alan0043 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Hi Everyone, How far would you pull your trailer if you had no trailer brakes ? I don't think that my brake controller is working. How do I check the brake controller out ? I want to leave on Friday for the ECR. If I don't have trailer brakes, would you chance it ? Can someone help me with the brake controller ? Al 2012 Volvo VNL 630 w/ I-Shift; D13 engine; " Veeger " Redwood, model 3401R ; 5th Wheel Trailer, " Dead Wood " 2006 Smart Car " Killer Frog " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark and Dale Bruss Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Which brake controller? Please click for Emails instead of PM Mark & DaleJoey - 2016 Bounder 33C Tige - 2006 40' Travel SupremeSparky III - 2021 Mustang Mach-e, off the the Road since 2019 Useful HDT Truck, Trailer, and Full-timing Info atwww.dmbruss.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan0043 Posted April 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Which brake controller? The only name that I can find on the controller is on a blue sticker on the back. The name is CEQUENT # P000050717. That is the only info that I can find. I hope it can help. The Trademark is CEQUENT. Al 2012 Volvo VNL 630 w/ I-Shift; D13 engine; " Veeger " Redwood, model 3401R ; 5th Wheel Trailer, " Dead Wood " 2006 Smart Car " Killer Frog " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark and Dale Bruss Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 That probably makes it a Draw-Tite, basic proportional controller. The simplest test is to put a voltmeter on the Blue out of the controller and apply the Manual button. If you read voltage, then the controller, at least in the manual mode, is working. If the controller is working them work back. Check for voltage at the trailer umbilical cord Blue wire. Then at the brakes. It is easy for a broken wire to give you no brakes in the trailer. As far as a controller, there is an article on those in the Resource Guide. As far as towing. You truck has the stopping power for the rig but the distances will be longer. But running without =trailer brakes is very risky. You trailer weight is approaching your truck weight. In a straight line, truck only brakes aren't too bad but if the trailer is off at an angle to the truck, it will be easy for the trailer to push the rear end of the truck. I lost my trailer brake hydraulics a couple of years back and finished the leg of the trip to get to an area where I could get them repaired, about a 100 miles. It was a very tense time. I kept the speed very low. If at all possible, I would fix your brakes before leaving. Please click for Emails instead of PM Mark & DaleJoey - 2016 Bounder 33C Tige - 2006 40' Travel SupremeSparky III - 2021 Mustang Mach-e, off the the Road since 2019 Useful HDT Truck, Trailer, and Full-timing Info atwww.dmbruss.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkennell Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 It would depend totally on the traffic and terrain. AUS outback...brakes, whats them? Joking aside, are you running thru mountains? All Interstate? Lots of little towns? You would probably be fine...the problem is you can't tell when that last little extra bit will be needed. (Although with a basic controller you might find it hasn't been doing much anyway....thats what I discovered after I put in a MAxbrake. Seriously--do the tests. Just unplug the trailer and measure the brake pin to ground on the truck plug while somebody holds the manual slide over. You should have 6-12V depending on the controller. Then work forward or back. OH--measure to both chassis ground AND the ground pin to make sure the ground wire is good, as well. Borrowed a car hauler the other day---plugged it in and smoke started rising from near the left rear axle. After some investigation I found that A) the brake wire on the trailer was run to the 12V charge wire in the plug, B ) no brake coils were attached to the wiring anymore, and C) the brake feed wire had been wire nutted to the ground wire. I cooked about 12" of wire.... I ended up darn near rewiring the whole trailer to get rid of all the poor (scotchlocks) connections before the brakes and lights would all work. I was pulling it with the LDT, though, so no way was I going without brakes! No camper at present. Way too many farm machines to maintain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamianF Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 If it were me, I'd only tow the trailer as far as a service shop if you can't fix it yourself. I don't think you could reasonably or reliably stop the rig on a slightly oil filmed road/intersection when it's raining or recently rained, straight line or not. Damian'83 W900B, 3406B, RTO14615, 355 tandems, '95 Carriage Carriage triple axle reluyog@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabbie Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 You don't need them brakes.....LOL, just watch the trafic flow and weather conditions. Myself I went all summer a few years back with just one wheel with power. That was towing with my F250. I think I did about 4000 miles that year, Home (Windsor, Ontario)to Crossville then general camping around home ,then home to Marathon, Ontario. Both through mountain ranges. I had a broken wire on the trailer, cut power to all but the front driver wheel. I found the issue at the end of that season. Ignorance is some times scary. I would do that hook up and tug , I would feel that one wheel grab, just thought I had crappy trailer brakes. Ralf, {honeagle} lost his brakes last year, we figured that one out on the way home from Marathon, Ontario. He had the Volvo, I dont think he even really noticed any stopping distance issues. Just watch the weather, wet roads need more caution. Get to the rally and we all may be able to come up with a fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan0043 Posted April 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Hi Everyone, I think that I have a broken wire or butt connector that came apart. How to I test the wires coming from the controller ? What color wire gives me 12 volts ? Also what color wire is ground ? I can unplug the controller and get to the plug. Can I do test at the plug ? Thanks guys for the help, Al 2012 Volvo VNL 630 w/ I-Shift; D13 engine; " Veeger " Redwood, model 3401R ; 5th Wheel Trailer, " Dead Wood " 2006 Smart Car " Killer Frog " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan0043 Posted April 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Hi Everyone, I believe I have good news. I found two butt connectors that pulled apart. I replace the connectors with new ones for right now. After the ECR I will re-do the job with soldier and shrink tubing. The controller seems to be responding. Thanks to everyone for your help, Al 2012 Volvo VNL 630 w/ I-Shift; D13 engine; " Veeger " Redwood, model 3401R ; 5th Wheel Trailer, " Dead Wood " 2006 Smart Car " Killer Frog " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 I've had three times where the trailer brakes failed. Twice it was my own fault, and the last it was in Alaska. A crimp had failed on a ground wire inside the Jackalopee. It was discovered when a mechanic went to unplug the wire and his hand slipped, and he pulled the wire out of the terminal. Use quality terminals and a good crimping tool. That particular terminal (slightly undersized) was one I grabbed out my wiring assortment, which had been "re-stocked" by my dad, who bought supplies at Harbor Freight. I went through the assortment and pitched all those. BTW, all three times I ran without trailer brakes, I didn't notice it until I did a "tug" test. These trucks are great. KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 "I no need no stinkn' brakes with HDT" I've pulled with no trailer brakes for years (at various times). I have BluDot air over hydraulics but the brakes themselves need a major rebuild (age, etc.). Since I don't pull that often anymore (living in Paradise full time now) fixing the brakes moved way down in priorities. Last year I pulled 1,600 miles up (to National Rally) and 1,600 miles back with no RV brakes, truck stops everything fine. One bit of caution, in the rain things can get dicey (rig will want to come around the truck) if you try to brake hard.So I just build a bigger distance from the guy in front of me in the rain. My fifth is 40 feet long and weighs 22,500 pounds loaded, three axles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJTroy Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 We had our trailer brakes fail on us once. It was white knuckle driving for sure. I would drive it just far enough to get to a repair shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 We had our trailer brakes fail on us once. It was white knuckle driving for sure. I would drive it just far enough to get to a repair shop. Three white knuckle situations, twice bad controller, once braking system going south. All three times pulling the fifth with a pickup. With HDT under the fifth wheel hitch, no sweat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJTroy Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 We were only pulling a pop up and (theoretically) had *plenty* of towing capacity. That's when I learned the difference between "towing" capacity and "stopping" capacity. Once was enough, we now have plent of both, even if the trailer brakes go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 We were only pulling a pop up and (theoretically) had *plenty* of towing capacity. That's when I learned the difference between "towing" capacity and "stopping" capacity. Once was enough, we now have plent of both, even if the trailer brakes go. The pickup peddlers like to talk about "towing capacity" because those are testosterone conversations. Stopping capacity discussions bring up needs for Depends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alie&Jim's Carrilite Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 We, ummm, ahhh, only have 3 working brakes right now. If the ground in Crossville is a little drier than southern Mississippi, then I'll try to get 4 working again! I have pulled with none to all working with a Pick-em-up. Not ever doing that again. With the Volvo, I have to be careful when I do the pull test otherwise I can just drag the camper along. Alie & Jim + 8 paws 2017 DRV Memphis BART- 1998 Volvo 610 Lil'ole 6cyl Cummins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverEasy Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 The best way to KNOW that your trailer brakes are getting a signal to work is with a DC clamp-on amp meter. Clamp it around the blue wire at the controller. Set the adjust to maximum. Slide the manual over-ride switch and the amperage will vary from 0-about 11.5 amps. Then mash the brake pedal and insure you get something. It is difficult to say what that might be while the truck is sitting still but it should read something. Dexter says each magnet will pull 3 amps at 12.4 Volts DC applied. 4 magnets=12 amps However, wiring and connection resistance will usually only allow the maximum amperage to get to in the mid-11 amp range. I might add here, too, that having DC voltage on the blue wire does not mean you have a complete circuit to draw amps. If there is an open in the wiring, trailer connector, or bad magnets you will see DC Volts but no amperage. On the flip side, if the blue wire is shorted to ground somewhere along the path, you will see a lot of amps for a short period of time. It is a good idea to get a baseline on your brake circuit with an amp meter and then check it periodically. If you loose a magnet, the current will drop by 1/4. Bad connections or poor trailer connector will show up as lower amp draw. If you have problems, you can do a quick check to see if it is the truck or trailer. Disconnect the trailer connector, clamp the meter around either (but only one) of the two wires on the emergency brake-away switch and pull the pin. This applies the trailer's house battery directly to the brakes. You should read around 11.4 amps (assuming the trailer batteries are good). Another good idea (unless you have a MaxBrake controller which I understand has one built-in) is to connect a DC amp meter directly in line (series) with the blue wire on the controller. Then every time you hit the brakes you can tell if your system has a complete circuit to work through and how well it is. The amp meters that read from 0-15 amps are really inexpensive. I had intended to do a "show and tell" at the ECR but had to cancel due to some recent health issues. Sorry I am going to miss the event. Chet Chet & Deb '01 Volvo 660 w/ Smart '19 Forest River Columbus 320RS 5th wheel 2022 Chev 2500HD Long Bed Retired CWO4, USN and federal service Electronics Tech/Network Engineer/Welder/Machinist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refuzn-To-Grow-Up Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 On my last trip, the trailer plug had worked its way loose (meaning I had no trailer brakes). The only thing that I noticed was I had to apply a little more pedal pressure to stop the rig. I drove down the El Cajon pass at 45 mph on the jake brake. For you non California residents, the El Cajon is long and steep, with a mandatory 45mph for trucks. When I turned the lights on, I noticed that the trailer did not have running lights. And, then I realized that I had no trailer brakes. Had I been in my Ford F550, I would have been looking for the run away sand trap and then the nearest ER. I would never recommend driving without trailer brakes. However, after that experience, I am confident that I could safely stop my rig, without trailer brakes. I am so thankful that I stumbled upon this website and bought an HDT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 The pickup peddlers like to talk about "towing capacity" because those are testosterone conversations. Stopping capacity discussions bring up needs for Depends. We nearly had a Depends moment once upon a California downgrade, in the winter darkness, when the DEB's* had a failure... HDT planning began over coffee the next day. MaxBrake unit had failed. *Damnphool electric brakes "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billr Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 For elec brakes a real quick test to see if you are getting power to each wheel, take a compass by the wheel and apply brakes. It will deflect. Heard this from a trusted RV tech. When we had elec brakes on a fiver 10 years ago, had a few things go on....one was new trailer, brakes were not adjusted from factory or dealer. Way out! Then later only one wheel had brakes...was a Yahoo moment in the Chevy seat! After all sorts of T/S found wires inside axle chaffed to bare and shorting to tube inside. They just swing back and forth inside and wear. Had to pull them out to see after nothing else was wrong. Rewired to Outside the tube! All was good again. Bill and Joan and 3 Collie pups 2001 Volvo VNL 770 "The Doghouse" Singled short, "ET" hItch VED12 465HP Gen 1 Autoshift 3.58 ratio 2005 Mobile Suite 38RL3 2011 Smart Passion loaded piggybacK Weigh-It Portable RV Scales http://www.weighitrv.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIBERNUT Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 Just understand, if you get in an accident and you KNEW the brakes didn't work, that's gross negligence and a good lawyer will hang you out to dry. For a lifetime. 2000 Volvo 635 A/S, N-14 Cummins"The Phoenix"'03 KA 38KSWB http://s918.photobucket.com/user/sibernut/library/?sort=6&page=1Furkids- Sibe's CH. Sedona & Tseika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 The best thing you can do if you are serious about your RV is to put on disc brakes. They stay in adjustment better, and they are far easier to maintain. Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member Living on the road since 2000PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail 2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it) 2022 New Horizons 43' 5er 2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units 2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck -------------------------------------------------------------------------See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar powerwww.jackdanmayer.com Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpydoc Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 And to add to Jack's recommendation, do air over hydraulic where possible (Blu Dot) and eliminate all the electrical components that are susceptible to failure, Best Wishes, Jay 2015 Continental Coach Elegance by Forks RV, 41'; 2015 FL M2 112, DD 13, by 2L Custom Trucks; Trailer Saver air hitch; '48 Navigoddess with a Rand McNally GPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 Well, obviously I recommend BluDot....but I was trying to keep the actuator out of the discussion. You are not going to improve on the braking performance that BluDot gives you. Unless you go to the Tuson ABS system. And that has some lag in it. Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member Living on the road since 2000PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail 2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it) 2022 New Horizons 43' 5er 2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units 2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck -------------------------------------------------------------------------See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar powerwww.jackdanmayer.com Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdickinson Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Sibernut beat me to the punch. After an accident and authorities did an inspection on truck/trailer, they come to you and say do you know your brakes are not working?? What are you going to say, Yes but... Wonder if insurance would walk away from you hanging you out to dry?? I'd make a B line for the closest reputable tire/brake shop and not move until repairs were completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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