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Soldiers committing suicide... help me understand...


BrianT

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The response from Kirks son was interesting. The suicide rate among military is up and there seems to be no question about that. I always just assumed that the added combat tours were the cause. In many ways the military is just an extension of the general population. I think it would be interesting to see what the increase in military rates are compared to the increase in civilian rates.

Jim
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The suicide rate among military is up and there seems to be no question about that.

True, but current data indicate that it has begun to decline, at least a little. My son has now retired from active duty but is in IT with the recruiting command and sees data related to recruiting and retaining troops on a frequent basis.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

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What current data? And you have to be specific. Suicide rates are up in the Guard and reserves. Likely because they are being tasked more than ever in my memory. Saying just the military could mean including all DOD personnel, active duty only, reserves only, uniformed active and reserves are the usual divisions we put them in though I missed every possible combination. Interpretations from a headline or hearsay in today's world is just not necessary. The report released last Friday, or excerpted analysis is available with a simple search. When I first came on active duty in 1971 the reserves were not on a par readiness wise and were not used to augment the active duty side in Vietnam. I began seeing the Reserves not only taking deployments but taking them as a regular part of being a reservist only in the last twenty years or so. By my reckoning the suicide rate was up and the methodologies or categorizing and reporting them changed. In any event, broken down, the news is not good news or bad as of the 2014 reports that seem to be level not below 2013. But which group within the reports do you wish to track? That was the problem with the old way. I'll post a concise article in a separate post for a full picture of the calculation changes.

 

Excerpt:

 

"The suicide rate among active-duty U.S. military personnel dropped in 2013 to roughly the same rate as the civilian population adjusted for similar demographics, according to a new Pentagon report.

 

The 2013 Defense Department Suicide Event Report shows the suicide rate for troops on active duty in 2013 was 18.7 per 100,000 population, down from the 2012 rate of 22.7 per 100,000.

 

The rates for the individual services per 100,000 according to the report, were 23 for the Army, 23.1 for the Marine Corps, 14.4 for the Air Force and 13.4 for the Navy.

 

The rate for civilians of the same age and socio-economic status as those who serve in the military is 18.8 per 100,000, according to Army and National Institutes of Mental Health calculations.

 

The Pentagon in 2013 changed its methodology for calculating suicide rates, basing the data on which component the deceased service members belonged to — active duty, National Guard or Reserve. The new methodology was used to produce the 2012 DoD Suicide Event Report as well as the 2013 report released Friday, allowing for an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

"In calculating the suicide event rate, DoD includes all service members. ... Doing so provides a more holistic view of the challenge suicide presents to leaders at all levels," the report notes.

 

But what likely is to be seen as good news by active component military leaders was not matched for the Guard and reserve components, whose suicide rates remain significantly higher than civilian rates. In 2013, the rate among reservists was 23.4 per 100,000, and among National Guardsmen, 28.9 per 100,000. These rates reflect all members of the Guard and Reserve, regardless of whether the deaths occurred while the service members were activated or in drilling status.

 

The Pentagon previously published the suicide statistics for 2013 in July 2014, but the new report is a detailed analysis of the active-duty deaths that provides insight into who attempts suicide or completes it.

 

The information is used largely to help senior leaders understand the scope of the problem and help the Pentagon steer its suicide prevention and mental health programs.

 

According to the report, 259 troops on active-duty status died by suicide in 2013, down from a record 319 in 2012, including 115 soldiers, 42 sailors, 43 airmen and 45 Marines.

 

During the same time, 220 members of the Selected Reserve and Guard (87 and 133, respectively), died by suicide, up from 203 in 2012.

 

In 2013, young white enlisted males ages 17 to 24 were at highest risk for dying by suicide. More than 90 percent of those who completed suicide were male, 75 percent were Caucasian and 42 percent were 17 to 24 years old.

 

Two-thirds had deployed — a change from previous years when fewer than half those who died by suicide had deployed. Still, in 2013, just 15 percent of those who died by suicide had seen direct combat, according to the report.

 

Nearly two-thirds had seen a doctor within three months before taking their own lives but fewer than half had a mental health diagnosis and fewer than a third telegraphed any plans to hurt themselves, according to the report.

 

More than half were married and had access to a firearm at home.

 

Twenty-two service members were prescribed multiple medications at the time of their deaths, and 12 had a diagnosed brain injury.

 

In addition to analyzing completed suicides, the 124-page report also examines 1,800 reported instances of suicide attempts, providing valuable information that has helped guide mental health and wellness programs in the past year."

 

That whole analysis of the report figures released last Friday can be found here: http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/pentagon/2015/01/16/defense-department-suicides-2013-report/21865977/

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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War-years military suicide rate higher than believed

 

Excerpt:

 

"Rates of suicide in the military were slightly worse during the war years than what the Pentagon previously reported, according to new calculations released by Defense Department officials Friday.

 

The new arithmetic shows that from 2006 forward — during the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan — the true suicide rate across the U.S. military was actually several tenths of a percent to 1% or more higher than what was being reported.

 

The problem with the old, now-abandoned calculation, is that it relied partly on an estimated figure in determining a suicide rate rather than precise numbers, says Army Lt. Gen. Michael Linnington, the military deputy to the under secretary of Defense for personnel and readiness.

 

The old rates were calculated by the Office of the Armed Forces Medical Examiner, according to the Pentagon,

 

"It's jaw-dropping that the Pentagon would use this kind of crass calculation to measure the impact of the suicide epidemic within their ranks," says Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., a senior member of the Veterans Affairs Committee. "If that recalculation in any way indicates a need for additional funding or new services, the Pentagon and Congress must respond to address a problem which is clearly worse than we had been led to believe."

 

Beginning in 2005, suicide within the military — particularly for the Army — steadily began increasing to record levels every year, and may have peaked in 2012.

 

Among full-time soldiers, the suicide rate soared to 29.7 deaths per 100,000 in 2012, well above a 25.1-per-100,000 rate for civilians of a similar age group during 2010, the latest year available, according to a Pentagon report. Among male soldiers, the rate was 31.8-per-100,000. There were a record 164 soldier-suicides that year.

 

The overall national civilian suicide rate was 12.1-per-100,000 in 2010 and 19.9-per-100,000 for men in 2010, according to the Centers for Disease Control.

 

The Army National Guard rate for 2012 reached 30.8 deaths per 100,000 with 110 suicides. The suicide rate for men in the Army National Guard was 34.2-per-100,000,Pentagon data shows.

 

For full-time troops across the U.S. military, the suicide rate peaked at 22.7-per-100,000 in 2012 and fell to 19.1-per-100,000 last year, according to the Pentagon.

 

Defense officials said that their old rates for suicide were flawed because officials did the math using only a percentage of National Guard and reservists — and not the true number — who were serving on active-duty status."

 

That whole article is here: http://www.usatoday.com/story/nation/2014/04/25/suicide-rates-army-military-pentagon/8060059/

 

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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Been gone a couple days but Derek beat me to it. Thanks bud.

 

I had already done a little research and found this article.

Study: Suicide rates among Army soldiers up 80%

Dave & Tish
Beagle Bagles & Snoopy

RIP Snoopy we lost you 5-11-14 but you'll always travel with us
On the road somewhere.
AF retired, 70-90
A truck and a trailer

“He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion” -unknown

HoD vay' wej qoH SoH je nep! ngebmo' vIt neH 'ach SoHbe' loD Hem, wa' ngebmo'. nuqneH...

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Been gone a couple days but Derek beat me to it. Thanks bud.

 

I had already done a little research and found this article.

Study: Suicide rates among Army soldiers up 80%

That story actually supports what our son said.

 

ByMichelle CastilloCBS NewsJuly 10, 2012, 3:01 PM

It was published in 2012, the year that the Army says was the peak year for the problem. It is still a long way from solved, but at least has shown some decline. And I'm not sure that I believe CBS as much as I might the Army's numbers, even though either or both could very well be biased. Even one such incident is too many.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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My reports were both from this year, and don't.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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Kirk,

CBS reports for ratings. The military reports to CYA.

Dave & Tish
Beagle Bagles & Snoopy

RIP Snoopy we lost you 5-11-14 but you'll always travel with us
On the road somewhere.
AF retired, 70-90
A truck and a trailer

“He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion” -unknown

HoD vay' wej qoH SoH je nep! ngebmo' vIt neH 'ach SoHbe' loD Hem, wa' ngebmo'. nuqneH...

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I am sorry to comment without thourghly reading the latest from above. I wonder about the ones that resort to methods that may not be taken as suicide but as accidents or even in extreme circumstances things like suicide by cop. I expect that many are pushed by deseperation about finding and keeping decent jobs to support themselves and there families. This may be worse for Reserve/ Guard people in some cases because they keep getting called up and disrupting any semblance of normalcy. Yea they signed up and yea they should be used but we are riding a good horse to death the way we are using them. Now for something slightly political. The jackass c--p about sending them to the freaking border and disrupting them and there families more for a freakin show. And just for good measure it is going to cost all taxpayers a lot for the show. Since they were sent by the Governor there is no requirement for the Feds having to pick up the tab but even if they did it is still the taxpayers just a larger tax base. I am fed up with stupid. Why don't we pay bonus' to some more CEO's to send some more jobs overseas so there will be less jobs for these folks.

 

Very true cyberdave

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Don't they all! Unbiased news media, my backside! They have an agenda, just as some on the forums do. ^_^

 

Kirk,

 

You can't resist can you? Derek does the research and it is verifiable and published. Why do you take offense? You know as well as anyone else that the military is not about to be forthcoming with negative data that will have a negative impact on retention, recruiting and public opinion. It takes a long time to stop drinking the kool-aid and become a bit skeptical of what you were fed for so many years.

 

The original post was genuine and needs no further dilution so why not let it go?

Dave & Tish
Beagle Bagles & Snoopy

RIP Snoopy we lost you 5-11-14 but you'll always travel with us
On the road somewhere.
AF retired, 70-90
A truck and a trailer

“He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion” -unknown

HoD vay' wej qoH SoH je nep! ngebmo' vIt neH 'ach SoHbe' loD Hem, wa' ngebmo'. nuqneH...

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From a current article in the Washington Post about the new rule on narcotic painkillers.

 

"In dramatically curtailing access to the highly addictive painkillers, the government is trying to roll back what the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has termed the worst drug addiction epidemic in the countrys history, killing more people than heroin and crack cocaine. The rules apply to hydrocodone combination products, such as Vicodin.

 

More than half a million veterans are now on prescription opioids, according to VA.

 

Pain experts at VA say that in hindsight they have been overmedicating veterans, and doctors at the Pentagon and VA now say that the use of the painkillers contributes to family strife, homelessness and even suicide among veterans. A study by the American Public Health Association in 2011 also showed that the overdose rate among VA patients is nearly double the national average."

 

The entire, very long article.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/veterans-struggle-to-renew-their-prescriptions-amid-new-opioid-rules/2015/02/18/4d42d63a-acb3-11e4-9c91-e9d2f9fde644_story.html?wpisrc=nl_pdmost&wpmm=1

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This is one seriously complex problem isn't it. On one hand, you do have veterans that are able to function or quality of life with the pain killers, On the other hand, I can attest to the give him pain meds he can wait awhile for surgery etc routine. We must find a way to manage both issues and the VA has a real problem on their hands.

Dave & Tish
Beagle Bagles & Snoopy

RIP Snoopy we lost you 5-11-14 but you'll always travel with us
On the road somewhere.
AF retired, 70-90
A truck and a trailer

“He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion” -unknown

HoD vay' wej qoH SoH je nep! ngebmo' vIt neH 'ach SoHbe' loD Hem, wa' ngebmo'. nuqneH...

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You can't resist can you? Derek does the research and it is verifiable and published.

I'm not sure just what you mean... I long ago blocked his posts and don't read them, as I would have thought he would do with mine since we seem to be like oil and water. I assure you that I have not read anything posted in this thread by Derek, alias RV and do not plan to start.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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Related to the drug issue, you may not care for the source but it has been very lightly reported elsewhere.

 

http://pjmedia.com/blog/va-painkiller-scandal-surrounding-sen-tammy-baldwin-grows/

 

 

A month after this rave review, Baldwin’s office obtained a copy of the VA inspector general’s report on the facility through a Freedom of Information Act request. The report found that Houlihan had issued prescriptions for over 712,000 oxycodone pills in 2012, a massive increase over the roughly 50,000 which had been dispensed in 2004, the year before Houlihan became chief of staff at the hospital. This huge increase happened despite a drop in the number of veterans being served.

Houlihan’s nickname among the facility’s patients was the “candy man.” Some patients were reportedly so drugged that they were unconscious in waiting rooms, and some had even burnt themselves with cigarettes by accident while drugged.

First rule of computer consulting:

Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day.

Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime.

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Related to the drug issue, you may not care for the source but it has been very lightly reported elsewhere.

Interesting site. Not one that I am familiar with but looks to provide some interesting reading, at least once. :)

 

I haven't yet found the article you quote, but isn't that drug issue he is talking about in the VA and not the active military?

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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I'm not sure just what you mean... I long ago blocked his posts and don't read them, as I would have thought he would do with mine since we seem to be like oil and water. I assure you that I have not read anything posted in this thread by Derek, alias RV and do not plan to start.

 

Good enough for me. But you know that begs the obvious question..? Just kidding.

Dave & Tish
Beagle Bagles & Snoopy

RIP Snoopy we lost you 5-11-14 but you'll always travel with us
On the road somewhere.
AF retired, 70-90
A truck and a trailer

“He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion” -unknown

HoD vay' wej qoH SoH je nep! ngebmo' vIt neH 'ach SoHbe' loD Hem, wa' ngebmo'. nuqneH...

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Kirk,

 

I believe it is the VA in this case and as I said before it's a big mess.

Dave & Tish
Beagle Bagles & Snoopy

RIP Snoopy we lost you 5-11-14 but you'll always travel with us
On the road somewhere.
AF retired, 70-90
A truck and a trailer

“He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion” -unknown

HoD vay' wej qoH SoH je nep! ngebmo' vIt neH 'ach SoHbe' loD Hem, wa' ngebmo'. nuqneH...

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Interesting site. Not one that I am familiar with but looks to provide some interesting reading, at least once. :)

 

I haven't yet found the article you quote, but isn't that drug issue he is talking about in the VA and not the active military?

 

I tried my link from two different computers and it took me to the right article so I'm not sure why you aren't seeing it. The quote is from the end of the article, count back 8 paragraphs to see the source of the quote.

 

Yes the drug issue they are discussing is over prescribing narcotics for VA patients, not active duty ones which the article states.

First rule of computer consulting:

Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day.

Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime.

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No Kirk you aren't blocked by me. :lol: "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan. When you post there is no oil and water from my side. But when you start making up your own facts and your sources are secret, well, that makes for great campfire BS, but not scholarly discussion. I have no problem with pointing those false premises and assumptions out. But now I know why you seem so reasonable lately. ;)

 

Funny,

you do post in my threads. If you want nothing to do with me . . . Aren't my threads blocked too? I've never blocked anyone so don't know. I'll try it sometime.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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Interesting, when I posted, I wasn't really considering whether these veterans were current active duty or whether they had retired / been discharged. I had assumed the later but there appears to be data on current active duty thrown into the mix, which I suppose I could see as being a somewhat static number (what I got the feeling Kirk was talking about).

 

I admit, I haven't read every link to every site, some but I didn't get through them all, at least not yet.

 

In a way, I'm kinda saddened that it's degraded to what kind of data sets are the "real" ones rather than what could realistically happen to make life better for those returning home.

 

Thank you, sincerely, for those of you who have opened up a little about what goes on inside of you. It helps me understand just a little better.

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That pjmedia site is something else. I might read it but if something looked like it had any truth in it I would certainly look for factual information elsewhere to verify what they are saying. No doubt there is bias and untruthe in all media they seem to be highly inflamatory and biased. Before I am flamed I have not said that it is the only bias, inflamatory site out there.

 

So curious, if RV is blocked by Kirk, does that mean he can not see RV's post above #45?

 

The pain killer drug situation is a big problem and I don't have an answer but denying everyone or making it so difficult for some is not the answer either. I think some of it is a kneejerk reaction but it is hard to be too critical since I don't have a solution.

 

Right wrong or indiffent it is the Senators, Congress , and the President's responsibility to fix. Of course it is ultimately our responsibility to elect people that will do a good job a IF they ever get it right and won't walk off from oveseeing it. I have tried to give those folks credit for taking on an almost impossible, complicate task but it sure seems to be hopeless when we watch the ones we have now and that includes all of them.

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Jim, I'm not a fan of PJ Media for facts but they came up first in Google and had the information I wanted to share. It is available elsewhere if you want to do the looking to find it but like the rest of the VA messes it is being hushed up as much as possible. As another example, without the local paper here in Phoenix staying on top of the VA issues on forged appointment and care information I'd be missing a lot just looking at the national media for that issue. I'm no fan of their reporting either but they are the best source for the issue.

 

 

If you block someone's posts you can still see them but you have to click a link to show their post, otherwise you get a little "post by XX blocked" notification instead of the post. You can also block PMs (private messages) in which case they can't send you one.

 

 

The drug issue I'm more worried about than the patients seeking unneeded drugs is the doctors who hand out the drugs to make a problem go away, where the problem is the patient - not the problem the patient is having.

 

Fixing the problems requires fixing the bureaucracy, not an easy job since they are there for 30 plus years with no elections or public to keep happy. I don't recall any nation ever fixing theirs aside from a few patches and tweaks. Google "fixing the bureaucracy" and you'll find interesting reading but little hope.

First rule of computer consulting:

Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day.

Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime.

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From the Washington Post about Marine Sargent Roger Richards

 

"She came home from work that evening and found his body on the floor outside the kitchen. Later doctors would speculate that his weakened liver had been unable to metabolize the prescription painkillers that were slowly building up in his system.

 

There are many reactions to seeing death: Raechels was disbelief. Not like this, she would remember screaming as she stood near her husband. Not like this."

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I am one of those vets returned from Vietnam as a combat Marine. I'm not going to go into my past war experiences but I totally understand why suicide can happen to many. I am one of the fortunate ones that has been able to put things into my own perspective and just say I am lucky, very lucky that I made it home. Some of my best friends did not do that, and that is the unfortunate ones. As I said I am the lucky one.

 

On the other hand lets talk pain killers. I am a diabetic with neuropathy, wounds that have caused some complications and 100% Disabled by the VA. One day I went in for my update on my prescriptions and like every time you go in the office first thing they ask is what is your pain rating. As I always say its around 6 ( how do you really know ) and that's the end of the conversation there. A bunch of data is put into the computer by the Dr and she says we will see you in 6 mos. Next thing I know I get this drug in the mail that is called Hydrocodone. I ask myself what is this and after doing some research I find out its a narcotic pain killer better known as Vicodin. I am instructed to take 2 per day. I do have a lot of problem with neuropathy and knees, but I didn't take this drug only but once in a great while. When I went back in 6 mo. later I asked her why she wanted me to take 2 of these narcotics that were addicting at the very least. She said you told me your pain level was at 6, so that's the criteria I guess. I told her to cut them back to one a day just so I could have it if needed. I am trying my best to stay away from them as much as possible. But I can see how you can get addicted to these things. To me they are a mood changing drug to say the least. And that right there may be some of the reasons for the suicide rate as it is. Just a guess as I haven't read any studies, this is just from my experience.

 

Dave

Dave & Linda

2011 Bighorn 3670

2000 Ford 7.3 PS diesel white and tan in color Now Fulltiming since May15, 2010

 

Semper Fi Marines!!

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