Jump to content

New European iShift transmission


peety3

Recommended Posts

Found this video while "enjoying" my Friday at work: https://youtu.be/MR5iFgJBpYk

 

It's the next-gen iShift transmission, with dual clutches. If it's anything like what I have in my VW Jetta TDI (VW calls it the Direct Shift Gearbox), it'll be super-smooth. In the Jetta, one clutch handles gears 1/3/5, and the other handles 2/4/6, so at a stop sign, the car is technically in 1st AND 2nd. It launches in 1st, then releases 1st as it grabs 2nd, then in the background it shifts the "odd" shaft to 3rd. It continues alternating between the shafts until it ends up in 5th/6th.

 

This new HD transmission might not have as much versatility as the VW transmission, as I believe the existing iShift transmissions are a three-speed "gearbox" (2.7, 1.63, 1.00) with a two-speed range shift (4.35, 1.00) and a two-speed splitter (1.00, 0.78). The dual-clutch probably limits on how many combinations it can preselect, but still a neat advancement.

 

No sign of it in the US yet, and obviously it'll be perhaps 4+ years beyond the eventual US release before we really start seeing these in the used market, but could be real sweet once they're in the field.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would be interested in the new Allison if I could spec a glider:

 

Disclaimer: I'm not a powertrain engineer, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

Interesting concept in the TC10, but I'd be leery of it for several reasons. First, I just don't trust a torque converter in high-torque applications like this. They'll need to computer de-rate the engine in the lowest of gears (I've experienced this in a fire truck). Second, the specs are IMHO wimpy: yes it'll take a 600HP engine, but only 1700 ft-lbs of torque. That rules out all Volvo D16s, and any D13 over 435HP. (The 600HP rating is only possible if the torque is delayed to ~1750RPM.) It also has a limit of 13,000 ft-lbs of torque on the output shaft, so the magic of the torque converter is overridden by "Lower Range Torque Protection" while the TC is doing its thing (and if it's not doing its thing, why carry it around?).

 

The next round of technology will certainly be exciting to watch, regardless of what comes out. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why don't you trust a torque convertor in "high torque" applications?

 

If properly designed and installed they work well. Almost all Caterpillar heavy haul mining tŕucks have them, including the 797F models which are 4000HP, 7speed powershift transmission, gross 1,375,000lbs and do so in very soft, rugged terrain and can climb 8+% grades under those conditions(I drive them for a living so speaking from experience). The only time we start to have issues is when the ground is soft enough to be dragging the bumpers in the dirt (about about 4ft deep ruts).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty much all except Caterpillar are, but even Cat has started to offer diesel electric. Here is a link to what Cat has in mine trucks.

 

http://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks.html

 

But back to topic, slushbox technology has advanced so much in the past decade that I wouldn't be afraid to try one, even though I still prefer to shift for myself. Even the 5 and six speed Allisons are pretty tough, have operated a few oilfield trucks with them and other than dirty connections and fuses that the dealers did know were hidden in wiring harnesses I have never seen a "mechanical" failure. They were not the best for fuel economy but made up for it in lower driveline(driveshaft and u joint) repair costs.

 

My wife has a VW Touareg with the DSG 8speed and it is amazing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The folks that say it's not for them got to remember that we're not pulling commercial trailers that weigh 80-120k with them. In our market they might see 35-40k lbs on a semi- conversion. Maybe you don't want to make a living with it, but with what we do with these semi's, the new trans would be sweet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I've read and heard about this one, it's a 10-speed twin-countershaft with a lockup torque converter in place of the main clutch. 500 HP and 1650 torque would be plenty. It's not the same "slushbox" like a 4000 series...

 

Except this transmission would require that a 500HP engine be software-derated across lower RPM to not explode this transmission. I like the impressive low-end torque of a big diesel; I don't want to give it up because the tranny can't handle it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I've read and heard about this one, it's a 10-speed twin-countershaft with a lockup torque converter in place of the main clutch. 500 HP and 1650 torque would be plenty. It's not the same "slushbox" like a 4000 series...

 

 

Except this transmission would require that a 500HP engine be software-derated across lower RPM to not explode this transmission. I like the impressive low-end torque of a big diesel; I don't want to give it up because the tranny can't handle it.

 

Allison's are found in lots of heavy haul tractors around west Canada - here are some Allison equipped KW C500's at work on a little load https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N2yd110Mls

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You need to do one of their behind the wheel demos and it'll all make sense. It is a regional haul transmission and it is made to shift fast all day long. It'll absolutely smoke an automated manual and completely leave it in the dust. They aren't even comparable. But no, it isn't made for a 500/1850 as you wouldn't put one of those engines in that type of application anyways. It is made to take a small block engine, work it harder and with smaller splits to spend more time on its efficiency island, and either shave time off your route or save you enough time on your route that you can expand your service area. If you want to lope a big block along the superslab then you still need to go automated manual. RV wise, it would be a perfect fit if you came from a pickup as it would be exactly what you expect out of a truck. If you came from 20 years of trucking then no you probably wouldn't like it as it is going to be way too busy.

 

It is 5th gen controls only, so you aren't going to be able to do it with a glider. Well, maybe if your glider is a 2010+ you could figure it out.

 

The dual clutch Eaton is out on Medium Duty now. Probably this summer there will be enough of them out that you'd find one on a dealers lot to test drive. Look for what they call a Procision.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SWEET! Sounds like road tractors might finally be catching up to the "powershift" type technology used in farm tractors for 20+ years! Powershift technology simply is multiple clutches to drive various gears. From 2 up to the number of gears you have! BTW--automatics and torque convertors are capable of handling high HP and torque beyond what would destroy most manuals in the REAL hard pull applications (600+ HP farm tractors, earthmovers and mining equipment as noted.) I think its partly because a TC "cushions" the driveline, allowing the power to be applied gradually.

Actually, I've been kinda wondering why the trucking industry doesn't pick up the IVT (infinitely variable) units that are in a lot of farm tractors these days? On the farm, they are super efficient. Scrap, can you enlighten me about what might make them unsuitable for trucking use? Just $$$$?

I may have to drive one of these new VW's...what years and whats the tranny called?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are quite a few vehicles on the road with dual-clutch transmissions now. If you come across any automatic current-generation (2012+) Focus, it will have what Ford calls it's PowerShift--probably the easiest to find; VW calls is a DSG (direct-shift gearbox); the Hyundai Veloster has a version called EcoShift; Fiat uses one in the 500L (which I believe is also in the Dodge Dart).

 

Now, if you're looking to have fun with a test drive, head on over to Porsche, and try the PDK (Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe). If you really want to see what a VW dual-clutch transmission can do, ask for a test drive of a Lamborghini Gallardo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SWEET! Sounds like road tractors might finally be catching up to the "powershift" type technology used in farm tractors for 20+ years! Powershift technology simply is multiple clutches to drive various gears. From 2 up to the number of gears you have! BTW--automatics and torque convertors are capable of handling high HP and torque beyond what would destroy most manuals in the REAL hard pull applications (600+ HP farm tractors, earthmovers and mining equipment as noted.) I think its partly because a TC "cushions" the driveline, allowing the power to be applied gradually.

Actually, I've been kinda wondering why the trucking industry doesn't pick up the IVT (infinitely variable) units that are in a lot of farm tractors these days? On the farm, they are super efficient. Scrap, can you enlighten me about what might make them unsuitable for trucking use? Just $$$$?

I may have to drive one of these new VW's...what years and whats the tranny called?

Yes, torque convertors are capable of handling high HP and torque, but this particular transmission isn't. That's all I'm trying to say with this transmission.

 

VW calls it the DSG - Direct Shift Gearbox. I think my '06 Jetta is the first year they had them in the US, and although the software is clearly "first gen", it's generally quite amazing. If they've bumped it from 6-speed to 8-speed, that'd be even better. Honestly, I love finding an open parking garage and just putting it in reverse: it will slip the clutch to get to its target "idled road speed", then open the clutch, then as the car coasts slower, it'll slip, open, slip, open, WAY better than I ever could by foot. I've said too many times that I wish I could rip the DSG out of the Jetta and drop it into my '01 Ford Excursion; that'd really wake up the beast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are quite a few vehicles on the road with dual-clutch transmissions now. If you come across any automatic current-generation (2012+) Focus, it will have what Ford calls it's PowerShift--probably the easiest to find; VW calls is a DSG (direct-shift gearbox); the Hyundai Veloster has a version called EcoShift; Fiat uses one in the 500L (which I believe is also in the Dodge Dart).

 

Now, if you're looking to have fun with a test drive, head on over to Porsche, and try the PDK (Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe). If you really want to see what a VW dual-clutch transmission can do, ask for a test drive of a Lamborghini Gallardo.

 

And if you REALLY want to peg your fun meter, take a ride on a newer Honda VFR-1200 with the dual clutch set-up. B)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
RVers Online University

campgroundviews.com

Our program provides accurate individual wheel weights for your RV, toad, and tow vehicle, and will help you trim the pounds if you need to.

RV Cable Grip

All the water you need...No matter where you go

Country Thunder Iowa

Nomad Internet

Rv Share

Dish For My RV.

RV Air.

Find out more or sign up for Escapees RV'ers Bootcamp.

Advertise your product or service here.

The Rvers- Now Streaming

RVTravel.com Logo



×
×
  • Create New...