Trick the AC system?

[Kirk W]

I Is there any reason a 150amp alternator wouldn't be good enough?

None that I can think of. The 1998, 36' gas motorhome that we fulltimed in had an alternator of about that size but I don't recall exactly what it was. The was larger from Ford due to being a motorhome chassis. I suspect that if yours is only 60A now it may have been previously replaced with one not intended for motorhome use.

[MoonTimber]

Are you sure it is a R12 system? I thought that by 1991 everything was 134?

 

Yes, it is R12. Automotive product lines were converted between 1992 and 1994. R12 production didn't get banned until 1996 and it was available in stores as late as 1998. I bought a few cans off eBay in 2000 for about triple the original price. After that you couldn't get it without illegally smuggling it from Mexico or finding someone who had a license. I think you can still get it with a license, but you're going to pay insane prices because most of it is reclaimed.

[MoonTimber]

None that I can think of. The 1998, 36' gas motorhome that we fulltimed in had an alternator of about that size but I don't recall exactly what it was. The was larger from Ford due to being a motorhome chassis. I suspect that if yours is only 60A now it may have been previously replaced with one not intended for motorhome use.

 

That makes a lot of sense. I would think that a 60amp alternator would really struggle to recharge two batteries. Of course, I don't really understand how many amps are needed to keep the motor going, power your stereo system, turn on your headlights, run the wiper motor and charge a battery while you're going down the highway. I also don't know if a higher amp alternator will charge extra batteries faster or if the system regulates charging to ignore everything over a certain amperage. I'll wait for one of the electrical geniuses to chime in, I'm always curious.

[oldjohnt]

Moon Timber, you ask: " I also don't know if a higher amp alternator will charge extra batteries faster or if the system regulates charging to ignore everything over a certain amperage."

 

First off, I like the idea of a 150 amp alternator for your RV, even though a 60 amp (or even less) would have no problem with the ordinary chassis and engine battery charging requirements.

 

YES a higher amp alternator has the "capacity" to deliver more charging amps into a battery or bank of batteries, so again I see it as an advantage for motorhome use where you want to charge BOTH the engine battery PLUS the coach batteries.

 

As far as its regulation and control circuitry, I cant from here absent a lot of specs and data and not knowing all the battery loads and their states of charge etc etc tell you (if your house batteries are in parallel with your engine battery) how much actual charge house batteries receive versus the engine battery. It depends on the state of the house batteries and the cables and resistances from the house and engine battery and other relay etc. resistances. HOWEVER I can tell you a 150 amp alternator has the ability to deliver more amperage to charge the house batteries then your old 60 amp........I can also tell you the bigger cables and less resistance (quality isolation relay) and shorter distance from you engine to house batteries the better. In my RV I have 4 gauge cables (less then 6 feet) from my engine battery back to my four 6 volt golf cart house batteries (series/parallel) plus a quality mechanical isolation relay and a voltmeter on my house batteries pretty well mirrors the voltage on my engine battery while driving. It may start out at 14+ volts but after some driving time it may settle in at 13.9 to 14.2 SO MY ALTERNATOR DOES INDEED ALSO CHARGE MY FOUR HOUSE BATTERIES PLUS MY SINGLE ENGINE BATTERY NO PROBLEM............. As expected if I (after driving) plug in my RV which fires up my PD Smart 4 Stage Charger it still starts out briefly in the fast bulk 14+ volt charge mode but quickly settles in at 13.6 then 13.2 float voltage REGARDLESS if I had driven one or 8 hours, just how it operates HOWEVER if my house batteries are well charged its not long before the PD reaches the 13.2 volt float level telling me my house batteries were in decent shape even before I operated my smart charger.

 

John T

[Honorman]

I would not worry about the dash AC working, as big as a motorhome is it will not cool it down unless you have a curtain to pull and close off the living area, and with 2 kids I don't think your going to do that.

 

Put 2 small dash fans if needed and run the roof AC, or just run the roof AC only, you will use more gas either way you go as the Dash AC will make the motor work harder (using gas).

 

Your dash air may only have a slow leak over 6-12 months, so adding 2-3 cans of r-12 look alike with a r-12 hose from Wal-Mart or auto store is a cheap way to find out if you have bigger problems with the dash AC, my RV dash AC leaks off over 2-3 years,

 

I should have already put ac leak detector and R-134 stop leak and 2-3 cans R-134 Freon in it with a gauge as it setting without use the seals will get hard and leak more, but since I have not used my RV for a few years I will go ahead and do that even though it may not hold Freon now but I still will run the generator and roof AC if it is hot outside.

 

I think most people with people sitting in house part will run roof AC anyway, the difference in gas will not be a big factor.

 

Note... since your dash AC is out of R-12 your compressor will have to have 12 volts fed to it for a short time to make it run and take a charge.

 

With a motorhome you will need to learn to do most repairs yourself as you will have a lot of upkeep on one.

 

As for the running lights unless they were checked with a volt meter they made only need cleaning the base off to make good contact or you may have a bad ground or broken wire in one place.

 

I would get (I have several good ones as I was a Electronic Troubleshooter in another life) a cheap $9.00 volt meter from Wal-Mart and go to you tube on the internet and learn to use it. in any case... Go for it and have fun.

[Kirk W]

I don't know if we have any geniuses on the forums but we do have many of us who have a lot of electrical training and experience. Your typical RV or automotive battery actually varies in voltage according to the level of charge and it accepts more amperage when the voltage level is low and less as it is charged and voltage rises. The amount of current that is available to charge batteries is whatever the excess capacity of the alternator is above the needs of the chassis. That is not only the power to operate the engine but also the headlights if on, the heater or air conditioner fan, and a bunch of smaller items. Then it also must recharge the chassis battery from having started the engine. While I don't have figures for what those loads entail, it could easily approach the 60A that you had. Most RVs today have more than one battery and they also have appliances that may be using 12V power as well. In order for the batteries to be recharged in a relatively short period of time, you must have a pretty significant extra capacity from the alternator, particularly if operating much inside of the RV while traveling. The 60 or 150A is at 12V and as a battery is charged the voltage required to push more into it goes up, eventually to about 14.5V.

 

As John has stated, there are a lot of things which the alternator is effected by when it comes to the ability it has to charge the batteries. Your alternator is actually rated for 150A at 12V but not only does the circuit voltage increase there is also a voltage loss through the wires to the batteries so wire size and length can play a significant part in the process. It can become pretty complicated for a layman, but suffice it to say that your 150A alternator will have far better ability to recharge the coach and chassis batteries at the same time while still supplying power to everything else as needed.

 

If you want to understand how an alternator works, check out this link as it does a pretty good but basic explanation.

[Jimalberta]

Ed....I can't agree with you on the dash air. I have a 40 ft motorhome and my dash air will easily keep up on hot days. I don't run it on high fan even but on medium fan and this is in 100 degree weather. At least the front half of the MH is cool. I havent found a need to drive with the roof air on so far. Of course on hot days we dont boondock and will head to an RV park so as to be able to run the roof airs once off the road.

[MoonTimber]

We pulled the ad and decided to keep this RV. Even if it kills us.

 

I have rarely worked on my own vehicles since my son was born seven years ago, so it really seemed overwhelming when my mechanic came back with the list of repairs we needed to do. But I think if I share the load between my mechanic, myself, and any friends I can trick into working for pizza, we'll still end up where we wanted to be before summer. It's a little disappointing because we wanted to just get in and go, but we'll just put that first trip off a month or two and we should be fine. We're going to have to spend money on repairs we hadn't planned for, but if I sacrifice some leisure time in favor of turning wrenches I should be able make the repair costs manageable. We can run the roof air off the generator as suggested for the first few trips until I can afford replacement parts for the chassis AC. From what Ed and Lou suggested, it almost sounds like we are going to want both systems running if we're driving through somewhere hot. Then again, Jimalberta 's comment suggests that if I get the dash air working properly I might not. It is only a 27 footer. We'll see!

[Honorman]

Ed....I can't agree with you on the dash air. I have a 40 ft motorhome and my dash air will easily keep up on hot days. I don't run it on high fan even but on medium fan and this is in 100 degree weather. At least the front half of the MH is cool. I havent found a need to drive with the roof air on so far. Of course on hot days we dont boondock and will head to an RV park so as to be able to run the roof airs once off the road.

Jimalberta, I see you are ( retired Refrigeration , Heating and A/C tech for 44 years and counting ) you must have made a magic Freon for your rig, My motorhome will not do that and it is 32 feet. please send me some of it, I live in Arkansas and go to Fl. most of the time so I am talking 100 degrees and high humidity from home to FL. in the summer time, I run dash and roof ac to keep cool. Ed

[Honorman]

We pulled the ad and decided to keep this RV. Even if it kills us.

 

I have rarely worked on my own vehicles since my son was born seven years ago, so it really seemed overwhelming when my mechanic came back with the list of repairs we needed to do. But I think if I share the load between my mechanic, myself, and any friends I can trick into working for pizza, we'll still end up where we wanted to be before summer. It's a little disappointing because we wanted to just get in and go, but we'll just put that first trip off a month or two and we should be fine. We're going to have to spend money on repairs we hadn't planned for, but if I sacrifice some leisure time in favor of turning wrenches I should be able make the repair costs manageable. We can run the roof air off the generator as suggested for the first few trips until I can afford replacement parts for the chassis AC. From what Ed and Lou suggested, it almost sounds like we are going to want both systems running if we're driving through somewhere hot. Then again, Jimalberta 's comment suggests that if I get the dash air working properly I might not. It is only a 27 footer. We'll see!

MoonTimber, A lot of us with motorhomes don't mind working on them, it's kind of like a hobby and at $100 plus hour at rv shops a big savings.

[Kirk W]

I really think that you got a good buy, just getting a sound RV to fix-up for $4500. You have roughly the same RV and work ahead as does Mark Nemeth the Escapee technical director. Mark wanted something smaller and less costly when he left fulltime to return to work and did about what you are dealing with now. The result has been an RV that cost little in money but invested time into and he uses it extensively, traveling to Escapee events in his job and even an extensive trip to Alaska last summer.

 

It seems to me that you have a basically sound RV that needs mostly pretty normal wear/age type of work and which will be solid once completed. If you want to feel better, take time to visit a dealer and check out the price of a new RV that is similar to what you will hav once you complete the repairs and upgrades you want on this one. I think that just might make you feel much better!

 

My motorhome will not do that and it is 32 feet. please send me some of it, I live in Arkansas and go to Fl. most of the time so I am talking 100 degrees and high humidity from home to FL. in the summer time, I run dash and roof ac to keep cool. Ed

That was our experience with our 1987, Allegro of 24 1/2 feet also. It was on the GM chassis and the dash a/c would only keep it comfortable up to around 90 or so ambient temperature, especially on sunny days.

[MoonTimber]

I really think that you got a good buy, just getting a sound RV to fix-up for $4500. You have roughly the same RV and work ahead as does Mark Nemeth the Escapee technical director. Mark wanted something smaller and less costly when he left fulltime to return to work and did about what you are dealing with now. The result has been an RV that cost little in money but invested time into and he uses it extensively, traveling to Escapee events in his job and even an extensive trip to Alaska last summer.

 

It seems to me that you have a basically sound RV that needs mostly pretty normal wear/age type of work and which will be solid once completed. If you want to feel better, take time to visit a dealer and check out the price of a new RV that is similar to what you will hav once you complete the repairs and upgrades you want on this one. I think that just might make you feel much better!

 

That was our experience with our 1987, Allegro of 24 1/2 feet also. It was on the GM chassis and the dash a/c would only keep it comfortable up to around 90 or so ambient temperature, especially on sunny days.

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence on the RV. It's not our dream machine but I think you're right. If we put some energy into it, we'll get lots of pleasure out of it for a few years. We like the size. The layout isn't perfect (for us) but it will work for at least three or four years. When we have it in good condition and our kids get a little bigger, hopefully we can sell it and earn enough in the process to get something with the layout we actually wanted. Alternatively, perhaps by then we'll be confident enough to just remodel it.

 

As for the A/C, it gets really hot here in Sacramento during the summer. We hit 115 a few times last year. So I think we'll need to get the dash fixed just so we can drive out of town. We're hoping to go to Florida in November. As I recall it rarely gets over 80 in November so we should be good with just one A/C there. Most of California is really cool even in the summer, so I think there are a lot of places we can go where we don't need A/C.

 

Kirk, did I read that right? You have nearly 24,000 posts? That's amazing! How long have you been part of this forum? We're going to have to have a special celebration when you hit 25,000 posts!

 

I am debating on my alternator. It looks like the original was an 80amp. I can get the 150amp with a one year warranty from an eBay company that rebuilds them in southern California for $140, or I can get a 100amp with a lifetime warranty from Autozone for $104 (Probably made in China). Decisions, decisions. . .

[bigjim]

He's like the energizer bunny but not near as cute.

[Kirk W]

Kirk, did I read that right? You have nearly 24,000 posts? That's amazing! How long have you been part of this forum? We're going to have to have a special celebration when you hit 25,000 posts!

There are several of us who are in the 20K bracket on posts. Also some people carried post numbers from the old site software while some others didn't, for some reason. I have been a member of these forums since I joined the Escapees RV Club in 1996.

[MoonTimber]

There are several of us who are in the 20K bracket on posts. Also some people carried post numbers from the old site software while some others didn't, for some reason. I have been a member of these forums since I joined the Escapees RV Club in 1996.

 

Wow, that means 20 years of posting!

 

I've posted on a Jeep forum since about that same year, but I only have about 1200 posts over there, so my hat is still off to you!

 

 

Just in case anyone is curious, I'm going with the 100amp alternator. It sounds like I would need to hack the wiring a bit if I went with the 150amp alternator. I don't mind doing that, but then I got to thinking - what happens if we're in the middle of nowhere and the alternator dies? I want to be able to go to any auto parts store and get a replacement that will bolt in. I don't want to be in a situation where I'm trying to remember what I did and restore the wiring so my family can get back to our trip. A 100 amp isn't as good as 150, but it's still better than the stock 80amp.

[Jimalberta]

Jimalberta, I see you are ( retired Refrigeration , Heating and A/C tech for 44 years and counting ) you must have made a magic Freon for your rig, My motorhome will not do that and it is 32 feet. please send me some of it, I live in Arkansas and go to Fl. most of the time so I am talking 100 degrees and high humidity from home to FL. in the summer time, I run dash and roof ac to keep cool. Ed

I dont know Ed...its been like this since I bought it...havent touched the AC but it works very well....maybe the fact that the MH has dual pane windows and is well insulated?......I dunno .

 

We were driving last summer in the interior of BC and arrived in Kamloops in the middle of the afternoon and were going to stay in a Walmart parking lot for the night. Opened the door and got out of the MH....frickin oven....was 44C (111F) got back in the MH and drove to an RV park...lol. Point is that we were comfy in the MH and didnt realize how hot it was until we got out.

[MoonTimber]

Wow, dual pane on a motorhome? Dual pane on our beloved clunker means there's a layer of spray paint splatter on the outside of the window where the previous owner tried to touch it up. I guess if we ever get to graduate to a newer machine, we'll be looking at American Eagles built after 2001! Do they make those shorter than 30'?

 

There are a number of parks in Northern California that you really can't get into if you are over 30'. Two of them in the redwood area along the coast actually have signs warning you away if you're over 30' because you can't get turned around.

 

I want to go look at American Eagle RV's, but I'm going to resist so we can attempt to stay content with what we have. If we ever bump into each other at a park somewhere, please don't invite me in, it will create intense waves of jealousy which might get us infected with get-into-debt-itus

 

Wow, dual pane windows on a motorhome!

[Kirk W]

Wow, dual pane on a motorhome? Dual pane on our beloved clunker means there's a layer of spray paint splatter on the outside of the window where the previous owner tried to touch it up. I guess if we ever get to graduate to a newer machine, we'll be looking at American Eagles built after 2001! Do they make those shorter than 30'?

There are many brands of RV that have dual pane windows or that have them as an option. We lived in a Cruise Master and when we bought ours the dual pane glass was standard in them. Newmar & Allegro (Tiffin) both offer it as well and most models of Itasca or Winnebago. I'm sure that there are numerous others so you really don't need to move to an "American" brand RV to get them.

[Jimalberta]

Hmmmm

 

Please dont make a thing out of this.....I simply raised a point by responding to a post where the OP was advised to not repair his dash air as they dont help much.

[bigjim]

At first I took that moon timber post wrong but as I looked at it again I think he is joking but you know how somethings just don't come across right when written out. OK he might be a little envious but who isn't.

[MoonTimber]

Hmmm, I hope I haven't offended anyone with my silliness. I really am envious of your motor home jimalberta. Until you said you had double pane windows, it never occurred to me that an RV could have them, even though it makes perfect sense that nicer and newer units should.

 

My first "RV" was a 1962 pop up. it was literally a tent on wheels. No stove, no sink, just a metal box with a teeny wooden storage box inside. I hooked it to my Jeep, and camped everywhere from Ohio to Colorado. My second was a 1978 Wilderness that I picked up for $1800. It was primitive and needed a lot of work, but for the occasional camper like myself it was fantastic. My third was a 1972 Airstream that I picked up for $3500. It was also a work in progress. It was the most amazing RV I had ever been in. I parted ways with that trailer in 2004 or 2005. I had those when I was single.

 

Now we have this 1991 Jamboree Rally that I bought for $4500. It's an incredible leap forward from everything else I had and we are thrilled to have it, but we knew before we saw it that compared to new RVs it is once again somewhat primitive and beat up. We'd love to have something built in the last ten years. Something sophisticated enough to have double pane windows! We're just not at a point in our lives where we can afford to do something like that without taking out a loan. I think if the Creator of the universe continues to bless us, then someday before my kids are fully grown we might get to trade up to that. But right now we stay content by not looking at RVs we know we can't afford. So when you said you had double pane windows I was genuinely surprised. It's kinda like eating spaghetti all your life and suddenly discovering that some people put meatballs on them.

 

 

We think we're going to keep our Jamboree for two or three years. We definitely won't upgrade without getting advice from this forum about what's available. Knowing that some RVs have double pane windows tells me that next time around I should try to get one with that feature, because we intend to camp in places where it's hot and cold.

[Jimalberta]

No worries Moontimber. We just bought this motorhome in the spring and basically take it for granted that this is the way motorhomes are built. I am finding though that that is not necessarily so and am coming to a better appreciation of what I have.