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5th wheel weights


R&J UK

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I know this has been done before but the weight calculators for working how much a pickup can pull is confusing me enormously.

 

Would a 2012 Ford f350 6.7l diesel superduty 4x4 srw longbed be able to pull this example 5th wheel

 

2012 Heartland Bighorn 3055RL

35 feet long

Dry weight 11000lbs

GVWR 14000lbs

Hitchweight 1994lbs

 

I probably haven't got all the weight numbers but I really need to know if I'm in the right ballpark or way off in terms of what sort of size and weight 5th wheel we should be aiming for . Any help would be a great start.

 

thanks

Roland

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Yes, this truck is sufficient for the 5th wheeler you have in mind. Remember the limiting factor on a SRW truck is the payload rating. Calculate 20% of the trailer's GVWR or 2,800lbs for this trailer. You did not give enough info to determine what the payload rating of your truck is, but all 2012 F-350 SWR will be sufficient for this trailer. The payload ratings range rom 3,630 lbs to 4,940 lbs depending on the exact model you have.

 

Chip

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To be accurate in your decision, compare the hitch weight to the load carrying capacity of the truck and the gross weight of the trailer to the max towing weight of the truck. Keep in mind that going from single wheel to dual wheel does not increase the weight capacities of the truck and in some cases actually lowers it. The reason for dual wheels is for stability when you tow, not to increase weight capacity.

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You can find lots of info on the BH3055RL and F350 combination on the Heartland Owners Forum (heartlandowners.org/forum.php). Other owners can tell you all the pros and cons. Remember most rv forums are used for complaints and questions, seldom for praise. Heartland makes a sturdy, well-designed rig offering top value for the price. We've been living in our Landmark for over three years and it is holding up very well.

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I have to disagree. I believe the specs for the 2012 f350 show an increased payload for the drw model. The chart I am looking at shows up to 4400 for SRW and 6400 for DRW for payload

It can if there is also a different rear axle, suspension, or some other difference, but if the only difference is dual versus single wheels the capacity is typically lowered. It just depends upon what truck you look at. You can't simply say that all dual wheel pickups have a higher capacity than the same model in single wheel version.

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...To be accurate in your decision, compare the hitch weight to the load carrying capacity of the truck and the gross weight of the trailer to the max towing weight of the truck....

You need to use the actual loaded ready to travel weight (full fuel tank, all passengers and other cargo) of the truck subtracted from the GVWR of the truck to determine if you will have enough cargo capacity for the pin weight of the 5th wheel which if you do not have the actual number can be estimated at 20-25% of the trailers GVWR (2800-3500#). Put another way, you need to add the expected pin weight of the trailer to the ready to travel weight of the truck and compare that to the truck's GVWR. If you are close to the truck's GVWR, it would also be good to get a weight of the rear axle (or rear tires) to make sure you are not over the axle or tire weight ratings. You also need to compare the loaded ready to travel weight of the truck plus the GVWR of the trailer to the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) of the truck.

...Keep in mind that going from single wheel to dual wheel does not increase the weight capacities of the truck and in some cases actually lowers it. The reason for dual wheels is for stability when you tow, not to increase weight capacity...

This may have been true at one time and still in theory, but if one looks at what is actually available using Ford as an example: The highest GVWR for a SRW is 11,500# and the highest payload is 4,760#, The lowest GVWR for a DRW is 13,000# and the lowest payload is 5,300#.

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To do this properly, you need a bit more information. For example, is it 4x4 or 2x4? What style cab (regular, supercab, or crewcab)? What is the axle ratio? All these factor into the capability of the truck. The information can be found directly from the manufacturer in this link. You will need to scroll down to page 19 to find the chart you need to refer to.

 

http://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/12FLRVTTgdeMar1.pdf

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...Would a 2012 Ford f350 6.7l diesel superduty 4x4 srw longbed be able to pull this example 5th wheel...

Do you already have this truck? If so use the GVWR, FAWR, RAWR and any other numbers on the door sticker of the truck rather than numbers from a chart (even one from a Ford website). If you have the owners manual, it may give you additional numbers. A Ford dealer can also get you more information about the ratings for your truck with the VIN number.

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We haven't arrived in the USA and have not purchased the vehicles yet.At the moment I am just trying to get my head around what weights an f350 crewcab 4x4 longbed srw 6.7diesel can comfortably pull as we don't want to compromise our trip by being overloaded. There are so many combinations of trucks so we are hoping to buy one with the higher weight capacity and buy a 5th wheel well under the trucks limits , but we are looking at 5th wheels in the same sort of weight category as in my earlier post.

I'm sure with all the great advise on this forum we'll work out what to buy soon

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Here's something I wrote up on the Silverado/Sierra forum a while back to explain how to go about the calculations (don't equate the ratings for my truck with your's - you need to get your's off the door sticker - this is just an example). This should mesh with the good advice from Kirk and others on this forum.

GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating - truck plus all cargo; 10,000# for my truck)
GCWR (gross combined weight rating - truck + trailer and all cargo; 24,500# for my truck)
GAWR FRT (gross axle weight rating, front... not so important here, but 5,200 for my truck)
GAWR RR (gross axle weight rating, rear; 6,200 for my truck)
Tire max load ratings; 6,390 for my SRW load range E rear tires

The next thing is to load the stuff (and people) in your truck that you would normally haul camping (make sure you have a full tank of fuel, hitch mounted or the weight of it known) and head for the nearest CAT scales. Get separate front and rear axle weights with everyone in the truck. Subtract the total weight of the truck from the GCWR and you have your max towing capacity. Subtract the actual rear axle weight from the GAWR RR and you have the amount you have left over for payload/pin weight weight. Make sure nothing exceeds the max load rating for the tires, either. The final numbers for my truck are: actual weight - 7,520; actual rear axle weight - 3,080. That leaves me 3,120 on the rear axle (and 3,310 for the tires). Subtracting the actual weight of the truck from the rated GCWR leaves me 16,980. Since fifth wheels typically run about 20% of the weight on the pin loaded, I'm going to be limited by the pin weight, rather than the gross weight on the whole trailer.

Going through this process will tell you what the frame, suspension, cooling systems and brakes will safely handle - but it doesn't tell you how much fun the rig will be to drive in the mountains/on steeper grades or with a significant head wind. These are all functions of the engine and transmission combination. The LAST thing you want is to have the tail wag the dog or not be able to stop in an emergency situation or going down a steep grade. Also, depending on the state, you can get an expensive ticket for towing over the manufacturer's rated limits for the truck. However, the horror stories I've read about this on the RV forums seemed to mostly be in the Northeast. Better to err on the side of caution. As my first flying instructor used to say (early 70s), "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots - but there are no old, bold pilots...

I hope this helps.

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According to the link Chalkie gives to the 2012 Ford towing data chart the F350, 6.7L CC, SRW, 4x4, automatic trans, with a 3.31 or 3.55 rear end is rated at 15,700 pounds for towing a fifth wheel. I can not find the payload capacity in that chart. Checking the 2014 Ford Super Duty booklet (we have a 2014 F350) you need to know the specific F350s max GVWR which I can not determine. The payload (pin weight) varies from 3,100 pounds to 4,220 in the Ford chart for the SRW. Remember to add all the weight you carry in the truck bed (hitch at ~150 to 200 pounds, plus any extra fuel, tools, etc. and the trailers pin weight). Taking the 14,000 GVWR of the fifth wheel you mentioned the pin weight could be 2.800 pounds (20% GVWR) to 3,500 pounds (25% of GVWR). I see no problems with a 14,000 pound fifth wheel but keep an eye on the payload capacity for a SRW. Bottom line I do not think you would have any problems with the combination truck and fifth wheel you talk about. We tow our 16,900 pound fifth wheel with our 2014 F30 dually which has a payload capacity of 7,080 pounds. Big difference between SRW and DRW. Greg

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It can if there is also a different rear axle, suspension, or some other difference, but if the only difference is dual versus single wheels the capacity is typically lowered. It just depends upon what truck you look at. You can't simply say that all dual wheel pickups have a higher capacity than the same model in single wheel version.

Yes Kirk with the newer DRW trucks you can say across the board that they have a higher compacity than the SRW 1 ton truck. All you have to look at is the rear axle ratings on a DRW and it will be self evident, on our 2013 DRW it has a 13900 GVWR and the F350 SRW isn't close.

 

Denny

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From many many years of experience...whatever weight you calculate, add ~2000 lbs to it.

You, or your wife, or both will add that to it very easily.

Remember that water weighs almost 8 1/2 lbs per gallon, so a ~50 gallon storage tank will weigh over 400 lbs.

Sewerage will be more too, so don't forget that you will also be traveling with that on occasion...

Plus just plain crap...(used affectionately)....will add a lot too.......frying pans, grills, LP gas...and so on...

Good luck,

Cheers,Bob

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I believe that some of the SRW vs. DRW capacity confusion is because some folks are talking about GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) while others are talking about GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating). But the term "capacities" is being used without qualification.

 

DRW truck always have a GVWR that is higher than an equivalent SRW truck. That is why they exist. The rear axle has a much higher weight carrying capacity, and so the total amount of weight that the truck can carry (not tow) is higher.

 

However, the GCWR is largely based on drivetrain (engine/transmission/rear axle), so it is generally the same (or at least similar) between the SRW and DRW trucks with the same powertrain. And since DRW trucks are slightly heavier, and the weight of truck is subtracted from the GCWR to get the "maximum loaded trailer weight", it may result in the DRW having a slightly lower trailer weight rating than the same SRW. I recall that was the case with the 1999 Ford Superduty line that I started with. However, in the subsequent years manufacturers have started to tweak the GCWR between the SRW and DRW lines to eliminate this bothersome issue.

 

For instance, I notice that Ford in the referenced 2015 charts has assigned the DRW trucks a 600 pound higher GCWR (for the same drivetrain) which exactly offsets the additional weight of the DRW truck. So equivalent drivetrains end up with the same maximum loaded trailer weight for SRW and DRW trucks.

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The only purpose of a dually is for increased capacity over a single rear wheel truck.

Actually the dually provides better control and stability say in crosswinds, etc. I say this having owned both single and dually and driven in high crosswinds with both. :) On the other hand the DW hit the rear fender flare backing out of the driveway and after the repair never drove the dually again. :(

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I prefer the Dually configuration especially when hauling a 5th Wheeler or Goose Neck Trailer as a good part of the weight is on the pin.

The Dually gives more stability while driving especially when in a windy area.

Also if you should have a tire problem while in motion, the Dually is safer if that tire problem is on the rear of the towing vehicle as you still have one good tire on that side of the truck, if both are not taken out.

I would not want to haul most of the 5th wheeler RVs I see on the roads with a SRW pickup.

 

But, I drive a MH so what do I know,,, It is a Dually.. ;)

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It makes you wonder where some of the misconceptions come from on towing. There are rally the following ratings that you are to concerned with. If you read the small print and foot notes in the manufacturers towing guides, they have have some to the effect that none of the vehicle ratings should be exceeded.

 

GCWR, gross combined weight rating or the total weight of the truck and trailer fully loaded.

GVWR, gross vehicle weight rating or the most the loaded truck can weigh including passengers, fuel, cargo and pin weight from the trailer.

GAWR, gross axle weight rating or the most weight the axle can carry.

 

Per the manufacturers literature, you do not get to pick and choose one or two of the ratings to meet. It is all three.

 

Pin weights on a loaded 5er can range from 18% to 25% of the trailers GVWR. I use 20% as an estimate.

 

Forget the trailers dry weight and the manufacturers tow ratings on the truck, unless you plan to drive a base model truck, with no passengers and never add any supplies to the trailer. The trailer dry weight will not include any item listed as an option.

 

A DRW truck will have more cargo payload capacity than a SRW truck. Additionally, the DRW truck will be more stable with a large 5er since the load is spread over a wider wheel stance than a SRW truck.

 

If you are within the ratings for a SRW truc when fully loaded, by all means use a SRW truck. If you exceed the SRW ratings, you need to get a DRW truck or look for a smaller trailer.

 

With a DRW truck, you do have to learn to allow for the wide hinny when parking and in drive-throughs. And the mirrors are wider than the fenders anyway. I find that the long wheelbase of the crewcab and long bed is more of a hinderance than the wide hinny.

 

Ken

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Another most important advantage of a dually is the heavy duty braking system over a SRW.Greg

Very true. My dually had quite large rotors and pads on all 4 corners. Could stop very quickly and was a bonus for slowing down the big fiver. Its a good idea to put disc brakes on a fifth wheel trailer.

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