My latest Problem - a bad tire

[Broncohauler]

The temps for that day were in the 50's. I had only driven 10 miles. The sidewall temps on the other tires at the time of the failure were right at 100*. My ten miles was at speeds under 50 mph.

 

The only way there could have been damage like a large pothole hit on these tires was when the coach was taken to paint. That was a 1000 mile trip and not done by me. But in my service there has been zero large pothole strikes and no curb strikes. We will see what Goodyear says.

Jack what temperature do your tires normally run at? This last weekend I ran mine in 85° weather and don't remember the tires getting near hundred degree temperature.

50° outside temperature , and 100° tire temperature in 10 miles seems high doesn't it?

[Jack Mayer]

That is about normal temperature....the tires vary a good bit depending on circumstances..... That is the outside of the tire.

[Tireman9]

OK, anyone have any theories on this tire issue? See picture.

 

It totally parted at the shoulder, all the way around. Circumstances:

• within 10 miles of trip start.
• Pre trip showed the tire to be good - no apparent damage to it.
• Inflation was correct for load. Tire monitor was working.
• It is not overloaded...not even close.
• brakes are not dragging. Hub was not hot.
• Less than 2000 miles on the tire.
• Was on the third axle.

Looks like a Run Low Flex Failure to me. Are you sure your TPMS is working properly? Do you have any other pictures?

[Tireman9]

Just for the record, Jack's tires are not ST types. They are commercial trailer 17.5" tires like the ones used under electronics trailers. These tires are not in any class of tires normally found on an RV trailer.

 

This is why the concern of Jack and others here because going to 17.5" H rated tires has, for many, removed the incidents of tire failures.

Even steel body 17.5" tires require air. It is after all the air and not the tire that carries the load.

 

Sidewalls do not simply "blowout". Tires with Polyester body ply, like most ST, LT and P type tires will suffer a sidewall failure that is incorrectly called a "Blowout". The process is a tire looses air and when running at highway speed the high flex rate at a concentrated location (nice circumferencial line) overheats the Polyester. At about 350F the cord has lost over 50% of its strength and at about 480F it melts as seen in pictures in THIS post.

With steel body there is of course no cord melting but steel fatigues. This is shown in pictures in THIS post.

[Jack Mayer]

Tireman, you are correct. This was a "run-flat" failure. The TPMS did not function as designed and the tire was run on after flat. All this happened within 19 miles of when I left. And my pretrip did show the tire OK. This is the very reason I have been looking for another TPMS system. Having a RELIABLE system where all tires report ALL THE TIME - not just "sometimes" is critical. This is a perfect example of why.

[Tireman9]

Jack.

While I'm sorry you had a tire failure I believe it always helps if the real cause of the failure is discovered. If you don't know the real cause then there is no way to be sure the "fix" that is applied will actually prevent a re-occurance.

 

Be sure you confirm the valve body does not leak where it goes through the rim. Also use a new valve core.

 

RE TPMS You might find my post on BEST TPMS helpful. NOTE I do not specify a specific brand but do offer features that I believe a good TPMS should have.

[Jack Mayer]

I've been running TPMS systems continuously since around 2001. First a Smartire,then Pressurepro. So with around 15 years experience living in our coach fulltime with up to 16 sensors I've seen many of the issues with them. I like the PP, but at the moment my repeater is not getting all the tires in on this coach. No matter where I place it - and all the obvious things have been done. I've had this issue before and managed to resolve it. But I've been chasing this problem now since October, and the tire failure is - IMO - a direct result of the PP not working as it should. So unless I resolve the issue soon I'm going to go to a TST system with their repeater. Replacing $400 tires, plus the chance of RV damage and the danger of a breakdown roadside makes it not worth messing with the system much more.

[rickeieio]

Jack,

 

In post #24, you said that you'd driven 10 miles on a 50 degree day, and your tires were all about 100 degrees, measured at the sidewall. This would lead me to think that perhaps your tire gauge is out of calibration. I doubt those tires should be that warm so quickly, if properly inflated.

 

If in fact, you were using your Pressure Pro rather than actually checking the tires, then the issue of poor signal might be factored into the equation.

 

And "Thanks" to Tireman9 for stopping bye. Good info to file away in the mental filing cabinet.

[Jack Mayer]

Actually, Rick it turns out it was 19 miles and about 65 out. As Danielle reminds me....

 

The IR gun is accurate. The issue was one of the Pressure Pro not maintaining a connection - an issue I have had with this coach and my last one. As I said, It is getting to be time for a new system. I've been battling dropped tire positions for some time.

[RickS]

Jack,

I have the TST 507 system on my trailer only with a repeater mounted in the front generator bay. I have been replacing the batteries on the sensors at the beginning of each RV'ing season. This works very well for me and don't have any dropped signals like I did before I added the repeater. The Volvo has the factory TPMS.

[Jack Mayer]

Rick, I think when I switch I'm going to use the TST system with the permanent batteries. They say that they last 5+ years in practice. Like the PP sensors.

[SuiteSuccess]

Jack,

 

I have had both the TST 510 and more recently the 507. For me the school is still out on the 507 because after one year I have had two sensors that need replacing. I just reinstalled them from last season couple of days ago and came back next day to check the system. One tire was down to 45 psi. Changed the rubber washer and could still hear a leak with my "Whisper". On closer inspection noticed there is a small plastic "nipple" in the sensor that depresses the valve stem and it was chewed up. The second sensor was giving erratic readings from 45 -90 psi even when changed to different tires. I never had these type of problems with the 510. I do use a repeater in the front of my trailer. BTW I must mention again TST customer service is top rate. When I called and described the problems they immediately were going to put two new sensors in the mail, I'll also mention I did use the 507 four months last year and had no problems after buying the repeater. I am just concerned about the longevity of the plastic inner component.

Lessons learned: 1. Check all tires with good gauge prior to installation of sensors and inflate properly. 2. Check each sensor after installation with either leak detector or soapy water. 3. Wait at least 24 hours after installation before beginning long trip to make sure tires don't leak down.

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

With PressurePro, I have an external antenna because one of the trucks inner duals was hard to connect to through the steal cab.

 

We added a repeater neat the back of the trailer to insure picking up the toad sensors. When we changed a bunchof the sensors at the 7 year mark, we would get drop-outs from a coupleof the sensors but the monitor sqwaked about it.

[Jack Mayer]

I went through all of what Mark describes. I changed all my sensors around the 6-7 year mark. I have an external antenna and a repeater and I am still getting dropouts. Been that way off and on for the last year or so. It is extraordinarily frustrating.

[Big5er]

Maybe I got the good one, because (knock on wood) my new PP is working great. I put it on two years ago before the rally and it works like a champ. I have only an external antenna (mounted on the truck bed by the hitch camera). Right now, I am parked and not moving, with the truck about 40ft away and it reads great. I haven't had any drop outs while towing and as everyone at last years rally knows, it saved my butt coming down from Nebraska to Hutch.

 

Jack, If I was having your issues,I think I would be using mine for target practice.

[Tireman9]

With PressurePro, I have an external antenna because one of the trucks inner duals was hard to connect to through the steal cab.

 

We added a repeater neat the back of the trailer to insure picking up the toad sensors. When we changed a bunchof the sensors at the 7 year mark, we would get drop-outs from a coupleof the sensors but the monitor sqwaked about it.

 

I see that you and others are changing sensors rather than just batteries. Bit expensive isn't it? My batteries only cost about #2 each and so-far are good for at least 3 years so I don't know when I will have to spend the $12 to replace all six.

User replacable batteries is one thing I suggest be included in your cost of ownership calculations for a TPMS.

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

Since this is turning into a TPMS thread, the issue with replaceable batteries is that you have a sensor thatrelies on ssome seal to keep the inside dry. Some of the TPMS sensors O-ring is very fragile.

 

Replacing sensors at 7 years may be a little more expensive but I get brand new latest level electronics along with a new battery. Money isn't everything.

[Rick & Alana]

Jack take your pictures to MATS next week, Goodyear will be there along with all the other tire manufactures. You should get some interesting opinions there.

[HERO Maker]

So that sounds like I might just go back to thumpin the tires after looking at the PP TPMS. It's always nice to have a good billy club with you anyway!!!

[peety3]

Tireman, you are correct. This was a "run-flat" failure. The TPMS did not function as designed and the tire was run on after flat. All this happened within 19 miles of when I left. And my pretrip did show the tire OK. This is the very reason I have been looking for another TPMS system. Having a RELIABLE system where all tires report ALL THE TIME - not just "sometimes" is critical. This is a perfect example of why.

Just to be clear, are you saying this was an instrumentation problem, and the tire was likely low when you started the voyage?

[Jack Mayer]

Just to be clear, are you saying this was an instrumentation problem, and the tire was likely low when you started the voyage?

The tire was not low when I started - at least not low enough to be noticeable. The previous day each tire was manually checked and adjusted. That morning - about an hour from leaving - each tire was physically inspected for trauma on my pretrip. They were all holding approximately the same air when thumped. It leaked enough, or had a valve stem go, to run on the tire. There is ZERO doubt that is what happened. It is simply not Goodyears fault in my mind. It was an equipment failure. It happens.

 

The issue is the TPMS, not the tire or tire brand.

 

On the topic of replaceable batteries, I'm not a big fan. I hear of too many issues with them, and I also know a number of people that barely get a reliable year out of them. I'd rather get 6-7 years out of a sealed unit. And then replace it for $30. At least that is my feeling at the moment. That could change. I'm really not looking for MORE problems.

[noteven]

I checked tire pressures one morning A-OK. 9 miles north on I15 we were in the pits changing a trailer tire due to a puncture. It was not yet flat when we stopped but was already hot enough I replaced it. Run flat wreckage takes no time at all.

[skp51443]

That really looked like a run flat failure to me but I never considered the TPMS failing so I discounted that. We had a similar issue, without a TPMS though, we stopped for lunch and checked the tires before we left and all were fine. About 25 miles of 25 to 45 MPH driving later we got told we had a flat and it was shredding, never felt it and it wasn't obvious in the passenger side mirror either. No clue about when it went down, no clue why with no visible tread damage.