NH if you do apples to apples comparison (as much as is possible of course). I'm not saying it is not more - it is, for sure. But it is not $75 K more on a typical build. Of course it varies based on what you want. (I'm comparing against an Elite).

 

The Elite is a nice unit, and when you could make reasonable changes it filled a market niche below the custom builders very well. It was a good deal if it met your needs. It will be interesting to see how they position the Elite as time goes on. I'd also say, that if you are NOT taking full advantage of customization from the custom builders (New Horizons, Fork, Spacecraft) then you really have to consider if the upcharge based on better infrastructure (alone) is worth it. My point is - if buying from the custom builder you really NEED to customize to get your full moneys worth. JMO.

[rynosback]

I was referring to the Heartland Owners Forum owned and operated by Heartland which is a Thor company.

 

Heartland Owners Forum

 

Never read that one. There might be some good information on there but I do not like going to manufacture owned websites. But I think it is GREAT that they watch them and even participate in them.

[s106300]

Still slugging it out with DRV and RVs for Less. Jack, we would not have asked for mods without knowing that Dave had already gotten most of them. Others we asked for were in the "nice to have" category except for generator and networking. We would have been ok with a simple no to specific mods in some timely fashion but are now going into the 6th week trying to get this hashed out. Had long fruitful discussion with Ken at RVs for Less but still trying to both straighten out multiple mistakes made by dealer on order write up and get final decisions on requested mods. New Horizons is a fine product but there were some features we did not care for and felt the premium required to change to what we would like to be high. Dave, easy enough to get after market chairs and vacuums and already working that angle; RVs for Less is going to take on some mods themselves but not yet finalized yet. They have a unit with a 6000W generator built in with 3 lithium batteries right now on lot so can be done. Both DRV and RVs for Less are critically short staffed and it is showing. Ken is making a solid effort at this point but trying to be to many things at once and it is resulting in errors. We are working closely with him.

[Jack Mayer]

Wow, you found lithium batteries installed by a manufacturer? Really? I'd be looking real hard at that "feature", because my experience is that manufacturers struggle with anything abnormal, and LFP packs require certain things that most manufacturers (including New Horizons, Forks and Spacecraft) are not familiar with.

 

Off the forum I'd be interested in what you found on the NH that you did not like. Granted, the cost is quite a bit more, but I'm curious about the features you found lacking. That is all it is - curiosity. But it might result in product improvements.

[whatsnext]

Just my $.02 because I don't have a dog in this fight.........

 

Our DRV Houston was just completed from the factory and is on it's way to the dealer. We had approximately 20 changes to the build which DRV had no problem with incorporating into our plan.

DRV does customizations but only to a point where it makes sense for their production capabilities and quality. They are not total custom. If you want that then you need to go to NH, Spacecraft or Forks.

 

DRV has limitations because they are still a production line oriented company and that's why they can produce a quality product for less than a custom build.

 

I have been speaking with Kyle since the beginning and he has always been extremely responsive (no more than 24 hours) with a response measured in hours not days.

Kyle also commented that DRV is still building units in the same fashion as before and will still look at the same level of customizing as before (there have always been limitations).

 

This is not a paid endorsement but simply my personal experience which to date has been a great experience.

 

David

[rmalikone]

Mine is in paint as we speak. We did a bit of customs to our unit. Kyle has been very kind and help full when ever I have called. I know that Ryan left. i can not remember where he went to. Here are my build pics http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f29/2016-38rsb3-build-1447.html

I also had Thor owners open a DRV section on there forum. The mod there really knows how to run a forum there.

Ryan Miller went to Augusta RV and I had a nice conversation with him as to the Luxe line. He stated that they are an alternative to Mobile Suites, not a box frame but not the standard Lippert frame and spec'd just for them. Augusta is looking into building frames in-house or some other provider other than Lippert.They are looking to be 100% Lippert free. A 3.25 or 3.5 Hung walls and that they semi-customize. He also feels that bad changes may come to DRV and mentioned that warranty issues will may become very strict, whereas DRV use to be very liberal prior, doing work that was out of warranty etc...

[rynosback]

It was sad to hear that Ryan left DRV. Not sure as to how it went down, but I know the grass is never greener on the other side. I'm sure he will do well there. Only time will tell what changes happen with DRV. Hopefully they let them do there thing as it has made them what they are today. They could increase there buying power and build at a lower cost because of that and have a more profitable bottom line. I mean every company strides for that.